Promoters, Whats Going On ?

[Guest Bearsy]

I heard this !! ..If the original was a big record for you ( new play , or reactivation) and then you sold it on for $$$ , it was ok to cut a carver and still play it ?

I think those that have done it Simon would say its ok but the person that bought it for big bucks wouldnt be happy cos i know i wouldnt, unless it was a condition of the sale of course.

surely if a promoter was playing boots or allow the playing of boots and they were of a good or piss poor sound and quality then it wouldnt take long for the individual to make their own mind up on going to said event if it was a problem for them or any other event the bootleg Dj may appear at, also the way the scene is it dont take long for word to get around and once a bad word is spoken wether true or not that event is then tarred with that brush until proven guilty or not.

Bearsy

[Ian Seaman]

Yep the law states you must own the original/acetate and play the carver purely to preserve the original.

biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard !! what fookin law ?? if you have it play it or f*** off !!!

Ian.

[Simon M]

A promoter can do whatever they want really ,as already mentioned. The solution is to play stuff that aint been booted .. Im not sure about the vinyl carver ruling though , can we have some rare soul refs at the decks now ?

[Simsy]

Yep the law states you must own the original/acetate and play the carver purely to preserve the original.

biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard !! what fookin law ?? if you have it play it or f*** off !!!

Ian.

Calm down Ian, only a joke. They don't have soul police round you way then?

[Steve G]

Yep the law states you must own the original/acetate and play the carver purely to preserve the original.

biggest load of bollocks i have ever heard !! what fookin law ?? if you have it play it or f*** off !!!

Ian.

No, in this circumstance I'd play the vinylcarvers and preserve the deteriorating acetate. Thanks for your thoughts though Ian!

[Steve G]

A promoter can do whatever they want really ,as already mentioned. The solution is to play stuff that aint been booted .. Im not sure about the vinyl carver ruling though , can we have some rare soul refs at the decks now ?

Simon I only use VC's for acetates which deteriorate, and for a couple of v rare things where I've had the sound quality remastered / cleaned up. I am sure we've done all this before?

That's so it doesn't go "snap crackle pop" when you're listening to it My "conversion" came when I noticed my Sam Dees acetate starting to hiss at the beginning - it was a timely reminder to invest £20 in a VC dub before it got any worse. Steve

[Simon M]

Simon I only use VC's for acetates which deteriorate, and for a couple of v rare things where I've had the sound quality remastered / cleaned up. I am sure we've done all this before?

That's so it doesn't go "snap crackle pop" when you're listening to it My "conversion" came when I noticed my Sam Dees acetate starting to hiss at the beginning - it was a timely reminder to invest £20 in a VC dub before it got any worse. Steve

Yeah I do my own remastering to wav files for home listening , why use VC's ? why not CDR's and save money ?

Edited August 29, 2007 by Simon M

[Wilxy]

Nice reply there Wilxy but how can following if you like an unwritten rule within some DJ circles be an outdated one when the ethics are the same? be it then, now or in the future, do you mean that collecting original records for the purpose of DJ'ing has changed or stopped? perhaps not outdated more the case that some people move the goalposts to justify short cuts maybe? using the excuse that they can't afford certain records, well being totally honest and upfront the saying 'If You Can't Stand The Heat Then Get Out Of The Kitchen' springs to mind or don't enter it in the first place if you can't cook yet? again just my opinion.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I think you took my reply out of context Mark, what I should have emphasised is there has been criticism in other threads of "old school ethics" being outdated. I for one am proud of the original as such ethics as it's what makes our scene unique,in my humble opinion but I know it is a view that may be sneered at in some quarters as snobbery. As a collector first and formost, when I do occasionally "play out" I cringe at the fact that other individuals play anything but original vinyl, and there's nowt snobby about me....except when they play a boot of something I was planning to....

[Mark Bicknell]

I think you took my reply out of context Mark, what I should have emphasised is there has been criticism in other threads of "old school ethics" being outdated. I for one am proud of the original as such ethics as it's what makes our scene unique,in my humble opinion but I know it is a view that may be sneered at in some quarters as snobbery. As a collector first and formost, when I do occasionally "play out" I cringe at the fact that other individuals play anything but original vinyl, and there's nowt snobby about me....except when they play a boot of something I was planning to....

Point taken Wilxy mate totally understand your original points now.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Phil Richards]

Sorry can't sleep had a crazy Sunday night and it's buggered my sleep pattern....lol this old chestnut again! firstly I would like to think from my own personal perspective that when I'm kindly asked to DJ the booking is based on merrit, entertainment value, reputation, depth of collection being authentic first generation USA originals whatever the style of tuneage and not because I'm buddies with the promoter although I know most of them, well I would like to think that I'm booked for the above reasons rather than simply knowing them, some venues I will not get asked due to music policy etc. rather than anything personal and I respect that.

How other DJ's conduct themselves and how they apply themselves to the job in hand is up to them, personally I do the best I can within my means and always do it by going down the original only route, I think it's a bit of a kop - out to use the excuse of being a local event so it's ok to play non original records as I've said before the very foundation of this scene and it's music is based on rare records, rare by defernition means hard to find and not often seen, I'm not just talking about the super rare big ticket items here I'm talking right across the bat, be it a five pound or five thousand pound original, for many DJ's the original only format is paramount and yes if it brings a solid reputation, status etc. then so be it, Why? is it some how elitist to apply the original record only rule, over the years I've noticed a whole hotch potch of different DJ record boxes up on various stages both at local and national bigger events again it's up to them how they apply their craft but please don't make excuses or try to deflect or pretend to be totally authentic if some record boxes ain't what they seem.There is also the view that the dance floor don't care what format a tune is played off which may well be the case but would it not be fair to sugget that if a DJ goes down the original only route if nothing else he or she is being true to themselves and the authenticity of the records they play? often it seems to me that the pro non original or part original mix type DJ's are the ones that say it's ok to do what they do and somehow have a real problem with anyone who questions their methods? again it's a personal thing and I guess we have to live with and respect all camps on this debate, but think about it and the only argument or plus here is a good spot is a good spot and is based on quality of music supplied, sure you can play a turkey with a full box of originals as you can with a mixed box but again I feel it's about authenticity here.

All DJ's have the best intentions at heart I'm sure, they play records because they enjoy it and give pleasure to many, I'm sorry but the old saying 'It's What's In The Groove That Counts' does not wash with me but again I do not have the right to tell someone else who chooses the non original or part original record route that they are wrong and should not be DJ'ing, it's up to them but let me tell you in some circles this is not held in very high regard and that's just the way it is, ok we don't all have all of the records, top tunes or otherwise but there are a large number of current DJ's and collector DJ's that take a great deal of time, effort, pride, commitment and money to put a true and authentic box together which for many is an on going practice so this has to be respected too in the same way as others do it.

To suggest because you collect and play authentic records is somehow elitist is a complete nonsense it should be embraced and as I say it is basically the very foundation of the RARE soul scene.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Spot on Mark

[Hold Tight]

Hi Mark,

I dont know, I can think of a few DJ's who've got tons more bookings and became much more successful and well known DJ's after they'd got a sucessful venue under their belt. As you know, Many other promotors book dj's who have a regular local crowd of their own, hoping to draw that crowd to their venue as well as wanting to book the DJ for what their spot would bring.

When it becomes a big pain in the arse to promote, surely it's time to stop?.

Jayne.x.

Hi Jayne,

no its not time to stop. I just think that there are people out there who think its the easy thing to do. I do get a buzz out of people coming to something that has taken time, energy and sheer bloody mindedness (at times) to put on. Plus I am always looking at how to make it better.

On the DJ's I also feel that there are local guys and gals that have a lot to give and that should be allowed to get up on the decks and play out their passion. At the Soul Smugglers its about building the following and the club scene in general. In 12 months its gone to something with 170 plus members - admittedly they don't all turn up at once although there have been some really busy nights. It's also branching out in other directions with other venues being offered for different nights.( just need the time to be able to sort it out now)

The first anniversary night is being pushed now to make it a real night to remember - with an unreleased track that's has been licensed and is being pressed to be given away. Plus a great line up of DJ's from all over the south who have had a hand in the club since it started and with Des Parker making the trip across country to headline. (Or was it Bearsy who was headlining? )

I do understand what you say though, but as they say "It will never be over for me" even if there is now a separate modern room to keep everyone happy across the board.

Mark.

[mischief]

I think one of the problems is.. Promoters who dj give other Promoters who dj a spot, mainly cause they can then get a spot at their do..Nothing to do with what records you have or where you have dj'd in the past.. all a case of you scratch my back and i'll scratch your..

[Hold Tight]

I think those that have done it Simon would say its ok but the person that bought it for big bucks wouldnt be happy cos i know i wouldnt, unless it was a condition of the sale of course.

surely if a promoter was playing boots or allow the playing of boots and they were of a good or piss poor sound and quality then it wouldnt take long for the individual to make their own mind up on going to said event if it was a problem for them or any other event the bootleg Dj may appear at, also the way the scene is it dont take long for word to get around and once a bad word is spoken wether true or not that event is then tarred with that brush until proven guilty or not.

Bearsy

Hi Bearsy,

take your point on board but should a promoter tell a DJ what format to play or take other action? Bit of a devils advocate question really. You know me and my collection and I play originals. ( obvioulsy havent got your wallet though! )

In the main it can be a difficult thing, most of the guys and girls I know who DJ at the club play originals or UK issues. But as you yourself know not all the DJ's we know do so.

PS I am going to try and get up to DKOF as it sits with my thoughts so let me know if you want to go up.

cheers Mark.

[Hold Tight]

I think one of the problems is.. Promoters who dj give other Promoters who dj a spot, mainly cause they can then get a spot at their do..Nothing to do with what records you have or where you have dj'd in the past.. all a case of you scratch my back and i'll scratch your..

I'm still looking at you coming down sometime. Even if you cant scratch my itch baby.

[mischief]

I'm still looking at you coming down sometime. Even if you cant scratch my itch baby.

I'll scratch your back anytime

Love to come down pm me dates and we will sort it

[Citizen P]

First up, I don't class myself as a collector,if I like a record ,and can afford the original, I buy it.

If not, oh well something always turns up.

Second, I ain't a promoter, i just give Ste a hand with the plugging and flyering( )-having a big gob is handy.

Third, when Steve books guest DJ's he does it fully expecting them to play stuff none of us others would have. That's the whole point isn't it?

So, I can tell you that none of the three regulars at Heywood would ever play a pressing, it would be nothing short of an insult to whoever is expected to follow you.

I have to say though that my biggest bugbear at the mo' is those individuals that have a fifty box of all the latest boots, pressings or whatever you call 'em, and think that they are great dj's cos they can fill a dance floor.

Ho Hum.

Tony

[KevH]

I think one of the problems is.. Promoters who dj give other Promoters who dj a spot, mainly cause they can then get a spot at their do..Nothing to do with what records you have or where you have dj'd in the past.. all a case of you scratch my back and i'll scratch your..

maybe there's also a train of thought at the moment of like minded dj's and punters, going to each other's nites cos they like the music?.

If anyone books a dj not knowing what he might play is asking for trouble.

Scratching each other's back???.Or pals enjoying what each other are doing??

[mischief]

maybe there's also a train of thought at the moment of like minded dj's and punters, going to each other's nites cos they like the music?.

If anyone books a dj not knowing what he might play is asking for trouble.

Scratching each other's back???.Or pals enjoying what each other are doing??

Maybe

[Guest ShaneH]

I have to say though that my biggest bugbear at the mo' is those individuals that have a fifty box of all the latest boots, pressings or whatever you call 'em, and think that they are great dj's cos they can fill a dance floor.

Ho Hum.

Tony

[Guest]

To suggest because you collect and play authentic records is somehow elitist is a complete nonsense it should be embraced and as I say it is basically the very foundation of the RARE soul scene.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

so, are we talking about two scenes here 1) northern soul scene 2) rare soul scene?

.... just asking

Edited August 30, 2007 by bootleg

[Citizen P]

I have to say though that my biggest bugbear at the mo' is those individuals that have a fifty box of all the latest boots, pressings or whatever you call 'em, and think that they are great dj's cos they can fill a dance floor.

Ho Hum.

Tony

tony, where does this happen?

shane

Unfortunately in quite a lot of places around here (North Manchester-ish) -NOT I hasten to add the "bigger" events.

In what you might call local nights.

Tony

[Citizen P]

so, are we talking about two scenes here 1) northern soul scene 2) rare soul scene?

.... just asking

Thought the Northern Soul Scene WAS a Rare Soul Scene.

Or is that just me??????

Tony

[Guest Trevski]

I heard this !! ..If the original was a big record for you ( new play , or reactivation) and then you sold it on for $$ , it was ok to cut a carver and still play it ?

Not acceptable! Carvers of originals/acetates that you STILL own, to preserve the orig, fine. But once you sell it, you lose the right to play ther carvers, as it's then no better than someone playing a boot, IMHO.

[Md Records]

Here's an odd situation - I was given ownership rights to a load of stuff by a producer's Son in the U.S. after doing some work with his Father, who for some error of judgement spoke highly of me, am I allowed to play vinyl carvers of the released stuff - I wouldn't do it, for fear of arrest by the Soul Stasi who obviously feel they "own" the scene, but am I above the "law" on this occasion.

Des Parker

[Steve G]

I have to say though that my biggest bugbear at the mo' is those individuals that have a fifty box of all the latest boots, pressings or whatever you call 'em, and think that they are great dj's cos they can fill a dance floor.

Ho Hum.

Tony

tony, where does this happen?

shane

Hi Shane,

I can tell you that it certainly does not happen in our local evening do's in Herts and Beds, where Djs such as Pete Burton, Pete Hullat, Taffy, Toby, Jo Wallace, R&BMan, Yogi, Andy Kempster, and the Hitchin boys, Big O, Dr Pickles, Hammy etc etc. play original vinyl. This might mean that we don't get to play too much of the "Wigan Top 50", but it makes us all dig a little bit deeper for something a bit different.

Edited August 30, 2007 by Steve G

[Simon M]

Not acceptable! Carvers of originals/acetates that you STILL own, to preserve the orig, fine. But once you sell it, you lose the right to play ther carvers, as it's then no better than someone playing a boot, IMHO.

I even play original mp3's with watermarks

[Guest Trevski]

Here's an odd situation - I was given ownership rights to a load of stuff by a producer's Son in the U.S. after doing some work with his Father, who for some error of judgement spoke highly of me, am I allowed to play vinyl carvers of the released stuff - I wouldn't do it, for fear of arrest by the Soul Stasi who obviously feel they "own" the scene, but am I above the "law" on this occasion.

Des Parker

No problem with that Des. As for 'soul police' etc 'owning' the scene, don't we ALL own the scene, as it's an ongoing creation, made by us, the people on it? Therefore, with regard to 'soul police' I believe people with a passion, regard and genuine love of the scene and the music, trying to protect and preserve what we all hold dear, are no bad thing!

[Guest Trevski]

Can we have a name of the said event and promoter please..

Maybe they should have the same test as we did to see if someone was a witch..

Trevski can get the ducking stool ready..Why bother with a real Robert Tanner,i am sure the boots sound just as good ..

Quite right Stevie! I know this goes round and round and round...... But, Simple example of why I don't play boots, and why I don't agree with it. True, I cound have bought a hundred or more boots instead of R Tanner, but I could never get behind a deck and play 'em. Why? on Sunday I played Monique, you were dancing, and at the end leaned over the deck and shook my hand. That made the hunt for it, and the money paid all worthwhile, and made my day. If it had been a boot, I'd have felt a right fraud,and wouldn't have been able to look you in the eye! THAT'S the difference between boots and OVO for me!( By the way, thanks chum!) Any promoters wanting a OVO DJ, not very good, but tries hard, my calendar's lookin a bit blank at the mo'.....  

Edited August 30, 2007 by Trevski

[Md Records]

My comments about the "Soul Police" were a little tongue in cheek, Trevski, and I'm certainly not questioning anyones passion, I just feel that this passion is sometimes a little misplaced. Here's a little illustration of what makes me bemused by what I often see on this slightly illogical scene.

Flanny's rightly getting praise on the Burnley thread for having the b******s to play the "Rufus Lumley" I turned a couple of these up about 3/4 Years ago, one I bought for $5 in Pennsylvania and one that I bought in Minneapolis (in a "local records" section) for $10. I sold Johnny Beggs one, who I feel was the first person to play this out, and one I chucked in the sales box for £30 (think of a number & add a nought job). Anyhow, as I'm out and about, I'll say to some of the great and good "you should have a look in there, there's some nice stuff cheap" anyhow I often get the following replies

- I DON'T BUY CHEAP RECORDS

- I ONLY BUY RARE RECORDS

The Irony of this tale is that since Friday, I've been asked for this disc, by members of the elite corps who are quite happy to buy the tune now someone else has had the bottle to play it, and also now it's value has gone up tenfold!!!!!!!!!

Trying to keep the topic on track, I couldn't care less about the issue of D.J.'s playing "boots" what I find more worrying is hearing the likes of Joanne Courcey Four times in a night (like I did recently) for F*** sakes find something New and exciting to play.

Des Parker

[Simon M]

Hi Des

It all goes back to Rod Shards , aka modersoulsucks, post again !

Simon

[Md Records]

Just read back through Simon, I fully agree that Rod's was the most pertinant point on the thread!!

Des Parker

[Ted Massey]

Not acceptable! Carvers of originals/acetates that you STILL own, to preserve the orig, fine. But once you sell it, you lose the right to play ther carvers, as it's then no better than someone playing a boot, IMHO.

I was forced to sell Sam my Joseph webster (if you have ever had a record Sam wants you will know what i mean) and he did a vinyl cavers job for me as part of the deal. I play it when asked why not bugger it and i cant wait till we are on the same bill cause if im on before him i will play it. Oh and by the way until Sam heard Butch play it not long before he got it of me he had never even known the record.

Edited August 30, 2007 by Tedsoul

[Simon M]

I was forced to sell Sam my Joseph webster (if you have ever had a record Sam wants you will know what i mean) and he did a vinyl cavers job for me as part of the deal. I play it when asked why not bugger it and i cant wait till we are on the same bill cause if im on before him i will play it. Oh and by the way until Sam heard Butch play it not long before he got it of me he had never even known the record.

Was Joseph Webster the one 70's track that Guy H , played ?

[Ged Parker]

My comments about the "Soul Police" were a little tongue in cheek, Trevski, and I'm certainly not questioning anyones passion, I just feel that this passion is sometimes a little misplaced. Here's a little illustration of what makes me bemused by what I often see on this slightly illogical scene.

Flanny's rightly getting praise on the Burnley thread for having the b******s to play the "Rufus Lumley" I turned a couple of these up about 3/4 Years ago, one I bought for $5 in Pennsylvania and one that I bought in Minneapolis (in a "local records" section) for $10. I sold Johnny Beggs one, who I feel was the first person to play this out, and one I chucked in the sales box for £30 (think of a number & add a nought job). Anyhow, as I'm out and about, I'll say to some of the great and good "you should have a look in there, there's some nice stuff cheap" anyhow I often get the following replies

- I DON'T BUY CHEAP RECORDS

- I ONLY BUY RARE RECORDS

The Irony of this tale is that since Friday, I've been asked for this disc, by members of the elite corps who are quite happy to buy the tune now someone else has had the bottle to play it, and also now it's value has gone up tenfold!!!!!!!!!

Trying to keep the topic on track, I couldn't care less about the issue of D.J.'s playing "boots" what I find more worrying is hearing the likes of Joanne Courcey Four times in a night (like I did recently) for F*** sakes find something New and exciting to play.

Des Parker

You talk a lot of sense for a Parker Des

I know I had a DJ/Promotor I know and respect come up and ask me about the Ravenettes only to lose interest when I told him it was only worth about £30 and I found that a little sad.

As for the two scenes question without a doubt there are two scenes and has been for a long time. On one of the scenes things like boots being played matter on the the other it doesn't.

Can a promotor play boots coause they can its their event and their money at risk and their punters to please.

Each DJ will decide which scene he want to get bookings on and act acordingly IMO. If you want to decide who promotors can and can't book be a promotor. If you want to see more 'serious' DJ's get more spots support the nights that focus on this. All to many serious soul events with great DJ's with great collections (Or if I dare use the awful term 'hotboxes') are half empty.

Supply and demand we get the scene we deserve, we are willing to support and back.

[Guest dundeedavie]

I think one of the problems is.. Promoters who dj give other Promoters who dj a spot, mainly cause they can then get a spot at their do..Nothing to do with what records you have or where you have dj'd in the past.. all a case of you scratch my back and i'll scratch your..

i'm a promoter who dj's but i'm not prepared to be tarred with this brush .... we(basics) have never booked a single dj because of back-scratching and we never will and in fact have turned down many times people who have said " you'll have to come down here to play and we can do the return fixture "

so not all Dj/Promoters are back scratchers

[Guest Phil Richards]

Here's an odd situation - I was given ownership rights to a load of stuff by a producer's Son in the U.S. after doing some work with his Father, who for some error of judgement spoke highly of me, am I allowed to play vinyl carvers of the released stuff - I wouldn't do it, for fear of arrest by the Soul Stasi who obviously feel they "own" the scene, but am I above the "law" on this occasion.

Des Parker

And the acetates that came from him as well Des,and the one me and Ken had off you

[Simon M]

I must admit you hardly ever get a Stafford type lineup these days .. was it Dave Withers who said this in his interview ??

[Md Records]

Phil

Unfortunately the acetate I sold you/Ken came from a completely unrelated source

Des

[Guest Phil Richards]

i'm a promoter who dj's but i'm not prepared to be tarred with this brush .... we(basics) have never booked a single dj because of back-scratching and we never will and in fact have turned down many times people who have said " you'll have to come down here to play and we can do the return fixture "

so not all Dj/Promoters are back scratchers

Same here we only book dj's that can do a job for us and are booked for the records thay have

[Guest Phil Richards]

My comments about the "Soul Police" were a little tongue in cheek, Trevski, and I'm certainly not questioning anyones passion, I just feel that this passion is sometimes a little misplaced. Here's a little illustration of what makes me bemused by what I often see on this slightly illogical scene.

Flanny's rightly getting praise on the Burnley thread for having the b******s to play the "Rufus Lumley" I turned a couple of these up about 3/4 Years ago, one I bought for $5 in Pennsylvania and one that I bought in Minneapolis (in a "local records" section) for $10. I sold Johnny Beggs one, who I feel was the first person to play this out, and one I chucked in the sales box for £30 (think of a number & add a nought job). Anyhow, as I'm out and about, I'll say to some of the great and good "you should have a look in there, there's some nice stuff cheap" anyhow I often get the following replies

- I DON'T BUY CHEAP RECORDS

- I ONLY BUY RARE RECORDS

The Irony of this tale is that since Friday, I've been asked for this disc, by members of the elite corps who are quite happy to buy the tune now someone else has had the bottle to play it, and also now it's value has gone up tenfold!!!!!!!!!

Trying to keep the topic on track, I couldn't care less about the issue of D.J.'s playing "boots" what I find more worrying is hearing the likes of Joanne Courcey Four times in a night (like I did recently) for F*** sakes find something New and exciting to play.

Des Parker

Well i buy cheap records and play them at wolverhampton allnighter if there good there good who cares if thay only cost a £10 or £20 pounds so thanks Des

[Mark Bicknell]

When I first got into the DJ thing way back around 1981/82 you had to earn your stripes basically, there was no easy route, you got the bookings based on merrit, reputation, records you had in your collection, authentic ones that is, no short cuts, no brown nosing, no you DJ at my gig and I'll DJ at yours, it was far harder to break into DJ'ing back then, yes it was about starting off at local events and moving up the ladder to the bigger gigs but it took time, dedication and hard work.

It seems to me that some standards and DJ ethics have slipped a little on today's scene, yes it's about nice original records as anything else is second or third division sorry but it's true, the very nature of this scene as I have said before is the collecting, playing and dancing to obscure, rare, hard to find American Soul records, bootlegs are an off shoot of X,Y,Z DJ's making the original record popular in the first place, originally bootlegs were to supply a demand wrongly or rightly to the masses again made popular by the DJ's who discovered them or were supplied them in the first place, I don't give a flying fig if some people say it's ok to play anything less than original records, perhaps if some of the people who run these gigs don't have the records then they should firstly perhaps consider not DJ'ing or employ the DJ's who do have the records then perhaps we will start to get back to being a rare soul scene rather than this current highbread or almost split two or three scenes going on at the present time, I don't envy nor am I jealous of any DJ's who have a shit hot collection and ability to DJ and DJ well I simply respect them.

Are some people suggesting the likes of Mick H, Des Parker, Andy Dyson, Ged Parker, Paul Sadot, Jumping Joan, Steve Thomas, Karl Heard, James Trouble, Soul Sam, Butch, Dave Rimmer, Roger Banks, John Parker, John Poole, Rob Wigley, The Pincher Twins, Ian Cunliffe, Cliff Camfield, Mace, Rod Shard, Cliff Steel, Ady Pountain, Flanny, Steve Plumb, Barry Maleedy, Ady Potts, Mick Smith, Rob Thomas, Ted Massey, Rich Buckley, Mark Speakman, Brett Franklin, Steve Manion, Tim Brown, Kev Murphy, Dave Greet, Len Dopson, John Weston, Hammy, Molly, Ginger Taylor, Steve C, Jo Wallace, George Hunt, Steve G, Tony Parker, Dave Thorley, Carl Willingham, Joe Dutton, Trevski, Phil Richards, Cookie, Paul Donnelly, Carl Fortnum, myself etc. etc. (sorry if I've missed anyone off this list but I'm simply trying to make a point here) and numerous others who strive to collect and play authentic records are somehow in the wrong here? respect to us all I say, no easy route, no short cuts just a passion and dedication to do it the best way we know how.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Dave Rimmer]

When I first got into the DJ thing way back around 1981/82 you had to earn your stripes basically, there was no easy route, you got the bookings based on merrit, reputation, records you had in your collection, authentic ones that is, no short cuts, no brown nosing, no you DJ at my gig and I'll DJ at yours, it was far harder to break into DJ'ing back then, yes it was about starting off at local events and moving up the ladder to the bigger gigs but it took time, dedication and hard work.

It seems to me that some standards and DJ ethics have slipped a little on today's scene, yes it's about nice original records as anything else is second or third division sorry but it's true, the very nature of this scene as I have said before is the collecting, playing and dancing to obscure, rare, hard to find American Soul records, bootlegs are an off shoot of X,Y,Z DJ's making the original record popular in the first place, originally bootlegs were to supply a demand wrongly or rightly to the masses again made popular by the DJ's who discovered them or were supplied them in the first place, I don't give a flying fig if some people say it's ok to play anything less than original records, perhaps if some of the people who run these gigs don't have the records then they should firstly perhaps consider not DJ'ing or employ the DJ's who do have the records then perhaps we will start to get back to being a rare soul scene rather than this current highbread or almost split two or three scenes going on at the present time, I don't envy nor am I jealous of any DJ's who have a shit hot collection and ability to DJ and DJ well I simply respect them.

Are some people suggesting the likes of Mick H, Des Parker, Andy Dyson, Ged Parker, Paul Sadot, Jumping Joan, Steve Thomas, Karl Heard, James Trouble, Soul Sam, Butch, Dave Rimmer, Roger Banks, John Parker, John Poole, Rob Wigley, The Pincher Twins, Ian Cunliffe, Cliff Camfield, Mace, Rod Shard, Cliff Steel, Ady Pountain, Flanny, Steve Plumb, Barry Maleedy, Ady Potts, Mick Smith, Rob Thomas, Ted Massey, Rich Buckley, Mark Speakman, Brett Franklin, Steve Manion, Tim Brown, Kev Murphy, Dave Greet, Len Dopson, John Weston, Hammy, Molly, Ginger Taylor, Steve C, Jo Wallace, George Hunt, Steve G, Tony Parker, Dave Thorley, Carl Willingham, Joe Dutton, Trevski, Phil Richards, Cookie, Paul Donnelly, Carl Fortnum, myself etc. etc. (sorry if I've missed anyone off this list but I'm simply trying to make a point here) and numerous others who strive to collect and play authentic records are somehow in the wrong here? respect to us all I say, no easy route, no short cuts just a passion and dedication to do it the best way we know how.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Says it all really Mark. The only other thing I'd add of significance to that list is that most of those names are DJs, not promoters. So they get bookings on the strength of their spot, not on the promise of a return booking by another promoter.

But we have both been around long enough to know that we do it the way that sits right with our conscience, and don't worry about anyone else.

[Guest andrew bin]

at the S.T.O.S doo(shoping trolley of soul, casino revival) on the the weekend did any of the dj's play boots outside Boots

[Simon M]

Wheres Rod Shard deejaying Mark ? ......... would like to hear a spot by him !!

Edited August 30, 2007 by Simon M

[Mark Bicknell]

Wheres Rod Shard deejaying Mark ? ......... would like to hear a spot by him !!

Rod does the odd spot here and there but not as often as he should.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[good angel]

Well i buy cheap records and play them at wolverhampton allnighter if there good there good who cares if thay only cost a £10 or £20 pounds so thanks Des

Phil,

Your totally right,go with your conviction and remember every record was a cheap throw away at one time,how many sounds have been found in junk shops or warehouses not wanted,till they get played a few times,then take off.

Kev

[Guest dundeedavie]

Says it all really Mark. The only other thing I'd add of significance to that list is that most of those names are DJs, not promoters. So they get bookings on the strength of their spot, not on the promise of a return booking by another promoter.

the way i see it .... none of the good do's work by this ethic , the ones that do are cheating their punters and anyone who accepts gigs on this premise is kidding themselves that they are good

[Guest Phil Richards]

Phil,

Your totally right,go with your conviction and remember every record was a cheap throw away at one time,how many sounds have been found in junk shops or warehouses not wanted,till they get played a few times,then take off.

Kev

I have big money tunes but love to find the £10 & £20 records out that i think yes this will go down well as you say they where all cheap at one time.

No need to play boots anyway lot's of quality 45's out there to find and play that don't cost a lot

[Guest Bearsy]

Hi Bearsy,

take your point on board but should a promoter tell a DJ what format to play or take other action? Bit of a devils advocate question really. You know me and my collection and I play originals. ( obvioulsy havent got your wallet though! )

In the main it can be a difficult thing, most of the guys and girls I know who DJ at the club play originals or UK issues. But as you yourself know not all the DJ's we know do so.

PS I am going to try and get up to DKOF as it sits with my thoughts so let me know if you want to go up.

cheers Mark.

No a promoter should not tell a dj what format to play on or what to play in my opinion but then again im not a promoter, but in my honest opinion Mark a promoter should be thinking of what DJs he wants at his venue and if the promoter chooses a dj that plays boots CDs etc then that is his choice and the paying punter will make their own mind up and choose wether to come back or not, if a promoter only hires DJs that play original vynil only there will never be this situation as those that dont care wont care but those that do care then wont care cos they know that the DJs on at the event only play original vynil, if i was a promoter i would only want DJs that play on original vynil only but that would be my choice and something i believe is the best way to put an event on in my opinion,

cheeky git you are, i wouldnt mind being a £ behind you in the bank you high flying legal eagle you

Mark i know you and i know you are a promoter that cares and try to put the best night on possible all the time and that is more important to you than playing a set if need be and that is why your events will only get better and better, its not about a profit its about putting on a great night first for everyone coming to an event and if it does work the DJs hopefully get looked after and the promoter makes a few quid for all their hard work and the paying punters go home bloody happy until next time.

Bearsy

[Pauldonnelly]

Hi Shane,

I can tell you that it certainly does not happen in our local evening do's in Herts and Beds, where Djs such as Pete Burton, Pete Hullat, Taffy, Toby, Jo Wallace, R&BMan, Yogi, Andy Kempster, and the Hitchin boys, Big O, Dr Pickles, Hammy etc etc. play original vinyl. This might mean that we don't get to play too much of the "Wigan Top 50", but it makes us all dig a little bit deeper for something a bit different.

spot on mate..and I don't even know ya.

My brother wrote this in april 07 re Peterborough DKOF, still rings a bell with me.

So what is DKOF all about, and why is it any different to any other soul music night in peterborough? Thats a good question and one which deserves an honest answer, well for starters this night is not going to be the biggest soul night in the area, we don't want it to be..... we want to keep it small and friendly with a relaxed, welcoming atmosphere. We're not gonna be playing classic northern soul , there are several clubs in the city who do that quite succesfully already ..... by the same token that doesn't mean to say we aren't going to be playing any northern soul

We're not gonna judge the success of our night by how full the dance floor is, if you want to dance you dance, if you want to just sit back and listen , then just listen.....jocks will be given a free reign to play what they like....however it is not our intention to batter you to death with soul obscurities, we simply want to champion the underplayed, the forgotten and the ignored This is a night for listening to and enjoying black american music ... nothing more nothing less, no pretence, no bullshit, just music ....... simple isn't it.

DKOF april 2007

-----------------------------

GOT IT SUSSED ent we