What Would You Do In These Circumstances?

[macca]

I've just sold, via Ebay, an EX condition Doug Banks on Argo to a guy in Germany for 75 quid.

He's just emailed me to tell me there are three big scratches on it & I know for a fact there aren't.

The tone of his missive was slightly stroppy 'are you trying to cheat me' etc;

I replied offering to refund his money including his costs in returning it to me.

Am I gonna get my record back? Is it going to be dog-fight between me & Hans

with me ending up with negative feedback after 6 years of spotlessly clean & enjoyable Ebay selling?

I'm fearing the worst for some reason.

Mac.

p.s. I bought it as EX off a guy on here & I'm scrupulously careful with my records. Why do I smell a rat?

Edited August 22, 2007 by macca

[Harrogatesoul]

Its one of them isnt it Macca? You've offered the guy his money back - So.. When you recieve the 45 from him (and sent recorded etc) then refund the f*****. I've had a few people on ebay saying such things and all I've said is ' Send it back and I'll refund you' No one evwer has.

Rich

[Guest DELORENZO]

You have done the right thing, I know exactly what you mean (feedback spotless also), just grit your teeth, and wait for the record to be returned, refund, and hope the bloke isn't a complete A hole

Edited August 22, 2007 by DELORENZO

[Peter99]

Have him!

[Guest DELORENZO]

And don't get inticed into violence, when they beat us tonight

[Dean]

I think there's only so much you can do. Honourable people bother about these things, the others don't. Did you include a photo on ebay that you could refer to? I think for items expecting £50 and above it's worth a picture or scan of more than the label. May be worth asking if the packaging is damaged at all, under the excuse of following it up with postal service, or more directly ask if he's opened it with a pair of garden shears!

Hope it works out

[Pete S]

He is trying to get you to admit and and hoping you will offer him a chunk of money back as compensation. I've had loads of them try this on.

[Gene-r]

He is trying to get you to admit and and hoping you will offer him a chunk of money back as compensation. I've had loads of them try this on.

Had a couple of freeloaders try that on me over the years too - one was in this country! And it's true - when I told them I'd refund them on receipt back of the record, do you think any tosser bothered to return them?

Best thing to do - offer a refund on return of the package but, at the same time, block them from bidding on your future auctions by using Ebay's blocked bidder list. And if he leaves you a neg, then retaliate. Also say in your negative feedback that he is now blocked - that really hurts them.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Gene-R

[Simsy]

three big scratches on it

If you're careful with your records then he must have scratched it. Assuming you packaged it properly which I'm sure you did. Why should you have it back in worse condition than you sold it? What's it going to be worth then?

Tough it out I say. Feedback works both ways. Call his bluff.

And good luck!

[Guest Pete Griffin]

The cnut may have bought it to swap it with his shit condition one, then he get a ex 45 and his money back. Make sure its your 45 that you get back mate.

There are some evil people out there....

Good look

[macca]

I ain't going for that. I'd rather have the record back, didn't want to sell the bugger in the first place!

I included a scan, but of the record was in a white sleeve. I don't think one can discern any possible

scratches with the kind photos that one uploads to ebay, unless it's 300ppi, jobbie. won't get fooled again though. are england playing our german cousins tonight then? that's my alter ego, speaking cos my surname is hardly english, to be sure...

best,

mac.

p.s. hadn't thought of the 'it's not my 45' scenario. that's really got me down.

Edited August 22, 2007 by macca

[macca]

should be easy to identify with that buckin' great drill hole.

[Dave Rimmer]

I think there's only so much you can do. Honourable people bother about these things, the others don't. Did you include a photo on ebay that you could refer to? I think for items expecting £50 and above it's worth a picture or scan of more than the label.

In some cases that makes no difference. I sold a record to a member on here. I scanned the label, put a full sound clip taken from the record with it as well. Graded it as VG++. They have asked for their money back because they claim it's VG-, and jumps on their equipment. I pointed out that it's their equipment at fault then because it didn't jump when I recorded it to put the sound clip on SS ! I've offered them a refund, but they will never, ever get to buy another record off me.

[Pauldonnelly]

whats his name Macca? had probs with a german last year.

Pm me his address we have Boro on Deutchland who are more than happy to enforce the Carpenters Arm Kiss

[Cover-up]

It sounds more than likely that he's trying to switch his shagged copy for your EX and get a refund. You should politely tell them that if they are returning the 45, you'll be able to check if it's the same record you sold them from the scan. Then they may think twice, since they'll obviously get caught out.

Lucky it has that huge drill hole. Makes you wonder how many records you could identify as your own from a line-up...

[boba]

In some cases that makes no difference. I sold a record to a member on here. I scanned the label, put a full sound clip taken from the record with it as well. Graded it as VG++. They have asked for their money back because they claim it's VG-, and jumps on their equipment. I pointed out that it's their equipment at fault then because it didn't jump when I recorded it to put the sound clip on SS ! I've offered them a refund, but they will never, ever get to buy another record off me.

I can make most any record play on some crap turntable with 3 grams, that doesn't make it the fault of the equipment when it jumps! If there is some physical defect in the record -- a warp or a scratch -- that your equipment ignores, it still doesn't mean that it's not a problem with the record when it skips somewhere else.

The fact is people have different grading standards. If the person sends it back to you and it comes back as you sent it, the person is OBVIOUSLY being honest. They didn't intentionally buy it just to waste their own time and end up with nothing more than they started with. Obviously they could be trying to rip you off too. But you don't know that until you do or don't get the record back. I don't know you or your grading so I can't comment, but most records I buy from people off this site are WAY overgraded (although there are some people here I know who are more conservative graders than me). I am definitely not the more conservative grader either. Thanks.

[macca]

true. I used to scratch my initials AJM in the deadwax. there's a few of them out there.

[macca]

I can make most any record play on some crap turntable with 3 grams, that doesn't make it the fault of the equipment when it jumps! If there is some physical defect in the record -- a warp or a scratch -- that your equipment ignores, it still doesn't mean that it's not a problem with the record when it skips somewhere else.

The fact is people have different grading standards. If the person sends it back to you and it comes back as you sent it, the person is OBVIOUSLY being honest. They didn't intentionally buy it just to waste their own time and end up with nothing more than they started with. Obviously they could be trying to rip you off too. But you don't know that until you do or don't get the record back. I don't know you or your grading so I can't comment, but most records I buy from people off this site are WAY overgraded (although there are some people here I know who are more conservative graders than me). I am definitely not the more conservative grader either. Thanks.

There'll always be people who take the piss. I bought the record as EX, which is 'used but not abused' in my book, you know, minor scuffs, but no ticks or pops or cue in burn etc; This record plays perfecty, very loud & very clear, just like my conscience right now.

I'll be delighted to refund him, if & when I get my record back, & in the same condition I sent it in.

I'm a good all-round egg, people have even told me so...

M

Edited August 22, 2007 by macca

[Dave Rimmer]

I can make most any record play on some crap turntable with 3 grams, that doesn't make it the fault of the equipment when it jumps!

It was played on a 3 month old turntable with 1.5 grams on the weight, and a 10 year old turntable with 1.5 grams on the weight. So when I need your advice I'll ask for it. OK

[Steve G]

I'm a good all-round egg, people have even told me so...

M

Yes you are so stick to your guns Macca....

[boba]

It was played on a 3 month old turntable with 1.5 grams on the weight, and a 10 year old turntable with 1.5 grams on the weight. So when I need your advice I'll ask for it. OK

Sorry, next time I will ask you in advance whether it is acceptable to respond to your comment on a public thread. Maybe I should in the future send you a certified letter asking for permission to respond to a ridiculous comment? Please advise. Thanks.

[Pete S]

There'll always be people who take the piss. I bought the record as EX, which is 'used but not abused' in my book, you know, minor scuffs, but no ticks or pops or cue in burn etc;

Thats VG+ to me!

[Dave Rimmer]

Sorry, next time I will ask you in advance whether it is acceptable to respond to your comment on a public thread. Maybe I should in the future send you a certified letter asking for permission to respond to a ridiculous comment? Please advise. Thanks.

As you obviously have difficulty understanding when your input is not required, yes, a letter asking permission might be appropriate. However, you are the one who makes reference to being certified, not me.

[Steve G]

Hey guys why so much testosterone going on about this - anyone would think we were talking Oldies versus newies or something.....

[Mace]

If you plan on selling futher records on ebay, and they have no distinguishable marks on label or vinyl to identify if returned, then use a pin or needle to make a tiny prick mark on flipside label, in the centre of a tiny letter on label text such as 'o' or in centre of number such as '6' etc.and make a note of it before sending off.

If someone is gonna try ripping you off by swapping with crappier copy, they can scratch in identical initials etc on deadwax of shitty copy...they can't imitate what they don't know about

Mace.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Mace

[macca]

that's what I was going to say steve. we do get tetchy on here at times, don't we?

in spain they say 'no es lo que dices, es como lo dices'. it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

I will stick to my guns & thanks for your words of support matey.

M

[macca]

Thats VG+ to me!

JM says:

EX Excellent, small marks not audible.

VG Scratches, marks & audible wear.

I still think mine falls into the first category pete. minor scuffs, but no audible wear.

in fact when I played DB after another record, I used to have to turn

down the volume a bit, it was that loud. I'm confused.

[boba]

As you obviously have difficulty understanding when your input is not required, yes, a letter asking permission might be appropriate. However, you are the one who makes reference to being certified, not me.

I don't think I'm the person with the reading comprehension problem. You seem to think I'm giving you advice or something. You made a comment on a public forum about how if something plays on your turnable, it's obviously an equipment problem with the buyer. That is a ridiculous comment (especially not knowing at the time what your turntable is, although I'm not sure that even makes a difference). I don't know why you seem to think responding to your ridiculous, incorrect public statement has anything to do with offering you some sort of advice on your situation.

ps. sorry I again forgot to ask for your permission to respond to your post. Next time I will only respond to posts where the poster says, "Bob, please give me advice".

[Souljazera]

medication time gents!!

what next weight of stanton cartridges :D

[macca]

love the medication time gents bit. this could be one flew over the cuckoo's nest. spot jack nicholson!!

[Guest Bearsy]

In some cases that makes no difference. I sold a record to a member on here. I scanned the label, put a full sound clip taken from the record with it as well. Graded it as VG++. They have asked for their money back because they claim it's VG-, and jumps on their equipment. I pointed out that it's their equipment at fault then because it didn't jump when I recorded it to put the sound clip on SS ! I've offered them a refund, but they will never, ever get to buy another record off me.

Dave i am very suprised that you think im trying to pull a fast one with you, i did explain in my pm to you what the problem was,

I will be sending it back to you tomorrow now im back from a few days away and like i said in my pm that if you think its still vg++ and has no creases in it and dont jump at all then feel free to send it back to me and i will cover your postage on that too so you dont lose out.

Bearsy

[Pete S]

JM says:

Oh right, so thats the law is it

an EX should be a mint record thats been played a couple of times really

[Modernsoulsucks]

I gotta agree with Boba that grading 45s correctly is a thing of the past on here and on Ebay. $ signs cloud the vision and you can end up with anything.

Without wishing to get involved in the Dave and Bearsy little problem, all I can say is there is a world of difference between VG++ [which is USA equivalent of UK Excellent and should be not that far from Mint apart from odd scuffs or light mark or two] and VG- which is basically fcuked!!

As a seller for 12 years I stood behind whatever I sold and to be honest never had a problem really.

ROD

[Simon M]

VG++ is a real headache imo .. Over the last 4 years Ive had near perfect , VG++, from sweetsoul28 to almost feckd from other users ! . I sometimes wish it could all go back to the old days when you could smell the vinyl before buying

[macca]

Oh right, so thats the law is it

an EX should be a mint record thats been played a couple of times really

Wouldn't that be EX+

Not suggesting that JM is the law, just couldn't be arsed to look at Pat Brady or anybody else that sells online. I was referring to JM merely as a guide.

Macca.

[Martint]

sorry to hear about your problems Macca but I thought I'd throw this tale in as an example of some GOOD people you meet on ebay.

I recently sold some records on ebay and I managed to send two to the wrong people through sheer stupidity on my part. One cost £50 and the other over £200. The guy expecting the £200+ contacted me understandably upset at getting a totally different record and, I suspect, he thought I might be trying to pull a fast one. I was then bricking it in case the other buyer, who was in Europe, might simply decide to ignore my emails etc. as I hadn't dealt with him before and had no idea whether or not he would just keep the record which would have left me £200+ down with little practical recourse.

Fortunately for me, both buyers were 100% honest, helpful and understanding. I paid them both the postage money to send the records on to the other buyer, both did so and the matter is now settled and they are both now very happy with their purchases. I can't help thinkig it could have so easily gone very wrong (and I'll be super careful in future!) but it did restore my faith in humanity, or at least the soul scene section of it

[macca]

faith restoring stuff martin. I have to say this incident is my first since I joined ebay in 2001. we'll see how it develops.

[Souljazera]

love the medication time gents bit. this could be one flew over the cuckoo's nest. spot jack nicholson!!

so long as they dont break the windows!!

now then i 'll just weigh my stanton!!

[Dave Rimmer]

now then i 'll just weigh my stanton!!

Well if you're American it appears that you set it at 3 grams then you can sell any old shit to the UK. Oh no, perhaps I got it wrong, that's what he implied I was doing.

There again, I'd never thought of that, but it's obviously what he does.

[Greg Belson]

Am I gonna get my record back? Why do I smell a rat?

And that could be the whole point. Make sure it's your record you get back. I've heard cases where buyers have minted up and tried to return their filler copy to the minty seller. Very underhand......the buyer gets to keep the minter, and gets their cash refunded whilst the seller gets an inferior copy returned which he's obviously unlikely to resell at the original price.

And it's difficult to do a thing about it without some sort of original photgraphic proof.

[macca]

the plot thickens. I've just received two scans of the record from him, but not complete scans, surprise, surprise.

the label looks too glossy to be my record, which has more of a matt finish, difficult to tell from my low-res scan I know, but I just don't remember it being that glossy.

I can see some distinguishing ringwear marks on mine that are not on his scan.

what should I do? tell him, ever so diplomatically, to send me a full scan so we can both be sure?

I'm sure the full scan will resolve any lingering doubts.

[pikeys dog]

Tell him to return your record, for a full refund.

Don't let him bully you into a partial refund.

If you get a different copy back - scan it and send a copy of your auction page and the scan to eBay and submit a complaint against him.

Make sure you have no money in your Paypal account, so that he can't be refunded by Paypal (they are fcukers for siding with the buyer without fully checking with the seller).

If all else fails put his ID up on here so everyone else can block him as a buyer.

[Pete S]

the plot thickens. I've just received two scans of the record from him, but not complete scans, surprise, surprise.

the label looks too glossy to be my record, which has more of a matt finish, difficult to tell from my low-res scan I know, but I just don't remember it being that glossy.

I can see some distinguishing ringwear marks on mine that are not on his scan.

what should I do? tell him, ever so diplomatically, to send me a full scan so we can both be sure?

I'm sure the full scan will resolve any lingering doubts.

Mac it's about time you told this guy to either send back the record or shut up, tell him you want to see a full scan not a partial one and if the record he returns to you is not the one you sent him, you will press charges against him for fraud

[macca]

right. just told him to send me a full scan. now I'm gonna get a 'hurt' reply.

strangely, he has 100% feedback on more than 300 items on Ebay.

why jeopardise that for this kind of shite?