Bullying On The Soul Scene

[Guest]

OK, I referred to this in the current thread for Bury Town Hall.

I have received a letter pertaining to be from the 'anti bullying soul group .co.uk' which, basically, tells me who I should and should not allow into my events at Bury Town Hall.

(By the way - I've checked and the website doesn't exist)

At this early stage I must re-iterate: It is NOT my intention to re-open the debate regarding the events at the weekender. Principally because it is NONE of my business and my opinions of the WHO? WHAT? WHERE? do not matter.

Only those people involved know exactly what happened and, probably more importantly, what happened in the time before the incident. Whatever the reasons, it wasn't a "Spontaneous Human Disagreement" - there must be a complex background to it all and only those folk know what that is.

From what I could see and read from the thread when it was live, the ONLY thing that was conclusive about what happened was that the whole thing was INCONCLUSIVE!

Notwithstanding that, for ANYBODY to deign to the right to demand that I ban this or that person from a third party position, having actually been broad when the incident took place, is a step over the line and one which will be treated with the contempt it deserves.

Anybody who is or has been a regular at Bury Town Hall will know that in the event of ANY signs of a problem from ANY individual will be dealt with by myself, personally, there and then.

There have been 3 instances in almost nine years when the odd individual (in all but one case, non-soulies who have allowed booze to get the better of them) have made a nuicance of themselves in my venue.

On each occasion, they have been out of the door and barred before anybody else has even realised that there was even a sniff of a problem. That is my policy and it has served me well.

Irrespective of who it may be, If I thought that a person or group was engaged in bullying, piss-taking or anything else unsavoury within my venue, I will ask them to stop / leave depending on the gravity of what is going on.

I know the individuals involved in the incident referred to. I count them all as pals and, awkward though it may be, am not prepared to start banning either on the back of an emotional, uninformed outburst from an anonymous source who feels that have the power of veto over the attendees at my venue.

Any real frend of the scene or indeed, friend of my venue, would at least have the courtesy to talk to me directly.

Even in a case of catatonic shyness keeping them from talking to or phoning me, signing the letter would, perhaps, have lent some credibility to the contents of their letter.

Als, neither are the case so I am left with no recourse other than the obvious, which is to go with what I feel to be the best thing for my venue and the security of the people who good enough to support what we do month in month out.

On that basis, I will carry on as before and I fully expect that people will respect my outlook on other peoples business by not bringing it into my event and making it an issue for others who are not involved to worry about. Anything different, from anybody - not just those involved in the case in point - would not be welcome.

Some people may contest my approach and that's fair enough. I stand by my philosophy based on what works for me and my venue.

I am not casting for opinion or support. I am merely bringing to the wider attention, the sort of B-S that is going on in the background that is making the promoting of any event even more difficult that it already is.

My message to the Anti Bullying Soul Group.Co.Uk is this:

1. Unless armed with water-tight facts and the power of attourney of both sides, don't get involved. You will end up looking silly.

2. Don't judge events from overseas. How stupid did Blair sound every time he told us all was fine in Iraq?

3. Lead by example. Trying to bully promoters is not the best business case for your cause given your (probably) well intended name.

I have attached high res. scans of the letter so that you can judge the content for yourselves and close by saying again. I DO NOT want to re-open the debate about the event in June. I only want to publicise some of the less savoury fall-out and let the authors of this letter know that they will NOT achieve anything by trying to intimidate me into running my event in a certain way.

Neil Jones.

[Guest]

Well said Neil.

It does make me so sad that someone has done this. I'm proud of the fact that in almost nine years we've had nothing like this and virtually no trouble.

The fact that no one even puts their name to this annoys me beyond belief. Personal opinions of the individuals aside, no one would get any backing to an argument by behaving in this way.

Jayne.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Miss BurySoul

[Mike]

Neil

due to actual names in the 2 scans

have had to remove them

if wish to post such, it be best that all names etc are blanked out

thanks

mike

[Guest]

Neil

due to actual names in the 2 scans

have had to remove them

if wish to post such, it be best that all names etc are blanked out

thanks

mike

Apologies Mike,

It did cross my mind but I didnt want anyone thinking I had done any 'selective editing'.

I'll blank out names and re-post.

Neil.

[Pete Eccles]

OK, I referred to this in the current thread for Bury Town Hall.

I have received a letter pertaining to be from the 'anti bullying soul group .co.uk' which, basically, tells me who I should and should not allow into my events at Bury Town Hall.

(By the way - I've checked and the website doesn't exist)

At this early stage I must re-iterate: It is NOT my intention to re-open the debate regarding the events at the weekender. Principally because it is NONE of my business and my opinions of the WHO? WHAT? WHERE? do not matter.

Only those people involved know exactly what happened and, probably more importantly, what happened in the time before the incident. Whatever the reasons, it wasn't a "Spontaneous Human Disagreement" - there must be a complex background to it all and only those folk know what that is.

From what I could see and read from the thread when it was live, the ONLY thing that was conclusive about what happened was that the whole thing was INCONCLUSIVE!

Notwithstanding that, for ANYBODY to deign to the right to demand that I ban this or that person from a third party position, having actually been broad when the incident took place, is a step over the line and one which will be treated with the contempt it deserves.

Anybody who is or has been a regular at Bury Town Hall will know that in the event of ANY signs of a problem from ANY individual will be dealt with by myself, personally, there and then.

There have been 3 instances in almost nine years when the odd individual (in all but one case, non-soulies who have allowed booze to get the better of them) have made a nuicance of themselves in my venue.

On each occasion, they have been out of the door and barred before anybody else has even realised that there was even a sniff of a problem. That is my policy and it has served me well.

Irrespective of who it may be, If I thought that a person or group was engaged in bullying, piss-taking or anything else unsavoury within my venue, I will ask them to stop / leave depending on the gravity of what is going on.

I know the individuals involved in the incident referred to. I count them all as pals and, awkward though it may be, am not prepared to start banning either on the back of an emotional, uninformed outburst from an anonymous source who feels that have the power of veto over the attendees at my venue.

Any real frend of the scene or indeed, friend of my venue, would at least have the courtesy to talk to me directly.

Even in a case of catatonic shyness keeping them from talking to or phoning me, signing the letter would, perhaps, have lent some credibility to the contents of their letter.

Als, neither are the case so I am left with no recourse other than the obvious, which is to go with what I feel to be the best thing for my venue and the security of the people who good enough to support what we do month in month out.

On that basis, I will carry on as before and I fully expect that people will respect my outlook on other peoples business by not bringing it into my event and making it an issue for others who are not involved to worry about. Anything different, from anybody - not just those involved in the case in point - would not be welcome.

Some people may contest my approach and that's fair enough. I stand by my philosophy based on what works for me and my venue.

I am not casting for opinion or support. I am merely bringing to the wider attention, the sort of B-S that is going on in the background that is making the promoting of any event even more difficult that it already is.

My message to the Anti Bullying Soul Group.Co.Uk is this:

1. Unless armed with water-tight facts and the power of attourney of both sides, don't get involved. You will end up looking silly.

2. Don't judge events from overseas. How stupid did Blair sound every time he told us all was fine in Iraq?

3. Lead by example. Trying to bully promoters is not the best business case for your cause given your (probably) well intended name.

I have attached high res. scans of the letter so that you can judge the content for yourselves and close by saying again. I DO NOT want to re-open the debate about the event in June. I only want to publicise some of the less savoury fall-out and let the authors of this letter know that they will NOT achieve anything by trying to intimidate me into running my event in a certain way.

Neil Jones.

Hi Neil, my take on this for what its worth,

Doesn't take Shirlock Holmes to work out this letter has nothing to do with reported events previously,

Not only was the author abroad at the time but they can't even get the names right of the alleged victims (one incorrectly spelled and the other the complete wrong name) so my guess is they arn't that close,

That leaves me to conclude there's an obvious personal issue going on here, using any other issues purely as a convenient vehicle for their intentions, sad really as if any particular venue had attendees i wasn't to keen on personally i would just not attend if it meant that much to me,

To actully pen an anonmous letter 'advising' an experienced promoter like yourself how to promote and expecting a favourable response is just immature and naive (sp?) to put it mildly,

I would advise whoever sent this letter, maybe they are reading this, to try and fulfill their life in another enviroment as the soul scene is obviously letting them down if they feel the need to take this sort of action to get their 'fix',

Keep up the good work Jonesy and try not to take this to seriously,

Pete from Farnworth

[Mark Bicknell]

Neil, this sickens me mate and it's just one of the many negative aspects of the current scene, if anything is gonna put people off and stop them going or being involved it's this kind of crap, it's certainly putting me off, yet the single most important thing that keeps us all interested is the 'music' you can take away the venues, DJ's and everything else yet you will still have the tunes mate which I take great comfort in.

I have never known so much bad blood,conflict and politics on this scene in my 31 years involved, it's a sad state of affairs, ego driven and has nothing to do with what most of us are about, it's evil.

If this continues then it will be the 'death nail' of the scene, the cracks are starting to appear and I for one am getting to the stage that I just can't be bothered anymore and I'm sure many others feel the same, why the f**K should we be made to feel like this? as many of us do and can make a huge contribution to the enjoyment and pleasure the scene and it's music gives people, the negatives often pitched by people who contribute nothing of any constructive depth to the scene apart from bitter and twisted actions such as this, I've said it before and I'll say it again often those who shout the loudest have f**k all to say! they do nothing for the good of the scene and I'm sure they 'get off' by causing problems.Sure not everyone connected with the scene get's on or sees eye to eye but that's life, we get on with it and try to do our own thing.

You pass comment, make a stand, offer a resolution and it get's pushed back in your face or worse!

This is a total disgrace Neil and as already been offered here i will stand back to back with you on this mate no question, you are firstly a very good friend of mine, secondly you promote gigs for no other reason than the joy it brings others, you have a professional and detailed approach and always consider how to improve and better your events, the sender of this letter and it will be interesting to know if any other promotions have been singled out here? should be traced, confronted and totally isolated from the scene, funny that you are made to feel like this Neil by actions and events that had nothing to do with you in the first place, I would really like to know how and why this involves you?

Regards and respect pal - Mark Bicknell.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Mark Bicknell

[Guest]

Here is the letter, re-scanned with names blanked out (except my own) as requested by Mike.

Interesting to note however, that this 'friend of the scene' actually managed to get the names of 3 of the 5 people named wrong!

Neil Jones

[Guest]

Neil, this sickens me mate and it's just one of the many negative aspects of the current scene, if anything is gonna put people off and stop them going or being involved it's this kind of crap, it's certainly putting me off, yet the single most important thing that keeps us all interested is the 'music' you can take away the venues, DJ's and everything else yet you will still have the tunes mate which I take great comfort in.

I have never known so much bad blood,conflict and politics on this scene in my 31 years involved, it's a sad state of affairs, ego driven and has nothing to do with what most of us are about, it's evil.

If this continues then it will be the 'death nail' of the scene, the cracks are starting to appear and I for one am getting to the stage that I just can't be bothered anymore and I'm sure many others feel the same, why the f**K should we be made to feel like this? as many of us do and can make a huge contribution to the enjoyment and pleasure the scene and it's music gives people, the negatives often pitched by people who contribute nothing of any constructive depth to the scene apart from bitter and twisted actions such as this, I've said it before and I'll say it again often those who shout the loudest have f**k all to say! they do nothing for the good of the scene and I'm sure they 'get off' by causing problems.Sure not everyone connected with the scene get's on or sees eye to eye but that's life, we get on with it and try to do our own thing.

You pass comment, make a stand, offer a resolution and it get's pushed back in your face or worse!

This is a total disgrace Neil and as already been offered here i will stand back to back with you on this mate no question, you are firstly a very good friend of mine, secondly you promote gigs for no other reason than the joy it brings others, you have a professional and detailed approach and always consider how to improve and better your events, the sender of this letter and it will be interesting to know if any other promotions have been singled out here? should be traced, confronted and totally isolated from the scene, funny that you are made to feel like this Neil by actions and events that had nothing to do with you in the first place, I would really like to know how and why this involves you?

Regards and respect pal - Mark Bicknell.

Agreed Mark.

I recall the letter was post marked Bolton.. I think we're one of the nearest venue's to them. Still puzzling as all concerned aren't really regular's of ours.

Jayne.x

[Guest]

Try again!

It was trying to upload that took me so long in the 1st place!!

Neil

[Guest Matt Male]

Unbelievable. The nastiest thing i've read in a long time.

So this so-called 'Beat the Bully' club uses threats and blackmail to get its own way? I bet they are too stupid to even understand the irony.

No-one can advise you what to do Neil, its your venue, but personally i'd tell these jokers to get stuffed and take their business and their poison pen letters elsewhere.

You've got my full support.

Matt

[Ezzie Brown]

havent been to bury 4 a while but its a smashing venue run by smashing people attended by smashing people! just keep the faith neil, you aint done a thing wrong, its not your call to do otherwise and i support u all the way, this is all getting right out of hand drawing in all sorts of venues and groups of people. HOW MANY MORE TIMES MUST PEOPLE BE ADVISED IF IT WASNT U FIGHTING OR ARGUEING BACK OFF AND LEAVE IT TO THOSE PERSONALLY INVOLVED!!! HAVE U NOT GOT YOUR OWN PROBLEMS TO SORT? I HAVE> ANY ONE WHO BOYCOTTES BURY IS SAD AND WRONG!!!!! EZZIE

[Guest]

hi neil

I understand your anger, but i think you've just got to rise above it!

By giving these anonymous threats a forum like this, you have given them a credibility that they don't deserve\(and i don't know anyone involved personally, and i dont care).

hope bury went well

I'm sure u r not the first promoter to receive nasty letters/phone calls.

Let em get on with it, in the meantime we'll just enjoy our scene

PS Is it just me, or is there a bit of a strange atmosphere at some venues these days? I mean from the north west to the midlands, which is all i can speak for.

is it the all-night bars, or other substances involved?

This used to be such a friendly scene when we were all singing off the same hymn sheet.......if you get my drift

Dave

[Guest]

What can I say guys? Thanks to Mark B, Ezzie, Mark, Matt and all who have posted or PM'd me to say that I've approached this in the right way. They say you should always go with your instincts and that's what I set out to do but your comments and reassurances have gone a long way to reinforce my own views and I appreciate it.

It's warming when you get support like this because it helps to remember that there are far more positives to this scene of ours than otherwise. . Lets keep it this way!

Thanks to all for the words of common sense.

Neil Jones.

[pikeys dog]

Childish nonsense.

Sending anonymous letters is the act of a coward.

If you feel so strongly about the matter, approach the promotor face to face and at least give them the opportunity answer your fears.

[Guest]

What can I say guys? Thanks to Mark B, Ezzie, Mark, Matt and all who have posted or PM'd me to say that I've approached this in the right way. They say you should always go with your instincts and that's what I set out to do but your comments and reassurances have gone a long way to reinforce my own views and I appreciate it.

It's warming when you get support like this because it helps to remember that there are far more positives to this scene of ours than otherwise. . Lets keep it this way!

Thanks to all for the words of common sense.

Neil Jones.

I'm sure it is warming to get support like this especially when you remember that Bury's never been run for the money. It's always been the case that if we've all had a fun night, heard great music and had a laugh with great company then it's been a success, regardless of whether people got paid or not!.

and yes, we had a great night last night, but thats for the events lookback.

Jayne.x.

[Colin Wood]

Hi Neil,

Put that letter where it belongs mate, in the bin and ignore the sender's stupidity and ignorance of the scene. If I'd have got something like this when we were promoting it would have been like water of a duck's back and if ignoring it kept a few away then so be it.

Don't ge over to Bury as often as we'd like but without transport it's difficult. You run a long running and well respected night sa as you say treat this with the contempt it deserves and do your own thing as you always have..

Colin.

[Guest Bearsy]

Try again!

It was trying to upload that took me so long in the 1st place!!

Neil

they call themselves the anti bullying soul group

what they are doing is trying to bully,

if it is so true and they dont turn up you may be worse off by £150 but you event will be better off without them

[Guest]

they call themselves the anti bullying soul group

what they are doing is trying to bully,

if it is so true and they dont turn up you may be worse off by £150 but you event will be better off without them

Very true. One thing is for sure. They WILL NOT be bulying me!!

Thanks again to all who posted or PMd with support.

Neil Jones.

[Guest]

they call themselves the anti bullying soul group

what they are doing is trying to bully,

if it is so true and they dont turn up you may be worse off by £150 but you event will be better off without them

I agree,

and the numbers were up at Bury the other week with a good night had by all.

Jayne.x.

[Guest Phil Richards]

Neil, this sickens me mate and it's just one of the many negative aspects of the current scene, if anything is gonna put people off and stop them going or being involved it's this kind of crap, it's certainly putting me off, yet the single most important thing that keeps us all interested is the 'music' you can take away the venues, DJ's and everything else yet you will still have the tunes mate which I take great comfort in.

I have never known so much bad blood,conflict and politics on this scene in my 31 years involved, it's a sad state of affairs, ego driven and has nothing to do with what most of us are about, it's evil.

If this continues then it will be the 'death nail' of the scene, the cracks are starting to appear and I for one am getting to the stage that I just can't be bothered anymore and I'm sure many others feel the same, why the f**K should we be made to feel like this? as many of us do and can make a huge contribution to the enjoyment and pleasure the scene and it's music gives people, the negatives often pitched by people who contribute nothing of any constructive depth to the scene apart from bitter and twisted actions such as this, I've said it before and I'll say it again often those who shout the loudest have f**k all to say! they do nothing for the good of the scene and I'm sure they 'get off' by causing problems.Sure not everyone connected with the scene get's on or sees eye to eye but that's life, we get on with it and try to do our own thing.

You pass comment, make a stand, offer a resolution and it get's pushed back in your face or worse!

This is a total disgrace Neil and as already been offered here i will stand back to back with you on this mate no question, you are firstly a very good friend of mine, secondly you promote gigs for no other reason than the joy it brings others, you have a professional and detailed approach and always consider how to improve and better your events, the sender of this letter and it will be interesting to know if any other promotions have been singled out here? should be traced, confronted and totally isolated from the scene, funny that you are made to feel like this Neil by actions and events that had nothing to do with you in the first place, I would really like to know how and why this involves you?

Regards and respect pal - Mark Bicknell.

Mark you are spot on with this reply,as for the people that run Bury Soul who i don't know and have never meet just keep on doing what you do as it seems to be very successful and bin the letter

Edited August 26, 2007 by Phil Richards