How Long

[Tomangoes]

Have CDs had their day?

Now you can fit around 300 MP3 tracks on a CD (OK this has been possible for over 5 years), and most car CD players can read them, how long before the record companies re-produce the likes of Wigan Casino volumes 1 to 15 and sell it commercially?

Ed

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Have CDs had their day?

Now you can fit around 300 MP3 tracks on a CD (OK this has been possible for over 5 years), and most car CD players can read them, how long before the record companies re-produce the likes of Wigan Casino volumes 1 to 15 and sell it commercially?

Ed

In three words - never gonna happen...

...Not in this lifetime, anyway.

[Simon M]

In three words - never gonna happen...

...Not in this lifetime, anyway.

Mp3's in the main are of very low sound quality and are still not worth even 10p Give me a High rate WAV anyday for my Laptop DJ software !!

[Pete S]

Mp3's in the main are of very low sound quality and are still not worth even 10p Give me a High rate WAV anyday for my Laptop DJ software !!

I can't hear any difference at all between mp3 and wav recorded in high quality

[Simon M]

I can't hear any difference at all between mp3 and wav recorded in high quality

Well mp3's from Itunes are quite low kps .. WAV's from beatport etc are very high quality and then theres some soundfiles inbetween that

Edited August 16, 2007 by Simon M

[Chalky]

I can't hear any difference at all between mp3 and wav recorded in high quality

I forget the exact compression rate but it's something like 14:1 (may even be 17:1) before any audible loss of quality. That will still give you a decent size mp3 for listening pleasure on any media, home or car. I doubt very much you can notice little if any loss in quality at an mp3 with a bit rate of 128kbps, thats decent enough for most car mp3 cd's.

[Sebastian]

I will not ever pay money for a digital soundfile unless it's supplied to me in file format encoded with a lossless audio codec. Uncompressed WAV is the way to go in my opinion. The world just needs cheaper and higher capacity hard drives and faster internet connections. I'm convinced that we'll get there eventually.

[Simon M]

I forget the exact compression rate but it's something like 14:1 (may even be 17:1) before any audible loss of quality. That will still give you a decent size mp3 for listening pleasure on any media, home or car. I doubt very much you can notice little if any loss in quality at an mp3 with a bit rate of 128kbps, thats decent enough for most car mp3 cd's.

Well of course Im talking about big systems , in clubs outside of the Northern scene . 128kps , is just not good enough. Horses for courses really , playing 128kps on earphones may be fine for most teenagers these days .

[Simon M]

I will not ever pay money for a digital soundfile unless it's supplied to me in file format encoded with a lossless audio codec. Uncompressed WAV is the way to go in my opinion. The world just needs cheaper and higher capacity hard drives and faster internet connections. I'm convinced that we'll get there eventually.

Ditto

[Geoff]

I'm no expert on sound files but the advantage of MP3s over Wav files is size. Usually the latter are enormous and take ages to download, even on broadband.

However when I do a CD I try to use MP3s of 256 kbps or 320 kbps. I was under the impression that the MP3s you purchase from the likes of iTunes, etc are 128 kbps, which is not that good really, a bit of a cheek to charge for these, I would expect high quality MP3s if money is involved.

Perhaps someone who has used iTunes could confirm this.

On the subject of record companies selling CDs of MP3s, what price would they sell them for? They'd want more than the current price of CDs I'd imagine. And that is one of the possible problems of falling sales of CDs. If you go to the likes of HMV, etc their prices seem high to me. I know you can get some on the net cheaper but many can't be bothered or may not trust site security.

I know copying and downloading has probably affected sales, but not all CDs are good value, some good stuff and some fillers, and not always good quality sound.

[Pete S]

Well mp3's from Itunes are quite low kps .. WAV's from beatport etc are very high quality and then theres some soundfiles inbetween that

I'm just on about records I record off the usb deck onto my pc - but if I download albums from whatever dodgy site, I've never noticed that the sound is anything but normal..

[Sebastian]

I doubt very much you can notice little if any loss in quality at an mp3 with a bit rate of 128kbps

I persoally need 192kbps at LEAST to get anywhere near "good" sound quality. Crank up the volume on a 128kbps file and it sounds terrible especially at the high-end.

thats decent enough for most car mp3 cd's.

I definitely agree with that. I usually use much less kbps (64-96) and mono sound files for my portable MP3 or mobile phone.

But... Why be satisfied with that it sounds good in the car? Or your mobile phone? Cassettes sounds utter crap as well, and I've hapily used them during my entire life, but I would never ever buy a pre-recorded one. It's simply just not good enough and the same goes for MP3s.

[Chalky]

I persoally need 192kbps at LEAST to get anywhere near "good" sound quality. Crank up the volume on a 128kbps file and it sounds terrible especially at the high-end.

I definitely agree with that. I usually use much less kbps (64-96) and mono sound files for my portable MP3 or mobile phone.

But... Why be satisfied with that it sounds good in the car? Or your mobile phone? Cassettes sounds utter crap as well, and I've hapily used them during my entire life, but I would never ever buy a pre-recorded one. It's simply just not good enough and the same goes for MP3s.

I always record to wav and for saving convert to an mp3 of 224kbps, thats a compression rate of 6:1 I think off top of me head

When posting on places like here I convert to mp3 pro with a bit rate of 40kbps.

Edited August 16, 2007 by chalky

[Simon M]

I'm just on about records I record off the usb deck onto my pc - but if I download albums from whatever dodgy site, I've never noticed that the sound is anything but normal..

As I said , Its horses for courses , 128 kps may be fine for you Pete

[Simon M]

I always record to wav and for saving convert to an mp3 of 224kbps, thats a compression rate of 6:1 I think off top of me head

When posting on places like here I convert to mp3 pro with a bit rate of 40kbps.

I go right down to 20kps on here !

[Pete S]

As I said , Its horses for courses , 128 kps may be fine for you Pete

Don't make a lot of difference when I'm playing a 45 year old ska record which has never seen a sleeve and sounds like bacon frying anyway

[Simon M]

Don't make a lot of difference when I'm playing a 45 year old ska record which has never seen a sleeve and sounds like bacon frying anyway

Yeah why did they do that ? The lables are sometimes destroyed too , on soulful reggae records ?

Edited August 16, 2007 by Simon M

[Pete S]

Yeah why did they do that ? The lables are sometimes destroyed too , on soulful reggae records ?

Quite often they have no labels to start with - they are played and sold as blank pre-releases, by the time they get a proper release the buzz has died down which is why you see more blanks than proper issues on Jamaican 45's. Over here, a lot of the labels were defaced simply so that rival sound systems couldn't find out what the tracks were. I've got countless records with the title and artist scratched out...even common ones like Desmond Dekker - 007, meaning at one time it must have been quite exclusive

[soulAdequateNP]

However when I do a CD I try to use MP3s of 256 kbps or 320 kbps. I was under the impression that the MP3s you purchase from the likes of iTunes, etc are 128 kbps, which is not that good really, a bit of a cheek to charge for these, I would expect high quality MP3s if money is involved.

Perhaps someone who has used iTunes could confirm this.

Regular itunes downloads are 128kbps and 79p each, some tracks are also available as "iTunes Plus" which is 256kbps and 99p each - also note that iTunes downloads are mp4, not mp3 so should in theory be slightly better than mp3 as the codec is newer.

Also, fixed bitrate however large is inefficient anyway - LAME APS rules or if you have to go uncompressed, theres always Apple Lossless or FLAC.

[Guest Paul]

Legal MP3 downloads are already selling in VAST quantities but the only really big player is iTunes (largely because of their iPod compatability) and their selection of music isn't so good for niche markets. It's like having the world's biggest record store but they don't stock much soul music.

As someone said, most individual downloads are 79p for an MP4 at 128 kb/s.

The quality is good if the files have been converted professionally in the first place. The truth is that most people can't really distinguish between pro MP3 or MP4 files and WAV files, especially when the "lost frequencies" are mostly sounds that humans can't hear and most speakers can't even reproduce.

When Apple finally let go of their DRM restrictions it will escalate the sale of MP3s and, sadly, will bring the physical music industry down ever further. The exceptions - but only to a degree - are specialist labels who target people who (thankfully) still want a tangible product with sleeve booklets for credits and history etc.

As publishers we get income from Apple iTunes etc but it has yet to compensate for the fall in income due to the lower sales of physical products. Everyone is waiting to see an upturn.

It's worth noting that some people (including myself) have been buying iTunes vouchers at huge discounts, for example a £100 voucher can often be bought online for only £25. In those cases the value for consumers is excellent but it makes you wonder how long this will continue before they realise how many customers are getting tracks at 20p each. Five tracks for a pound. And they're on your desktop before you have time to even wonder where the nearest HMV is.

I love records and CDs but for storage and for easy access you can't beat digital audio. One format doesn't always have to replace the other. You can store over 100,000 files on a 320 gb hard drive that costs little and doesn't take up much space. No wonder radio stations love MP3 files so much.

The biggest problem for the music industry is unauthorised file sharing. It's even easier than burning CDs so a large percentage of people will always get free copies.

Paul Mooney

[Simon M]

This may sound strange but today we have the mp3 soul collector , and they have been known to offer £20 and over for high quality soundfiles of soul records that are not on cd

[Guest Neil-ok]

Have CDs had their day?

Now you can fit around 300 MP3 tracks on a CD (OK this has been possible for over 5 years), and most car CD players can read them, how long before the record companies re-produce the likes of Wigan Casino volumes 1 to 15 and sell it commercially?

Ed

Thinking about it,its the only way forward to combat all the soundfile/mps sharing that goes on on the net(i am one of those)but i can see some sort of advanced sound file that you can buy on the net that is tracked or unable to share or something along those lines...or have i been watching to much Star Trek.

[Simon M]

Thinking about it,its the only way forward to combat all the soundfile/mps sharing that goes on on the net(i am one of those)but i can see some sort of advanced sound file that you can buy on the net that is tracked or unable to share or something along those lines...or have i been watching to much Star Trek.

You can watermark soundfiles .

[TOAD]

YES SO IT SAYS WHEN YOU BUY FROM TRAXSOURCE ITS TRACEABLE BACK TO THE BUYER

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

This may sound strange but today we have the mp3 soul collector , and they have been known to offer £20 and over for high quality soundfiles of soul records that are not on cd

So, the lunatics really HAVE taken over the asylum, then

[Bazza]

I go right down to 20kps on here !

I tried posting an mp3 pro file at 32kb/s..but refosoul did not convert it properly it played very fast..it used to convert ok but not now....unless I did it wrong..anyone tried posting a pro file recently ???

Bazza

[Guest rachel]

Apparently the CD is 25 years old today!

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20070817/ten-...-1dc2b55_1.html

[Guest]

This may sound strange but today we have the mp3 soul collector , and they have been known to offer £20 and over for high quality soundfiles of soul records that are not on cd

I quite often get people emailing me offering to pay anywhere between £2-£20 for full MP3s of records that I have for sale on eBay, they don't want to splash out £50+ for the 45 but want the track for iPods or to burn onto CD.

[Soulfreak]

This may sound strange but today we have the mp3 soul collector , and they have been known to offer £20 and over for high quality soundfiles of soul records that are not on cd

Bloody hell!!!!, Tony Rounce is right, lunacy....

For me it has to be something solid in your hands before I can say I 'have' this track , vinyl preferably, but CD for unissued and super rare sides.

Imagine no more rare labels to gaze at with the artist & songwriter's names laid out for posterity.

Or CD's with rare photos and well researched liner notes giving credit where it's dues to artists, songwriters, musicians, producers, label owners, clubs where they performed etc, etc.

In the case of the reissue CD, it's also something for the artist to treasure and proudly show to his/her family & friends

All this to be sacrificed for a 20p 'soundfile' ..... what an appalling thought.....

[Pete S]

I quite often get people emailing me offering to pay anywhere between £2-£20 for full MP3s of records that I have for sale on eBay, they don't want to splash out £50+ for the 45 but want the track for iPods or to burn onto CD.

See that sort of thing is just bizarre to me, people offering to pay for mp3's, if anyone ever asks me for a track I just send it to them if I've got it. I couldn't charge just for a little file like that. (Not saying you do) Obviously I'd charge if it were like 500 or 1000 mp3's.

[Pete S]

Couple of points. Firstly, I have never been able to understand the appeal of the i-pod, it's a fashion item and thats that, the Creative Zen M has another 25% more capacity and also can hold 200 hours of film as well as 14,000 music tracks for about £50 less it's ipod equivalent. I was thinking of getting a new mp3 player, it won't be an ipod.

Second thing. I was in Virgin records yesterday and the student behind the desk says "did you find everything you were lookijng for" and I said "well to be honest, no I didn't, your reggae section is absolutely pathetic, 2 years ago it was great but now all you've got are Trojan box sets and little else". verbatim that is. Anyway he said that they had been ordered to downsize practically every music section as there was such a decline in sales. This to me is the thin end of the wedge, eventually it looks like there may be no physical product at all and everything will be a computer file. Remember in the 70's when we used to walk around with our latest album tucked under our arms so that everyone could see it? Try that with an mp3.

[Guest]

See that sort of thing is just bizarre to me, people offering to pay for mp3's, if anyone ever asks me for a track I just send it to them if I've got it. I couldn't charge just for a little file like that. (Not saying you do) Obviously I'd charge if it were like 500 or 1000 mp3's.

I always say no, mainly because I generally only record 1 minute clips as a sample for records that I'm selling and can't be bothered to dig out the record and do another recording of it. Did once get offered £35 for a full high quality MP3 of an unissued acetate I was selling, was very tempted but thought it would have been a bit unfair on the buyer of the acetate who was paying £250+ for an exclusive sound if I then sold a MP3 to someone else who probably would have cut it to a disc and then done who knows what with it.

[Simon M]

I always say no, mainly because I generally only record 1 minute clips as a sample for records that I'm selling and can't be bothered to dig out the record and do another recording of it. Did once get offered £35 for a full high quality MP3 of an unissued acetate I was selling, was very tempted but thought it would have been a bit unfair on the buyer of the acetate who was paying £250+ for an exclusive sound if I then sold a MP3 to someone else who probably would have cut it to a disc and then done who knows what with it.

I used to say yes like Pete . but now in the main I say no , or send a 20kps clipped mp3 .. Then the mp3 collector will say I dont have the record and Ive hijacked the mp3

[Simon M]

Couple of points. Firstly, I have never been able to understand the appeal of the i-pod, it's a fashion item and thats that, the Creative Zen M has another 25% more capacity and also can hold 200 hours of film as well as 14,000 music tracks for about £50 less it's ipod equivalent. I was thinking of getting a new mp3 player, it won't be an ipod.

Second thing. I was in Virgin records yesterday and the student behind the desk says "did you find everything you were lookijng for" and I said "well to be honest, no I didn't, your reggae section is absolutely pathetic, 2 years ago it was great but now all you've got are Trojan box sets and little else". verbatim that is. Anyway he said that they had been ordered to downsize practically every music section as there was such a decline in sales. This to me is the thin end of the wedge, eventually it looks like there may be no physical product at all and everything will be a computer file. Remember in the 70's when we used to walk around with our latest album tucked under our arms so that everyone could see it? Try that with an mp3.

I think there will be a demand for limited runs of vinyl but they may cost a bit .. Your spot on about the ipod Pete , I agree .. Oh no I agreed with you again

[Guest moore572]

DEPENDS WHAT YOU WANT TO COLLECT!

VINYL IS WAY OUT OF THE REACH OF A LOT OF PEOPLE NOWADAYS, UNLESS YOU BUY RE-ISSUES, MOST CD ALBUMS ARE THE SAME OLD TRACKS, JUMBLED ABOUT, WITH MAYBE 2 OR 3 WORTHWHILE TRACKS ON THEM.

PERSONALLY I HAVE ALL MY COLLECTION OF OVER 2,500 NORTHERN/MODERN SOUL ALBUMS STORED IN MP3 FILES C/W COVERS IN MY EXTERNAL HARD DRIVES, I CAN HONESTLY SAY I AM QUITE HAPPY TO LISTEN TO THEM IN 128kbps

[Wilxy]

All this talk of Ipods and MP3's is giving me a complex, I've just about mastered the CD player in the car FFS

[Guest Paul]

Hello Pete,

I don't actually have an iPod because I'm usually near a computer at home or in the office. For the car I play MP3 files burned onto CD-R and that gives me more than enough tracks to listen to.

If I plugged an iPod into the car it would give me too much choice and I don't fancy watching movies while I'm driving, keeping one eye on the road and the other on a sat nav screen.

How soon before someone drives over a cliff because they were concentrating on everything but where they were going?

You know the old joke about the sign that says "DANGER, CLIFF AHEAD"? I didn't see it and the next thing I bumped straight into this old bloke singing "Summer Holiday".

Paul Mooney

[Guest Paul]

...All this to be sacrificed for a 20p 'soundfile' ..... what an appalling thought.....

Hello,

The important thing - at least for us lot - is that one format should not replace the other. I have many thousands of MP3 files but most tracks I also have on vinyl or CD.

The MP3 files are just for convenience, fast access, portability etc.

Paul Mooney

[Chalky]

Second thing. I was in Virgin records yesterday and the student behind the desk says "did you find everything you were lookijng for" and I said "well to be honest, no I didn't, your reggae section is absolutely pathetic, 2 years ago it was great but now all you've got are Trojan box sets and little else". verbatim that is. Anyway he said that they had been ordered to downsize practically every music section as there was such a decline in sales. This to me is the thin end of the wedge, eventually it looks like there may be no physical product at all and everything will be a computer file. Remember in the 70's when we used to walk around with our latest album tucked under our arms so that everyone could see it? Try that with an mp3.

It's not just down to mp3's though the decline in shop cd sales though Pete, many cd are now bought on line as they are often cheaper and you don't have to get out of the chair to buy them

[Guest Paul]

It's not just down to mp3's though the decline in shop cd sales though Pete, many cd are now bought on line as they are often cheaper and you don't have to get out of the chair to buy them

This is very true and I've often bought CDs online from play, amazon etc. But we should all try, whenever possible, to support specialist soul retailers because things are difficult for them.

Use them or lose them.

Paul Mooney

[Chalky]

This is very true and I've often bought CDs online from play, amazon etc. But we should all try, whenever possible, to support specialist soul retailers because things are difficult for them.

Use them or lose them.

Paul Mooney

My mother went into HMV for a cd, and they wanted £8 just to try and get a cd that wasn't in stock. She would lose the £8 if they couldn't find one. I told her to tell them to b*llocks. I found brand new one in the states and it was cheaper with postage than HMV! They deserve all they get the high street stores.

I read an article other week that vinyl sales are at their highest for years....could they make a comeback?

I buy all mine online or at a venue.

Edited August 17, 2007 by chalky

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

This may sound strange but today we have the mp3 soul collector , and they have been known to offer £20 and over for high quality soundfiles of soul records that are not on cd

...Oh yeah, and 'mp3 collector' is surely the oxymoron of the month, if not the century. They are two words that should never appear together in the same sentence, especially not when separated by the word 'Soul'

Edited August 17, 2007 by TONY ROUNCE

[Dave Moore]

...Oh yeah, and 'mp3 collector' is surely the oxymoron of the month, if not the century. They are two words that should never appear together in the same sentence, especially not when separated by the word 'Soul'

Hey Tone,

I don't get it? How come CDs are ok but MP3s aren't? Are you commenting from a physical product standpoint or from a 'collectors' standpoint? Serious question Mate as I collect neither mediums. I simply can't get excited about CDs (apart from some fantastic sleeve notes on some of them), and MP3s are just ether to me.

Regards,

Dave

www.theresthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

[Guest moore572]

...Oh yeah, and 'mp3 collector' is surely the oxymoron of the month, if not the century. They are two words that should never appear together in the same sentence, especially not when separated by the word 'Soul'

OXYMORON HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!! I ALSO HAVE ALL THE ORIGINAL CD'S TO GO WITH THE MP3'S OR IS IT ONLY OKAY TO COLLECT VINYL

[Cunnie]

Not just here where vinyls on it's way out.

Watch this from America.

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[Tomangoes]

I would love to have every good soul record of every genre, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

Thats about 100,000 tracks I suppose at least.

In actual fact I would prefer them on an ipod/hard drive/lap top type storage media. It would also be nice to have original vinyl, and may have been a possibility if it was me who won the euro millions the other day.

Compilation LPs/Tapes/emi discs/8 track/cds all played a part in 'spreading the news' as HB sang.

Northern Soul Cds cannot have much further to go in terms of 'whats not' already on a cd, there have been illegal mp3 CDs out for years, so why should this not be also done by legal methods?

At least this would give better quality, and in theory anyway, pay some royalties to the artists.

Ed

[Simon M]

...Oh yeah, and 'mp3 collector' is surely the oxymoron of the month, if not the century. They are two words that should never appear together in the same sentence, especially not when separated by the word 'Soul'

They are around Tony .. they want soul music but cant afford vinyl originals Im sure they look after their mp3's and safely back them up with their Digi photographs , books and videos

[Guest Netspeaky]

Have you heard this mix compared with the original.

Unissued mix: 111110010001010010001111100001111100000000

Original mix: 111011100000111111000001111110000011111011101

Make collecting really interesting don't you just love your mp3 file, I mean record.

LONG LIVE VINYL IT'S A PHYSICAL THING.