What's The Story

[Guest Netspeaky]

I have following 45 on SOUL FOX, yes that infamous boot label, but what's the story regarding THE BELLES b/w JACKIE LEE release, this books for £25 in JM guide, and isn't listed under either artists on any other label, so I have to reconsider that it's not a boot but a proper record, and that these two tracks were actually unreleased 60's tracks which were leased to Soul Fox in the 70's, or were they tailor made in the 70's.

PINK SOUL FOX

SF-1001 A THE BELLES - LET ME DO IT (Written by Shirley Matthews, Arranged by James Carmichael & Soul Fox?)

SF-1001 B JACKIE LEE - I'LL DO ANYTHING (Written by Nelson and Relf) Arranged by James Carmichael

[funkyfeet]

MARK YOU NEED TO GET TO BED MATE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited August 14, 2007 by funkyfeet

[TOAD]

unnisued except on this

[Guest Netspeaky]

unnisued except on this

I know they only exist on this, but what's the story?

[Sean Hampsey]

I have following 45 on SOUL FOX, yes that infamous boot label, but what's the story regarding THE BELLES b/w JACKIE LEE release, this books for £25 in JM guide, and isn't listed under either artists on any other label, so I have to reconsider that it's not a boot but a proper record, and that these two tracks were actually unreleased 60's tracks which were leased to Soul Fox in the 70's, or were they tailor made in the 70's.

PINK SOUL FOX

SF-1001 A THE BELLES - LET ME DO IT (Written by Shirley Matthews, Arranged by James Carmichael & Soul Fox?)

SF-1001 B JACKIE LEE - I'LL DO ANYTHING (Written by Nelson and Relf) Arranged by James Carmichael

As I understood it, the story at the time was that Simon Soussan (The soul fox himself) got hold of Mirwood master tapes from Fred Smith (Label owner) and these two tracks were amongst the unissued stuff... so he put them out.

Always thought that they were 'suspect' though and that Simon had a hand in the actual recordings.

Anyone confirm?

Sean

[Guest]

One of the problems of being a "naughty boy" is when you do something legit, nobody believes you. Simon did get an "in" at Mirwood, and issued instrumentals of classics etc.

No reason to believe there's anything "fake" about them. I've always thought they were previously unissued tracks, which the scene has always embraced.

Why not these? Even though they originated through Simon.

Simon did occasionally do the right thing, but being naughty was far more fun.

[45cellar]

I have following 45 on SOUL FOX, yes that infamous boot label, but what's the story regarding THE BELLES b/w JACKIE LEE release, this books for £25 in JM guide, and isn't listed under either artists on any other label, so I have to reconsider that it's not a boot but a proper record, and that these two tracks were actually unreleased 60's tracks which were leased to Soul Fox in the 70's, or were they tailor made in the 70's.

PINK SOUL FOX

SF-1001 A THE BELLES - LET ME DO IT (Written by Shirley Matthews, Arranged by James Carmichael & Soul Fox?)

SF-1001 B JACKIE LEE - I'LL DO ANYTHING (Written by Nelson and Relf) Arranged by James Carmichael

One of the problems of being a "naughty boy" is when you do something legit, nobody believes you. Simon did get an "in" at Mirwood, and issued instrumentals of classics etc.

No reason to believe there's anything "fake" about them. I've always thought they were previously unissued tracks, which the scene has always embraced.

Why not these? Even though they originated through Simon.

Simon did occasionally do the right thing, but being naughty was far more fun.

Hi John

I've always thought of them as Previously Unissued,

they have that Mirwood Sound which would be hard to reproduce.

If they were Tailor Made someone should get them back in the Studio.

He did Include Soul Fox as Arranger Though, probably being mischievious.

I have always loved "Let Me Do It".

Edited August 15, 2007 by 45cellar

[Pete S]

There's a full explanation about these tracks on the Kent Mirwood cd's sleeve notes. Let Me Do It is actually called I Want To Do Everything For You Baby

[Blake H]

I have one for sale, £25 post free to UK. PM if intrested

Blake

[Guest Netspeaky]

Re-classified it's a real record then, can even put it in my play box now, wonder how many were pressed up?

[Shsdave]

Re-classified it's a real record then, can even put it in my play box now, wonder how many were pressed up?

I've got one so thats about 3 that we know of

Were either side played at Wigan (or anywhere else) can't remember when they came out '75 ? imo 2 tremendous tracks but never heard either out apart from when i played Jackie Lee at SITC a few times a couple of years ago

[Pete S]

Re-classified it's a real record then, can even put it in my play box now, wonder how many were pressed up?

Thousands, can you or anyone think of one Soul Fox record that's rare?

[Wiganer1]

I've got one so thats about 3 that we know of

Were either side played at Wigan (or anywhere else) can't remember when they came out '75 ? imo 2 tremendous tracks but never heard either out apart from when i played Jackie Lee at SITC a few times a couple of years ago

=======

let me do it was played at wigan by Russ and Pep,,good dancer rarely heard out.

[Pete S]

I've got a tape - in fact it was one of my podcast tapes - 2nd anniversary 1975, Alan Rhodes plays Let Me Do It (he also plays the instrumental of Don't Pretend)

[Guest]

Re-classified it's a real record then, can even put it in my play box now, wonder how many were pressed up?

Our data says not that common, We've had 8 over the last 8 years.

Sold 7 got one left..don't think 1000s were made but Simon usually ran at least 500.. in the whole scheme of things that is a tiny amount, and it was 30 years ago.

So £15 on reflection, seems pretty cheap, 2killer sides! And you know a box full isn't gonna turn up.

[Pete S]

Our data says not that common, We've had 8 over the last 8 years.

Sold 7 got one left..don't think 1000s were made but Simon usually ran at least 500.. in the whole scheme of things that is a tiny amount, and it was 30 years ago.

So £15 on reflection, seems pretty cheap, 2killer sides! And you know a box full isn't gonna turn up.

Without meaning to sound contrary, beggar the thought, everytime I buy a collection of pressings there's one in there, I've got one now in fact that I've had for a year or so. I used to see loads of Soul Fox records at Brighton record fair for some reason, like 10 copies of He's Alright With Me, Personality Theme etc

It's a great record but I couldn't ask more than £6 for it...but then again, I am the ASDA of record dealers so if you buy one Soul Fox, you get the second half price

[funkyfeet]

Pete, I've no doubt you see copies about, I've just found another one, but I guess every one thought it was a boot, so don't bother to file it away in their collections, maybe one of those records that if it get reactivated then demand outstrips availability, so maybe worth hanging on to your copy, seem hardly worth selling it for £6.

Edited August 15, 2007 by funkyfeet

[Guest]

Without meaning to sound contrary, beggar the thought, everytime I buy a collection of pressings there's one in there, I've got one now in fact that I've had for a year or so. I used to see loads of Soul Fox records at Brighton record fair for some reason, like 10 copies of He's Alright With Me, Personality Theme etc

It's a great record but I couldn't ask more than £6 for it...but then again, I am the ASDA of record dealers so if you buy one Soul Fox, you get the second half price

Peter,

You can sell it me now for a "poorly octopus", which Soul Fox title do I get 1/2 price?

I'll PM my card details..

[Pete S]

Peter,

You can sell it me now for a "poorly octopus", which Soul Fox title do I get 1/2 price?

I'll PM my card details..

I sold it about an hour ago - and the only other one I've got left is Don't Pretend, I forgot I sold the lot to Swoz the other week to put in that shop he runs, reckons his a big mate of yours so he should see you right

[Peter99]

This is slightly off topic - and perhaps a little tedious, but...................

For some reason I can't get Mr Fox from the label out of my head - because I had some boot or other on this "label". Seem to recall it was a big, big record at the time - but can't think what it was?

[Pete S]

This is slightly off topic - and perhaps a little tedious, but...................

For some reason I can't get Mr Fox from the label out of my head - because I had some boot or other on this "label". Seem to recall it was a big, big record at the time - but can't think what it was?

Well there's two separate series - one from 75 and one from 78-79 - first lot were all Soussan Mirwood things, second lot included Garnet Mimms, Holly St James, Herb Ward, Jackie Forrest, even Karen Young!

[Peter99]

Well there's two separate series - one from 75 and one from 78-79 - first lot were all Soussan Mirwood things, second lot included Garnet Mimms, Holly St James, Herb Ward, Jackie Forrest, even Karen Young!

Top man Pete - it was Holly St James! I know a lot of people think this is fooking shite! I still like it. Now, what did I do with that record.

[Pete S]

Top man Pete - it was Holly St James! I know a lot of people think this is fooking shite! I still like it. Now, what did I do with that record.

Who cares what anyone else thinks, it's not one of my favourites but it's perfect Northern Soul, great to dance to, breaks for clapping, catchy tune...

[Guest Bearsy]

Top man Pete - it was Holly St James! I know a lot of people think this is fooking shite! I still like it. Now, what did I do with that record.

I got that copy too Peter somewhere as it does it for me

[Peter99]

Who cares what anyone else thinks, it's not one of my favourites but it's perfect Northern Soul, great to dance to, breaks for clapping, catchy tune...

I don't care!

I think the HSJ was pink too from memory - highly irrelevant, but I think it was.

[Pete S]

I don't care!

I think the HSJ was pink too from memory - highly irrelevant, but I think it was.

Reddy-orange

[Peter99]

Reddy-orange

Reddy-orange = Pink!

[Pete S]

Reddy-orange = Pink!

Yes, reddy-orange is the new pink!

[Peter99]

Yes, reddy-orange is the new pink!

Ok Pete - I concede. Reddy-orange!

[Ady Croasdell]

One of the problems of being a "naughty boy" is when you do something legit, nobody believes you. Simon did get an "in" at Mirwood, and issued instrumentals of classics etc.

No reason to believe there's anything "fake" about them. I've always thought they were previously unissued tracks, which the scene has always embraced.

Why not these? Even though they originated through Simon.

Simon did occasionally do the right thing, but being naughty was far more fun.

Sorry John, the only "in" he got was getting his grubby hands on some of the master tapes, it's highly unlikely (like 99.999999999999999999%) that Soussan did a legitimate deal for these, a story was put around by interested parties that Randy Wood told him to take whatever tapes he wanted but the company secretary and Randy Wood's financial backer said that never happened. The Belles is of course the Mirettes 'I Want To do Everything for You Baby' and I'll Do Anything is 'Anything You Want' actually by Jackie, the voice was too distinctive to fool people. The fact that Soussan changed the artists in one case and titles in both is pretty clear evidence that this is an out and out bootleg; tampering with a published song name is strictly illegal without the songwriter and publishers permission. Both songs were written by Sherlie Matthews.

So it should not be sold as a legitimate release and £25 for a boot is on the very high side, particularly a common, poor quality one. Both sides are out legitimately on Kent's Mirwood CD series.

Edited August 15, 2007 by ady croasdell

[Manfromsoul45s]

mmm. interesting but one a similar topic what was the story on the b side of happy cats on grapevine. " Destroy that boy" don't think it was released but never new the story behind it.

[Guest]

Sorry John, the only "in" he got was getting his grubby hands on some of the master tapes, it's highly unlikely (like 99.999999999999999999%) that Soussan did a legitimate deal for these, a story was put around by interested parties that Randy Wood told him to take whatever tapes he wanted but the company secretary and Randy Wood's financial backer said that never happened. The Belles is of course the Mirettes 'I Want To do Everything for You Baby' and I'll Do Anything is 'Anything You Want' actually by Jackie, the voice was too distinctive to fool people. The fact that Soussan changed the artists in one case and titles in both is pretty clear evidence that this is an out and out bootleg; tampering with a published song name is strictly illegal without the songwriter and publishers permission. Both songs were written by Sherlie Matthews.

So it should not be sold as a legitimate release and £25 for a boot is on the very high side, particularly a common, poor quality one. Both sides are out legitimately on Kent's Mirwood CD series.

You know everytime I give Simon the benefit of the doubt, he lets me down. So him telling me they all loved him at Mirwood and he was treated like a long lost son was a bit of a fib..?

I stand corrected Aidy 'cause I was only taking his word for it, silly me.

[Ady Croasdell]

You know everytime I give Simon the benefit of the doubt, he lets me down. So him telling me they all loved him at Mirwood and he was treated like a long lost son was a bit of a fib..?

I stand corrected Aidy 'cause I was only taking his word for it, silly me.

He had a silver tongue but even I didn't believe him when he showed me all those repros he did in the mid 70s and swore blind they were originals. I told people back in England but they still bought them; what you gonna do?!

[Guest]

He had a silver tongue but even I didn't believe him when he showed me all those repros he did in the mid 70s and swore blind they were originals. I told people back in England but they still bought them; what you gonna do?!

I encountered Mr Saucepan several times , and you always had to check if your back was wet after talking to him ......

Malc Burton

Edited August 15, 2007 by Malc Burton

[Neil Rushton]

He had a silver tongue but even I didn't believe him when he showed me all those repros he did in the mid 70s and swore blind they were originals. I told people back in England but they still bought them; what you gonna do?!

I met Randy Wood in London in the late seventies when I spoke to him about licensing the Mirwood catalogue for Inferno.The deal with Contempo was up so he wanted to do something but it was never sorted as he said he could not supply the tapes.. Anyway he told me that he had done a legitimate deal of some kind for Mirwood with Simon and been paid something for it...Simon was very very difficult to deal with and basically had a Walter Mitty thing going on where he lied all the time but he was funny....if he had been straight he would have made a fortune out of the music industry.

Neil

[Sean Hampsey]

if he had been straight he would have made a fortune out of the music industry.

Neil

Agree Neil.

Must have made a couple of bob on Uptown Festival / Shalimar though, I'd have thought!

?

Sean

[Neil Rushton]

Agree Neil.

Must have made a couple of bob on Uptown Festival / Shalimar though, I'd have thought!

?

Sean

Yes, no,yes,no...he had success but even then he messed up...Ian Dewhirst and myself were due 10% of the profits from "Uptown Festival" - but we never get it,when I went to see Simon in LA at the time I ran into various others who had 10% share, to the extent Simon would have needed more than 100% to pay everyone if you know what I mean - it was a bit like a scene from Mel Brooks "The Producers". The success of "Uptown Festival" led to deals with Casablanca etc so Simon certainly got some advances etc but he never followed through and he had nothing to do with the real massive success of Shalimar afterwards, where as if he had played it straight he might have done.

He was well connected enough at the time to have really gone for it - in New York following the success of "Uptown Festival" he got me on table with Joe Tarsia of Siigma Sounds at an industry bash, so he was moving in the right circles, but you could just tell he was going to blow it.

Neil

[Sean Hampsey]

Repeated post.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Sean Hampsey

[Sean Hampsey]

Yes, no,yes,no...he had success but even then he messed up...Ian Dewhirst and myself were due 10% of the profits from "Uptown Festival" - but we never get it,when I went to see Simon in LA at the time I ran into various others who had 10% share, to the extent Simon would have needed more than 100% to pay everyone if you know what I mean - it was a bit like a scene from Mel Brooks "The Producers". The success of "Uptown Festival" led to deals with Casablanca etc so Simon certainly got some advances etc but he never followed through and he had nothing to do with the real massive success of Shalimar afterwards, where as if he had played it straight he might have done.

He was well connected enough at the time to have really gone for it - in New York following the success of "Uptown Festival" he got me on table with Joe Tarsia of Siigma Sounds at an industry bash, so he was moving in the right circles, but you could just tell he was going to blow it.

Neil

Thanks for that Neil. Always wondered if SS ever got a slice of the Shalimar action on SOLAR etc.... after all, I always believed that the group, in name at least, was his 'creation'.... even if loosely based on the Verve group, The Shalimars.

Fascinating insight mate.

Thanks again.

Sean

[Guest]

We need a new thread,

Simon Stories...

the last i heard of him he was in L.A. just popping off to purchase an unbelievable doo-wop collection, for a very trusting dealer...

[Platters 81]

when i was in LA in 88 (he said).....John Hilliard told me Eddie Jefferson kept a loaded gun in his glove compartment especially to cap SS over the Sunlovers boot.......if he ever ran into him........surely a myth....... ......a) it wasnt unusual to have a gun in said compartment b)SS had a personalised number plate...even Hilliard spotted him on the highway .....easy to find if you really wanted to........Jefferson was well pissed off tho..........

[Neil Rushton]

Joey Jeffrson who owned The Sunlovers master was very very very pissed off...which is why he messed me and Bill Baker about re oringals of "No One Else can take Your Place" - The Inspirations.

He was moaning about Simon and I remember saying take it out on him ,not us, he's not hard to find, you both live in LA.

Neil

[Neil Rushton]

Sorry I don't mean Joey Jefferson, forgot the name of the guy I do mean but have mentioned the whole story before on Soul Source.

Neil