Northern Soul History?

[Guest]

EMI DISCS

As a relatively young fan of Soul music, I have a few questions to ask about the mysteries of these EMI discs.

Who was producing these things for the scene? Was it a Soul fan that happened to be working for EMI? Were they legal?

Did they have box loads of these things at the Casino for sale every weekend, or were they produced for DJs only. How did they produce these things? Straight off the original 45 of course?

What is the full story about these things? They were used in the industry at the time as a sort of temporary promotional media with a limited lifespan were they not? That was their legitimate reason for existing?

I see Acetates for sale now and again on E Bay and realize what they were used for, but it's the UK Emi discs with the then current Northern monsters on I am wondering about.

I have a couple of these weird metal things, and realize that they are a part of the history of "Northern Soul" in the same way as the patches etc. But I would really like to hear the true story about these things!

Which tracks were put out on these things? Who was responsible?

Did EMI know anything about these things or was it a clandestine Soul operation in their back room? And why do they smell so nice? What years did they appear?

Here is a scan of Dana Valery.........obviously before the 2^nd genuine re-release on Columbia had come out? (It still plays well)

Thanks in advance!

Edited August 6, 2007 by mossy

[TOAD]

emi discs are bootlegs you could get them cut on a 7 or 12

[Guest]

emi discs are bootlegs you could get them cut on a 7 or 12

I know they were bootlegs, I am just intrested to know how it was done and who by. I suppose in 30 years time people will b wondering about vinyl carvers????

[TOAD]

i was going to mention names but decided not to.

yes illegal and there was a place in or near kettering that did them

you could have anything you wanted on them

no there wasnt boxes and boxes of them at the casino

any body could buy them

i have a benzine village of tears margret mandolph

hopes and dreams and tombe stones and a few others.

I think some came off tapes done at the venues

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

EMIdisc was merely a brand name, like TDK is a brand name for tapes, for instance. EMI themselves had nothing to do with their creation beyond originating the EMIdisc acetates - which were widely used in the record industry at that time, not just for the cutting of northern bootlegs.

[Catriona]

i was going to mention names but decided not to.

yes illegal and there was a place in or near kettering that did them

you could have anything you wanted on them

no there wasnt boxes and boxes of them at the casino

any body could buy them

i have a benzine village of tears margret mandolph

hopes and dreams and tombe stones and a few others.

I think some came off tapes done at the venues

In Regent Street in Kettering..... I think Tony Warot did an article about them for a fanzine years ago, I ll see if I can try to post it up.

[soulfulsaint]

They were usually done in collusion with the big DJs and aimed at those fans (or midweek DJs) who wanted a big record before it was

more widely availabe, either by UK release or mass bootleg. They didn't last long and of course no artists' royalty was paid, so a rip off in every sense of the word, although they are a bit of NS history and in a warped kind of way they have become 'collectable.' Many were based on the the old EPs - 4 tracks on one disc. Handwriting was usually awful and spelling not perfect. Tut Tut.

[Guest trickbag]

didnt pete s mention in another thread that he had one

made for him at wigan bye a dj, maybe he could throw some

light on this.

ricky.

[funkyfeet]

No big secret, they were advertised like vinyl carvers, anybody could get them done you just supplied what you wanted, I had a number back in the early to mid 70's, as a desperate teen you weren't bothered what it was on back then, you just wanted the record.

[Pete S]

didnt pete s mention in another thread that he had one

made for him at wigan bye a dj, maybe he could throw some

light on this.

ricky.

What we used to do, go into Sundown records in Wolverhampton on a friday afternoon and there would be a list of titles (at the time I remember there were tracks such as: Eula Cooper, Lou Pride, Reggie Garner, Frankie Crocker, Zola, Larry Santos, ken Williams, High Voltage) - you paid £5 (bearing in mind my paper money was £1.50 a week!) and went back a week later to pick your records up. The handwriting on the labels was in fact very elegant and I soon realised it came from the hand of Pep, who opened his own shop in town 6 months later and always had emi's for sale.

There was also a 2 man operation from Ormskirk (no names) who operated from the back bar at Wigan, they had a 2 page typed list of titles (I'm moving on a year now so it was the time of Yum Yums, Flirtations, Adams Apples, Len Barry, Florence Devore etc) and they took sometimes 4 weeks to supply by which time your title had been bootllegged!

Russ's records in Wigan openly advertised custom cuttings of tracks, I remember having a (don't laugh) Poppies b/w Present off Russ and it was very low sound quality.

Someone else who posts on here also did the same service, 4 tracks or 2 tracks on Pyral discs.

So basically they were everywhere but not necessarily in boxes pre-prepared, it was more a case of asking for the tracks and they'd be cut for you.

Around the middle of 78 the 7" blanks appeared to get scarce and awful 10" blanks appeared instead.

[Gene-r]

Handwriting was usually awful and spelling not perfect. Tut Tut.

Not to mention that nine times out of ten, the sound quality was diabolical. But that was always dependent on the quality of the source (ie, if it was off a crap quality tape, you got the same crap quality cut on to acetate).

Edited August 6, 2007 by Gene-R

[Citizen P]

Back in about 75 ish I had an lp of 12 tracks or so, that I bought from a dealer who would make them up from the tunes on his list.

[Pete S]

Back in about 75 ish I had an lp of 12 tracks or so, that I bought from a dealer who would make them up from the tunes on his list.

I've got one of those lp's here now but it was slightly different because me and my mate had one each cut at Jah Tubbys studios in London, sent them 16 tracks of our own choice, came back as an lp - this was in 1989 or 1990 - I sold mine years ago but his came into my posession when he died last year.

[Guest]

EMIdisc was merely a brand name, like TDK is a brand name for tapes, for instance. EMI themselves had nothing to do with their creation beyond originating the EMIdisc acetates - which were widely used in the record industry at that time, not just for the cutting of northern bootlegs.

Thanks for all the info Guys. Yes it was the EMI thing on the labels that got me scratching my head! Cheers !

[Pete S]

Thanks for all the info Guys. Yes it was the EMI thing on the labels that got me scratching my head! Cheers !

Yeah I always wondered how they got those blank labels.

[Baz Atkinson]

GOT SOME OLD EMMIS FORM WIGAN ONE IS THE TWANS I THINK,I CANNOT BREAK IT IT IS TO THICK WILL DIG IT OUT AND TAKE A PIC LOL.

BAZ A

[Ady Croasdell]

The ones cut in London in the early 70s, which I'm pretty sure were the first on the scene as no-one up North seemed to know where to get them done, were at one point considered almost as good to own as the original. Certain dealers would sell the original to a Northern DJ, not letting him know they'd done it and felt like they had got one over on the buyer in the deal. Big records were called "Sounds" and if you had the "Sound" it didn't make much difference what label it was. A bootleg was worth the same as an original once it was pressed.

[Guest]

The ones cut in London in the early 70s, which I'm pretty sure were the first on the scene as no-one up North seemed to know where to get them done, were at one point considered almost as good to own as the original. Certain dealers would sell the original to a Northern DJ, not letting him know they'd done it and felt like they had got one over on the buyer in the deal. Big records were called "Sounds" and if you had the "Sound" it didn't make much difference what label it was. A bootleg was worth the same as an original once it was pressed.

Definately showing your age with 'sounds' there Ady....though it does sound better than 'tuneage' ... the first emi disc I came across was at a mates house in Burnley sometime in the late 60s.....68/69 no later as I had left Burnley early 1970....it was The Artistics "I'm Gonna Miss You"/Blendells" La La La La La... both being popular plays down the Wheel at the time......we definately thought it a bit special and a pretty cool thing to have at the time.

Derek.

[Paul R]

Further to what Pete S said about the Ormskirk connection, the two main people involved actually worked separately. and were always threatened by Frank Elson from Blues & Soul with "writs". I don't know if anything actually happened. I did go with one of them(who I shall call Pete ) to a recording studio in Carnforth where he would get a 4 track EMI done for about £1.25. He used to provide a lot of originals himself, but at least one of the top DJs at the time used to same studio, and the owner used to tape all the tracks he had copied, and offer them to Pete next time he went up. This would ensure a good supply of biggies.

Both Pete & Keith also used to sell originals as well, and I've just dug out a couple of old Black Musics with the classified section. I don't know about any of the other advertisers apart from the 2 Ormskirk lads, but there are a lot of "top" records being adbvertised.

By the way, the only EMI I ever had was in mid 73 and it was Butch baker "Workin' At The Go Go" B/W Promatics "Sugar Pie Honey"

Paul

Edited August 8, 2007 by Paul r

[Ady Croasdell]

Definately showing your age with 'sounds' there Ady....though it does sound better than 'tuneage' ... the first emi disc I came across was at a mates house in Burnley sometime in the late 60s.....68/69 no later as I had left Burnley early 1970....it was The Artistics "I'm Gonna Miss You"/Blendells" La La La La La... both being popular plays down the Wheel at the time......we definately thought it a bit special and a pretty cool thing to have at the time.

Derek.

Well that's way earlier than the London cut ones (a little place off denmark st, the old Tin Pan Alley) so it's odd that I remember them being such a novelty. Either way they were considered almost as good as the real thing back then; you could advertise 'Times A Wasting' at your dance (see my recent treatise in Northern Monsters!) and not many would care what label it was on.

[Guest mobbsy]

log on to soulsurviver.uk look for link Tonys emidisc machine.

[Simsy]

[Guest Dante]

Further to what Pete S said about the Ormskirk connection, the two main people involved actually worked separately. and were always threatened by Frank Elson from Blues & Soul with "writs". I don't know if anything actually happened. I did go with one of them(who I shall call Pete ) to a recording studio in Carnforth where he would get a 4 track EMI done for about £1.25. He used to provide a lot of originals himself, but at least one of the top DJs at the time used to same studio, and the owner used to tape all the tracks he had copied, and offer them to Pete next time he went up. This would ensure a good supply of biggies.

Both Pete & Keith also used to sell originals as well, and I've just dug out a couple of old Black Musics with the classified section. I don't know about any of the other advertisers apart from the 2 Ormskirk lads, but there are a lot of "top" records being adbvertised.

By the way, the only EMI I ever had was in mid 73 and it was Butch baker "Workin' At The Go Go" B/W Promatics "Sugar Pie Honey"

Paul

"The number one Afro-Westindian soul dating club" TOP! hahahaha

[Catriona]

log on to soulsurviver.uk look for link Tonys emidisc machine.

That s the one

https://the-soulsurvivor.co.uk/Emidisc%20cu...20kettering.htm

Oh the crap Mr Warot has got in his flat!!!!!!!!!

[Ady Croasdell]

There are undoubtedly proper original release EMI Discs, I have several and that Garnet Mimms looks genuine but you'd need to know some of the history of the disc before you could authenticate it.

[Barry]

I remember a certain mega star dj offering me an EMI of 'When He's Not Around' for £150.00 at Rotherham - I may have been young but I wasn't stupid.

[Peter99]

I remember a certain mega star dj offering me an EMI of 'When He's Not Around' for £150.00 at Rotherham - I may have been young but I wasn't stupid.

Mega star DJ Barry - who was that then?

[Pete S]

The earliest privately-cut Emi I ever saw were Bill Blacks Combo - Josephine b/w a Capitols track which I can't even remember the name of (but wasn't on a uk 45) and 6 By 6 - Earl Van Dyke

[Barry]

Mega star DJ Barry - who was that then?

Richard.

[Barry]

Richard.

Alledgedly.

[Peter99]

Alledgedly.

And without prejudice of course!

[Barry]

And without prejudice of course!

Thanks.

[timthemod]

that Darrell Banks also looks authentic, maybe because it's in it's London sleeve! There are lots of UK 60's EMIDISCS that are genuine, Soul, Beat, Pop, Folk etc. Seems that the track titles give some indication whether they are possibly genuine. If you have two titles by different N Soul artists that are completely unrelated on their original labels it's a good starting point.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

The earliest privately-cut Emi I ever saw were Bill Blacks Combo - Josephine b/w a Capitols track which I can't even remember the name of (but wasn't on a uk 45) and 6 By 6 - Earl Van Dyke

First specially-created EMI that I ever saw played out at a dance was Tony Jebb's 'copy' of Robert Banks' "A Mighty Good Way", for a brief while his closing record at the Mecca. Must have been around October '71 or thereabouts.

I've no doubt that there were others being used for Dj'ing at around the same time, this just happens to be the first time I saw one being played instead of a 'real' 45...

[Sean Hampsey]

I've got the same "Its Been Such A Long way Home" Acetate / Emidisc as you have shown, except on mine it credits The Enchanters in the same type.

Got loads of em... proper (and otherwise!)

[Pete Morgan]

EMIdisc was merely a brand name, like TDK is a brand name for tapes, for instance. EMI themselves had nothing to do with their creation beyond originating the EMIdisc acetates - which were widely used in the record industry at that time, not just for the cutting of northern bootlegs.

[Pete S]

that Darrell Banks also looks authentic, maybe because it's in it's London sleeve! There are lots of UK 60's EMIDISCS that are genuine, Soul, Beat, Pop, Folk etc. Seems that the track titles give some indication whether they are possibly genuine. If you have two titles by different N Soul artists that are completely unrelated on their original labels it's a good starting point.

I think the London sleeve is wrong. I think it's an acetate for the Stateside release, as it's on an Emidisc and Decca/London had their own in-house acetate labels. Though the first Stateside demos mis-spelt the title as Open The Door Of Your Heart.

[Pete Morgan]

The earliest privately-cut Emi I ever saw were Bill Blacks Combo - Josephine b/w a Capitols track which I can't even remember the name of (but wasn't on a uk 45) and 6 By 6 - Earl Van Dyke

[TOAD]

VESTEX DISC CUTTER

[spot]

If I'm not mistaken Neil Jones did a write up in one of the last N.Souls explaining totally how this type of disc was made, a proper anoraks piece if I remember & running for 2 pages.

Spot.

[macca]

the chap in kettering's regent street was derek. it was an electrical suppliers shop if I remember well. the cutting machine was out back. he just shoved a dog-eared typed list in my hand & told me to choose, all very hasty.

I had the twans, billy arnell & betty fikes cut on the spot & they sounded great to my young ears.

& talking of emi-disc handwritten titles. john vincent's handwriting is very stylised. I bought an emidisc of yvonne vernee/gems (burning bush) off him for a fiver in 1979. the label was red though. 10 minutes later, very 'enthusiastic', I went back & bought his still covered up 'milton wright band - downtown' for a tenner. I still love the sound to this day...

Edited August 8, 2007 by macca

[Ady Croasdell]

The earliest privately-cut Emi I ever saw were Bill Blacks Combo - Josephine b/w a Capitols track which I can't even remember the name of (but wasn't on a uk 45) and 6 By 6 - Earl Van Dyke

I was given and still have a Homer Banks -Hooked on love emi disc...must have been prior to the uk release ? otherwise why bother ?

pete m

I remember my mate Mick Humphries paying £4 for it at the Lantern All Nighter in Market Harborough around 1970, that was a fortune then, nearly a weeks wages and the EMI would have been a cheaper option. The record collecting scene wasn't at all developed even a UK issue from 4 years before was very tough to find. There were only a hand full of occasional dealers and only one or two people travelling to the States.

[Chris L]

The ones cut in London in the early 70s, which I'm pretty sure were the first on the scene as no-one up North seemed to know where to get them done, were at one point considered almost as good to own as the original. Certain dealers would sell the original to a Northern DJ, not letting him know they'd done it and felt like they had got one over on the buyer in the deal. Big records were called "Sounds" and if you had the "Sound" it didn't make much difference what label it was. A bootleg was worth the same as an original once it was pressed.

I remember them being done in London in 1972, I guess slander stops us from naming names, however let's just say they used to go the Hampstead Birds Nest of a thursday night. Where are they now ? Well one of 'em still hangs round the NS scene, the other is a retired record dealer, one is in prison (allegedly) and the last one lives abroad. I have to own up and say I paid £5 for a Rose Batiste Hit & Run EMIdisc from one of them. Once people realised how easy it was to get them made they became quite commonplace. The real Northern Soul historians/heroes were the guys working for major record labels who somehow got some cracking tunes released. One in particular I consider to be akin to sainthood (no, not Godin or even John Abbey, although they were supermen et al).

[Crumb]

I have in storage a Emi 78 rpm recording machine in Wales which i bought as a young lad, It was just a means at the time to record sound etc...it came when i bought it with 16" blank discs! as well as the standard 10" size....i was told the 16 inch were for transcript or for recording news ., weddings etc...the old duck i bought the equipment off told me they used it for recording weddings and school eisteddfods etc.

pete m

I remember John Scouse playing me a 78rpm Emi of James Coit, sound quality was crap but I suppose it was taped at Wigan originally.