Prices - What The Hell Is Going On?

[Marc Forrest]

Chalky I agree with Dave - it was just before I moved back here that everyone started asking about it - 6 years - not saying it wasn't played before that but not to this degree

I have a tape from ´93 where it was still a c/up. The last one went in mint minus condition two weeks ago for about the equivalent of 7/800 UKP thru ebay...very cheap compared with recent prices for this item. And I agree with what others said, if it would have been not that rare over the last five years there would have been much more copies up for sale.

On the other aspect(s) of prices going down..I am sure no prophet but I said it on several occasions years before that the time will soon come (now it`s here!) that we will have three categories of records.

1. the sheer amount of 45s under about 100 UKP

For these the market it vanishing more and more from day to day. the simple reason for that is that most of us have or had these 45s and simply don`t need or don´t want to buy these classic collection builders from days gone by with the odd exception (tune of the week/month etc..). As the price hike of especially the last seven / nine years hold many willing people back from starting seriously collecting Rare Soul obviously there are now near to none new collectors who could be the now needed market for these 45s. The very same happened with the Blues, Doo Wop and Rockabilly market years and years ago. We need to realize (if not already done) that the Rare Soul scene is a scene where the average age is nowadays around 45 years plus...and who hasn`t got started to collect already is very much unlikely to do so in the next coming years..

Here the Market already has dictated the new pricing. You can buy a Darrel Banks "Our Love" every day on ebay for 10 USD...

2. the classic or big known oldies between say 100 and 500 UKP

Here you have a market these days where supply and demand really still dictate the price situation...On one hand 45s like "The Chase Is On" or "Not Too Young To Fall In Love" for example. Easy to sell (even at an inflated price) due to demand because of reactivation.

But on the other hand take all the Dena Barnes and Liz Verdi´s of this world and try to sell them at their once highest (book) prices. But don`t get too frustrated please.

In general you can already foresee here the same development as above although the market is going "down" much much slower...a "sideward moving market" is how a German economist would call this and most responsible for this are (as already stated) we...the collectors and DJ`s who still (!) buy.

3. the big mega rare or "monster" items from 500 upwards

Here you find a market that is having 45s that still can reach new highs...but can also drop easily and fast. Just take the recent Angela Davis topic to see what I mean. And indeed Angela Davis is a good example...bought by one of the big DJ`s of this beloved scene who in the end had one contrahent in the auction (I bet another big DJ). And I`ll bet again and this time with anyone that if that other bidder will have secured a copy of Angela Davis this won´t reach such a high amount again anywhere. And that picture explains this market perfectly: When all the "big " collectors and DJ`s who want and can afford have finally secured that record in question the price is sure to drop. To see what I mean try to sell a Leo Price on Up /Down these days at a grand and tell me how you succeeded...

This market I believe is still the strongest or lets say most constant but it depends very much on the 45 in question wether price is going up or down. Once all "gold card" customers have been served there is noone left to eat the soup...

Bon appetit!

Marc

Edited July 18, 2007 by Marc Forrest

[Guest Stuart T]

He also promised to sell me back everything I ever sold him at the prices I sold him them for though he probably doesn't remember telling me that

Tell you what pete, I really am getting really forgetful these days. Remind me again, who are you again?

I bet you bought my bleedin' Blue Jays 'an all!

Mine came off "Samurai Dave" Frynn, remember him delivering it to the Galleon in Greenwich, had never seen him in a pub before. Some floozy at the next table tried to chat him up He was supposed to sell me a Cody Black dead cheap too but I think he had realised that it was worth a bit more than he wanted and claimed Mrs F had decided it was her favourite record , it was rare to get a bargain off Frynny back then, these days he gives records away!

[Chalky]

I have a tape from ´93 where it was still a c/up.

Marc

who was the tape off Marc? Don't ever remember this being covered

[Pete S]

Like I said earlier, I reckon you missed a zero off £40, I doubt very much unless whoever was selling was totally clueless

It was probably me!

[Sebastian]

But on the other hand take all the Dena Barnes and Liz Verdi´s of this world and try to sell them at their once highest (book) prices. But don`t get too frustrated please.

Sorry for drifting off-topic... but if anyone has got a cheap copy of the Liz Verdi 45 for sale, please let me know. I don't mind if the "Think It Over" side is unplayable as long as the flipside plays great. Thanks in advance.

[Marc Forrest]

who was the tape off Marc? Don't ever remember this being covered

Hi Chalky, that tape was done by Paul McNamara back in late 1992 after he already had gone back to the UK.

[Guest]

its just about how much money you have to spend!

obviously all the well off boys have already got copys of paris blues! all the skint boys would love it but cant even afford the 125 ukps for it at the moment?

Me...................I am waiting for a big cash injection this week......and if no rich boy beats me to it..........I am gonna buy the mis-press of Tony Galla off Craig Moerer next week................

Some records go up in value ....... some go down.........................if your well off you dont give a shit!!!!!

now pass me that bottle of cristal and that mirror!!!!!

Edited July 18, 2007 by mossy

[paultp]

its just about how much money you have to spend!

obviously all the well off boys have already got copys of paris blues! all the skint boys would love it but cant even afford the 125 ukps for it at the moment?

Me...................I am waiting for a big cash injection this week......and if no rich boy beats me to it..........I am gonna buy the mis-press of Tony Galla off Craig Moerer next week................

Some records go up in value ....... some go down.........................if your well off you dont give a shit!!!!!

now pass me that bottle of cristal and that mirror!!!!!

I think this reply is closest to the mark, or at least closest to what I think so it must be right

If you have plenty of dosh you can have any record you want providing it comes up for sale/auction; what's 5 grand if you have a million? But I don't think there are too many people in that situation I think peer pressure has forced people to go out on a limb to raise funds for records.

The last few years record prices have gone very silly although the cheaper things seem to have stayed around the same. My theory is that a number of people have seen the price of their house rise in a similarly silly way over the same period of time and have been seduced into "releasing equity" as the loan companies sweetly call it. If you release 50 grand from your house to spend on records you are not going to drop it on copies of The Snake, you are going to go after the accepted big money records. If only a handful of people do this or cane their credit cards or whatever this pushes up the price of records.

Once you have spent your "released equity" it soon becomes clear that you have to carry on paying so you can't buy any more records and if interest rates rise then you have to increase your payments. This removes a number of big money record buyers from the market so prices will fall.

Its just a theory but I have heard all sorts of silly stories about people taking out loans for buying records. Personally I think people must be mad to fund a hobby in this way. I've also been told that "You'll never lose money buying records" which again is obviously daft! I buy a record cos I like it or because I believe I can sell it at a profit immediately to help fund a purchase. I buy my records by buying and selling and also trading. I don't touch any hard earned any more, which is probably why I never bid enough to buy a copy of The Parisians

Its all good fun though and hopefully higher interest rates will squeeze those who have lashed out on records for investment so they all have to unload flooding the market with great records at bargain prices

Cheers

Paul

[Benji]

Hi Chalky, that tape was done by Paul McNamara back in late 1992 after he already had gone back to the UK.

marc, you're close but off by about a year. it was around late 93/early 94 when paul got his copy of the vanguards (we were good mates back then), he covered it as by the dells, approriate name i think

there's a nice story about him getting the vanguards 45 but won't bore you guys with it unless you want me to

[Dave Rimmer]

what one guy making a mistake with one copy ?

or loads of copies from loads of sources. I would have been looking for this 45 around that time and never saw it for this price ?

who had it ?

Johnny Weston, John Mills and Bob Hinsley all had copies for around that sort of price five years ago, ( Certainly less than £100 with two of them), and that's just the three I know so there must have been others.

Edited July 19, 2007 by Dave Rimmer

[Guest vinylvixen]

Johnny Weston and John Mills all had copies for around that sort of price five years ago

I can vouch for that....John W had a copy when he dj'd at TOS and in typical Weston-speak said 'you should be able to get a copy quite cheaply, Jo - I did - and John Mills got one too'.....within seconds, the soul bush telegraph got wind of his words and the price rocketted to £500 John Weston ALWAYS gets things cheaply ahead of the trendsetters. My theory is that he sold his soul to the Devil in the pale moonlight at the crossroads of Balsall Heath Jo

[Chalky]

marc, you're close but off by about a year. it was around late 93/early 94 when paul got his copy of the vanguards (we were good mates back then), he covered it as by the dells, approriate name i think

there's a nice story about him getting the vanguards 45 but won't bore you guys with it unless you want me to

can't think why it was covered unless for the benefit of the scene returnees around that time. It was already known and a big spin at nighters.

[Benji]

can't think why it was covered unless for the benefit of the scene returnees around that time. It was already known and a big spin at nighters.

chalky, you're sure you're not wrong by approx. a decade?

back in 1993/1994 there weren't that many returnees were there? back then me and paul were both swapping tapes with a quite a few UK collectors and none of them knew the vanguards (paul also picked up their other rarity and that one was covered as by the dells too).

[Chalky]

chalky, you're sure you're not wrong by approx. a decade?

back in 1993/1994 there weren't that many returnees were there? back then me and paul were both swapping tapes with a quite a few UK collectors and none of them knew the vanguards (paul also picked up their other rarity and that one was covered as by the dells too).

I've only ever known it as the Vanguards, can't remember it ever being covered up and certainly known the record since the 80's, as have others. It's already been mentioned as a £15 front page focus for Rod Dearlove back in the mid 80's. Then again I don't think I heard Paul DJ back then although I think I might have that tape somewhere, certainly a couple kicking about from Paul as I remembner doing the odd tape swap but haven't a clue what is on them.

Edited July 19, 2007 by chalky

[Dylan]

chalky, you're sure you're not wrong by approx. a decade?

back in 1993/1994 there weren't that many returnees were there? back then me and paul were both swapping tapes with a quite a few UK collectors and none of them knew the vanguards (paul also picked up their other rarity and that one was covered as by the dells too).

Other ?

is that one of the shirley releases or the indie one.

seen a few copies of the indie release on ebay lately.

[Guest]

I've only ever known it as the Vanguards, can't remember it ever being covered up and certainly known the record since the 80's, as have others. It's already been mentioned as a £15 front page focus for Rod Dearlove back in the mid 80's. Then again I don't think I heard Paul DJ back then although I think I might have that tape somewhere, certainly a couple kicking about from Paul as I remembner doing the odd tape swap but haven't a clue what is on them.

I am sure it has been known to some people since the dawn of time, but when it went big around 2002/2003 a lot of fairly knowledgable people who have been on the scene many years did not know it. It was more or less a new sound to a lot of people then, if not to the vast majority of the scene. Some big name DJ's got it around then and they did not have it or know it before then. John Weston, John Mills and a few others were very lucky and got it cheap just before it really took off.

[Guest]

Don't worry. It found a good home.

£700 I thought that was the Traditions (which is exactly the same isn't it?).

The Parisians and the Traditions are two different versions. I have seen more copies of the Parisians but it seems more in-demand than the Traditions, perhaps because there are more copies around, and it has been getting more spins and exposure. I personally don't like either version that much.

[Chalky]

I am sure it has been known to some people since the dawn of time, but when it went big around 2002/2003 a lot of fairly knowledgable people who have been on the scene many years did not know it. It was more or less a new sound to a lot of people then, if not to the vast majority of the scene. Some big name DJ's got it around then and they did not have it or know it before then. John Weston, John Mills and a few others were very lucky and got it cheap just before it really took off.

Well the nighter scene knew it before then, Butch and others already mentioned had been playing it a good while, long before some mentioned in these pages.

Edited July 20, 2007 by chalky

[Guest]

Well the nighter scene knew it before then, Butch and others already mentioned had been playing it a good while, long before some mentioned in these pages.

Out of historic curiosity, so to say, when, where and who? I am not doubting you but it must have been a fairly esoteric segment of the scene where it was played for years since so many people, from various regions and scene backgrounds, did not really know it until it went big around 2002/2003. Perhaps a bit like Joseph Webster that was played many years ago and was known to some people, but not widely known until it went really big a few years back?