Prices - What The Hell Is Going On?

[Pete S]

Can't get my head round this. I just bought a Paris Blues Mala stock copy off Ebay for £125. I was the only bidder. A year ago this record would have gone for £300. It's "in the book" at £350. What on earth is happening?

(p.s. FOR SALE - TONY MIDDLETON - PARIS BLUES - MALA ISSUE £225 )

[Pete S]

And to add to that, I just won a record which books at £300 for less than £20! Never heard it but if it says the words A SOLID HITBOUND PRODUCTION on the label it'll do for me..

[Pete S]

Can't get my head round this. I just bought a Paris Blues Mala stock copy off Ebay for £125. I was the only bidder. A year ago this record would have gone for £300. It's "in the book" at £350. What on earth is happening?

(p.s. FOR SALE - TONY MIDDLETON - PARIS BLUES - MALA ISSUE £225 )

no seriously, whats going on, looks like the bottom has finally dropped out of the market as far as I can see.

John Manship need not reply to tell us he's never been busier

[Guest Bogue]

Can't get my head round this. I just bought a Paris Blues Mala stock copy off Ebay for £125. I was the only bidder. A year ago this record would have gone for £300. It's "in the book" at £350. What on earth is happening?

(p.s. FOR SALE - TONY MIDDLETON - PARIS BLUES - MALA ISSUE £225 )

You mean you bought that one with the large crack across half the record ? didn't you read the bit after the shipping notes ?

[Guest]

And to add to that, I just won a record which books at £300 for less than £20! Never heard it but if it says the words A SOLID HITBOUND PRODUCTION on the label it'll do for me..

Had an issue of this some time ago and really struggled to sell it. Think I got £60 for it in the end (label was damaged though). From memory it's pretty weak but still a nice Detroit collectors item.

Adam.

[Mark Bicknell]

Can't get my head round this. I just bought a Paris Blues Mala stock copy off Ebay for £125. I was the only bidder. A year ago this record would have gone for £300. It's "in the book" at £350. What on earth is happening?

(p.s. FOR SALE - TONY MIDDLETON - PARIS BLUES - MALA ISSUE £225 )

Hard one to call this Pete, could it not perhaps be the mass volume of records for sale now perhaps out number the amount of collectors or people that want them? or the vast number of what we once thought were rare records turning up in mass via Ebay etc. a case of perhaps supply overtaking demand? or simply maybe the case that prices are getting back to a more realistic state and infact some of todays prices are the true value based on how many copies are out there rather than on demand or panic buying with the must own it at whatever the price ethic? i feel that there can sometimes be a false economy on some records which has been proved time and time again in recent years.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Bogue]

Hard one to call this Pete, could it not perhaps be the mass volume of records for sale now perhaps out number the amount of collectors or people that want them? or the vast number of what we once thought were rare records turning up in mass via Ebay etc. a case of perhaps supply overtaking demand? or simply maybe the case that prices are getting back to a more realistic state and infact some of todays prices are the true value based on how many copies are out there rather than on demand or panic buying with the must own it at whatever the price ethic? i feel that there can sometimes be a false economy on some records which has been proved time and time again in recent years.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Or maybe the bloody Gloater was just lucky

[Pete S]

You mean you bought that one with the large crack across half the record ? didn't you read the bit after the shipping notes ?

You jizzbag, you had me going there for a minute and I actually went and looked!

[kevinsoulman]

And to add to that, I just won a record which books at £300 for less than £20! Never heard it but if it says the words A SOLID HITBOUND PRODUCTION on the label it'll do for me..

bargain £300 on manshipp

kev

[Guest Bogue]

You jizzbag, you had me going there for a minute and I actually went and looked!

[Pete S]

Had an issue of this some time ago and really struggled to sell it. Think I got £60 for it in the end (label was damaged though). From memory it's pretty weak but still a nice Detroit collectors item.

Adam.

Yeah but £15? Better than a poke in the eye...

[Guest]

Yeah but £15? Better than a poke in the eye...

True...not denying you got it for a bargain price

[Guest gordon russell]

yeah only bloody cheap til l want the fcuker

[Guest]

Can't get my head round this. I just bought a Paris Blues Mala stock copy off Ebay for £125. I was the only bidder. A year ago this record would have gone for £300. It's "in the book" at £350. What on earth is happening?

(p.s. FOR SALE - TONY MIDDLETON - PARIS BLUES - MALA ISSUE £225 )

i would take a guess that money is a bit scarce at the moment . But it wont be for long............Gordon Brown will get us rocking!

[45cellar]

Can't get my head round this. I just bought a Paris Blues Mala stock copy off Ebay for £125. I was the only bidder. A year ago this record would have gone for £300. It's "in the book" at £350. What on earth is happening?

(p.s. FOR SALE - TONY MIDDLETON - PARIS BLUES - MALA ISSUE £225 )

It looks like it had been on sale a few days before >>> LINK <<< & NO BIDDERS

Well done Pete, nice one.

It does make you wonder wwhat is going on though.

Edited July 16, 2007 by 45cellar

[Baz Atkinson]

A NUMBER OF THINGS I THINK[iNTEREST RATES ]PERHAPS?THE LIKES OF THE REALLY BIG TUNES WILL ALWAYS ACHIEVE THE BOOK ,ITS THE STUFF 400 QUID AND UNDER WHERE THE GREY AREA IS,I THINK THAT PEOPLE SEEM MORE WILLING TO ACCEPT A DEAL THESE DAYS.THE MARKET ALWAYS ADJUSTS TO ITSELF,IVE JUST GOT THE EMBRACEABLES FOR 21US ON A VG BUT PLAYS FINE,ED CROOK FOR 60US ,ETC.

EBAY HAS DEFINETLY LEVELLED OUT DUE TO FEES ETC,ANOTHER FACTOR PERHAPS IS AGE,PERHAPS ALOT OF THE OLDER CREW HAVE ONE EYE ON RETIREMENT LOL.

BAZ A.

[Dylan]

I think a lot of people with the knowledge about what is rare and what isn't have had there time in this game and are happy now to sit on what collections they put together in the past.

I'm relatively new to this game and do still enjoy trying to find and buy records but I do think less and less people are actually wanting to own the 45s now a days. The example Pete has given must prove this and the low number of bidders on genuine rare 45s on ebay also proves it.

But i've seen that just by being patient the things you want do turn up eventually at prices you are prepared to pay.

But on the other hand there are occasional 45s that defy logic and just go higher and higher in value with no particular reason.

[John Reed]

I've spoken to a few dealers recently, who have said that apart from really rare/in-demand records, other records are not shifting as a lot of people already have them in their collections

One thing that has surprised me after reading the thread on Luther Ingram - HIB, is how many releases this had? demo's/Issues/Vinyl/Styreen/east coast/west coast. How many were pressed?

I know this is slightly off topic, but Paul Mooney and Pete Smith both commented on an amount of 3,000 demo's pressed for radio stations in the 60's. Again how rare is rare?

Steve Plumb has had Jeater - Wherever You Are on his site for quite a while and it's slowly gone down in price over the months (£30 surely some one wants it for that price?), this is a rare record. I don't know what quanty Steve has this in, but I wouldn't have thought much (I could be wrong). This was deemed rare enough/In-demand to warrant inclusion in one of John Manships Auctions (don't know where it finished though), but nobody wants it.

Maybe we are in a situation, where there are actually more "rare" records in circulation than people who want them? This is in line with the general supply/demand theory, the price drops to a level that will attract buyers.

How many collector are there globally? Looking at the subscribers on SS (4,064), EMS (600), Soul Talk (369). That totals 5,033 users (that includes multiple users). Add around another say 5,000 for non UK centric buyers and people who don't want to be on these forums, which potentially brings the record buying public to about 10,000 people globally (my guess).

After speaking to John Anderson about Innervision a few months ago, he told me that he got 1,000 as a new release (all sold), which got me thinking, if he was the only distributor (possibly not), and there are about 10,000 collectors globally, that means that 1 in 10 people own it.

Bobby Reed - Time is right, this has got to have been listed on ebay at least every fortnight over the last year, is this the same copy or is there a steady flow coming through. This seems to me to be a record who's price possibley doesn't compare to its rarity.

Interest rates do also play a part, with the MPC looking to raise another 25bp's later this year, it will affect buying. How many people only use disposible income to buy records?

There have been quite a few threads on the lack of "new blood" on the (UK) scene and people giving up. If there are no new buyers again the price will drop.

Some dealers do drop their prices, but it seems that other dealers don't, with these records availiable on their sites for months. This is similar for price guides, if a record is bought for less its considered a bargain rather than the true price. Weve all paid over the odds for a record from time to time, but that's all part of an open market.

As with all markets there are peaks and troughs, with NS seeing continual growth (above inflation) over the last (at least) 10 years. Maybe this is a time for a correction? Weve also seen a lot of comments on the values in price guides being too high, which is possibly giving sellers the wrong impression as to what they'll get for it. Can anyone tell me if any record has gone down in subsequesnt price guides?

[Pete S]

I've spoken to a few dealers recently, who have said that apart from really rare/in-demand records, other records are not shifting as a lot of people already have them in their collections

Bobby Reed - Time is right, this has got to have been listed on ebay at least every fortnight over the last year, is this the same copy or is there a steady flow coming through. This seems to me to be a record who's price possibley doesn't compare to its rarity.

Well most people will know where these came from, there must have been a few hundred found, in fact I can point you to a US website where you have been able to buy this at a set sale price for 2 years now and as soon as one is sold, they replace it with another...

[Guest]

My feeling is that many dealers have priced a lot of collectors out of the market.

I can understand genuinely rare records commanding a good price, but when you see for instance very common 70's philly singles listed at £15+, bog standard motown releases at similar prices it's easy to see why some people just say f*ck it and buy cd's instead.

Derek

[Guest Dan]

there've been threads going for ages about this (here's one i started in march last year: The Great Price Debate)

some really in demand records will always sell, the rest are getting cheaper - and a good thing too!

[good angel]

The bog standard record is £15 now,but why? some of these records in the 70s, was 30p and one or two for 10p.

Kev.

[Simsy]

Dunno about this debate when it concerns an out of vogue record like Paris Blues.

I saw that going through and thought it looked cheap. Mentioned it to a mate, "old hat innit" - his response.

Tony Galla went for the right money didn't it ..?

[KevH]

for every bargain you get ,you pay the price on the next sound,always happened,swings and roundabouts.

Sometimes its nice to pick up a record thats out of vogue.

Price guides are only "guides",and you can pick up a bargain depending on who you know, not what you know .Well done on the Paris Blues Pete.

................225 you say?

[Guest Bogue]

for every bargain you get ,you pay the price on the next sound,always happened,swings and roundabouts.

Sometimes its nice to pick up a record thats out of vogue.

Price guides are only "guides",and you can pick up a bargain depending on who you know, not what you know .Well done on the Paris Blues Pete.

................225 you say?

Agree Kev.

I accept things are cooling a bit, but sometimes it's just being in the right place at the right time. For instance, in the last month i was beaten twice on two seperate 'Wally Cox' Scepter South American issues at $90, last night i get one for $30something.

With it being Summer too which cuts peoples buying power a bit I think Pete was just lucky myself (nice one ). Be interesting to see what the next one that comes up goes for.

[Chalky]

I don't think the bottom has dropped out, far from it. Still see plenty of stuff sold for daft money that has me shaking my head in disbelief at times. Maybe collectors wised up or woken up and and now doing their homework a bit more before parting with their money.

Maybe they are leaving the so called classics alone as they do crop up on a regular basis for what seems like an inflated price and maybe looking for something a little less known, obscure or underplayed.

[Chalky]

dunno about £300 a year ago Pete, been a fair few Paris Blues on ebay last couple years, issues and demos, only 250 in 2004, 200 in 2006. One up there now for sale (demo) currently $200 with day to go.

[Pete S]

for every bargain you get ,you pay the price on the next sound,always happened,swings and roundabouts.

Sometimes its nice to pick up a record thats out of vogue.

Price guides are only "guides",and you can pick up a bargain depending on who you know, not what you know .Well done on the Paris Blues Pete.

................225 you say?

225 represents 100 quid profit and I would be happy with that even if it is worth 300. I've never been greedy!

[Pete S]

Dunno about this debate when it concerns an out of vogue record like Paris Blues.

I saw that going through and thought it looked cheap. Mentioned it to a mate, "old hat innit" - his response.

Tony Galla went for the right money didn't it ..?

But Tony Galla's been played for over 20 years as well!

[Chalky]

Dunno about this debate when it concerns an out of vogue record like Paris Blues.

I saw that going through and thought it looked cheap. Mentioned it to a mate, "old hat innit" - his response.

Tony Galla went for the right money didn't it ..?

what did the Tony Galla go for? was it the yellow and blue mentioned elsewhere?

[Simsy]

what did the Tony Galla go for? was it the yellow and blue mentioned elsewhere?

£422 (yellow and blue label).

[Chalky]

£422 (yellow and blue label).

I wouldn't pay £400 + for it, seen more yellow and blue the last year or so than any other release.

[Guest Bearsy]

what did the Tony Galla go for? was it the yellow and blue mentioned elsewhere?

£422 yellow and blue copy e+

oops sorry i didnt see Simsy answer

Edited July 16, 2007 by Bearsy

[Dylan]

There are probably a big number of potential soul colectors out there but these prices can't help the situation.

If the arse ever does fall out the market i'll be doing all I can to hoover stuff up but I may have a long wait or alternatively it may never happen.

I've read a lot of threads on this forum about 45s that are being listed for big money that are not rare but i've still not witnessed anybody trying to cut these sellers out the market by dropping prices.

[Guest gordon russell]

Dunno about this debate when it concerns an out of vogue record like Paris Blues.

I saw that going through and thought it looked cheap. Mentioned it to a mate, "old hat innit" - his response.

Tony Galla went for the right money didn't it ..?

buy a record cause you love the thing .....not cause its in fashion surely ..if you get atune you've been after for an age and it's cheaper than the going rate...far as i'm concerned GREAT...Also remember john's guide is just that a guide

[Simsy]

buy a record cause you love the thing .....not cause its in fashion surely ..if you get atune you've been after for an age and it's cheaper than the going rate...far as i'm concerned GREAT...Also remember john's guide is just that a guide

Erm I know what you're trying to say. Maybe folk just a bit off put by a hammered oldie. Nothing more than that really, no big mystery.

With you on the guide thing. Though I hadn't forgotten.

[Pete S]

I've read a lot of threads on this forum about 45s that are being listed for big money that are not rare but i've still not witnessed anybody trying to cut these sellers out the market by dropping prices.

You're kidding! I undercut everyone...I mean, everyone!

[Guest SteveSnow]

You're kidding! I undercut everyone...I mean, everyone!

great avatar Pete

took me a few seconds to drag the guy's name out of the back of the old grey matter - made me laugh anyway

Edited July 16, 2007 by SteveSnow

[Guest Bearsy]

isnt the price of anything dictated by the buyer, its only worth what someone is willing to pay for it etc etc, some things can go for more than expected but if 2 people or more want the same thing at the same time its then when you want to be the seller, ive recently sold a few records on ebay and they didnt go for what i was hoping but then a few things went for more than i expected so in the end it all averaged out.

[Guest in town Mikey]

Being the economics stats man that I am......

Another 0.25% interest raise again a short while ago. Thats the 5th time isnt it, in 18 months? So maybe £120- £170 per month extra on mortgages not tied to a fixed interest.

Thats a hefty wedge out of a collectors buying power.

I imagine credit card interest is over 20% now too following these increases. So people are less able to hit the max, and go for the bigger tunes.

PLUS some prices are known to be crazy. And maybe when the first few Tangeers appeared on ebay for example there were 30 people in for it, now there are the same 30 people with multiple copies. So it should revert to being something like its true value.

[Pete S]

great avatar Pete

took me a few seconds to drag the guy's name out of the back of the old grey matter - made me laugh anyway

I couldn't believe when I was looking for it that there are loads and loads of websites set up in tribute to him! Taking the mick obviously..

[Rushden8]

When your lucky '' aint it lovely'' , bid on a Bobby Bennett v tone demo & underbidder had 2nd chance go . The japanese lad did not want it so for $140 got that great d/ sidder in vg++ . I paid 10 us postage and the dealer spent 28 us to post , this is when ebay is great. regards john in da sun

[Dylan]

When your lucky '' aint it lovely'' , bid on a Bobby Bennett v tone demo & underbidder had 2nd chance go . The japanese lad did not want it so for $140 got that great d/ sidder in vg++ . I paid 10 us postage and the dealer spent 28 us to post , this is when ebay is great. regards john in da sun

I must have missed this one , was it recently ?

[Steve Plumb]

I've spoken to a few dealers recently, who have said that apart from really rare/in-demand records, other records are not shifting as a lot of people already have them in their collections

Steve Plumb has had Jeater - Wherever You Are on his site for quite a while and it's slowly gone down in price over the months (£30 surely some one wants it for that price?), this is a rare record. I don't know what quanty Steve has this in, but I wouldn't have thought much (I could be wrong). This was deemed rare enough/In-demand to warrant inclusion in one of John Manships Auctions (don't know where it finished though), but nobody wants it.

Hi John

Yep, it's still there at £30 it's mint and i have only one copy!

The reason for this is simple - it's Deep Soul! There are virtually no serious Deep Soul collectors who don't have it!

Going back to Northern for another example...........I have had a Jackie Lee (ABC issue) on the site for a few months now. Sold it last week for £50.........started life at £100 I think, which was a tad over-priced I know BUT has been steadily reduced with each site update until it finally sold last week!

Personally, I'm of the 'Pete Smith' school of thinking............if it don't sell in a reasonable amount of time, it gets reduced (within reason) until it does sell! (Forgive me if i'm wrong for quoting you Pete but that's how i believe you operate too?)

Cheers

Steve

www.soulmusic.co.uk

[Guest vinylvixen]

jizzbag

Great name for a group, Pete as in Papa's got a brand new ......

Record prices are like house prices....they'll plateau soon and then wait for the crash. I predict around Christmas. Sell them all to me now to avoid being lumbered with surplus worthless vinyl Jo

Edited July 17, 2007 by vinylvixen

[Dylan]

You're kidding! I undercut everyone...I mean, everyone!

you don't undercut ebay

but I was happy to buy that oddballl 45 from you recently as your price was fair. You didn't try and squeeze for a few extra quid.

[Pete S]

Personally, I'm of the 'Pete Smith' school of thinking............if it don't sell in a reasonable amount of time, it gets reduced (within reason) until it does sell! (Forgive me if i'm wrong for quoting you Pete but that's how i believe you operate too?)

Absolutely - can't afford not to. Also because of financial restrictions I can only really but items I am pretty sure I can sell. This is getting harder though as some dead certs haven't sold.

[Dylan]

Hi John

Yep, it's still there at £30 it's mint and i have only one copy!

The reason for this is simple - it's Deep Soul! There are virtually no serious Deep Soul collectors who don't have it!

Going back to Northern for another example...........I have had a Jackie Lee (ABC issue) on the site for a few months now. Sold it last week for £50.........started life at £100 I think, which was a tad over-priced I know BUT has been steadily reduced with each site update until it finally sold last week!

Personally, I'm of the 'Pete Smith' school of thinking............if it don't sell in a reasonable amount of time, it gets reduced (within reason) until it does sell! (Forgive me if i'm wrong for quoting you Pete but that's how i believe you operate too?)

Cheers

Steve

www.soulmusic.co.uk

This reducing things slowly until they sell is a great approach. Prehaps not for you but for us buyers it gets to a point where things are bound to sell. I now check your site regulary because of this.

When I saw that LH&Memphis Sound for £30 I couldn't believe it and snapped it up.

Now I may be wrong but I always rated it a lot higher in vaue.

"House full of rooms" is great.

cheers for that one.

[Peter99]

I think prices remain very fragile

[Guest Ste Brazil]

There are probably a big number of potential soul colectors out there but these prices can't help the situation.

I know a lot of people who would collect but most are just put off by the prices, very common situation.

Ste.