Suspicion - Detroit Prophets / Originals

[Chalky]

Dont know if there were just 100 but it was very low three figures (200/300?). And it was £25 each back then.

Not sure Benji, didn't think it was 300 though but could be wrong and I thought it was £30?

[Guest]

The actual sound on the LP is not the best,i have to fiddle about on me sound machine for every track.

[Benji]

Not sure Benji, didn't think it was 300 though but could be wrong and I thought it was £30?

Have you got your copy at hand? If I remember correctly they were all numbered individually and stating the total number of copies pressed? And yes it was 25, that's what I paid for the first copy, got a good deal from Chris when I ordered a few more copies for my mates.

Ken, you're right. Sound quality not the best. It varied from track to track, so were ok, some really bad. As they apparently were taken off a C90 tape it doesn't surprise me

But what still puzzles me, why did they include Eddie Holland - Outside looking in? The only track previously issued. Was it so in demand back then?

[Tony Smith]

Have you got your copy at hand? If I remember correctly they were all numbered individually and stating the total number of copies pressed? And yes it was 25, that's what I paid for the first copy, got a good deal from Chris when I ordered a few more copies for my mates.

Ken, you're right. Sound quality not the best. It varied from track to track, so were ok, some really bad. As they apparently were taken off a C90 tape it doesn't surprise me

But what still puzzles me, why did they include Eddie Holland - Outside looking in? The only track previously issued. Was it so in demand back then?

Because it was big for the person who did the LP

[Pete S]

You got some then ?, you got em' in your bargain bin ? ..........not even worth the week tracking it down in me house.

Hardly likely to have "some" am I?

When I get it, which is fairly regularly, thats how much it is.

[Steve L]

Had an interesting conversation a while ago with one of the parties involved in this lp, not the previously unnamed person either.

He told me he still had a load left that had never been sold.

[Andy Rix]

Mr Shard

You might recall I borrowed all of your original cassettes ... the scans certainly include all I borrowed + possibly a rogue one from elsewhere .. these all date back to late 80's

Andy

[Guest]

Hardly likely to have "some" am I?

When I get it, which is fairly regularly, thats how much it is.

How many have you had since this topic started ?

Edited August 23, 2011 by ken

[Modernsoulsucks]

I'd forgot all about that Andy.

I do recognise and remember vast majority of the tracks although as I only had two C90 tapes I've no idea why you have enough listings there for five, albeit there is some duplication. I don't remember listings being typed out either. I assume you've done that then?

ROD

[Andy Rix]

I typed them

I can't recall how the tracks got duplicated across a number of cassettes but two of them will be direct copies of your originals... I just couldn't remember which out of the 5 !!

Andy

[Robbk]

I'd forgot all about that Andy.

I do recognise and remember vast majority of the tracks although as I only had two C90 tapes I've no idea why you have enough listings there for five, albeit there is some duplication. I don't remember listings being typed out either. I assume you've done that then?

ROD

I seem to remember your getting at least one or two more C90 tapes from me after the first 2. ALL those songs were recordings I had, and wanted to get to you. There are even non-Motown Detroit songs on a couple of those tapes (Royal Ravens, etc.) that were sent only because they had been on my tapes with mainly unreleased Motown, and it was simply easier just to run off the whole tapes, rather than edit them out.

[funkyfeet]

I'll try and dig my copy of the album out, It still has the inner track listing, I also have acetate of the Creations with the Temptations "Angel Doll" on the flip side.

[Modernsoulsucks]

I seem to remember your getting at least one or two more C90 tapes from me after the first 2. ALL those songs were recordings I had, and wanted to get to you. There are even non-Motown Detroit songs on a couple of those tapes (Royal Ravens, etc.) that were sent only because they had been on my tapes with mainly unreleased Motown, and it was simply easier just to run off the whole tapes, rather than edit them out.

Yes you're right Bob. I may have lost one and you replaced it sometime in the 90's but it was slightly altered. I know I cut Creations, Hattie Littles and Downbeats and used them once or twice when I occasionally did a spot in the 90's and after.

If I had them the first time around I don't know why I didn't use them then. I guess Creations sounds somewhat old and Downbeats a bit disjointed in parts for 1982.

ROD

[Guest uroffal]

Well i have one !! have you ?

Sadly no I haven't but now I know it's only worth £20 I'm not bothered

[Guest uroffal]

As mentioned I have a boot of Suspicion credited to the Monitors & pretty sure that it was the 1st boot available so probably originally played as by the Monitors, perhaps Rod can clear that up ? My tape bought from manship has the same track listing as the one mentioned by Uroffal.

Interesting, I don't think I've seen that boot crediting the Monitors, but then my memory is very shakey so might have just forgotten it. My tape was copied by a mate from his copy so sounds as though it must've been a Manship one like yours.

[Chalky]

Some info about the Advance boots from John Manship in this topic

[Guest uroffal]

Cheers Chalky. This credits Advance 101 as the Prophets, but SHS Dave's is credited to the Monitors (is it an Advance boot you have SHS Dave?)

[Guest uroffal]

Just to clarify.

Bob supplied me with two C90's of Motown stuff, some of which were cut and played at Stafford. Im pretty sure Bob you told me at the time "Suspicion" was by the Originals. It was covered as the Prophets. To be honest I have no idea what we covered the others as. Was "Love starved heart" JJ Barnes "It's killing me"?

ROD

Wasn't the Gladys Knight track played as Yvonne Vernee (I might have just made that up in my head though)?

[Tony Smith]

Wasn't the Gladys Knight track played as Yvonne Vernee (I might have just made that up in my head though)?

I remember different versions of the title, always remember it as Gladys and her voice is so distinctive....

[Guest uroffal]

I remember different versions of the title, always remember it as Gladys and her voice is so distinctive....

I made it up then - I'm think my mind has aged rapidly in the last year

[Robbk]

You could be right, Rod, that I told you that "Suspicion" was by The Originals. But, I think when you first heard it at my house, we still didn't know who it was. It was probably between that time and when I sent the tape to you that we discovered, from looking the song up in The Motown Recording Logs, that it had to be The Originals. I don't believe any other artist/group recorded that song (if i remember correctly).

I still cannot understand why they didn't release it. It would have been a smash hit.

[Sunnysoul]

You could be right, Rod, that I told you that "Suspicion" was by The Originals. But, I think when you first heard it at my house, we still didn't know who it was. It was probably between that time and when I sent the tape to you that we discovered, from looking the song up in The Motown Recording Logs, that it had to be The Originals. I don't believe any other artist/group recorded that song (if i remember correctly).

I still cannot understand why they didn't release it. It would have been a smash hit.

As with many of their other second tier acts like the Monitors, Spinners, Velvelettes, Contours etc and having just signed a male vocal group in the Isley Brothers who - at least initially Motown - were gearing to make one of their bigger vocal group acts, the Originals weren't a priority for Motown at that time in '66.

The Originals only became important to Motown when they decided to turn them into Motown's version of the 5th Dimension ...

[Sunnysoul]

You could be right, Rod, that I told you that "Suspicion" was by The Originals. But, I think when you first heard it at my house, we still didn't know who it was. It was probably between that time and when I sent the tape to you that we discovered, from looking the song up in The Motown Recording Logs, that it had to be The Originals. I don't believe any other artist/group recorded that song (if i remember correctly).

I still cannot understand why they didn't release it. It would have been a smash hit.

As with many of their other second tier acts like the Monitors, Spinners, Velvelettes, Contours etc and having just signed a male vocal group in the Isley Brothers who - at least initially - Motown were gearing to make one of their bigger vocal group acts, the Originals weren't a priority for Motown at that time in '66.

The Originals only became important to Motown when they decided to turn them into Motown's version of the 5th Dimension ...

[Robbk]

As with many of their other second tier acts like the Monitors, Spinners, Velvelettes, Contours etc and having just signed a male vocal group in the Isley Brothers who - at least initially - Motown were gearing to make one of their bigger vocal group acts, the Originals weren't a priority for Motown at that time in '66.

The Originals only became important to Motown when they decided to turn them into Motown's version of the 5th Dimension ...

The US public has no taste. I LOVE their version of "Good Night Irene".

That very same attitude is why we didn't get "Suspicion" onto the first (and sadly, the only) "From The Vaults" album. We were very lucky, after a lot of begging, to get a Spinners' and a Majestics' song on it (only after being forced to change The Majestics' name to Monitors, for customer recognition.

[Pete S]

Rod, was talking to someone yesterday who said you had some of these at very very late Wigan, because he bought an acetate from you there. So might surprise people that they are actually pre-Stafford.

[Tony Smith]

I made it up then - I'm think my mind has aged rapidly in the last year

Surely someone on here has some old echoes or BlackBeats with playlists containing these songs that'd narrow the dates down.

I remember Angel Doll being played as Edward Hamilton & Arabians, I got a cut of it off Ady Pountain with Lonely Lover on the flip.

[jocko]

Surely someone on here has some old echoes or BlackBeats with playlists containing these songs that'd narrow the dates down.

I remember Angel Doll being played as Edward Hamilton & Arabians, I got a cut of it off Ady Pountain with Lonely Lover on the flip.

Mr Smith, something you do not remember, shock horror!!

I am pretty sure Dave Withers played lots of thse at a Bernie Golding/Richard Searling Manchester Tiffanies all nighter that was fairly poorly attended, this was after Wigan but before I went to Stafford, can't remember however when the first inception of Stafford started and if Dave W was on in the early days.

Hope you are both well, just had another week in Londinium of all work and no play, definitely need to hook up soon.

[Guest Garry Huxley]

It came out of Motown on an acetate.

Here's a scan posted by Andy Rix couple of months ago...

reckon there's about 5 mixes of this.

I Had a 5" acetate which i bought at stafford from a top dj, I had to disable the auto pick up on my turntable to play it through, at the time of buying it,it was quite a new tune mine had the same flip as this one, played it out at wooden bridge guildford and packed the floor, Paid £10 for it sold for £??

I wonder who's got it now ???

[Sunnysoul]

I Had a 5" acetate which i bought at stafford from a top dj, I had to disable the auto pick up on my turntable to play it through, at the time of buying it,it was quite a new tune mine had the same flip as this one, played it out at wooden bridge guildford and packed the floor, Paid £10 for it sold for £??

I wonder who's got it now ???

So, anyone care to speculate what price an original acetate of Suspicion/ Baby Have Mercy would be worth ?

[Md Records]

I bought one of those "small" acetates at Stafford with the Monitors & Gladys Knight on, labelled up as:-

"Prophets - Suspicion" & "Lorraine Chandler - It's Too Late"

Des Parker

[Pete S]

So, anyone care to speculate what price an original acetate of Suspicion/ Baby Have Mercy would be worth ?

Not a lot in real terms I wouldn't have thought, simply because so many takes of it are available. If it were an unissued one, then it would be worth something. I've sold unreleased Motown acetates for up to £400

[Monkey]

Surely someone on here has some old echoes or BlackBeats with playlists containing these songs that'd narrow the dates down.

I remember Angel Doll being played as Edward Hamilton & Arabians, I got a cut of it off Ady Pountain with Lonely Lover on the flip.

My gut instinct and memory tells me that Rod and Dave got the tapes and played these after Stafford started, without question Dave definitely played them at Top of the World. I have since checked with Dave who has now confirmed that this was the case and they were in fact played after Stafford had started. After being played for for a while, Dave and Rod produced a limited number of acetates to order, at £25 each of which I bought one of these first batch 'Suspicion' to be exact, still think its a fantastic track to this day. (This is probably where Ady Pountain and others referred to got theirs)

...George

[Chalky]

My gut instinct and memory tells me that Rod and Dave got the tapes and played these after Stafford started, without question Dave definitely played them at Top of the World. I have since checked with Dave who has now confirmed that this was the case and they were in fact played after Stafford had started. After being played for for a while, Dave and Rod produced a limited number of acetates to order, at £25 each of which I bought one of these first batch ‘Suspicion’ to be exact, still think its a fantastic track to this day. (This is probably where Ady Pountain and others referred to got theirs)

...George

Hi George hope your well (hope you can make Lifeline again as well this weekend was good to see you again at the last 0one ) Without doubt this is my favourite ever Motown track, all the takes I love. I could listen to it all day long!!

[Pete S]

My gut instinct and memory tells me that Rod and Dave got the tapes and played these after Stafford started,

Got to tell my mate he's either making it up or forgetful about dates then!

[Chalky]

Got to tell my mate he's either making it up or forgetful about dates then!

I too have heard they were about very late Wigan but that always came from staunch Wiganites. Everyone else sez Stafford. Suppose if Rod and Dave say Stafford then we will have to take their word for it.

[Wiganer1]

this was one if not the biggest floorpacker at the top of the world niters,,,remember it played at least 5 times in one nights...........

[Modernsoulsucks]

Deffo not at Wigan. Did do "Suspicion" though for Richard Im sure. Probably played it somewhere and people getting confused. As George says Dave is sure Stafford had started and I got the tape on St.Patrick's Day. Info that is both exact and useless [without year] at the same time.

5" acetates not from us.

£25 seems a bit steep. I remember they were £14 to get cut and mostly done for mates, George. Didn't want everybody to have them really from "exclusive" playlist point of view. I think we got the odd drink or two out of them.

I've asked RobbK whether he supplied the tapes to anybody else at the time. If not I can only assume all these acetates floating about were done off our "dj spot" tapes.

ROD

Edited August 24, 2011 by modernsoulsucks

[KevH]

Had an interesting conversation a while ago with one of the parties involved in this lp, not the previously unnamed person either.

He told me he still had a load left that had never been sold.

Sold the white label LP on here some time back.They were all numbered,probably ltd to 200."Absent minded lover" was on it,among the other's Chalky listed.

Job lot Steve?

[Robbk]

I doubt that Bob Cattaneo got those tapes from Motown. But I do remember that Simon Soussain had been in Motown's offices. I wonder if he got someone there to make tapes for him? Did any of you buy any acetates from Simon?