Do Soul Jocks Make Enough Money?

[Guest j-g]

Always wondered about this? What do DJ's get paid on a regular nighter?

[Guest dundeedavie]

Always wondered about this? What do DJ's get paid on a regular nighter?

it differs for club , night and promoter so no answer would be right .....i think we are one of the higher payers but that is only based on what i have been paid for gigs

Davie

[Guest Dan]

a lot of people would do it for the love of it, wouldn't they?

though i have to say the few times i've done it have been massively nerve wracking and not very successful

[Guest dundeedavie]

a lot of people would do it for the love of it, wouldn't they?

though i have to say the few times i've done it have been massively nerve wracking and not very successful

thats a point dan ....but .... you can't expect people to travel hundreds of miles to dj for you for the love of it and the "honour" of dj'ing at certain clubs, as a promoter you have to cover costs .

what i would suggest is that promoters tell the Dj's what the deal is when they ask them , at basics our guests ALWAYS know they will get sorted and HOW MUCH they will get when i ask them to play

Davie

[Guest Matt Male]

a lot of people would do it for the love of it, wouldn't they?

Agreed Dan. The couple of times i've DJ'd i've absolutely loved it and turned down the money offered, i'd rather the promoter didn't make a loss.

I'm not saying DJs shouldn't be paid though, they've invested time and money in a great collection (or hotbox) and if they do a great spot they deserve the money they earn.

[Simon M]

The pay has gone up a little since the mid 80's I do know that

[Guest Bearsy]

Always wondered about this? What do DJ's get paid on a regular nighter?

No where near enough in some circumstances and some shouldnt get paid at all,

I think most DJs do it for the love and the money they recieve covers their expenses and time just about,

considering some of the records you hear played out and the amount they are worth its never going to be a career,

A dj just wants to please, if not himself then others too,

[Dave Morris]

No where near enough in some circumstances and some shouldnt get paid at all,

I think most DJs do it for the love and the money they recieve covers their expenses and time just about,

considering some of the records you hear played out and the amount they are worth its never going to be a career,

A dj just wants to please, if not himself then others too,

Thats the reason I do it.All the money we take on the door is split between the dj's at the Bourne For Soul do's.

I've done places and not got paid but have never been in it for the money.

I do it cos I loves doing it.

Dave.

[Pauldonnelly]

the top collectors do demand a £100/150+ package which I thinks is well worth it condsidering the mileage and what they're actaully playing...

Me, I charge £10 per hour + 12p per mile, then again I'm Vauxhall Confrence compared to some of the guys.

[Guest dundeedavie]

the top collectors do demand a £100/150+ package which I thinks is well worth it condsidering the mileage and what they're actaully playing...

Me, I charge £10 per hour + 12p per mile, then again I'm Vauxhall Confrence compared to some of the guys.

i'm interested , so you actually have a rate? never actually spoke to anyone who has a rate a such and thats after booking some of the best R&B dj's europe has to offer

Edited June 11, 2007 by dundeedavie

[Chalky]

i'm interested , so you actually have a rate? never actually spoke to anyone who has a rate a such and thats after booking some of the best R&B dj's europe has to offer

what sort of figure would you pay a European DJ Davie (other promoters can give an example or experience on booking Euro DJ's too if they wish, or even UK dj's)? Just interested as it can cost a few bob just to travel from England to Scotland. Do you pay expenses and a fee?

I haven't seen a fee mentioned by a promoter yet, not even an average fee.

Edited June 11, 2007 by chalky

[Makemvinyl]

average 40 for local jox

dista nt travellers that plus fuel and night at my place for their troubles wiv brekie

if they want to

poor buggers ought to pay em more

but other costa and audience no's control our destiny

[Dave Morris]

what sort of figure would you pay a European DJ Davie (other promoters can give an example or experience on booking Euro DJ's too if they wish, or even UK dj's)? Just interested as it can cost a few bob just to travel from England to Scotland. Do you pay expenses and a fee?

I haven't seen a fee mentioned by a promoter yet, not even an average fee.

As I said Chalky all depends on how many through the door.On our last 2 do's we've paid the dj's £40.That means we've only had 40 through doors at £5 entrance, but down here thats not bad considering we're a bit of an outpost.

Hope this helps and we get more through this saturday.

By the way we don't pay room hire.

Dave.

[Guest dundeedavie]

what sort of figure would you pay a European DJ Davie (other promoters can give an example or experience on booking Euro DJ's too if they wish, or even UK dj's)? Just interested as it can cost a few bob just to travel from England to Scotland. Do you pay expenses and a fee?

I haven't seen a fee mentioned by a promoter yet, not even an average fee.

well i can only speak for us of course .... if someone is travelling to us at our request we will sort travel and acomodation (which can be trains or flights and hotels not someones couch) so not a fee as such but we would try to ensure they were at no expense to come to us, i will get them from airports etc and if possible return them .

as for a fee i have no qualms about that at all ...for the newcomer, they get £30 and usually do the early spots and for the headliner who's not travelling far we would pay either £50 or £75 and we haven't had any complaints as yet , in fact most don't want it but we insist strongly , i'm not interested in making profit at all

now this might not seem like a lot but it is for scotland believe me

Davie

Edited June 11, 2007 by dundeedavie

[Simon M]

Ive always found it odd , that headliners only get a one hour set ..Is it just tradition ?

[Guest dundeedavie]

Ive always found it odd , that headliners only get a one hour set ..Is it just tradition ?

i suppose it depends on how much time you have and how many dj's?

[Simon M]

i suppose it depends on how much time you have and how many dj's?

I always wanted Ian Clark to do 3 hours at the 100 club

[Guest Matt Male]

I always wanted Ian Clark to do 3 hours at the 100 club

Didn't Ian levine do 2 or 3 hours at The Rocket? I'm not sure i'd want even the best to do more than maybe an hour and half, i like a bit of variety. If your whole lineup can't provide that then you may as well book only one DJ.

[Guest kev such]

Always wondered about this? What do DJ's get paid on a regular nighter?

Dont expect to be paid to do a spot. Just grateful to be asked really. However when me,Mellers and Tom went down to Bournemouth on two occasions we did have our digs paid for. I do pay the guests at the Cream Cracker, just out of courtesey really, generally they dont ask for any money, but i give them something anyway. Unless a guest is booked and costs are discussed prior.

Regards

Kev.

Edited June 11, 2007 by kev such

[steve z]

huh huh

Edited June 11, 2007 by steve z

[Guest Paul]

...Do soul jocks make enough money?

Yes, far too much!

If they had LESS money, they'd have to start playing good records instead of expensive records.

And that might be difficult for some of them.

Paul Mooney

[Simon M]

...Do soul jocks make enough money?

Yes, far too much!

If they had LESS money, they'd have to start playing good records instead of expensive records.

And that might be difficult for some of them.

Paul Mooney

Nice one ..that has happend actually .. in the early 80's they( those with less money) went to a barn in Kings Lynn and some started playing Modern Soul , all good records and 99% of em cheap

Edited June 11, 2007 by Simon M

[Sean Hampsey]

...Do soul jocks make enough money?

Yes, far too much!

If they had LESS money, they'd have to start playing good records instead of expensive records.

And that might be difficult for some of them.

Paul Mooney

Agree (to some extent) Paul.

There are some good 'expensive' records, of course, but, you're right, by and large many DJ's won't touch stuff that isn't expensive.

Sean

[Guest Matt Male]

Agree (to some extent) Paul.

There are some good 'expensive' records, of course, but, you're right, by and large many DJ's won't touch stuff that isn't expensive.

Sean

I just paid £7 each for two crackers

Ike and Tina Turner - A Fool In Love - Sue

The Fantastic Four - As Long As I Live - Ric-Tic

There are loads of brilliant cheap 45s out there that deserved to be played but never see the light of day because of the obsession with rarity and price. I think i prefer the 'rarely played' soul scene to the 'rare' soul scene

Edited June 11, 2007 by Matt Male

[Guest j-g]

I'd never DJ for free if someone else is making money...

Charity etc. is a different issue of course.

Whether you love soul isn't really an issue.

[Guest kent soul club]

If you are asking a "Name" dj to come and do a spot you have to ask them what the damage is going to be. This is what we have done, and the couple that we have had have been more than fair.

On the other hand, if someone asks to dj for us, than I assume they are happy just to dj for the enjoyment of it.

I don't think Northern Soul makes millionaires of many people, and thats why most of the people on the scene are genuine, down to earth people.

Magoo

[Sean Hampsey]

I think i prefer the 'rarely played' soul scene to the 'rare' soul scene

Count me in on that scene Matt.

In response to the original question... the game seems to have changed in recent years.

In the late 70's and early 80's DJ'ing was my only source of income, for quite a while.

I'd a couple of residencies at Nightclubs (playing mainly New Release Soul) and did the Northern Stuff inbetween.

It was my profession (or at least... I made a living out of it).

If I'd turned up and not been paid (although it never happened) I'd have sent the Boys round.

On the Northern Scene, the Promoters used to ask you about your fee at the time that they made the booking.

However, in recent years I've noticed that you're often expected to make the trip and do the gig 'for the love of it'.

It's a supply and demand thing I guess, these days. There's more 'DJ's' than punters at some nights, whereas 25+ years ago, half decent Soul DJ's were very few and far between.

Don't get me wrong. In some cases I've been happy to do a spot for the love of the music (Charity Nights, Free Entry nights etc.) but, by and large, I believe that any decent Jock should be paid a proper fee and I wouldn't dream of hiring a DJ and expecting him to work his Butt off to please my crowd purely as a vocation.

It's a question of professionalism. And as in any profession. You pay peanuts... etc.

Sean

[Guest kent soul club]

Count me in on that scene Matt.

In response to the original question... the game seems to have changed in recent years.

In the late 70's and early 80's DJ'ing was my only source of income, for quite a while.

I'd a couple of residencies at Nightclubs (playing mainly New Release Soul) and did the Northern Stuff inbetween.

It was my profession (or at least... I made a living out of it).

If I'd turned up and not been paid (although it never happened) I'd have sent the Boys round.

On the Northern Scene, the Promoters used to ask you about your fee at the time that they made the booking.

However, in recent years I've noticed that you're often expected to make the trip and do the gig 'for the love of it'.

It's a supply and demand thing I guess, these days. There's more 'DJ's' than punters at some nights, whereas 25+ years ago, half decent Soul DJ's were very few and far between.

Don't get me wrong. In some cases I've been happy to do a spot for the love of the music (Charity Nights, Free Entry nights etc.) but, by and large, I believe that any decent Jock should be paid a proper fee and I wouldn't dream of hiring a DJ and expecting him to work his Butt off to please my crowd purely as a vocation.

It's a question of professionalism. And as in any profession. You pay peanuts... etc.

Sean

Agree with the above, but at the end of the day,its all down to how much you can expect the punters to pay, how much the venue costs, then theres the security, insurance, advertising costs ,sound system, extension licence etc. etc.

I don't know if it was different back in the day, but in my experience most "promoters" nowadays are just soul fans who want to put a do on, to get involved and give everyone a good night, and we (personally) breathe a sigh of relief when we know we've broken even.

There seems to be a lot of people around who want to dj, but are not prepared to organise a regular event. As I said in my earlier post, if you are wanting a well established "name" dj you naturally expect to pay them, but there are lots of people who just want the chance to share their tunes with other people. They want to feel the buzz of being up there,to show people what they've got, then to get back on the dancefloor and enjoy the rest of the night.

I suppose we could say there are "profesional" dj's, and people who like to dj for the sake of it, but thats not to say the latter are all monkeys, they just enjoy doing it.

All the best,

Magoo :dance:

Edited June 12, 2007 by kent soul club

[Russ Vickers]

In the past I have mainly DJ'd for the love of it, unless it has been a major venue that can afford to pay a proper wage. In the future if I am lucky enough to get the gigs, I cant afford not to charge at least expenses, this is not thru some massive ego or whatever............its cos when you have a family, a mortgage & a vinyl addiction to feed, I could not afford not to charge a reasonable fee. I have sometimes ended up well out of pocket when DJing....................I am not in a position now where I could justify this. Ironically the worst I was ever stiffed for me dosh, was by a major promoter, who didnt even have the good manners to explain to my face, just avoided me all night & made the situation excedingly embarrassing. Some 'local' promoters in my experience almost expect you to do the gigs for love & almost make you feel like your not 'part of the cause' if you have the audacity to hope for even expenses. BTW Im not talking massive amounts of money here either.

As a promoter, ten years ago I was paying guest DJ's around 50 pounds, the big names were getting more than that & in certain circumstances a hotel too. One or two 'name' DJ's kindly when asked, said pay me what you can.............I will never forget a particular DJ who's fee was never more than we could afford, altho he deserved far more than I could ever pay (Thank you Dave T). I have even paid DJ's out of my own pocket on more than one occasion, altho on one memorable night, the 'live' artist that was performing a PA for me............looked into the venue from the VIP room & refused to go on unless I doubled his fee...........I had no money, every single penny had gone into the venue & promotion..........all the resident DJ's came to the rescue by wavering thier fee for the night, which allowed me to pay the artist & therefore not let down the punters. While all this was happening, the 'full house' was blissfully unaware of my predicament, the night went on to be seen as a huge success by all who attended, but I nearly lost my shirt & would have if it hadnt been for the guys giving their time for free.

So yes IMO, DJ's should always be paid something, even if in the cases of the smaller local venues its just expenses, unless there are mitigating circumstances like a potential lynch mob .

Russ

Edited June 12, 2007 by Russ Vickers

[Ged Parker]

Some make a enough but don't earn it. Some earn it but don't get it. IMO all DJ's should be paid more but I also think good venues should be charging £20 to get in. We used to put on three rooms at the Winter Gardens for £6, and when I say three rooms I mean three ballrooms the smallest had a capacity of over 400 , and people complained about paying £6.

The reality is the fee for DJs and the entrance fee are two sides of the same coin

[Simon M]

Didn't Ian levine do 2 or 3 hours at The Rocket? I'm not sure i'd want even the best to do more than maybe an hour and half, i like a bit of variety. If your whole lineup can't provide that then you may as well book only one DJ.

In the case of Clarkie , I dont think he could ever be boring even over 3 hours , 60's up to the present day at a venue like the 100 club in the early 80's ....amazing ..One of the best ever and always had a couple of Modern tracks set aside for me from his sales box

[Simon M]

I do think that less DJ's should be booked at nights and DJ's should do at least 1:30 mins in a night , or maybe two One hour spots .. I dont see any problem with this scenario ?

Edited June 12, 2007 by Simon M

[Guest vinylvixen]

I always wanted Ian Clark to do 3 hours at the 100 club

I'm with you on that one, Simon. I just wanted Ian Clark to dj forever Jo

[Simon M]

I'm with you on that one, Simon. I just wanted Ian Clark to dj forever Jo

[stomper45]

I just paid £7 each for two crackers

Ike and Tina Turner - A Fool In Love - Sue

The Fantastic Four - As Long As I Live - Ric-Tic

There are loads of brilliant cheap 45s out there that deserved to be played but never see the light of day because of the obsession with rarity and price. I think i prefer the 'rarely played' soul scene to the 'rare' soul scene

FF fantastic track Matt, just started playin it meself, danny

[Bigsoulman]

I just paid £7 each for two crackers

Ike and Tina Turner - A Fool In Love - Sue

The Fantastic Four - As Long As I Live - Ric-Tic

There are loads of brilliant cheap 45s out there that deserved to be played but never see the light of day because of the obsession with rarity and price. I think i prefer the 'rarely played' soul scene to the 'rare' soul scene

Well said that man!

Lenny

[Citizen P]

Most people semm to agree that the bigger "names" deserve a higher fee.

But, what difference does having the "big names" make to the turnout???

If you're getting a regular 100 or so in, would having one of these bring in another 50 or more?

Whaddya reckon??

Tony

Edited June 12, 2007 by tonyp

[Ralf Mehnert]

...but there seems to be an unwritten rule in the world of DJing...

If you pay a lot of your hard earned money for rare soul records...you didn`t get much for DJing...

...but if you play cheap tekkno-shite...you`ll earn 1.000s of Euros for a set.

Why? I don`t know.

Is it just to show the rest of the world that you do it for the love of the music? Heaven knows.

[Guest the dukester]

Most people semm to agree that the bigger "names" deserve a higher fee.

But, what difference does having the "big names" make to the turnout???

If you're getting a regular 100 or so in, would having one of these bring in another 50 or more?

Whaddya reckon??

Tony

No, we have had same if not more in for some of the local/"lesser names" dj's we have had on playing as good as.....if not better stuff.

On the Make enough money quote...after a demand by a "name" over and above what we provide for guest dj's :angry: ...... we made a decision and would now prefer to give local/"lesser known" the opportunity to play.

[Epic]

Only problem I have with DJs pay is when the amount of paying guests dictates the pay you recieve.

To me the cost of a night should be calculated on the following:-

Cost of venue hire

Cost of promotion

Cost of Security Staff (if required)

Cost of DJs.

That is the total "kitty" - the promoter should have this in hand before one person pays any admission price.

Have seen quite a few gigs where the promoter is nervously pacing around the entrance hoping 20 more people would arrive so he could afford to pay the DJs without going in to his own pocket.

Does he get a reduction in room hire? - NO

Do the "bouncers" get a reduction in their fee? - NO

Does he ask the DJs to take a smaller fee? Invariably YES.

The quick answer to promoters is DO YOUR SUMS.

Edited June 12, 2007 by epic

[Guest kent soul club]

Only problem I have with DJs pay is when the amount of paying guests dictates the pay you recieve.

To me the cost of a night should be calculated on the following:-

Cost of venue hire

Cost of promotion

Cost of Security Staff (if required)

Cost of DJs.

That is the total "kitty" - the promoter should have this in hand before one person pays any admission price.

Have seen quite a few gigs where the promoter is nervously pacing around the entrance hoping 20 more people would arrive so he could afford to pay the DJs without going in to his own pocket.

Does he get a reduction in room hire? - NO

Do the "bouncers" get a reduction in their fee? - NO

Does he ask the DJs to take a smaller fee? Invariably YES.

The quick answer to promoters is DO YOUR SUMS.

I agree but it is also a question of probability though - you never know how many people are going to turn up. You also don't know if another nite is going to crop up and clash with yours which will affect your numbers. We have always paid the agreed prices to all concerned, but it is sometimes a close run thing.

It is impossible to DO YOUR SUMS accurately without being able to see into the future.

There are a few other costs you haven't considered too:

Insurance

Extension licensing

Cost of purchasing and maintaining the dj equipment

Hospitality to visiting dj's

My own vinyl addiction

The time and money we spend on all of the above we hardly even calculate because if we did we probably wouldn't bother. At the end of the day the entrance fee has to be realistic or you'll get no one through the door, and we know that if we run at a loss then that is our problem. That is the bottom line.

I honestly do it because I enjoy it, however from my perspective, it would be a lot easier to just turn up with a box of records.

All the best

Magoo

[Guest dundeedavie]

Only problem I have with DJs pay is when the amount of paying guests dictates the pay you recieve.

To me the cost of a night should be calculated on the following:-

Cost of venue hire

Cost of promotion

Cost of Security Staff (if required)

Cost of DJs.

That is the total "kitty" - the promoter should have this in hand before one person pays any admission price.

Have seen quite a few gigs where the promoter is nervously pacing around the entrance hoping 20 more people would arrive so he could afford to pay the DJs without going in to his own pocket.

Does he get a reduction in room hire? - NO

Do the "bouncers" get a reduction in their fee? - NO

Does he ask the DJs to take a smaller fee? Invariably YES.

The quick answer to promoters is DO YOUR SUMS.

i'm with ya 100% ..... it's the way we work

[Dave Rimmer]

Does he get a reduction in room hire? - NO

Do the "bouncers" get a reduction in their fee? - NO

Does he ask the DJs to take a smaller fee? Invariably YES.

And on more than one occasion I've refused to take a smaller fee. I don't think I charge a fortune, my fee is usually worked out on how far a venue is and what it's going to cost me to get there, and how long I'm going to be away from home, ie will I need to pay for food etc. Then i usually add twenty quid on for beer . Like most DJs, I don't really make a profit from DJing in any way, if you take into account buying records to DJ with I almost certainly make a loss over the year.

I always point out to promoters that I don't know who are booking me for the first time that expect to be paid the agreed fee, even if they only get five people through the door because if they get 500, I won't ask for any increase in my fee. Paying DJs is a cost of putting a night on, and should not be negotiable. Sometimes promoters say my fee is too much for them. I have no problem with that at all, it means they know what their costs are, and what they can afford, so we agree amicably that I won't be booked.

Occasionally promoters pay me more than we agreed. I like those promoters and will always work for them again

But to answer the question, do Soul Jocks make enough money. No of course not. DJ fees have hardly risen over the past ten years at allnighters, but try telling Virgin Trains that you can't afford to pay the latest increase because your DJ fee hasn't gone up

[Pete Eccles]

I agree but it is also a question of probability though - you never know how many people are going to turn up. You also don't know if another nite is going to crop up and clash with yours which will affect your numbers. We have always paid the agreed prices to all concerned, but it is sometimes a close run thing.

It is impossible to DO YOUR SUMS accurately without being able to see into the future.

There are a few other costs you haven't considered too:

Insurance

Extension licensing

Cost of purchasing and maintaining the dj equipment

Hospitality to visiting dj's

My own vinyl addiction

The time and money we spend on all of the above we hardly even calculate because if we did we probably wouldn't bother. At the end of the day the entrance fee has to be realistic or you'll get no one through the door, and we know that if we run at a loss then that is our problem. That is the bottom line.

I honestly do it because I enjoy it, however from my perspective, it would be a lot easier to just turn up with a box of records.

All the best

Magoo

I co-promoted a local venue for over 4 years up untill about 2/3 years back, what we did as the first night was a reasonable success we held enough back to 'cover' the next night without a single attendee, this worked well throughout our 'existence',

We always agreed that if the 'kitty' was ever insufficient that it wouldn't cover the cost of the following months event we would call it a day,

DJ's fees were always accounted for alongside all other costs as any lack of support for whatever reason was of no fault of the guest DJ, and like already stated if the other costs were set in stone then why not the guest DJ's? also their are some events poorly attended due to poor management ie lack of legwork with flyers and other advertising and we never wanted a guest DJ to go away thinking they have not been paid due to poor promotion,

BTW do you really put your own vinyl addiction down as an event expense? you actually include this in your sums?

Regards,

Pete

sorry just read the hardly even calculate part of your post missed it first time so please ignore my last comment re vinyl addiction

Edited June 12, 2007 by pete60

[Guest Bearsy]

One thing that seems to be missing aswell is the fact that EVERY time a DJ plays a tune the value of that tune goes down as its becoming more and more used which affects the grading which inturn then affects the value and as we all know that at the end of the day we can all say tunes dont have to be expensive to be quality but we do want quality and we want to hear big tunes when we are out and some of the big tunes aint cheap, why should a DJ play their top tunes and devalue them so everyone can get a great night at their loss. a DJ cant just keep doing it and slowly and i know its very slowly devalue their tunes for the sake of trying to keep people happy which will never happen all the time vinyl has a whole in the middle.

some will do it for the love and not worry too much about this theory of mine but if you want to hire a DJ to one of your promotions for a great night of their top tunes this also comes into the equation aswell as their time and paying for their skill and experience.

I never charge but then again no one would have me

[Simon M]

Hey Bearsy sounds like your gonna be out done by an even longer Edwin Starr mega mix @ KSC ..

Edited June 12, 2007 by Simon M

[Guest j-g]

One thing that seems to be missing aswell is the fact that EVERY time a DJ plays a tune the value of that tune goes down as its becoming more and more used which affects the grading which inturn then affects the value

Yeah, will this is only the case if it's played on a badly adjusted system.

If the promoter makes sure everything is proper adjusted the wear on records is extremely minimal.

As far as cueing records goes, this is upto the DJ....

[Guest Bearsy]

Hey Bearsy sounds like your gonna be out done by an even longer Edwin Starr mega mix @ KSC ..

Martin and his Edwin bloody Starr , as long as he plays the right side this time i will be in the where i normally am when Martins on the decks

[Guest Bearsy]

Yeah, will this is only the case if it's played on a badly adjusted system.

If the promoter makes sure everything is proper adjusted the wear on records is extremely minimal.

As far as cueing records goes, this is upto the DJ....

Very true but the theory is there if you know what i mean. it was just a point i thought might stand up in the debate.

i got me coat

[Steve G]

Sorry but this is ballocks! As a promotor you need to cover your costs, and that includes paying the DJ people who have agreed to grace your venue. It's no good saying you don't know how many are going to turn up, you need to treat it as if enough people will turn up and have enough dosh in your old wallet to cover those costs. If punters don't turn up and you lose money, then sorry but don't promote gigs. It's simple really and a promotor should always pay their DJs - end of.......