Production

[Barry]

At what point/year does a person who likes sixties soul tail off and begin to dislike the production sound of black America? Likewise, going backwards, at what point does a seventies soul lover start to get the hump?

[Bazza]

At what point/year does a person who likes sixties soul tail off and begin to dislike the production sound of black America? Likewise, going backwards, at what point does a seventies soul lover start to get the hump?

I think it became over produced after 1970 to 71....any thing after that time is "modern"

Bazza

[Barry]

I think it became over produced after 1970 to 71....any thing after that time is "modern"

Bazza

So Bazza, you have a period of around a year within which you may like some stuff and you may not?

[Bazza]

So Bazza, you have a period of around a year within which you may like some stuff and you may not?

No Im not saying I dont like any Modern..cos I do..but...I much prefare the raw 60s sound to the over produced 70s sound

Bazza

[Barry]

No Im not saying I dont like any Modern..cos I do..but...I much prefare the raw 60s sound to the over produced 70s sound

Bazza

I'm just trying to get it straight in my mind as I don't have a cut off point (start point for me, would be mid/late 50s I would say) and it always intrigues me as to when the sound starts to alienate people.

[Mak]

I think it became over produced after 1970 to 71....any thing after that time is "modern"

Bazza

Bazza , a 37 yrs old is ''Modern'' . give over.

[Bazza]

Bazza , a 37 yrs old is ''Modern'' . give over.

cors it is Mak its obvious

Bazza

[Mark B]

At what point/year does a person who likes sixties soul tail off and begin to dislike the production sound of black America? Likewise, going backwards, at what point does a seventies soul lover start to get the hump?

i think you will find that a lot of people actaually like both

mark

[Barry]

-->

QUOTE(mark.b @ Jun 5 2007, 12:08 PM) link

i think you will find that a lot of people actaually like both

mark

I know that son, the question is aimed at those that don't.

[Pete S]

I'll try and answer it then. 67-68. Coinciding with Motown moving to the West Coast in fact.

[SteveM]

I'll try and answer it then. 67-68. Coinciding with Motown moving to the West Coast in fact.

I find that a much more reasonable answer than 31 December 1969.

[Pete S]

I find that a much more reasonable answer than 31 December 1969.

Glad it met with your approval Your Majesty

[KevH]

No Im not saying I dont like any Modern..cos I do..but...I much prefare the raw 60s sound to the over produced 70s sound

Bazza

so you do like CARSTAIRS then Bazza

[SteveM]

Glad it met with your approval Your Majesty

More humble please !

[Guest Bogue]

At what point/year does a person who likes sixties soul tail off and begin to dislike the production sound of black America? Likewise, going backwards, at what point does a seventies soul lover start to get the hump?

If truth be told there probably isn't anyone who totaly hates either genre, even die hard 60's lovers like the odd 70's & vice versa.

Personaly i would say after the Philly sound when synths started to be added to the mix in ever increasing amounts is the time i start to lose interest.

I also remember hating 'Skip Mahoaney' & 'Velvet Hammer' when they were really big circa 79/80/81, yet i would put them in my all time favourites now.

Edited June 5, 2007 by Bogue

[Bazza]

I find that a much more reasonable answer than 31 December 1969.

..how can you say that..that is THE date that the raw and great sounding tunes with the dodgy vocals wrongly played notes, changed into the slick slushy sounding , perfect unreal sound that some have produced ever since

Bazza

Edited June 5, 2007 by bazza

[Guest Carl Dixon]

The use of synths was a big turn off and also as soon as the 12" single came out, things changed. I really do like the early 70's stuff which I feel is in the twilight zone nestled between the raw 60's and the lush mid 70's. As mentioned, since Motown moved from Detroit to LA something special ended in terms of that solid sound we know from Michigan. Then along came funk and 'stereo'. I went through a phase of buying 12" records in the late 70's and played some of them at a gig recently, but there is something about a two and a half minute song with proper instruments and no vocal pitch shifters - it says it all. I think the Philly sound was special too. It was fresh, vibrant and a great alternative at the time. The orchestrations are big and that Sigma sound reverb/echo, just great.

Even though now, I do not like synths, I enjoyed the 'All Platinum' releases at the time. I guess some of the songs were excellent and had that special appeal to my ears. Love it or not, 'Girls' just had a spark of magic in its production. I remember the Saturday Night Fever era well - on those nights I think I only heard about 20 records, becuase they were all too long. It was about 1980 when I finally realised where my loyalties lie and that soul was on a level where I did not want to go.

[Barry]

If truth be told there probably isn't anyone who totaly hates either genre, even die hard 60's lovers like the odd 70's & vice versa.

Personaly i would say after the Philly sound when synths started to be added to the mix in ever increasing amounts is the time i start to lose interest.

I also remember hating 'Skip Mahoaney' & 'Velvet Hammer' when they were really big circa 79/80/81, yet i would put them in my all time favourites now.

I've no doubt that there, in reality and not on a message board, aren't many people that are just one ilk lovers but there are people who 'prefer' a sound - and I think that is who I was aiming this question at.

I'll be more choice with my words next time.

[Bazza]

so you do like CARSTAIRS then Bazza

Sorry Kev missed this post.......and noooooooooo.....its tripe

Bazza

[Godzilla]

At what point/year does a person who likes sixties soul tail off and begin to dislike the production sound of black America? Likewise, going backwards, at what point does a seventies soul lover start to get the hump?

Don't get the premise. There's stuff from the 60s and even earlier with fanastic production values. Not talking just soul music either, have a listen to some of the Sinatra/Nelson Riddle recordings or those of odballs like Esquivel. I don't think those records would be any better if they'd been recorded with modern techniques.

Conversely there's stuff from the 70s and beyond that sounds like it was recorded in Tracy Emin's bed and pressed onto dustbin lids, especially on small indie labels.

On the third hand where do labels like Daptone's ouput fit in here?

I think what I'm trying to say is that the period and available techniques are not the only factors determining what a record sounds like. or something.

Godz

[Barry]

Don't get the premise. There's stuff from the 60s and even earlier with fanastic production values. Not talking just soul music either, have a listen to some of the Sinatra/Nelson Riddle recordings or those of odballs like Esquivel. I don't think those records would be any better if they'd been recorded with modern techniques.

Conversely there's stuff from the 70s and beyond that sounds like it was recorded in Tracy Emin's bed and pressed onto dustbin lids, especially on small indie labels.

On the third hand where do labels like Daptone's ouput fit in here?

I think what I'm trying to say is that the period and available techniques are not the only factors determining what a record sounds like. or something.

Godz

You know, you're quite right with what you say above, but the question can't be that hard to understand, can it, really?

[Guest Bogue]

I've no doubt that there, in reality and not on a message board, aren't many people that are just one ilk lovers but there are people who 'prefer' a sound - and I think that is who I was aiming this question at.

I'll be more choice with my words next time.

Wasn't questioning your question Barry Was just a bit of an 'own up' on my accounts really, if you look at a lot of my posts i come across as a bit of a serial 70's hater myself.

Edited June 5, 2007 by Bogue

[Barry]

Wasn't questioning your question Barry Was just a bit of an 'own up' on my accounts really, if you look at a lot of my posts i come across as a bit of a serial 70's hater myself.

Didn't think you were fella, my poor wording I suppose, it's just that I've had that many conversations with people over the years, generally on ale and chemicals, about this topic and thought, what with the great Carstairs debate , there'd be no better time for someone to give me a 'conscious' view of their musical tastes.

[Pete S]

I like hundreds of soul records made in the 70's, I grew up with them - Al Green, Invictus label, detroit Emeralds, that sort of stuff and they are fantastic still. But you're asking about 70's records and Northern Soul and there's only a handful I like and these are throwbacks to the 60's sound, which for me, is the true sound of Northern Soul, not some disco record made in 1975. This usually brings a retort of "narrow minded" "blinkered" or "donosaur" but it's always from the 70's lovers, trying to force their views and their crap music on people who have no interest in hearing it. You don't hear of 60's afficionados trying to worm their way into modern rooms and get them to play 60's music.

[Guest mel brat]

I'll try and answer it then. 67-68. Coinciding with Motown moving to the West Coast in fact.

...except they actually moved west in 1971!

[Pete S]

...except they actually moved west in 1971!

Must have imagined all those recordings made there before that then...should I have said "when Motown started using production facilities located in Los Angeles which were influenced by psychedelic rock music"

Edited June 6, 2007 by Pete-S

[BrianB]

You don't hear of 60's afficionados trying to worm their way into modern rooms and get them to play 60's music.

All of your reply is bang on Pete. I agree on the 70ts non northern sounds. Some are brilliant. I particularly love Oh Girl by the Chilites, but hate 70ts northern.

I actually wrote something very similar to your statement which I have placed in bold type, on another thread, and was ridiculed and castigated by a lot of our contributors, to what is after all, a forum.

Why should I go to an event billed as a "Northern Soul" night and be forced to listen to non northern soul, i.e. 70ts? As soon as the flyer says "crossover", I just don't go, so why force it on me?

[Pete S]

All of your reply is bang on Pete. I agree on the 70ts non northern sounds. Some are brilliant. I particularly love Oh Girl by the Chilites, but hate 70ts northern.

I actually wrote something very similar to your statement which I have placed in bold type, on another thread, and was ridiculed and castigated by a lot of our contributors, to what is after all, a forum.

Why should I go to an event billed as a "Northern Soul" night and be forced to listen to non northern soul, i.e. 70ts? As soon as the flyer says "crossover", I just don't go, so why force it on me?

Cheers Brian, your last sentence sums it all up really, point me to your thread, be intersted to see who is doing the castigating

[Bazza]

Northern Soul.....is 60's......maybe a few from the very early 70's, you lot should know this,half the stuff they play these days at do's is not Northern at all,having said that Im not complaining

( apart from the lack of R&B )......but lets get it right :tomato2:

Bazza

Edited June 7, 2007 by bazza

[Barry]

Northern Soul.....is 60's......maybe a few from the very early 70's, you lot should know this,half the stuff they play these days at do's is not Northern at all,having said that Im not complaining

( apart from the lack of R&B )......but lets get it right :tomato2:

Bazza

It depends who you are though!?

Everything I heard at Wigan, I termed as Northern then, and still do now.

I'm not saying that about everything I've heard at every Nighter I've been to like.

[jocko]

Northern Soul.....is 60's......maybe a few from the very early 70's, you lot should know this,half the stuff they play these days at do's is not Northern at all,having said that Im not complaining

( apart from the lack of R&B )......but lets get it right :tomato2:

Bazza

I think this depends on when you got into it, reading your comments on here Bazza I assume you missed the late 70's to mid 90's, which is when I got into and probably Barry as well. There seems to have been a far broader church then.

To define Northern now is impossible, as someone said other day if its played in a Northern venue then its probably Northern, however agree with Pete S (god these words were difficult to say) that doesn't mean you have to like it and I would rather people listened to only 60's soul rathern than no soul!

To answer Barry's original question, as everyone seems to ignore that, I think there are 2 answers to that, and one is an answer about Northern (where its the beat that differentiates) and a different answer to general soul lovers, who surely cannot like only 60's, its one of these cases again where in reality many Northern fans have no real affinity to soul music (thats not a dig, its just an observation) and are only concerned with whats danceable in a big room, and this leads to the unbelievably wide spectrum that is todays Northern Scene(s)!

A more interesting question would be, although I think I might have answered it above, is why is so much crap played under the banner of Northern!

[Bazza]

I think this depends on when you got into it, reading your comments on here Bazza I assume you missed the late 70's to mid 90's, which is when I got into and probably Barry as well. There seems to have been a far broader church then.

Yes Jocko..your right , I got into it around 1970...missed the late 70's and 80's..but as I said Im not complaining, I think do's have got to play across the board...so many different tastes these days, I would like to hear 2 or 3 tunes of differnt styles rotated through out the night , that way you would not get fed up of any particular type/style

Bazza

[Barry]

A more interesting question would be, although I think I might have answered it above, is why is so much crap played under the banner of Northern!

Do you mean a lot of the later played crossover stuff Jocko?

[Pete S]

Do you mean a lot of the later played crossover stuff Jocko?

Ah, best reply of the thread and one that you just beat me to

[Guest j-g]

I don't think it starts being really soulful until like '66-'67.

Many big northern classics are nothing but 60s gogo dance-pop to me.

Sorry

[Barry]

Ah, best reply of the thread and one that you just beat me to

It was meant as a tongue in cheek prod really Pete but no one bit - here's my take on it.

Having been away from the scene, not form black music and other scenes I may add, just the Northern scene, 'pon my return the crossover sound had become quite prevelant, in playlists and on dancefloors.

Although there is some great music in that genre, it's just not built for Northern events for me. I understand as people get older they need a more midtempo thing going on dance-floor side but.....Nah, not in my all nighter.

Now, black music is black music in my book, I am not saying I dislike the crossover sound, I don't, I have enough of it but just that I don't think it is Nighter material.

[Barry]

Now 'Modern' on the other hand!