We at Easington this year have had our Soul Night times extended until 1am, Bar closes at 12.30, The commitee agree to this as long as we have the no entry policy after 11pm so the doors are shut (chucking out time at local pubs) When people leave between 11pm and 1am its down stairs for Julie to close the doors....No problem because not that many leave.

Our next soul night is in August and the "England go's smoke free" policy will be in place meaning...no smoking in the building. This creates a problem, not just for us but for I believe many events going on around the country with the same layout as us (up 3 flights of stairs!!), people will want a Fag and after 11pm....and they must go outside....

Running up and down the stairs every 5 minutes leting em in and out is not an option what do you do???

Ive recently returned from a trip to New York

were just about everywere is No Smoking

Being a fairly heavy smoker myself

The thing that struck me the most, whilst sitting and looking around, there was no one else smoking so no smoke in the air to entice me to have a ciggie

no ash trays, no cigarettes or lighters in view on the tables, and whether its just me I dont know

but i realy did not feel the need to light up.

I wont bang on about the rights and wrongs

As when this law comes in, all of us who do smoke will just have to tow the line, if people cannot go a few hours without lighting up, they must have a real problem, its no different on planes in restaurants, and all places of work.

So I dont think it will be an issue for the majority of people (smokers)

As for the venue, just advertise a no smoking policy outside after the stated time, as it would be un-managable for the promoters due to the Clubs regulations on what time the doors must be closed, I am pretty sure the vast majority of attendees would understand I would .

As you have stated, lots of venues will have this issue, but i realy dont see it having an affect on attendances or smokers making an issue out of it, it wouldnt put me off attending, it doesnt stop me flying or going out to eat etc, and is a small price to pay for some soul

It's like living in nazi Germany here, this non smoking law is fascist. They should have banned it in restaurants, cinemas, buses etc etc but to ban cigarettes from pubs, they might as well ban alcoholic drinks. Who voted for this law, I certainly didn't. And I'm only a part time smoker, but the way this government is stripping away everyones rights, and we're letting them, is very very worrying

Works a treat down here in Wales. Most pubs are embracing the European style of pavement tables. Newport ahs two streets perfect for this, and finally they are taking advantage.

I was in london a couple of weeks ago and nearly fell off my chair when i saw a fella smoking. Its amazing how easy the transition was. Virtually seamless as far as I can see.

  Pete-S said:

It's like living in nazi Germany here, this non smoking law is fascist. They should have banned it in restaurants, cinemas, buses etc etc but to ban cigarettes from pubs, they might as well ban alcoholic drinks. Who voted for this law, I certainly didn't. And I'm only a part time smoker, but the way this government is stripping away everyones rights, and we're letting them, is very very worrying

Well ,I find myself in total agreement with you again Pete...............very worrying

Bazza

  in town Mikey said:

Works a treat down here in Wales. Most pubs are embracing the European style of pavement tables. Newport ahs two streets perfect for this, and finally they are taking advantage.

I was in london a couple of weeks ago and nearly fell off my chair when i saw a fella smoking. Its amazing how easy the transition was. Virtually seamless as far as I can see.

California is voting to ban smoking outside bars and restaurants shortly Mikey.

If people do stop going to pubs because of the restrictions, then the brewers are going to need to replace their profits and th government th duty. An end to cheap beer/lager etc in supermarkets anyone ?

  bazza said:

Well ,I find myself in total agreement with you again Pete...............very worrying

Bazza

YOU'RE GETTIN SOFT BAZZA .

only the addicted deny the problem

Edited June 4, 200717 yr by KevH

  SteveM said:

California is voting to ban smoking outside bars and restaurants shortly Mikey.

If people do stop going to pubs because of the restrictions, then the brewers are going to need to replace their profits and th government th duty. An end to cheap beer/lager etc in supermarkets anyone ?

I don't think people have stopped going to pubs in Ireland, Scotland or Wales since the ban - sure there will be some actual figures somewhere but I don't know anyone who's stopped going just because they can't smoke. Most that I know have cut down or stopped since (or in time for) the ban in their area.

what worries me is..if every one did pack in smoking,the tax the government would lose..must be about £4.80 on a packet of fags these days....they would have to recoup the losses somehow .suppose they would then put it on the price of petrol...they have us by the short and curlies

Bazza

You'll get used to it. Everyone thought it would be disastrous for the whole pub, club and restaurant business, but the fact is it turned out to be an improvement. After a short period of time attendance and business reportedly went up. It's not like people are staying at home just because they can't smoke indoors (and often they can anyway, in seriously nasty smelling little enclosed spaces). To my best knowledge smoking was never banned in nazi Germany, so you would have been better of there Pete. I can see the trouble for the particular venue in this thread though. The good thing is that if you are only a part time smoker or a party smoker, or someone who is trying to quit, you don't tend to get so easily tempted as in the past when it was hard not to end up with a cigarette in your hand after a beer or two...

  SteveM said:

California is voting to ban smoking outside bars and restaurants shortly Mikey.

If people do stop going to pubs because of the restrictions, then the brewers are going to need to replace their profits and th government th duty. An end to cheap beer/lager etc in supermarkets anyone ?

I think Arnie has breathed in too much agent orange. He is trying his hardest, bless him, to be a great eco-warrior, without having a clue what he is actually talking about.

Newport looks great in the evening with people sat on concourses eating their Pot noodles while swigging down cans of red bull. it makes the area, which has a reputation for lots of fights, look very serene.

Edited June 4, 200717 yr by in town Mikey

  rachel said:

I don't think people have stopped going to pubs in Ireland, Scotland or Wales since the ban - sure there will be some actual figures somewhere but I don't know anyone who's stopped going just because they can't smoke. Most that I know have cut down or stopped since (or in time for) the ban in their area.

The Irish side of my family tell me that people are stopping going to pubs, not so much because of the non smoking but the aggro that happens outside the pubs now, people with booze on board forced to go out in the wind and rain, get hacked off and wind up rucking.

Interesting point earlier about off sales, ive been wondering how they will recoup any lost revinue from people giving up smoking too, the faith we have in our politicians is astounding init?

  bazza said:

what worries me is..if every one did pack in smoking,the tax the government would lose..must be about £4.80 on a packet of fags these days....they would have to recoup the losses somehow

C'mon... if everyone gave up smoking, I think the amount of money the NHS would save on treating lung cancer victims would more than cancel out any loss of tax. Tired old argument.

Living in Scotland ("the sick country of Europe") I thought implementing this would be a nightmare - I was amazed at how smoothly it all went. Most smokers I know much prefer not having to sit in smoky rooms. While visiting Newcastle recently I honestly felt shocked seeing people sitting smoking indoors, it felt like being back in the dark ages. There were children in the pub, inhaling carcinogenic smoke - not funny, and most certainly an invasion of civil liberties...

  bazza said:

what worries me is..if every one did pack in smoking,the tax the government would lose..must be about £4.80 on a packet of fags these days....they would have to recoup the losses somehow .suppose they would then put it on the price of petrol...they have us by the short and curlies

Bazza

Bazza

For years now the government have all but turned a blind eye to the vast quantitys of foreign ciggies coming over, the amount of tax they receive now must be at an all time low from those purchased through

legal outlets, with that and a lot less people smoking these days, its not in my opinion going to make a great deal of difference to the government and the tax collected, and why should they bother when they have the old gravy train called the motorist, the money coming in from fuels and speed cameras, must be dwarfing whats collected through ciggies, everything is in reverse now, used to be, loads of folk smoked but never had a car, now everyone drives and hardly anyone smokes, mobiles will be next, as everyone seems to have one, so lets sneak something in on them, maybe not just yet buts its coming.

  Pete-S said:

It's like living in nazi Germany here, this non smoking law is fascist.

Nordic Soul is in the know!!!

Smoking was not banned in Nazi Germany...but a new law from our leaders from Berlin will stop it on 01.10.2007 in Clubs over here as well . Hope we can smoke as much as possible on our Weekender in early october without any problems...

Like the 25.000 peoples at the G8 meeting demonstrations last weekend had on theire shirts `A better world is possible`.

  cover-up said:

C'mon... if everyone gave up smoking, I think the amount of money the NHS would save on treating lung cancer victims would more than cancel out any loss of tax. Tired old argument.

Maybe so,but then your stuck with what to do with all these ex smokers living longer, where's the money gonna come from to keep us in our dotage??

Government should give all us "lepers" gold clocks-we pay tax on everything,all our NI contributions and then when it's time for us to collect-----we're DEAD!

What about all the money the NHS spends on alcohol related ilnesses etc.

I don't know anybody who smoked all night then went and attacked a nurse.

When was the last time somebody who'd been smoking all night, got behind the wheel of a car and wiped someones family out??????

All things in moderation, it aint beyond the wit of man to have designated areas with proper climate controls for us to enjoy the odd Stick of Death.

Tony

  cover-up said:

C'mon... if everyone gave up smoking, I think the amount of money the NHS would save on treating lung cancer victims would more than cancel out any loss of tax. Tired old argument.

I put the maths on here a while ago, the health cost of smoking for all smoking related diseases only absorbs 30% of the tax raised by smoking. And if everyone lives longer because the fags don't do them in they'll need to provide lots more healthcare for old people with less revenue. The argument that smokers drain NHS resources is completely wrong.

Its no smoking here, doesn't bother me that much but all the more working class pubs on the island have suffered and half of them have closed, the off licence sales in the same areas as those pubs have doubled.

  moggy said:

Ive recently returned from a trip to New York

were just about everywere is No Smoking

Being a fairly heavy smoker myself

The thing that struck me the most, whilst sitting and looking around, there was no one else smoking so no smoke in the air to entice me to have a ciggie

no ash trays, no cigarettes or lighters in view on the tables, and whether its just me I dont know

but i realy did not feel the need to light up.

I wont bang on about the rights and wrongs

As when this law comes in, all of us who do smoke will just have to tow the line, if people cannot go a few hours without lighting up, they must have a real problem, its no different on planes in restaurants, and all places of work.

So I dont think it will be an issue for the majority of people (smokers)

As for the venue, just advertise a no smoking policy outside after the stated time, as it would be un-managable for the promoters due to the Clubs regulations on what time the doors must be closed, I am pretty sure the vast majority of attendees would understand I would .

As you have stated, lots of venues will have this issue, but i realy dont see it having an affect on attendances or smokers making an issue out of it, it wouldnt put me off attending, it doesnt stop me flying or going out to eat etc, and is a small price to pay for some soul

Moggy's got it right I think-as a non smoker I really don't like being in a smoky atmosphere but I've obviously put up with it for years as I like to go to places where people smoke. So now I can have a rest from it as the smokers have had a good few hundred years being able to smoke where they like and they probably won't miss it that much anyway once they get used to it....most ex smokers I I know don't miss it...they're usually more anti smoking than people who've never smoked!

Just waiting now for the alcohol being anti social contra argument....usually follows

  moggy said:

Bazza

For years now the government have all but turned a blind eye to the vast quantitys of foreign ciggies coming over, the amount of tax they receive now must be at an all time low from those purchased through

legal outlets,

I think the Revenue take from smoking was about £9.6 billion last year.

  Stuart T said:

I think the Revenue take from smoking was about £9.6 billion last year.

Stu

Your probably right mate, but how much were they collecting say 15 years ago in comparison money wise,

a hell of a lot more i would think, they have been weaning there selves for this

I mean, how long would it take to raise 9.6 billion by adding a couple of pence on a litre of fuel,

yes it sounds a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things its way down on what we could term

good earners for the government

I may be wrong but I heard a figure of 400 billion collected in taxes each year overall this may be well off the mark, and i mean a low figure to the actual monies collected

But it would be nice to know how much tax was collected via fuel

  moggy said:

Stu

Your probably right mate, but how much were they collecting say 15 years ago in comparison money wise,

a hell of a lot more i would think, they have been weaning there selves for this

I mean, how long would it take to raise 9.6 billion by adding a couple of pence on a litre of fuel,

yes it sounds a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things its way down on what we could term

good earners for the government

I may be wrong but I heard a figure of 400 billion collected in taxes each year overall this may be well off the mark, and i mean a low figure to the actual monies collected

But it would be nice to know how much tax was collected via fuel

A couple of pence on a litre of fuel....I think they are scared to death of it reaching a fiver a gallon,I think there would be an uproar if it did.....been known to be wrong tho'

Bazza

  moggy said:

Stu

Your probably right mate, but how much were they collecting say 15 years ago in comparison money wise,

a hell of a lot more i would think, they have been weaning there selves for this

I mean, how long would it take to raise 9.6 billion by adding a couple of pence on a litre of fuel,

yes it sounds a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things its way down on what we could term

good earners for the government

I may be wrong but I heard a figure of 400 billion collected in taxes each year overall this may be well off the mark, and i mean a low figure to the actual monies collected

But it would be nice to know how much tax was collected via fuel

Could only find the 2005 figures, fag income is 1.9% on this basis, I think that fuel duties would have to go up 35% on these figures (first figure is billions rasied, second is that figure as a percentage of the total tax raised):

Income Tax 122.9 28.80%

National insurance contributions 78.1 18.30%

Value added tax 73.03 17.11%

Corporation tax 34.1 7.99%

Fuel duties 23.31 5.46%

Council Tax 20.1 4.71%

Business rates 18.74 4.39%

Other taxes & royalties 11.7 2.74%

Stamp duties 8.97 2.10%

Tobacco duty 8.1 1.90%

Vehicle excise duty 4.7 1.10%

Beer & cider duties 3.26 0.76%

Inheritance tax 2.94 0.69%

Spirits duties 2.39 0.56%

Insurance Premium tax 2.36 0.55%

Capital gains tax 2.28 0.53%

Wine duties 2.23 0.52%

Customs Duties & levies 2.2 0.51%

Betting & Gaming duties 1.42 0.33%

Petroleum revenue tax 1.28 0.30%

Air Passenger duty 0.86 0.20%

Climate Change Levy 0.76 0.18%

Land fill tax 0.67 0.16%

Aggregates levy 0.33 0.08%

Edited June 4, 200717 yr by Stuart T

  the dukester said:

We at Easington this year have had our Soul Night times extended until 1am, Bar closes at 12.30, The commitee agree to this as long as we have the no entry policy after 11pm so the doors are shut (chucking out time at local pubs) When people leave between 11pm and 1am its down stairs for Julie to close the doors....No problem because not that many leave.

Our next soul night is in August and the "England go's smoke free" policy will be in place meaning...no smoking in the building. This creates a problem, not just for us but for I believe many events going on around the country with the same layout as us (up 3 flights of stairs!!), people will want a Fag and after 11pm....and they must go outside....

Running up and down the stairs every 5 minutes leting em in and out is not an option what do you do???

It appears you have a number of replies frm non-smokers or social smokers (slight contradiction!) who do not envisage a problem.

You do have a problem. There surely will be smokers who want to nip out for a quick puff and, unless you have an alternative plan, of course you'll be running up and down stairs to accomodate them.

Is it really to much trouble to have someone on the door after 11? A smoker perhaps? Maybe suggesting or even supplying nicotine patches might help, but I doubt it will enough to prevent you losing some customers. I'm trying not to be negative but there is a glut of venues with the way the scene is at the moment. Maybe smoking policy as well as music policy will be a deciding factor in which venues survive. :search:

I am of course a smoker. I also DJ, and have had a couple of recent venue changes with our set up in Kent. We had a non-smoking venue at the end of the harbour wall in Ramsgate, where even the icy winds and crashing waves didn't deter the smokers from getting their fix! Fortunately at our new venue (currently smoking allowed) the manager even put sand buckets outside for the smokers who wanted fresh air (I know - another contradiction), so that bodes well I hope for the future.

I wish you luck in resolving your problem (or changing your venue), and await further views expressed on this thread for any ideas, as we have similarly organised "members" nights with no entry after 11.

I for one need my soul fix AND my nicotine fix.

Kevin.

"STOLEN HOURS"

RAMSGATE 21st JULY

  the dukester said:

We at Easington this year have had our Soul Night times extended until 1am, Bar closes at 12.30, The commitee agree to this as long as we have the no entry policy after 11pm so the doors are shut (chucking out time at local pubs) When people leave between 11pm and 1am its down stairs for Julie to close the doors....No problem because not that many leave.

Our next soul night is in August and the "England go's smoke free" policy will be in place meaning...no smoking in the building. This creates a problem, not just for us but for I believe many events going on around the country with the same layout as us (up 3 flights of stairs!!), people will want a Fag and after 11pm....and they must go outside....

Running up and down the stairs every 5 minutes leting em in and out is not an option what do you do???

How about they give up smoking ? That way they would then be able to SPRINT up & down the stairs & they would have a lot more money to spend on records, hence saving the rare soul scene into the bargin

Regards the argument that drinking is as bad as smoking & why not ban that, difference is with drinking everyone has a choice, it's not imposed on you. e.g. someone dosen't force you to drink their beer in the way a smoker forces a non smoker to have some of his smoke !

  in town Mikey said:

Works a treat down here in Wales. Most pubs are embracing the European style of pavement tables. Newport ahs two streets perfect for this, and finally they are taking advantage.

I was in london a couple of weeks ago and nearly fell off my chair when i saw a fella smoking. Its amazing how easy the transition was. Virtually seamless as far as I can see.

Second this it works fine here in North Wales, should have been brought in years ago, even the smokers I know here agree with it.

I was doing a weekly when the ex-smoker mayor sprung this on us.

At first, we lost part of the crowd. And second, people learned how to work around the law. Third, we now have to deal with managing the crowd outside so the neighbors aren't constantly complaining about all the smokers outside.

In NYC for example:

The law is enforced by the local health dept., not the police. There were no inspectors out after 11 PM (at that time). So guess when the smokers came back in?

Having ashtrays anywhere on a business premesis is now illegal and enforced by the health dept. Solution? Fold the drinks mats into an ashtray. Pour a little liquid in the bottom to keep from catching on fire.

Having someone on the street with a drink will cost the bar far more (criminal vs. civil offense) than having smokers inside. We ended up having to watch the people outside for drinks.

Having people loitering outside the bar will cost the bar more than smoking inside. Bars end up having to send people away from the doors and down the block while they stand outside and smoke.

Even with this level of stupidity, business picked up again over the first year of the ban. Problem is that drinks are more expensive now due to the extra work the bar does.

Edited June 4, 200717 yr by upsetterfc

  Bogue said:

How about they give up smoking ? That way they would then be able to SPRINT up & down the stairs & they would have a lot more money to spend on records, hence saving the rare soul scene into the bargin

Regards the argument that drinking is as bad as smoking & why not ban that, difference is with drinking everyone has a choice, it's not imposed on you. e.g. someone dosen't force you to drink their beer in the way a smoker forces a non smoker to have some of his smoke !

I`m sure a few folk enjoyed getting there heads stoved in,and love the abuse....and like you have a choice. :angry:

HOW CAN I DJ WITHOUT ME PIPE .THEY WILL PUT A WARNING ON SHOES NEXT SAYING WEARING THESE SHOES CAN SERIOUSLY DAMMAGE THIER HEELS. I LOVE TOBACCO IT STINKS AND SO DOES THE GOVERNMENT

  Bogue said:

How about they give up smoking ? That way they would then be able to SPRINT up & down the stairs & they would have a lot more money to spend on records, hence saving the rare soul scene into the bargin

Regards the argument that drinking is as bad as smoking & why not ban that, difference is with drinking everyone has a choice, it's not imposed on you. e.g. someone dosen't force you to drink their beer in the way a smoker forces a non smoker to have some of his smoke !

CHOICE - yes, that's the word I was looking for!

  ken said:

I`m sure a few folk enjoyed getting there heads stoved in,and love the abuse....and like you have a choice. :angry:

Know what you are saying Ken, but is it 'just' the alcohol that makes certain arseholes get violent ?

9 times out of 10 the perpertrators of this violence would still get in to fights whether they have alcohol or not, they are violent people with no regards to other human beings before they let a drink touch their lips & the alcohol just serves to give them a bit of "courage" that their cowardly nature usually lacks.

Too easy to just 'blame it on the drink your honour' in my opinion.

  KevinKent said:

CHOICE - yes, that's the word I was looking for!

Care to enlarge on that ? don't quite get your point ?

  Bogue said:

Know what you are saying Ken, but is it 'just' the alcohol that makes certain arseholes get violent ?

9 times out of 10 the perpertrators of this violence would still get in to fights whether they have alcohol or not, they are violent people with no regards to other human beings before they let a drink touch their lips & the alcohol just serves to give them a bit of "courage" that their cowardly nature usually lacks.

Too easy to just 'blame it on the drink your honour' in my opinion.

Tell the doctors and nurses at the the front line that.

We in Italy got the smoking ban since a couple of years ago, and we have solved the problem in the typical italian way...

No one is respecting the ban and everybody smokes inside clubs... They couldn't stop drug dealing, how can they stop fags smokers...?

In restaurants and bars the ban is respected.

I don't think there's any doubt that some people will no longer go, it's just a case of how many and whether it will have any serious effect on attendances etc. Personally I don't think so.

However the forward-thinking promoter who manages to hire a venue where there are tables outside,as Mikey referred to, and you can hear the music may do pretty well,especially in the Summer.

ROD

  ken said:

Tell the doctors and nurses at the the front line that.

Then why dosen't it happen in 99% of the world then Ken ?

What i am trying to say is that it may have something to do with the perceived acceptance that alcohol is an excuse to commit violence, to me it's just violence full stop & should be treated no different !

Offenders appear to get a better deal when the brief says "it was down to the drink your honour, my defendent is normaly of good character" or the like.

  Bogue said:

Then why dosen't it happen in 99% of the world then Ken ?

What i am trying to say is that it may have something to do with the perceived acceptance that alcohol is an excuse to commit violence, to me it's just violence full stop & should be treated no different !

Offenders appear to get a better deal when the brief says "it was down to the drink your honour, my defendent is normaly of good character" or the like.

What perceived acceptance,not by me....we`ve done this topic to death........and what 99% of the world does means nothing,if it did we might get somewhere.

  Bogue said:

How about they give up smoking ? That way they would then be able to SPRINT up & down the stairs & they would have a lot more money to spend on records, hence saving the rare soul scene into the bargin

Regards the argument that drinking is as bad as smoking & why not ban that, difference is with drinking everyone has a choice, it's not imposed on you. e.g. someone dosen't force you to drink their beer in the way a smoker forces a non smoker to have some of his smoke !

  KevinKent said:

CHOICE - yes, that's the word I was looking for!

  Bogue said:

Care to enlarge on that ? don't quite get your point ?

Of course.

My previous input to this thread related to the envisaged problems of not catering to the needs of smokers.

Now, whilst as a smoker I'm not happy with the no-smoking law that is being forced upon us, I do have to concede that non-smokers may consider our habit a nuisance/health risk, whatever, in an enclosed area.

The freedom to be able to go outside for a smoke (your not forced to join us!) would in my view be a neccessity at any soul night.

Unless I've misread your reply (apologies if I have) you would appear to want to condone the removal of that option or choice.

We need to cater for all choices, that's why bars serve alcohol free beer (I think), and why we have 2 room events.

Kevin.

"STOLEN HOURS"

RAMSGATE 21st JULY

  Bogue said:

e.g. someone dosen't force you to drink their beer in the way a smoker forces a non smoker to have some of his smoke !

I'll give it a go if you like. You can buy me a pint of bitter at Cleethorpes and then force me to drink it

  KevinKent said:

Of course.

My previous input to this thread related to the envisaged problems of not catering to the needs of smokers.

Now, whilst as a smoker I'm not happy with the no-smoking law that is being forced upon us, I do have to concede that non-smokers may consider our habit a nuisance/health risk, whatever, in an enclosed area.

The freedom to be able to go outside for a smoke (your not forced to join us!) would in my view be a neccessity at any soul night.

Unless I've misread your reply (apologies if I have) you would appear to want to condone the removal of that option or choice.

We need to cater for all choices, that's why bars serve alcohol free beer (I think), and why we have 2 room events.

Kevin.

"STOLEN HOURS"

RAMSGATE 21st JULY

You did misread me Kevin, or i didn't put it over right. No problems whatsoever with going outside or smoking areas, & to be honest being a non smoker never put me off going anywhere or being with friends who do smoke. But there have been times when i have come home from a pub or club with sore eyes & thought "why do we have to put up with it ?"

That's what i meant by choice really, at least being able to choose if i want to inhale someone elses smoke.

Edited June 4, 200717 yr by Bogue

  Dave Rimmer said:

I'll give it a go if you like. You can buy me a pint of bitter at Cleethorpes and then force me to drink it

Dave if i ever make it to Cleethorpes i would quite happily buy you 50 pints

  Bogue said:

Dave if i ever make it to Cleethorpes i would quite happily buy you 50 pints

could I share with Dave, I think 25 a night is plenty

Bazza

  ken said:

What perceived acceptance,not by me....we`ve done this topic to death........and what 99% of the world does means nothing,if it did we might get somewhere.

What i meant with percieved acceptance Ken is that society seems to have a little bit of sympathy if someone does something when they have had a drink. Whereas i believe that the blame still lies with the drinker ! If it makes someone violent then it's their responsability to not have a drink, it's not good enough to just blame drink !

99% of people can have a drink & all it does is make them happy.

  Bogue said:

Dave if i ever make it to Cleethorpes i would quite happily buy you 50 pints

Well with the bar prices at Cleethorpes it'll actually be cheaper for me to pay for your ticket than it will be to buy 50 pints, so I'll see you on friday

PS if you can't make this year, just send the money for the beer

  Bogue said:

You did misread me Kevin, or i didn't put it over right. No problems whatsoever with going outside or smoking areas, & to be honest being a non smoker never put me off going anywhere or being with friends who do smoke. But there have been times when i have come home from a pub or club with sore eyes & thought "why do we have to put up with it ?"

That's what i meant by choice really, at least being able to choose if i want to inhale someone elses smoke.

Sorted. I guess I read into it something that wasn't there . That's what comes of staring at a screen all day on ebay/SS .

Having the computer in a non-smoking room of the house doesn't help either - I feel like a trapped rat :threaten: . Couldn't be doing with this at a soul nite!

Kevin

"STOLEN HOURS"

RAMSGATE 21st JULY

  cover-up said:

C'mon... if everyone gave up smoking, I think the amount of money the NHS would save on treating lung cancer victims would more than cancel out any loss of tax. Tired old argument.

Nope the tired old argument is the one your putting accross, its a red herring, a duff, load of old codswallop

Smoking generates around 2/3rds more revenue than is used on smokers by the NHS. thats an absolute fact no room for argument!

Along with this pasive smoking malarky, its all boloxs, anti smoking campainers paid for the research buy two scientists in the 80's until they found out that there is no real risk involved, your more likely to catch lung cancer from breating in the air down the high street every day, of course they wouldn't tell you that though would they

  Roccia said:

We in Italy got the smoking ban since a couple of years ago, and we have solved the problem in the typical italian way...

No one is respecting the ban and everybody smokes inside clubs... They couldn't stop drug dealing, how can they stop fags smokers...?

In restaurants and bars the ban is respected.

It will be law from 1st July, like it or not, and businesses (including pubs, clubs etc) will abide by that law because they will be faced by heavy fines if they don't. It will be policed by the non-smokers who won't put up with having to breath in someone elses's smoke any longer.

But why aren't people thinking logically and taking advantage of the smoking ban and do themselves a favour - at least try to stop?

Does everyone want to end up on oxygen tanks because they've got lung cancer and can't breath without one. The trouble is, everyone thinks it's not going to happen to them. Another excuse is - and I don't think a lot will admit to it, but they think they can't survive because basically they're addicted to this drug and all those evil chemicals. How wrong can you be.

I suppose you'd think I was a non-smoker, well you'd be wrong.

I don't agree with how the government think they can dictate things like this to us. They're even thinking of taxing us if we live somewhere that has a good view, how pathetic is that!!! :angry:

I,for one, am taking advantage of the new law and the freebies that have been on offer to help stave off the cravings. My last puff was in January. Believe me all you smokers, you'd be doing yourselves the biggest favour ever and you'd have all that extra cash - if only you could look for the positives in all this and stop bleeting on about your rights

Give it a go, it's not as hard as you think

yep,I will pack it in ...did do, stopped for about 6 month..then I started having the odd cigar when I was out....down hill from then....gonna try that new drug thing this time...sure I will quit

Bazza

  bazza said:

Well ,I find myself in total agreement with you again Pete...............very worrying

Bazza

Will you please stop being so nicey nicey , I love it when you two argue

  Bogue said:

What i meant with percieved acceptance Ken is that society seems to have a little bit of sympathy if someone does something when they have had a drink. Whereas i believe that the blame still lies with the drinker ! If it makes someone violent then it's their responsability to not have a drink, it's not good enough to just blame drink !

99% of people can have a drink & all it does is make them happy.

all it does is make em`happy,99% of drinkers are just happy.......pull the other one,its got bells on it.

Edited June 4, 200717 yr by ken

  MAK said:

Will you please stop being so nicey nicey , I love it when you two argue

Im always nicey nicey.....more or less Mak

Bazza

  ken said:

all it does is make em`happy,99% of drinkers are just happy.......pull the other one,its got bells on it.

Alright then, 98%.

Anyway p*** off i'm having a drink