Unreleased Material, Going On Your Own, Pointers Please

[Guest sigher the gutter snype]

ok since being in touch with the owner of owl records i have 8 unreleased tracks by

the group WEE

some nice midtempo stuff in there, and all well produced and sung.

think a re-issue of the rare "you can fly in my aeroplane" accompanied by the other ureleased tracks

would be a great cd for 70's soul lovers

of course what i wouldnt mind knowing before i jump head first is

1 is it worth having a punt yourself and starting up a label to get the material out?

2 is there a market for said material on cd where the owner can be happy with sales and myself for my efforts?

3 how hard is the distribution of the cd's or can you do this on your own, via a homepage etc...?

4 how much promotion do you need for this kind of material or does this stuff really just need word of mouth to survive the market?

of course nothing is concrete and im mearly putting out a few feelers and hope the experience of this site may help

thanks

[Simon M]

Its worth a go , try a pm to Lotusland on here

[Dave Thorley]

ok since being in touch with the owner of owl records i have 8 unreleased tracks by

the group WEE

some nice midtempo stuff in there, and all well produced and sung.

think a re-issue of the rare "you can fly in my aeroplane" accompanied by the other ureleased tracks

would be a great cd for 70's soul lovers

of course what i wouldnt mind knowing before i jump head first is

1 is it worth having a punt yourself and starting up a label to get the material out?

2 is there a market for said material on cd where the owner can be happy with sales and myself for my efforts?

3 how hard is the distribution of the cd's or can you do this on your own, via a homepage etc...?

4 how much promotion do you need for this kind of material or does this stuff really just need word of mouth to survive the market?

of course nothing is concrete and im mearly putting out a few feelers and hope the experience of this site may help

thanks

First question what are you trying to achieve.

If you want to get great exposure, for the artists and producer. Take it to a know label (i.e. Grapevine), but there are others. They have good distribution deals, contacts in the media, and radio dj's, all adding to exposure.

If you want to make the most money for yourself. Then put it out on your own, but it may take a few releases before your sales really take off, as you have to build all the above.

[Karlm]

Tenyu can probably share his experience of setting up his own label:

https://www.hollygroverecords.com/index.php?act=releases

Sounds interesting!

[Guest]

ok since being in touch with the owner of owl records i have 8 unreleased tracks by

the group WEE

some nice midtempo stuff in there, and all well produced and sung.

think a re-issue of the rare "you can fly in my aeroplane" accompanied by the other ureleased tracks

would be a great cd for 70's soul lovers

of course what i wouldnt mind knowing before i jump head first is

1 is it worth having a punt yourself and starting up a label to get the material out?

2 is there a market for said material on cd where the owner can be happy with sales and myself for my efforts?

3 how hard is the distribution of the cd's or can you do this on your own, via a homepage etc...?

4 how much promotion do you need for this kind of material or does this stuff really just need word of mouth to survive the market?

of course nothing is concrete and im mearly putting out a few feelers and hope the experience of this site may help

thanks

Try speaking to Paul Mooney (millbrand), sure he can help you out or give you some pointers etc.

[Guest sigher the gutter snype]

thanks for all that input

i have spoken to a bigger label but i think there turnaround i getting material out is like next year

so thought that a little to long to wait.

dont think me and tenyu see eye to eye as he felt i was rude when i offered a soul artist $100 for one of his 45's

so think that avenue is out of the question

maybe i'll give it a go for myself and see what happens.

i guess i want the owner to do well out of it, and if i can make a few pennies on the way to buy some records that

would keep me happy.

thanks all you boys anyway

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

I think it would be harder to start a label to get out lots of unreleased stuff or whatever albums etc from bands previously in the music buisness then it is to start a record label which will house newer bands.

It is simple to imagine you have or know 1 or 2 bands locally and you try and set up a small record label and before you know it. you have a nice small roster of acts and given if you had the money, bigger acts could sign up. Not so much as easy if you wanted the older acts and there music released surely you would need to ask permisson for such release then whoever owned the music ie released on RCA owned by SONY BMG surely they would rather release such tracks or given it's Motown they may have in the pipeline some obvious re-issue of albums due with bonus unreleased stuff.

Bit like imaginging a small label who once had the few releases of well known bands before they became famous, you could have been lucky to try and cash in on there success if you had later on re-release or whatever releases of there music

[funkyfeet]

Grapevine is no longer an option, the label is now defunct. If the tracks are half decent maybe vinyl releases are a better option as less chance of them being duplicated, cd's are much to easy to do. As previously stated speak to Paul or you could try Rob Moss at Hayley.

[Guest Paul]

Grapevine is no longer an option, the label is now defunct. If the tracks are half decent maybe vinyl releases are a better option as less chance of them being duplicated, cd's are much to easy to do. As previously stated speak to Paul or you could try Rob Moss at Hayley.

Yes, Grapevine will cease trading after the release of their next album (which is due out on Monday) but I will still be busy running Millbrand Music and the Selecta and Shotgun labels.

I'm also working with another new label which is being launched in June.

Meanwhile, all Grapevine albums are still available from Garry Cape and the Grapevine / Soul Junction 45s are available from Soul Bowl.

Best regards,

Paul Mooney

www.millbrand.com

[Guest Paul]

ok since being in touch with the owner of owl records i have 8 unreleased tracks by

the group WEE

some nice midtempo stuff in there, and all well produced and sung.

think a re-issue of the rare "you can fly in my aeroplane" accompanied by the other ureleased tracks

would be a great cd for 70's soul lovers

of course what i wouldnt mind knowing before i jump head first is

1 is it worth having a punt yourself and starting up a label to get the material out?

2 is there a market for said material on cd where the owner can be happy with sales and myself for my efforts?

3 how hard is the distribution of the cd's or can you do this on your own, via a homepage etc...?

4 how much promotion do you need for this kind of material or does this stuff really just need word of mouth to survive the market?

of course nothing is concrete and im mearly putting out a few feelers and hope the experience of this site may help

thanks

The general answer is don't let anyone put you off if you're really determined but it has to be said that the music industry has never been so difficult before. Sales are way down, dealer prices are falling, retail outlets are fewer, it's often hard to get paid and unlawful copying of CDs continues to increase.

But some small labels can survive providing that unnecessary overheads are kept low and providing you don't mind working for nothing (or less) sometimes.

Some operators have it much easier of course because they don't pay licensing royalties, mechanical royalties and corporation taxes etc ...but that's another subject.

Paul Mooney

www.millbrand.com

[Guest sigher the gutter snype]

yeah ive just had a good long chat with someone wiser than me and it looks like i shall

keep the material for now and maybe just put the better tracks down on vinyl for myself to enjoy

and maybe play out if i get the chance

shame as i thought all this would have made a good cd, but what with the music industry being what it is today

think it just wouldnt be worth it for myself or for the owner.

thanks for everyones help though

[Guest]

Hi Russell,

I'm interested in seeing Wee's material getting proper treatment as I'd want the vinyl worth having myself. The difference over De'Sire was perspective, if you were to see New Orleans first hand I'm sure there would've been no disagreement. I'd be happy to help out with the unreleased material.

Tenyu

[Guest sigher the gutter snype]

Hi Russell,

I'm interested in seeing Wee's material getting proper treatment as I'd want the vinyl worth having myself. The difference over De'Sire was perspective, if you were to see New Orleans first hand I'm sure there would've been no disagreement. I'd be happy to help out with the unreleased material.

Tenyu

hi tenyu

yeah i guess i wasnt first hand on N.O so maybe timing wasnt the best

didnt mean to hurt anyones feelings.

i'll sit down and have a think on the wee and see where to go

thanks and i'll keep you in mind.

russ

[Guest sigher the gutter snype]

ok since being in touch with the owner of owl records i have 8 unreleased tracks by

the group WEE

some nice midtempo stuff in there, and all well produced and sung.

think a re-issue of the rare "you can fly in my aeroplane" accompanied by the other ureleased tracks

would be a great cd for 70's soul lovers

of course what i wouldnt mind knowing before i jump head first is

1 is it worth having a punt yourself and starting up a label to get the material out?

2 is there a market for said material on cd where the owner can be happy with sales and myself for my efforts?

3 how hard is the distribution of the cd's or can you do this on your own, via a homepage etc...?

4 how much promotion do you need for this kind of material or does this stuff really just need word of mouth to survive the market?

of course nothing is concrete and im mearly putting out a few feelers and hope the experience of this site may help

thanks

DO YOU THINK I MAY HAVE MISSED THE BOAT ON THIS ONE?

WHEN WILL I EVER HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO ACTUALLY FOLLOW UP ALL MY LEADS AND IDEAS?

SURE IM NOT THE FIRST ONE TO EVER SAY THAT.....BET I NEVER EVEN GOT A MENTION FOR ALL MY

HARD WORK IN TRACKING DOWN TOM MURPHY FROM OWL RECORDS

OH WELL LIFE GOES ON I GUESS

[Ady Potts]

DO YOU THINK I MAY HAVE MISSED THE BOAT ON THIS ONE?

WHEN WILL I EVER HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO ACTUALLY FOLLOW UP ALL MY LEADS AND IDEAS?

SURE IM NOT THE FIRST ONE TO EVER SAY THAT.....BET I NEVER EVEN GOT A MENTION FOR ALL MY

HARD WORK IN TRACKING DOWN TOM MURPHY FROM OWL RECORDS

OH WELL LIFE GOES ON I GUESS

Hi Russ,

Are you saying someone has released the material then?

[Chalky]

Hi Russ,

Are you saying someone has released the material then?

I was just thinking the same

[Dave Fleming]

Hi Russ,

Are you saying someone has released the material then?

Yes Ady the unissued tracks are on the Lp that`s just been reissued by "Numero"

Dave f...............

[Dave Fleming]

Yes Ady the unissued tracks are on the Lp that`s just been reissued by "Numero"

Dave f...............

Forgot to say this is a reissue of there Rare Lp with the unissued tracks added..........

Off there web site.......................

Wee

$20.00 (Vinyl) / $15.00 (CD) / $10.00 (MP3)

The second in a trilogy of Columbus, Ohio soul albums to be issued on Numero's Asterisk imprint comes from the twisted pen and mind of Norman Whiteside. His lone album, under the pseudonym Wee, is firmly ensconced in Innervisions-era Stevie Wonder, with nary a trace of his work as a writer for Bill Moss' Capsoul label a few years prior. Smooth, sexy, and synthy, You Can Fly On My Aeroplane is a peerless sprawling psychedelic soul concept album. The original nine song LP has been expanded to nineteen, including seven previously unreleased panty soakers. Lovers rejoice.

[Ady Potts]

Hi Dave,

Nice one ! Thanks for that. Will def. buy one of these

Cheers

Ady

[Guest sigher the gutter snype]

Hi Dave,

Nice one ! Thanks for that. Will def. buy one of these

Cheers

Ady

hi ady hope you are keeping well mate

basically the guy from numero got a hold of the guy in question, long after me i might add

even though the owner had given me all the un-issued tracks and also the go ahead to release them

i just never had the funds just being a postman and didnt know if it would be a good investment for someone who has 2 kids if you know what i mean.

so my whole point was a bit tongue in cheek but i bet we have all had some good oppurtunitys snatched from our very grasps.

email me about what you been up to anyway fella

[Ian Dewhirst]

hi ady hope you are keeping well mate

basically the guy from numero got a hold of the guy in question, long after me i might add

even though the owner had given me all the un-issued tracks and also the go ahead to release them

i just never had the funds just being a postman and didnt know if it would be a good investment for someone who has 2 kids if you know what i mean.

so my whole point was a bit tongue in cheek but i bet we have all had some good oppurtunitys snatched from our very grasps.

email me about what you been up to anyway fella

LOL, welcome to the music biz Russ!

I saw this album had became available a couple of months ago over on EMS. It's probably saved you a lot of stress and hassle mate. If you'd have gone ahead and done it you'd probably be facing a load of phone calls from other people who also believed they 'had the rights'! These things can turn into horrible quagmires which can sap your time, energy and enthusiam.

Also worth pointing out that the art of pressing vinyl is becoming increasingly difficult these days. It's just taken me almost 6 weeks to finally arrive at a decent 7" pressing after going through 4 lots of TP's and 2 different pressing plants (see the new Gary The Master Blaster thread for details). A costly and demoralising experience which I could have done without.

So you should pat yourself on the back and buy some more music 'cos you've just saved yourself a whole heap of stress by the sound of it! But if you get anything else along the line then give us a shout. Working with 7"'s is kind of like going full circle for me.........

Ian D

[Guest sigher the gutter snype]

LOL, welcome to the music biz Russ!

I saw this album had became available a couple of months ago over on EMS. It's probably saved you a lot of stress and hassle mate. If you'd have gone ahead and done it you'd probably be facing a load of phone calls from other people who also believed they 'had the rights'! These things can turn into horrible quagmires which can sap your time, energy and enthusiam.

Also worth pointing out that the art of pressing vinyl is becoming increasingly difficult these days. It's just taken me almost 6 weeks to finally arrive at a decent 7" pressing after going through 4 lots of TP's and 2 different pressing plants (see the new Gary The Master Blaster thread for details). A costly and demoralising experience which I could have done without.

So you should pat yourself on the back and buy some more music 'cos you've just saved yourself a whole heap of stress by the sound of it! But if you get anything else along the line then give us a shout. Working with 7"'s is kind of like going full circle for me.........

Ian D

cheers ian, yeah i think you could be right, wouldnt want my ginger hair to turn grey...mmm or would i, i hear you say!!

good luck with yours, i did read that you had some ups and downs, and so did the vinyl LOL !

if i ever get anything im gonna keep a little more stoom and see what happens.

i did give the guys at kent an un-issued, well it got pulled from the cat no soul 45 on kent.

think a couple of copies leaked out, they did say it was going to be put on a comp of theres but seems

as usual with my luck it never happened..

stick to buying records i think

[Hammersoul]

Shame the unreleased stuff never got a 7" release Russ Does anyone know if the vinyl pressing are any good?Like Ian said,sounds like hard work trying to get things out on vinyl etc,stick to hunting down them old unknowns mate.

[Guest Rob_Sevier]

BET I NEVER EVEN GOT A MENTION FOR ALL MY

HARD WORK IN TRACKING DOWN TOM MURPHY FROM OWL RECORDS

For the record, Sigher the Guttersnipe was the first person to contact Tom Murphy, producer of Wee, and hear the bonus material. It was in this very thread that I first heard there was additional bonus material to the wonderful Wee LP. But I did get in touch with Tom Murphy through my own sources, not through Russell. Having already done Capsoul label, Prix label, and Four Mints LP reissues, I know a lot of people there who are connected to Tom from Owl. I have a vested interest in Columbus soul music, too. Besides contacting Tom, I also got in touch with Norman Whiteside in prison. This was not an easy task. Both are getting paid (well) for this release, and I think it turned out pretty solid overall. The liner notes are pretty revealing, and actually managed to fill in some missing pieces from the Capsoul story. But, sadly it is true that Russell is not mentioned in the liner notes, as he was more of a competitor than an ally on this project, even though he was there first. I don't think anyone should be unhappy with the results though (except that the "Try Me" single version is a slightly different mix! It was the best version from the tapes, however).

As an aside, Norman would be very appreciative of any messages anyone might have for him. I have to send him everything through the mail since he can't get on computers at all. I've sent him all the reviews so far and he's been very excited, so any personal testimonials about the music that anyone wants to post (or send me through PM) will be mailed to Norman this week or early next week.

Thank you.

[boba]

For the record, Sigher the Guttersnipe was the first person to contact Tom Murphy, producer of Wee, and hear the bonus material. It was in this very thread that I first heard there was additional bonus material to the wonderful Wee LP. But I did get in touch with Tom Murphy through my own sources, not through Russell. Having already done Capsoul label, Prix label, and Four Mints LP reissues, I know a lot of people there who are connected to Tom from Owl. I have a vested interest in Columbus soul music, too. Besides contacting Tom, I also got in touch with Norman Whiteside in prison. This was not an easy task. Both are getting paid (well) for this release, and I think it turned out pretty solid overall. The liner notes are pretty revealing, and actually managed to fill in some missing pieces from the Capsoul story. But, sadly it is true that Russell is not mentioned in the liner notes, as he was more of a competitor than an ally on this project, even though he was there first. I don't think anyone should be unhappy with the results though (except that the "Try Me" single version is a slightly different mix! It was the best version from the tapes, however).

As an aside, Norman would be very appreciative of any messages anyone might have for him. I have to send him everything through the mail since he can't get on computers at all. I've sent him all the reviews so far and he's been very excited, so any personal testimonials about the music that anyone wants to post (or send me through PM) will be mailed to Norman this week or early next week.

Thank you.

The fact that numero reissued the lp and not Russell might be a bad thing for Russell (although I'm not sure as he may likely have lost money on it) but it was probably the best thing for the artist and label owner and people actually involved with the music. Numero is the best reissue label in that they go beyond simply licensing the material from the owner to actually tracking down the original artists, negotiating payment directly to the artists (even when they have no actual legal responsibility to do so and often in cases where the publisher would keep the money and not pay the artist), and fully document the artists stories with extensive liner notes and photos. I was there when Rob was trying to find Norman, I can't imagine any other label actually being persistent enough to contact an artist in prison via their limited prison phone calls, after they already negotiated the rights. Also, Numero has good distribution and contacts and probably get the original artists way more money than a tiny collector reissue. Finally, I can't believe the attitude of some people who contact artists for records -- they got ripped off back in the day, frequently get ripped off again by the person contacting them, and then the person who did it is secretive about it, effectively burying the history of the artist and ripping them off again. If someone contacts an artist, the least they could do is do an interview and write an article or even put up a webpage. Often collectors boast about finding people, without giving real info, boosting their ego and effectively ripping off the artist again of their legacy. At the least, even after someone contacts an artist and gets records from them, they could put a real reissue label in contact with the artist which could at least help really publicize their material as well as put real cash in their pocket. A few collectors who circulate original 45s for lots of cash does nothing for the original artist except to make their lack of success even more frustrating.

Edited November 12, 2008 by boba

[Guest sigher the gutter snype]

i guess you boys are right and it was no doubt much better for norman whiteside that you ended up releasing the material rather than me. hope he profits from it in some way.

im not going to sit on here and argue and it looks like you did a good job of it.

i suppose more frustration on my behalf that i had the first go ahead by tom to release the material.

im not going to lie and say im just in it for the artist, of course i love to collect records.

[Guest Rob_Sevier]

Seriously, though, if anyone wants to get a message to Norman please PM or post here. I'd like to get a letter out to him this week.