Connie Laverne

[robhallam]

Connie Laverne 'can't live without you' - sold for £918 this week. I got this record in a soul pack in the seventies, there must be thousands of this record around - and IMO it's quite ordinary.

Whilst it cheers me up to know i have records of this value - it just isn't worth it.

Rob

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Connie Laverne 'can't live without you' - sold for £918 this week. I got this record in a soul pack in the seventies, there must be thousands of this record around - and IMO it's quite ordinary.

Whilst it cheers me up to know i have records of this value - it just isn't worth it.

Rob

Doesn't cheer me up, Rob - I gave my copy away, free of charge, to Ivor Jones about four years ago, 'cos like you I got it in a Soul Pack and I thought it had only minimal value...

...could sure use that £918.00 about now, though - even though I agree with you that it's silly money to pay for an unexceptional and really not that rare record...

[Guest]

Apologises for differing with you:

But because you got a copy or even several collectors got a copy in a soul pack over 30 years ago. Does NOT = 1000s of copies around.

The guy who won it, we consider has perhaps the very best collection in the country, guy who he was bidding against, is perhaps the top modern soul collector from France ..

This was our first copy for sale, for almost 10 years. But in that time we've had multiple copies on auction of Al Williams, Bernie Williams, Court Davis etc etc.

Ex-soul pack does not = common.

John Anderson put all sorts of rarities in Soul Packs in the 70s. One stage..I know myself, I put Gerri Hall, Maurice Williams, Lydia Marcelle, Epitome Of Sound into Soul Packs....even the odd Frank Beverley on Sassy. It was just a matter of what was at hand..and if you had af ew there was no hesitation added it to soul packs...

I recently bought a collection from a guy in Wisbech, who bought nothing but Soul Packs.

The funk 45 rarities were amazing, but there were Northern titles like Falcons - Love Look etc, Robert Red Top Young on Soulsations, Jack Montgomery - Barracuda & Impact..and loads of other 45s that made you think why the hell would anyone put these in packs?

There was not just multiple 45s that hit soul packs.. if there were 1,000s they've certainly disappeared. We figure 1 copy for sale in a decade = not too common.

I think we're all forgetting the major "Soul Slump" in the early 80s when dealers just wanted to sell anything anyhow.. it was the classic "we're all doomed" syndrome..

What was you're best soul pack find ?

[Ted Massey]

Yeh but its still average

[Peter99]

Ex-soul pack does not = common.

John

I think a lot of people probably thought that this was the case - and didn't buy soul packs for that very reason. I remember back in the late seventies and early eighties when I was buying stuff I thought exactly that - and didn't buy any packs. I know now of course that I was wrong - and certainly missed out on lots and lots of stuff.

I know now of loads of folks who found lots of goodies in packs - doh!

[Guest]

Yeh but its still average

But is it better than Brooks & Jerry ??

[Garethx]

Not an average record: a really, really good one in my opinion.

Not common either. I bought this relatively cheaply (think it was £25) about fifteen years ago, from one of the major dealers who did not know how to price it simply because he hadn't seen one for many years. I was lucky enough to be the first caller that Monday morning and he told me he was deluged with calls for it all day long. If it's so common why isn't on sales lists every week? Why doesn't it turn up on ebay with tedious frequency? Why isn't anyone selling copies on the forums?

Apparently there is an issue with a b-side: never seen one, but would really like to; has anyone out there got a copy? I think it's the last record issued on GSF. Can anyone confirm?

Edited May 18, 2007 by garethx

[Sean Hampsey]

But is it better than Brooks & Jerry ??

Both great records IMO.

Phylis Hyman had a pretty good version of "Can't Live Without You"... but Connie takes the biscuit!

Lovely tune.

As for the current price... market forces!

Best (or at least, currently most expensive) Soul Pack find... probably Terry Callier "Look At Me Now"

Sean

[Guest]

Not an average record: a really, really good one in my opinion.

Not common either. I bought this relatively cheaply (think it was £25) about fifteen years ago, from one of the major dealers who did not know how to price it simply because he hadn't seen one for many years. I was lucky enough to be the first caller that Monday morning and he told me he was deluged with calls for it all day long. If it's so common why isn't on sales lists every week? Why doesn't it turn up on ebay with tedious frequency? Why isn't anyone selling copies on the forums?

Apparently there is an issue with a b-side: never seen one, but would really like to; has anyone out there got a copy? I think it's the last record issued on GSF. Can anyone confirm?

"Apparently there is an issue with a b-side: never seen one, but would really like to; has anyone out there got a copy? I think it's the last record issued on GSF. Can anyone confirm"

Never ever seen one or heard of one.. would be most interesting piece, as would an Anderson Brothers issue, if one exists..

[Quinvy]

Not an average record: a really, really good one in my opinion.

Not common either. I bought this relatively cheaply (think it was £25) about fifteen years ago, from one of the major dealers who did not know how to price it simply because he hadn't seen one for many years. I was lucky enough to be the first caller that Monday morning and he told me he was deluged with calls for it all day long. If it's so common why isn't on sales lists every week? Why doesn't it turn up on ebay with tedious frequency? Why isn't anyone selling copies on the forums?

Apparently there is an issue with a b-side: never seen one, but would really like to; has anyone out there got a copy? I think it's the last record issued on GSF. Can anyone confirm?

I bet there's a few will turn up now.

[Guest]

Both great records IMO.

Phylis Hyman had a pretty good version of "Can't Live Without You"... but Connie takes the biscuit!

Lovely tune.

As for the current price... market forces!

Best (or at least, currently most expensive) Soul Pack find... probably Terry Callier "Look At Me Now"

Sean

Terry Callier "Look At Me Now"

Was that off me? I know it was in my £3 section in the early 80s I had a box or two of it..couldn't give it away at the time.

[Glynthornhill]

Goes to show that the useless commodity in record collecting is Hindsight .

If we all had a crystal ball we would have squirelled away quantities of Eg Charles Johnson ( Alston ) , Alfie Davison ( Mercury ) , when these were available as new releases for £1.15 or similar.

Connie Laverne has never been an easy one to locate only ever seen demos of this NYC release.

As GSF was going into liquidation around the time of release remains obscure.

But who decides the real worth ?

Supply and demand as John Manship will tell you.

Im sure we have all let 45s go cheap . Mine was Ty Karim £6 in 1981 what price now £500 plus ??

[Eddie Hubbard]

Apologises for differing with you:

John Anderson put all sorts of rarities in Soul Packs in the 70s. One stage..I know myself, I put Gerri Hall, Maurice Williams, Lydia Marcelle, Epitome Of Sound into Soul Packs....even the odd Frank Beverley on Sassy. It was just a matter of what was at hand..and if you had af ew there was no hesitation added it to soul packs...

Hello John ,I remember getting Maurice Williams , Gerri Hall and Soul Communicators [ Fee Bee ] off you at 3 for a tenner ,in the early 80's those were the days !! Best , Eddie

[Peter99]

we would have squirelled away quantities of Eg Charles Johnson ( Alston ) ,

Someone did squirell away my Charles Johnson!

[Tricky]

no ted,its friggin brilliant compared to jimmy delphs dancin a hole.

[Mark B]

Terry Callier "Look At Me Now"

Was that off me? I know it was in my £3 section in the early 80s I had a box or two of it..couldn't give it away at the time.

my brother had several copies of betty lou and bbby adams from soul packs in the 70's quite a few other things as well.

mark

[Barry]

Terry Callier "Look At Me Now"

Was that off me? I know it was in my £3 section in the early 80s I had a box or two of it..couldn't give it away at the time.

Used to turn up in Brian Raes three for a quid box at Wigan often too.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Apologises for differing with you:

But because you got a copy or even several collectors got a copy in a soul pack over 30 years ago. Does NOT = 1000s of copies around.

The guy who won it, we consider has perhaps the very best collection in the country, guy who he was bidding against, is perhaps the top modern soul collector from France ..

This was our first copy for sale, for almost 10 years. But in that time we've had multiple copies on auction of Al Williams, Bernie Williams, Court Davis etc etc.

Ex-soul pack does not = common.

John Anderson put all sorts of rarities in Soul Packs in the 70s.

John,

My own rationale about the 'common' nature of this record is based on the fact that, when I worked on Cheapo Cheapo's record stall in the mid 70s (following on from Ady), the owners used to buy copies of then recent demos from John for, literally, pennies. Including lots of Connie Laverne demos, probably around 100 in fact, that I remember having the devil of a job to shift at 20 a pop. We also had something like 200 copies if "If You Want A Love Affair", 100 or so of "All Alone By The Telephone" and countless others of that kind. All hard to shift then, BTW.

They all went in the end, to all sorts of customers and not just collectors. I'll bet that most of the approximately 100 Connies that Cheap had are either sitting there in the attics of retired 'regular' soul fans or in a landfill somewhere, having been binned by their then purchasers when they had outlived their usefulness.

That's why this will never ever be a rare record as far as I'm concerned, not even if your next copy goes for nine million quid. And that's why I was pleased to pass it onto Ivor for around 10p less than the price I paid for it...

[Soul Shrews]

"Apparently there is

an issue

with a b-side: never seen one, but would really like to; has anyone out there got a copy? I think it's the last record issued on GSF. Can anyone confirm"

Never ever seen one or heard of one.. would be most interesting piece, as would an Anderson Brothers issue, if one exists..

Derek Pearson did an in depth discography of the GSF label in one of his excellant ''Sades Of Soul" mags.

Think he came to the conclusion that there are only demos of both of those records.

I reckon Connie Laverne is a pretty rare one these days myself tho I do remember it being a fiver "tape swappers cult record" during the tail end of the Wigan days (or nights ! )

Got a Ringleaders "Baby........" in a soul pack from soul bowl about 86..............which was nice !!

Cheers Paul

[Ted Massey]

no ted,its friggin brilliant compared to jimmy delphs dancin a hole.

no taste mate

Edited May 18, 2007 by Tedsoul

[Steve G]

I actually think this is a great little 70s record, underplayed and a definate one that hasn't yet really had it's day.

It was the last release on the label, and what a cracking label GSF was.... an issue copy? while it's possible, I'll believe it when I see it. I remember vehermently denying Tommy Tates "If you got to love somebody" on a 7".....until I saw a copy.

As for this argument about there being loads of copies in collections etc. we keep hearing this argument trotted out about so many records, and yet funnily enough whenever this claim is made about a record, as the years go marching on, we don't see many of these "attic" copies ever coming back into circulation....

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I actually think this is a great little 70s record, underplayed and a definate one that hasn't yet really had it's day.

It was the last release on the label, and what a cracking label GSF was.... an issue copy? while it's possible, I'll believe it when I see it. I remember vehermently denying Tommy Tates "If you got to love somebody" on a 7".....until I saw a copy.

As for this argument about there being loads of copies in collections etc. we keep hearing this argument trotted out about so many records, and yet funnily enough whenever this claim is made about a record, as the years go marching on, we don't see many of these "attic" copies ever coming back into circulation....

...and I think that the reason we don't goes back to the point I made in my posting, Steve - a lot of people who bought them at the time don't have 'collections', just the pile of records that they bought when they were young and before weddings and mortgages came along to divert their interests elsewhere. They don't come back into circulation because many of those who bought them - and this is really true of those who bought from Cheapo's stall - probably don't know that there is anything in their meagre and probably tatty pile of old 45s that's worth 'circulating'.

[Guest]

John,

My own rationale about the 'common' nature of this record is based on the fact that, when I worked on Cheapo Cheapo's record stall in the mid 70s (following on from Ady), the owners used to buy copies of then recent demos from John for, literally, pennies. Including lots of Connie Laverne demos, probably around 100 in fact, that I remember having the devil of a job to shift at 20 a pop. We also had something like 200 copies if "If You Want A Love Affair", 100 or so of "All Alone By The Telephone" and countless others of that kind. All hard to shift then, BTW.

They all went in the end, to all sorts of customers and not just collectors. I'll bet that most of the approximately 100 Connies that Cheap had are either sitting there in the attics of retired 'regular' soul fans or in a landfill somewhere, having been binned by their then purchasers when they had outlived their usefulness.

That's why this will never ever be a rare record as far as I'm concerned, not even if your next copy goes for nine million quid. And that's why I was pleased to pass it onto Ivor for around 10p less than the price I paid for it...

I know exactly what your saying but isn't a 100 copies is RARE? Considering 30,000+ people collect the stuff.

This story may get things more into perpective.. in Melton Mowbray in the 80s there was a group called PROWLER a heavy rock band. Their first single they had 1000 pressed and gave them away at gigs in and around Melton Mowbray. I've only ever had ONE copy of the 45 in my life, and today you could easily expect for it to go on E-bay @ £750 -ish.

Another Melton Mowbray band in the early 60s The Quakers had a record pressed in 1964 on Studio 36 worth today maybe £650+ they only had 50 made of this and i've had 3 or 4 copies.

My humble opinion is, that rarity must be equated to present time of discussion.. if it's rare in 2007 it's rare.. there are no logically answers to why records are rare or how they strangely become rare.. but there is one of the over-riding factor with our scene, there are so many people collecting it and serious collectors do not sell.

Maybe we should revise the word rare, and consider and change it to unavailabilty..

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I know exactly what your saying but isn't a 100 copies is RARE? Considering 30,000+ people collect the stuff.

This story may get things more into perpective.. in Melton Mowbray in the 80s there was a group called PROWLER a heavy rock band. Their first single they had 1000 pressed and gave them away at gigs in and around Melton Mowbray. I've only ever had ONE copy of the 45 in my life, and today you could easily expect for it to go on E-bay @ £750 -ish.

Another Melton Mowbray band in the early 60s The Quakers had a record pressed in 1964 on Studio 36 worth today maybe £650+ they only had 50 made of this and i've had 3 or 4 copies.

My humble opinion is, that rarity must be equated to present time of discussion.. if it's rare in 2007 it's rare.. there are no logically answers to why records are rare or how they strangely become rare.. but there is one of the over-riding factor with our scene, there are so many people collecting it and serious collectors do not sell.

Maybe we should revise the word rare, and consider and change it to unavailabilty..

I'm sure that Cheapo's 100 Connie's was just the tip of the iceberg as far as John A's stock was concerned, John. And I, too, know all about how once common records just seem to vanish into thin air eventually - they must do, where else could all of those red and white Island's and Doctor Bird's have gone that I used to leave behind in the early 70s, simply because the number of reggae collectors in the world was probably less than 20 at that time, and we all had everything we wanted?

Even Oxfam copies of Paul Young and Phil Collins albums will dry up eventually - granted it will never make them 'rare', just 'unavailable' and I think that you're right that we should describe something like Connie Laverne - pressed in quantity, like most demos are, and once readily available to anyone with 50P in their pocket - as 'scarce' or, indeed, 'unavailable' rather than 'rare', which is a word that should only be applied to the likes of, say, Junior McCants on King - which even the King singles library does not have a copy of (there's a sleeve in the place where it should be with a note attached saying 'given to Charles Spurling on (whatever date)'.

Now that IS rare, and you'll never hear me arguing otherwise...

[Guest Awake 502]

I know exactly what your saying but isn't a 100 copies is RARE? Considering 30,000+ people collect the stuff.

I used to help out at Flipside Records in Rotherham mid 70's, they had at least 50 copies of Ronnie McNeir on Deto, plus boxes of "Don't turn your back on me" on Baracuda, does this make them common records ?

[Derek Pearson]

Fact: Connie Laverne is a wonderful, wonderful tune.

Question: Would it be so coveted if it wasn't so rare?

Answer: Probably yes due to its exceptional quality.

Statement: Yes it was the last release on the label as far as I know. In fact being the obsessive I am I've drafted a piece, albeit a small one, titled "Infamous last releases". It's quite an illustrious group of records.

Question: Does an issue exist?

Reply: Surely one would have turned up by now? Just consider the scene "New York, sometime 1973, the A&R men at GSF have got wind the label's going down the shute. And they still want us to push this record, I'm putting all my promos in the trash can and hunting a new job".

For people that have this record in their collection who acquired said 45 for probably less than £20 20-25 years ago it's comfortinq to hear it go for £900+. But the acid test is - if it was on your wants list today would you pay that for a copy?

derek

I know it's not a test of rarity but can you remember when you last saw a copy up for grabs either on here or Ebay? Seen to think one from Sweden was offered last year. Quick check on Popsike confirms $710 Feb 06 Swedish origin.

Edited May 18, 2007 by Derek Pearson

[Guest]

Seen to think one from Sweden was offered last year. Quick check on Popsike confirms $710 Feb 06 Swedish origin.

And one from the UK a week later for $436... Popsike doesn't catch everything, I know there have been more copies through ebay and from other sources. Not many perhaps, but more. What really matters at the end of the day is demand though.

[Pete S]

no ted,its friggin brilliant compared to jimmy delphs dancin a hole.

The sound of me farting through a loudspeaker would be brilliant compared to jimmy delphs dancin a hole.

[Guest]

The sound of me farting through a loudspeaker would be brilliant compared to jimmy delphs dancin a hole.

I am not very keen on it either, but that's a bit harsh don't you think?

[Steve G]

I'm sure that Cheapo's 100 Connie's was just the tip of the iceberg as far as John A's stock was concerned, John. And I, too, know all about how once common records just seem to vanish into thin air eventually - they must do, where else could all of those red and white Island's and Doctor Bird's have gone that I used to leave behind in the early 70s, simply because the number of reggae collectors in the world was probably less than 20 at that time, and we all had everything we wanted?

I suspect that John A probably may well have got most if not all of the GSF stock at the time....so most of the copies probably came from him originally. It was quite often the case that John got the majority of stock on something - for example try finding a David Sea "Night after night" in the USA - you won't because they're nearly all over here......

Also I don't actually believe that many copies of records that were once around are sitting in peoples 'piles of records' anymore. I don't know where they've gone, but perhaps they do vanish into thin air after all, as you suggest with your Reggae comparison.....A quick survey at work today of 40 somethings - over 70% of them have gotten rid of their vinyl Mostly through boot fairs, threw them out, or gave them away. And those that kept vinyl largely only kept LPs......Why would these "Cheapo Cheapo" buyers be any different?

[Guest Michael Higgins]

For what it's worth, I had Connie Laverne on wants lists for around ten years from around 1985 after hearing it on a compilation tape (Jackie Wilson's "Because of you" was also on the tape -- Robert Fairley from Whitburn, take a bow) and no-one was ever able to turn one up for me. I go for rarer than commonly supposed. And a subtle and fine quality tune into the bargain.

[Sean Hampsey]

The sound of me farting through a loudspeaker would be brilliant compared to jimmy delphs dancin a hole.

Any chance of a clip Pete?

[sepia]

you could just buy.

DOROTHY MORRISON / I CANT DO WITHOUT YOU / BROWN DOOR

basiclay the same & only £50.

[Soul Shrews]

The sound of me farting through a loudspeaker would be brilliant compared to jimmy delphs dancin a hole.

I really hope you don't have a picture sleeve of this

[sepia]

if there was,,he would just be makin an ARSE of himself on it.

ps

what ive heard,when pete does fart he does MAKE A HOLE IN THE WORLD(& the o-zone layer).

Edited May 18, 2007 by sepia

[Guest]

you could just buy.

DOROTHY MORRISON / I CANT DO WITHOUT YOU / BROWN DOOR

basiclay the same & only £50.

Not really similar IMO. I think Dorothy Morrison is a much better record than Connie Laverne.

[Garethx]

Interesting that Dorothy Morrison should be mentioned in this topic. A phenomenal record that was genuinely scarce for years until tons of copies turned up in California about six years ago. Perhaps the same will happen one day with Jeanie Tracy's Brown Door 45... I live in hope.

[Sean Hampsey]

Perhaps the same will happen one day with Jeanie Tracy's Brown Door 45...

Or even with Connie Laverne, Gareth... but I doubt it.

All 3 titles top Drawer.

[Sunnysoul]

I'm sure that Cheapo's 100 Connie's was just the tip of the iceberg as far as John A's stock was concerned, John. And I, too, know all about how once common records just seem to vanish into thin air eventually - they must do, where else could all of those red and white Island's and Doctor Bird's have gone that I used to leave behind in the early 70s, simply because the number of reggae collectors in the world was probably less than 20 at that time, and we all had everything we wanted?

Even Oxfam copies of Paul Young and Phil Collins albums will dry up eventually - granted it will never make them 'rare', just 'unavailable' and I think that you're right that we should describe something like Connie Laverne - pressed in quantity, like most demos are, and once readily available to anyone with 50P in their pocket - as 'scarce' or, indeed, 'unavailable' rather than 'rare', which is a word that should only be applied to the likes of, say, Junior McCants on King - which even the King singles library does not have a copy of (there's a sleeve in the place where it should be with a note attached saying 'given to Charles Spurling on (whatever date)'.

Now that IS rare, and you'll never hear me arguing otherwise...

Tony, with the greatest respect, you're not seriously suggesting that there were barely 20 serious reggae collectors in the world in the early 70's, are you ?

What about Australia, Germany , France , New Zealand, Canada , Japan etc around that time ?

Must say I've always found it amusing that so many on the northern scene have for so long thought that the soul music collecting world has only ever extended as far as a few counties in England ! The old "two known copies" cliche that we so often hear !!!

Amazing the number of record collectors I've come across Down Under in Oz for example who've amassed superb collections of soul music (and reggae too for that matter) over the last 40 years but who have lived their whole lives in virtual blissful ignorance of the UK northern soul scene !!! And frankly, they couldn't care less about the northern scene ....

Which is why one can't help thinking that there really must be more than two copies of Frank Wilson somewhere in the world ... it's just that those who have them apart from Tim Brown and Kenny Burrel simply don't feel the need to trumpet it to the northern soul scene ...

Edited May 19, 2007 by sunnysoul

[Garethx]

A GSF topic on SS a couple of years ago, with mention of Connie Laverne. Hope the link works...

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.p...ic=8988&hl=

[Ezzie Brown]

with regard to people knowing records they have are rare or not knowing, i dropped out of ns in 75 returned around 8 years ago,my brother gave me some of my records back, been collecting all sorts since m return, last week gave my mate a couple of records and just said dont worry about price we can sort anytime , not a lot riding on these few, someone then tells me one is between 500 and a grand depending on condition and seller! so im on here all the time ,niters, e bay, get lists, and still cant know everything ! so people with stuff in the loft have no chance, if you cant find it, the price goes up!! unless you are selling on here, which is very hard as i think people will wait as they know things will pop up sooner or later, like 3 buses in ten minutes,you have all paid top $ then seen 3 copies in a week!

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Tony, with the greatest respect, you're not seriously suggesting that there were barely 20 serious reggae collectors in the world in the early 70's, are you ?

Yes, I am. Reggae did not become internationally popular or collectable until after Bob Marley's success, mid decade. Back in the early 70s almost all of the serious reggae collectors in the world knew each other, or knew who each other were - and that's because they mostly lived in the UK. In fact, there were only a few outside of London, and only one that was well known outside of the UK. There were so few of us back then that we all knew who everyone was. It was the tightest, most competitive collector circle of any I've ever known. Probably comparble to when people started to collect blues records in the early 50s, but that's a little before my time

That's not to say there weren't a fair few non-Jamaican people buying reggae record back then, it just wasn't the main thrust of their collecting habits. But you really would have had to have been a hardcore reggae collector back then to fully appreciate just how small the aforementioned circle was...

When I went to Jamaica on my first (and sadly, only) record buying expedition in 1974, I was only the second serious collector to make the trip (after my friend Chris Lane) and, comapred to the horror stories I've heard from collectors who went in later years, I was treated like royalty. Every record man was so surprised that anyone actually wanted to collect anything that was more than two weeks old. I wouldn't have received that sort of reception if I'd been the latest in a long line of Americans, Canadians, Dutchmen etc.

[Sweeney]

I'll declare an interest in this topic as I love this record and was lucky enough to win one on eBay in late 2001. If I recall correctly I paid $380 for it at a time when exchange rates were $1.40 to the £ (so about £270 or thereabouts).

That was the first one I'd seen for sale in 20-odd years of collecting (not saying they hadn't been offered for sale - just that I'd never been in the right place at the right time). So if there are "thousands" about then the owners must love them as much as I do mine as they're just not offered for sale that frequently. A record being placed in a soul pack doesn't necessarily mean it's common anyway. It meant that dealers felt they would have struggled to shift them because they were too different to the prevailing fashion of the period. I've been told for instance that copies of Jimmy Bo Horne's 'I Just Can't Speak' were initially found via that particular channel.

Is Connie Laverne "worth" £918? Possibly not to those that don't 'get' the record, but there are many big money items that I don't 'get' either. That's what makes the Rare Soul scene interesting. I wouldn't be interested in selling for that amount as the money alone would be no subsitute for not having a record of that subtlety and sheer breathtaking quality in my collection.

It will be interesting to see what effect the JM auction has on the availability and future pricing of the record. Will more be coaxed out of collections? Will it start to get more plays as it has a new 'legitimacy' to the trophy collectors?

[Souljazera]

. What really matters at the end of the day is demand though.

i think this sums everything up really

i also go with dorothy morrison as the better record..

[Ernie Andrews]

So what is the true definition of "Rare" then?

I only know of 2 acetates of Cleveland Eatons - Quasar one -Richard S has one and I dont know who has the other (It was Levine in the 70s)

So is the "real number" make the item rare then?

[Guest]

I'll declare an interest in this topic as I love this record and was lucky enough to win one on eBay in late 2001. If I recall correctly I paid $380 for it at a time when exchange rates were $1.40 to the £ (so about £270 or thereabouts).

That was the first one I'd seen for sale in 20-odd years of collecting (not saying they hadn't been offered for sale - just that I'd never been in the right place at the right time). So if there are "thousands" about then the owners must love them as much as I do mine as they're just not offered for sale that frequently. A record being placed in a soul pack doesn't necessarily mean it's common anyway. It meant that dealers felt they would have struggled to shift them because they were too different to the prevailing fashion of the period. I've been told for instance that copies of Jimmy Bo Horne's 'I Just Can't Speak' were initially found via that particular channel.

Is Connie Laverne "worth" £918? Possibly not to those that don't 'get' the record, but there are many big money items that I don't 'get' either. That's what makes the Rare Soul scene interesting. I wouldn't be interested in selling for that amount as the money alone would be no subsitute for not having a record of that subtlety and sheer breathtaking quality in my collection.

It will be interesting to see what effect the JM auction has on the availability and future pricing of the record. Will more be coaxed out of collections? Will it start to get more plays as it has a new 'legitimacy' to the trophy collectors?

How refreshing to read an informed statement with so many pertinent points in it.

I nearly "coaxed" my copy out of my own collection, but played it and decided I can't part with it.

As I said before I'd not had a CONNIE LAVERNE for sale in recent memory..and it was a damn difficult 45 when played at Cleethorpes..

The buyer or owner always judges value... and rarity is often increased by a reluctance to sell.

But when I see two highly respected long term collector going "big" on a title, this he me confirms "rarity".

Nice to see you use the term "don't get it", so many Northern Soul enthusiasts do not "feel" a crossover soul dancer and are consequently not driven to pay big money for them. Likewise some absolutely adore the soulful mid-tempo.

As for Ernie's Andrews question of what is rare? There is seriously rare (can someone come up for word for that) there is "elusive". but if a title hasn't been up for sale often it is RARE whether by made rare because they are all in collections or rare because hardly any exist is irrelevant, it's the availability that makes a record sit in a "rare" category or should we say "rarely available". Ernie you just gotta ask yourself "how many copies have you had for sale?"

And Jimmy Bo Horne is a fabulous example of a "Soul Pack" rarity.... I would consider 30,000+ collectors divided by 100, 200, or more copies = tough to acquire. When you consider copies of "Bari Track" "Frank B. on Sassy" "Epitome Of Sound" = 1000's of known copies of each title. I myself certainly bought from Dennis West 500 copies of Gene Woodbury "That's Not Half Bad" on De-Val , how often do you see that for sale these days?? I've had maybe 4 copies of Connie L. in my lifetime, so well done to the guy who won it!

[Guest Soul Sid]

hI ALL,

yOU COULD SAY THE SAME ABOUT A LOT OF 45 S-i PAID 5.00 FOR FRANK DELL OFF DAVE RAISTRICK EARLY EIGHTIES,15.00 FOR INSPERATIONS ON MIDAS, I COULD GO ON...

BUT I ALWAYS SAY, IF A COLLECTOR WANTS TO PAY 900 N ODD ITS UP TO THA INDIVIDUAL, NOBODY FORCES THEM.

[Guest mel brat]

Fact: Connie Laverne is a wonderful, wonderful tune.

Question: Would it be so coveted if it wasn't so rare?

Answer: Probably yes due to its exceptional quality.

For people that have this record in their collection who acquired said 45 for probably less than £20 20-25 years ago it's comfortinq to hear it go for £900+. But the acid test is - if it was on your wants list today would you pay that for a copy?

I agree. I like the Connie Laverne side very much, but not enough to pay such vast sums for it, as there are so many great records around! I've sold Thomson Brothers, Charles Johnson, Stevens & Foster, Ujima etc., and plenty Northern classics too (ie. two Jock Mitchells on Impact) , plus many 60s UK label releases besides when times were hard - and for next to nothing too! I'd love to get them ALL back, but would I pay today's prices? Not unless I win the lottery! Times, current demand (and prices) are very different indeed now than they were back then, but heaven knows where it will all end...

However, what I would pay for, say Brendetta Davis if it was super-rare is anybody's guess. I'd possibly auction my body parts (or those that still work, at least!)

Edited May 26, 2007 by mel brat