Is This A Boot?

[Blake H]

I know this has been asked before but does this look like a boot??

Many thanks

Blake

[Sean Hampsey]

The old Boot has a Scripted Font Blake on the word Broadway.

Doesn't look like the Boot that I remember, then again, it's not the same typeface as the issue either.

What does it say in the run out?

Sean

[Simsy]

Popsike listed orig ...

[Blake H]

The old Boot has a Scripted Font Blake on the word Broadway.

Doesn't look like the Boot that I remember, then again, it's not the same typeface as the issue either.

What does it say in the run out?

Sean

Info in deadwax:- Triangle 60828, scratchced LW, and on b side 66-by-258 and triangle 60558 both sides have little circle but I cant make out whats in it. Came from the US some years back, not that that means a lot!!

Good luck in 't smoke btw

Blake

[Trev Thomas]

I know this has been asked before but does this look like a boot??

Many thanks

Blake

hi blake, looks like a west coast release to me...is it on styrene ?

[Blake H]

hi blake, looks like a west coast release to me...is it on styrene ?

Yes it is Trev, thats what I was thinking.

Blake

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Info in deadwax:- Triangle 60828, scratchced LW, and on b side 66-by-258 and triangle 60558 both sides have little circle but I cant make out whats in it. Came from the US some years back, not that that means a lot!!

Good luck in 't smoke btw

Blake

Sounds like a west coast demo - if the letters in the circle are MR (for Monarch pressing plant). AFAIK the boot didn't have the delta number.

Edited May 18, 2007 by Jerry Hipkiss

[45cellar]

Yes it is Trev, thats what I was thinking.

Blake

Hi Blake

Does look like a Styrene West Coast Press, somehow even a scan can pick up a Styrene Press, if you look closely enough.

This is one of the Original Label Designs, on Vinyl.

-----------* BOOT *

-----------* BOOT *

This one is the common Double Sided Scripted Broadway Boot.

Edited May 18, 2007 by 45cellar

[Pete S]

Hi Blake

Does look like a Styrene West Coast Press, this is one of the Original Label Designs.

---------* BOOT *

---------* BOOT *

This one is the common Double Sided Scripted Broadway Boot.

It was also booted as the demo in the top left of the picture, I don't know when but I didn't see one til the 90's. I know it's a boot - I've got one!

[45cellar]

It was also booted as the demo in the top left of the picture, I don't know when but I didn't see one til the 90's. I know it's a boot - I've got one!

Hi Pete

It would come down to the Deadwax in that case,

Both My DEMO and Stock Copy have Identical Deadwax for the Broadway 45-403.

The Broadway Releases did have different designs and Gold or Silver Labels.

hi blake, looks like a west coast release to me...is it on styrene ?

Blake, I would definitely suggest West Coast for your copy, It is the first one that I have seen.

The Monarch Delta Number 60828 dates it at Feb / Mar 1966 >>> Link <<<

Edited May 18, 2007 by 45cellar

[Ady Potts]

I know this has been asked before but does this look like a boot??

Many thanks

Blake

That's nice Blake, looks clean as well.

Talking of Sandra Phillips on West Coast, i've got a "You Succeeded" on an issue.

[45cellar]

I know this has been asked before but does this look like a boot??

Many thanks

Blake

That's nice Blake, looks clean as well.

Talking of Sandra Phillips on West Coast, i've got a "You Succeeded" on an issue.

The West Coast copies, appear to be the rarest format, for these Broadway Releases.

I certainly haven't seen any, apart from these two.

Edited May 18, 2007 by 45cellar

[Sean Hampsey]

That's nice Blake, looks clean as well.

Talking of Sandra Phillips on West Coast, i've got a "You Succeeded" on an issue.

Loks as though your copy of "You Succeeded" confirms it.

Exactly the same font and typeface / typesize.

Sean

BTW Blake. Thanks for the best wishes for London. Should be a blinder!

Was good to see you & Nicky up at Thorne. A crackin' night!

[45cellar]

Loks as though your copy of "You Succeeded" confirms it.

Exactly the same font and typeface / typesize.

Sean

BTW Blake. Thanks for the best wishes for London. Should be a blinder!

Was good to see you & Nicky up at Thorne. A crackin' night!

Hi Sean

Just thinking the same thing, nice find Blake, pleased for you.

[Guest]

Certainly is the Los Angeles, Febuary 1966 Monach press, perhaps the rarest of all its formats.

[Quinvy]

Bloody hell! when I asked about this record no one answered. Do the demo boots have "OKI" on the flip? and is there any way of telling them from a real 'un?

[Blake H]

Thanks for all the intresting info guys, this is what makes SS the great forum it is.

Blake

[Dave Abbott]

That's nice Blake, looks clean as well.

Talking of Sandra Phillips on West Coast, i've got a "You Succeeded" on an issue.

this is my "You Succeded" obviously different label - apart from the really rare green sticker on it; is this east coast - or another issue?

(just played it again, and what a tune!

Edited May 18, 2007 by Dave Abbott

[Quinvy]

It was also booted as the demo in the top left of the picture, I don't know when but I didn't see one til the 90's. I know it's a boot - I've got one!

How can you tell it's a boot Pete?

[Rushden Vic]

Hi Blake

Does look like a Styrene West Coast Press, somehow even a scan can pick up a Styrene Press, if you look closely enough.

This is one of the Original Label Designs, on Vinyl.

-----------* BOOT *

-----------* BOOT *

This one is the common Double Sided Scripted Broadway Boot.

this is the other original white demo in its rarest vinyl format ,the only white boot i am aware of is the one 45 cellar is showing

Edited May 18, 2007 by Tony Parker

[Ezzie Brown]

whats the going rate for this now i know mine is one of the real ones? didnt expect much on it!

[45cellar]

I know this has been asked before but does this look like a boot??

Many thanks

Blake

this is the other original white demo in its rarest vinyl format ,the only white boot i am aware of is the one 45 cellar is showing

Hi Tony

Yes, I agree, your Vinyl White DEMO is more difficult to acquire and rarer than the White DEMO I have.

As I stated earlier the White DEMO and Gold Label Stock copy below have Identical Deadwax Markings.

Both were from Soul Bowl.

I have placed the scans of the White DEMO starting from the Top in order of Rarity.

I wasn't aware that this format of White DEMO had been Booted, any more Info Pete.

Edited May 18, 2007 by 45cellar

[Craig W]

Here's a nice white label promo of You Succeeded I picked up recently.

It has the Monarch stamp , a triangle and 57535 in the run out.

[45cellar]

I know this has been asked before but does this look like a boot??

Many thanks

Blake

That's nice Blake, looks clean as well.

Talking of Sandra Phillips on West Coast, i've got a "You Succeeded" on an issue.

Here's a nice white label promo of You Succeeded I picked up recently.

It has the Monarch stamp , a triangle and 57535 in the run out.

Hi Craig

Another good find, looks like we almost have the full set of Monarch scans for these two releases.

The Monarch Numbering System is such a help for Collectors.

All we need now is the Monarch Stock Copy for "World Without Sunshine"

Edited May 18, 2007 by 45cellar

[boba]

How can you tell it's a boot Pete?

Anyone answer this question? After reading this thread, I think I might have gotten screwed with a boot of "world without sunshine", I thought it wasn't a boot when I got it because the flip is "Oki", but wasn't aware of any other boot. my copy looks like the demo in this thread but has scratched on one side: 66 BY 264-5 and on the flip scratched 66 BY 258. Nothing is machine stamped on either side.

[45cellar]

Anyone answer this question? After reading this thread, I think I might have gotten screwed with a boot of "world without sunshine", I thought it wasn't a boot when I got it because the flip is "Oki", but wasn't aware of any other boot. my copy looks like the demo in this thread but has scratched on one side: 66 BY 264-5 and on the flip scratched 66 BY 258. Nothing is machine stamped on either side.

The DeadWax on both of these above read quite tiny"66BY264.1 --------------------------------LW"

PLUS ANOTHER TINY MARK like a small "v"

If you look on the OKI side just before the "66" there is a Stamp Mark, possibly a poorly stamped "R"

I don't know if the other Original Vinyl DEMO has similar marks.

I wasn't aware of any boot other the one below,

Hopefully Pete will let us know what marks are on the other BOOT.

-----------* BOOT *

-----------* BOOT *

Edited May 18, 2007 by 45cellar

[Prophonics 2029]

Where dose this one fit into the equation. Promo or DJ copy logo is on the other side to the scan above.

Edited May 19, 2007 by Prophonics 2026

[boba]

Where dose this one fit into the equation. Promo or DJ copy logo is on the other side to the scan above.

this is EXACTLY the one I have that I'm trying to determine if it is a boot. There is nothing stamped in the dead wax, only the etchings I metioned before. I bought it from a UK seller on ebay in January. I hope I didn't get burned.

[Sean Hampsey]

Where dose this one fit into the equation.

That 'looks' like a Silver version of the Gold label depicted by Roger, above.

If it's Silver and not WHITE it would appear to be a Proper New York press I'd say.

BTW: Symbol & Eastern label releases share the same characteristics as the Broadway issues & promos (above) which I guess would figure as they were all Juggy Murray (Sue Subsidiary) labels.

On a personal note, I've always preferred "You Succeeded" to "A World Without Sunshine"... regardless of label.

Sean

[45cellar]

Where dose this one fit into the equation. Promo or DJ copy logo is on the other side to the scan above.

this is EXACTLY the one I have that I'm trying to determine if it is a boot. There is nothing stamped in the dead wax, only the etchings I metioned before. I bought it from a UK seller on ebay in January. I hope I didn't get burned.

Hi

Is it on Vinyl and what is in the DeadWax?

As Sean states, It could well be the White DEMO to the Silver Version.

Edited May 19, 2007 by 45cellar

[boba]

Hi

Is it on Vinyl and what is in the DeadWax?

As Sean states, It could well be the White DEMO to the Silver Version.

I noted the deadwax above: scratched into one side: 66 BY 264-5 and on the flip scratched 66 BY 258. Nothing is machine stamped on either side. It is vinyl. It is WHITE, not SILVER, what I have is exactly what was pictured. Thanks for any info.

ps. I agree with Sean about "you succeeded." I actually don't like world without sunshine, but bought it to collect since "you succeeded" is such a great record. I just hope I didn't end up with a boot.

Edited May 19, 2007 by boba

[Prophonics 2029]

If the numbers are correct what about measuring dead wax to play space to determine if it's a boot or original.

[Sean Hampsey]

ps. I agree with Sean about "you succeeded." I actually don't like world without sunshine, but bought it to collect since "you succeeded" is such a great record. I just hope I didn't end up with a boot.

On with the subject of "You Succeeded" ... has anyone else noticed the incredible similarity with The Flirtations "Natural Born Lover" on Josie? (It's the flipside of "Change My Darkness Into Light")

Both "Natural Born" and "You Succeeded" are Sid Barnes / JJ Jackson tracks with an almost identical backing track.

Never heard anyone mention this before... just wondered if anyone else had noticed.

Sean

[Pete S]

Sorry didn't get chance to reply to this yesterday. I also didn't know there was a boot on that design and I was chuffed with myself for picking one up off Ebay for 40 quid, I sold it for double that, but then a week later, another one appeared from a well known UK seller and he listed it as a second issue, which I bought for £15. I can't find it now, must have sold it as a pressing, but there was nothing but a scatched in number on the run off

[Sunnysoul]

On with the subject of "You Succeeded" ... has anyone else noticed the incredible similarity with The Flirtations "Natural Born Lover" on Josie? (It's the flipside of "Change My Darkness Into Light")

Both "Natural Born" and "You Succeeded" are Sid Barnes / JJ Jackson tracks with an almost identical backing track.

Never heard anyone mention this before... just wondered if anyone else had noticed.

Sean

Spot on Sean, I have thought the same thing for many years, definitely the same tune, possibly even the same backing track.

[Guest]

here's my info I took noted some years ago:

BEWARE OF THE COUNTERFIET white dj copies with "OKI" on the flip side, these came from the same source of all the really good counterfeits, made in New York in the 70s..

the counterfeit matrix is lightly scratched in and reads 66 BY 264 - 5 the vinyl is very flexible, deadwax is 10.28mm wide @ the 66

The original matrix reads matrix reads L W (hold the L W @ 6 o'clock) @ 3 o'clock is a tiny matrix mark ER just after 9 o'clock the matrix reads DOWNWARDS as 66BY264-1 note there is no spaces. Deadwax is 11.17mm wide at the 66.

Hope that helps.

[boba]

here's my info I took noted some years ago:

BEWARE OF THE COUNTERFIET white dj copies with "OKI" on the flip side, these came from the same source of all the really good counterfeits, made in New York in the 70s..

the counterfeit matrix is lightly scratched in and reads 66 BY 264 - 5 the vinyl is very flexible, deadwax is 10.28mm wide @ the 66

The original matrix reads matrix reads L W (hold the L W @ 6 o'clock) @ 3 o'clock is a tiny matrix mark ER just after 9 o'clock the matrix reads DOWNWARDS as 66BY264-1 note there is no spaces. Deadwax is 11.17mm wide at the 66.

Hope that helps.

Great, this counterfeit is what I have, I got burned YET AGAIN on buying a record from the UK. I had bought your bootleg guide to avoid this, this was post-the-guide, and I STILL got burned. I hope you come out with a new edition to maybe save me from getting screwed in the future.

re: the flirtations, I like that record a lot too (although not as good as the sandra phillips) and never play the "change my darkness" side. However, I just played the two records back to back and although they have a similar feel, I don't think they have the same backing track at least. I never noticed the similarity before, though, thanks for pointing it out.

[Guest]

Great, this counterfeit is what I have, I got burned YET AGAIN on buying a record from the UK. I had bought your bootleg guide to avoid this, this was post-the-guide, and I STILL got burned. I hope you come out with a new edition to maybe save me from getting screwed in the future.

re: the flirtations, I like that record a lot too (although not as good as the sandra phillips) and never play the "change my darkness" side. However, I just played the two records back to back and although they have a similar feel, I don't think they have the same backing track at least. I never noticed the similarity before, though, thanks for pointing it out.

Sorry you go screwed but buying from the right (honest & knowledgable) dealers, stops you getting screwed..

I'm too busy at the moment for another book I have all the info and all the scans..maybe after the summer I'll find time to put it together.

John

[Pete S]

Sorry you go screwed but buying from the right (honest & knowledgable) dealers, stops you getting screwed..

Not always - sometimes there's just no reference points - I also got done with the same record and I'd never seen it in 30+ years. I may have also unwittingly sold one of these in the past as an original. Give you another example - got a copy of Johnny Sayles - My Loves A Monster - looks to all intents and purposes like an original, besides, surely not rare enough to bootleg - but something just isn't quite right about it. No reference to it in the bootleg guide though.

Edited May 21, 2007 by Pete-S

[boba]

Not always - sometimes there's just no reference points - I also got done with the same record and I'd never seen it in 30+ years. I may have also unwittingly sold one of these in the past as an original. Give you another example - got a copy of Johnny Sayles - My Loves A Monster - looks to all intents and purposes like an original, besides, surely not rare enough to bootleg - but something just isn't quite right about it. No reference to it in the bootleg guide though.

I'm so suspicious of buying from random people in the UK (just because there's so many bootlegs floating around) that I bought a record that was not a bootleg once (moovers "someone to fulfill my needs") and sent it back because the label looks fake and there's no deep city logo, I recently found out it was real. And if I buy from a "real" dealer I end up paying 5 times what I consider a fair price. It's a lose-lose situation. It would be the same issue if I were buying doowop in the US I guess.

[Sean Hampsey]

got a copy of Johnny Sayles - My Loves A Monster - looks to all intents and purposes like an original, besides, surely not rare enough to bootleg - but something just isn't quite right about it. No reference to it in the bootleg guide though.

This was quite an early Bootleg (around 72) if its the one I'm thinking of Pete.

Was done when getting a proper one would have been a weeks wages.

Now it's a steady fiver!

Sean

[Pete S]

Not always - sometimes there's just no reference points - I also got done with the same record and I'd never seen it in 30+ years. I may have also unwittingly sold one of these in the past as an original. Give you another example - got a copy of Johnny Sayles - My Loves A Monster - looks to all intents and purposes like an original, besides, surely not rare enough to bootleg - but something just isn't quite right about it. No reference to it in the bootleg guide though.

* apologies, this one is in the book, I'm obviously thinking of something else!

[Pete S]

This was quite an early Bootleg (around 72) if its the one I'm thinking of Pete.

Was done when getting a proper one would have been a weeks wages.

Now it's a steady fiver!

Sean

Oh I dunno, I reckon this is worth 25 quid, it's a great track

[Mark Jones]

Bout time we had an orig or boot forum I reckon!

Be a great knowledge base for future reference too. What ya reckon mods? (and i don't mean the ones with scooters and parkers! )

Reminds me I got a Sitting in my Class somewhere I need to check on...sure I got it in a John Anderson Soul Bowl pack in 1982 so hoping it's real!

Well my Yvonne Baker was at least...rememeber being p*ssed off cos it had gone up from £11 to £14 for a 100 soul records...oh happy days!

[boba]

Bout time we had an orig or boot forum I reckon!

Be a great knowledge base for future reference too. What ya reckon mods? (and i don't mean the ones with scooters and parkers! )

Reminds me I got a Sitting in my Class somewhere I need to check on...sure I got it in a John Anderson Soul Bowl pack in 1982 so hoping it's real!

Well my Yvonne Baker was at least...rememeber being p*ssed off cos it had gone up from £11 to £14 for a 100 soul records...oh happy days!

part of the issue is that I would never post a question about an item I was looking at on a public auction or list because I would draw attention to it! I suspect it would mainly be a forum for people who already got screwed and just wanted to confirm it.