Please bear with here as this is merley an observation on manys a thread on Soul Source that relates to the same problem up and down the UK and to a lesser degree in Ireland.

Too many Soul nites,my memory might not be what it should,but back in 77/78 we had the biggies,you saved your wee pittance of a wage and went to Wigan,Yate,Blackpool,Cleethorpes or St Ives or even Coalville.

Whitchurch Alldayers had ended and the Locarno in Birmingham was the stand out Alldayer for me,however the point being,this was the choice you had. I forgot to mention Colwyn Bay,Nottingham and other venues attracted crowds too but the aformentioned was where everybody seemed to go.

Having said all that,Allniters at Redditch, the Assembly rooms in Derby and I even remember a few in Sheffeild and Romeo & Juliets in Birmingham were all very well attended.

Should we go back to the days when we have just a handful of venues scattered across the Midlands and North West that dont clash and see what the attendances are like.

We,ve got things pretty good here at the moment,a great scene in Dublin and a more than healthy scene in Belfast. Be interesting if it could all just come together likes it's meant to.

Like I said at the start,it's just a thought........... IN SOUL Kev

  kevnewry said:

Please bear with here as this is merley an observation on manys a thread on Soul Source that relates to the same problem up and down the UK and to a lesser degree in Ireland.

Too many Soul nites,my memory might not be what it should,but back in 77/78 we had the biggies,you saved your wee pittance of a wage and went to Wigan,Yate,Blackpool,Cleethorpes or St Ives or even Coalville.

Whitchurch Alldayers had ended and the Locarno in Birmingham was the stand out Alldayer for me,however the point being,this was the choice you had. I forgot to mention Colwyn Bay,Nottingham and other venues attracted crowds too but the aformentioned was where everybody seemed to go.

Having said all that,Allniters at Redditch, the Assembly rooms in Derby and I even remember a few in Sheffeild and Romeo & Juliets in Birmingham were all very well attended.

Should we go back to the days when we have just a handful of venues scattered across the Midlands and North West that dont clash and see what the attendances are like.

We,ve got things pretty good here at the moment,a great scene in Dublin and a more than healthy scene in Belfast. Be interesting if it could all just come together likes it's meant to.

Like I said at the start,it's just a thought........... IN SOUL Kev

Please do not let me / get me started on this ......

All I have to say on the subject of the the regular announcement of new venues on the scene , that it can only be likened to the scenario at Roarkes' Drift between the British Army and the Zulus .....

Malc Burton

Edited May 6, 200718 yr by Malc Burton

  Malc Burton said:

Please do not let me / get me started on this ......

All I have to say on the subject of the the regular announcement of new venues on the scene , that it can only be likened to the scenario at Roarkes' Drift between the British Army and the Zulus .....

Malc Burton

Be interested in your opinion as what the remedy might be Malc

  kevnewry said:

Should we go back to the days when we have just a handful of venues scattered across the Midlands and North West that dont clash and see what the attendances are like.

What no 6T's at the 100 Club or Jack's? Because you can only have soul in the midlands or north west!

  Supercorsa said:

What no 6T's at the 100 Club or Jack's? Because you can only have soul in the midlands or north west!

Good idea not!!

  Supercorsa said:

What no 6T's at the 100 Club or Jack's? Because you can only have soul in the midlands or north west!

Sorry didnt mean to omit the South my mistake

Just when i was knocking about that's where most of the venues were,

It never occured to any of us at the time,there was in Northern Soul in London.

Didnt even know the 100 club existed then,and yet it's the longest running allnighter.

So no I didnt mean only Soul in the Midlands and North West!

Trouble is, you're thinking solely based upon the 'fraternity' and not beyond it. People from outside 'town' aren't going to think twice about travelling as they'll not know about it anyway. A locally advertised evening of soul will be accessible by 'locals' and as such might bring new fans into the fold

  ♫ Soulgirl ♫ said:

Trouble is, you're thinking solely based upon the 'fraternity' and not beyond it. People from outside 'town' aren't going to think twice about travelling as they'll not know about it anyway. A locally advertised evening of soul will be accessible by 'locals' and as such might bring new fans into the fold

I understand that and thats whats happening today,just meant travelling to events further from home was always part of the scene years ago, Soul nites didnt really mean anything back then,thats what i meant by people travelling to the big events instead.

Theres more and more local events closing every week just wondered what's the solution.

  kevnewry said:

I understand that and thats whats happening today,just meant travelling to events further from home was always part of the scene years ago, Soul nites didnt really mean anything back then,thats what i meant by people travelling to the big events instead.

Theres more and more local events closing every week just wondered what's the solution.

A more intense localised advertising campaign perhaps?

  kevnewry said:

Theres more and more local events closing every week just wondered what's the solution.

Personally i don't think there's a problem, so no solution necessary.

If a soul night has a decent music policy, is well attended and reliable with a good venue, maybe it will survive. If it doesn't have any one of those or more, it won't. I don't think we can stop anyone wanting to open up a new soul night, at the end of the day it will be their responsibility to make it successful or it will close. You might have a point if you are talking about soul night which deserve more support and close when they don't get it, that's a shame but punters vote with their feet.

Matt

Edited May 6, 200718 yr by Matt Male

  Matt Male said:

Personally i don't think there's a problem, so no solution necessary.

If a soul night has a decent music policy, is well attended and reliable with a good venue, maybe it will survive. If it doesn't have any one of those or more, it won't. I don't think we can stop anyone wanting to open up a new soul night, at the end of the day it will be their responsibility to make it successful or it will close. You might have a point if you are talking about soul night which deserve more support and close when they don't get it, that's a shame but punters vote with their feet.

Matt

Excellent post.

Although being a southerner I'm slightly biased.

  kevnewry said:

I understand that and thats whats happening today,just meant travelling to events further from home was always part of the scene years ago, Soul nites didnt really mean anything back then,thats what i meant by people travelling to the big events instead.

Theres more and more local events closing every week just wondered what's the solution.

If having fewer soul nights is the answer, then you have just come up with solution!

  Maark said:

If having fewer soul nights is the answer, then you have just come up with solution!

But that's my point there does'nt seem to be any let up in new events springing up every other week.

If I lived in England now I wouldnt have a bloody clue which nite to go to.

It's like one closes another starts up.

To take Matt Male's point yes i agree a quality venue and music policy is essential,but that does'nt seem to stop those events going to the wall either.

That's why i asked is it better to have a few big events up and DOWN the UK like it used to be or leave things as they are.

  kevnewry said:

But that's my point there does'nt seem to be any let up in new events springing up every other week.

If I lived in England now I wouldnt have a bloody clue which nite to go to.

It's like one closes another starts up.

To take Matt Male's point yes i agree a quality venue and music policy is essential,but that does'nt seem to stop those events going to the wall either.

That's why i asked is it better to have a few big events up and DOWN the UK like it used to be or leave things as they are.

Well, if there is any more Government interference in ordinary people's lives, there will soon be a "Northern soul Czar" who will dictate where and when there should be soul nights.

  Maark said:

Well, if there is any more Government interference in ordinary people's lives, there will soon be a "Northern soul Czar" who will dictate where and when there should be soul nights.

NOW AINT THAT THE TRUTH !!!!!

  kevnewry said:

But that's my point there does'nt seem to be any let up in new events springing up every other week.

If I lived in England now I wouldnt have a bloody clue which nite to go to.

It's like one closes another starts up.

To take Matt Male's point yes i agree a quality venue and music policy is essential,but that does'nt seem to stop those events going to the wall either.

That's why i asked is it better to have a few big events up and DOWN the UK like it used to be or leave things as they are.

Never a truer word .......

Having a good venue and a creditable music policy does no ensure success ......

As many people on Soul Source will be aware , I have recently closed the long - runnning soul nights at The Corner Pocket in Mexborough , South Yorkshire , after 7 years .......

The CP was a quality venue , and had a wide and varied music policy from top guest and resident DJs , of " if a record is good , it is good enough to be played " , an honest music policy that ranged from current dancefloor fillers and monsters , rarities , classic and underplayed oldies , modern / crossover , R & B , to philly or whatever , it meant that the playlist we offered had something for everyone , whatever their tastes .

We offered nothing radial ; just pure and simple soulful dance music .....

That music policy , unfortunately , was considered to be radial by a certain section of attendees at The CP , with one urinated individual on the last night , voicing his " opinion " that he " had not paid good money to listen to shit , and he wanted to hear f*****g northern " .......

Whether some people like it or not , the only way forward in order to ensure the life of the scene - i.e. , the bringing in of " new blood " - is to offer a wider range of music during the night at a venue .......

Example .......

A group of regular scene attendees have a friend or friends , who are / are not really into the music ( they only know the odd bit of Motown or the music featured in the KFC ads ) , that are showing an interest in joining them at a night . They go along with them to a venue , but the night only features oldies or rarities ........

Despite the music being good , it was not to their taste , because it sounded all the same .....

What happens ? They do not come back , and we lose that " new blood " .....

But take them to a night that features a good cross section of music , and this might be the spark that lights the flame ....

They may only hear one or two records that they like during the night , but hearing that one or two records may have been sufficient enough to warrant developing and keeping their interest .....

What happens ? this makes them want to return to the next night , and the next night and so on , hoping that they will hear the records that they liked , or better still , more of the same ......

From this scenario , these new people will become enthusiastic , and as a result , hopefully tell others who are not into the scene , that they will have a good time at a soul night ......

This is how we will gain " new blood " into / onto the scene ......

Malc Burton

Edited May 7, 200718 yr by Malc Burton

  Malc Burton said:

Never a truer word .......

Having a good venue and a creditable music policy does no ensure success ......

As many people on Soul Source will be aware , I have recently closed the long - runnning soul nights at The Corner Pocket in Mexborough , South Yorkshire , after 7 years .......

The CP was a quality venue , and had a wide and varied music policy from top guest and resident DJs , of " if a record if good , it is good enough to be played " , an honest music policy that ranged from current dancefloor fillers and monsters , rarities , classic and underplayed oldies , modern / crossover , R & B , to philly or whatever , it meant that the playlist we offered had something for everyone , whatever their tastes .

We offered nothing radial ; just pure and simple soulful dance music .....

That music policy , unfortunately , was considered to be radial by a certain section of attendees at The CP , with one urinated individual on the last night , voicing his " opinion " that he " had not paid good money to listen to shit , and he wanted to hear f*****g northern " .......

Whether some people like it or not , the only way forward in order to ensure the life of the scene - i.e. , the bringing in of " new blood " - is to offer a wider range of music during the night at a venue .......

Example .......

A group of regular scene attendees have a friend or friends , who are / are not really into the music ( they only know the odd bit of Motown or the music featured in the KFC ads ) , that are showing an interest in joining them at a night . They go along with them to a venue , but the night only features oldies or rarities ........

Despite the music being good , it was not to their taste , because it sounded all the same .....

What happens ? They do not come back , and we lose that " new blood " .....

But take them to a night that features a good cross section of music , and this might be the spark that lights the flame ....

They may only hear one or two records that they like during the night , but hearing that one or two records may have been sufficient enough to warrant developing and keeping their interest .....

What happens ? this makes them want to return to the next night , and the next night and so on , hoping that they will hear the records that they liked , or better still , more of the same ......

From this scenario , these new people will become enthusiastic , and as a result , hopefully tell others who are not into the scene , that they will have a good time at a soul night ......

This is how we will gain " new blood " into / onto the scene ......

Malc Burton

Sorry Malc, but I can't agree with you there. Every person that I've ever spoken to on this scene, has had a seminal moment. Where they have heard Northern for the first time, and bang, it's hit them like an express train, and resulted in a lifelong love affair with the music. And that's certainly true of my own experience....... Just likeing the odd tune, means that they dislike most of what's being played, hardly the recepie for a great night out........And thats the reason we aren't getting much new blood into the scene. It requires a genuine passion for the music, and you either have it or you don't.......Thats just my humble opinion of course.

The last two arguments are imo both correct, you either get the "Northern" thing or you dont, also new blood coming to events might latch onto a few tunes which could keep them coming back.

In my own experience having been away from the scene for a long time,then returning to an aldayer in Belfast the first tunes i heard were unrecognisable... i remember thinking this aint Northern..

But now knowing what the tunes were they were quality 70's Soul records a little slower than i thought they should be for a Northern Soul alldayer but nevertheless quality.

This quality seems to be maintained both in Dublin and in Belfast, so i suppose we are very lucky here.

The point is,it seems quality does'nt seem to make a difference to some of the venues in England, Malc's Corner Pocket for example, if i went to Belfast and Dublin now and heard nothing but "good old oldies" i think i'd pack it all in AGAIN

  Maark said:

Well, if there is any more Government interference in ordinary people's lives, there will soon be a "Northern soul Czar" who will dictate where and when there should be soul nights.

There is one of these already but we don't all jump to the same tune ....No solution Kev,law of the jungle indeed.....

  little-stevie said:

There is one of these already but we don't all jump to the same tune ....No solution Kev,law of the jungle indeed.....

I guess ³n that Steve we'll let this one rest,Suppose we should count ourselves lucky maybe this whole thing is still going after all this time and just be thankful there's people still willing to take the time to organize events some good some not so good, but i suppose you pay your money and take your choice.

Anyway long may it all continue..... In Soul Kev

Just want to reply to Malcs thread on new blood to the scene

I just dont think its ever going to happen now, yes a few here and there, but not enough to sustain the current vast quantity of venues out there or any new ones starting up

the reason in my opinion is the mainstream music thats on offer today,

the vast majority of Northern soul followers were bought up on soul music in general, I was born in 62 & my mom was in to mainstream soul music of that era, Four Tops, Temps, Al Green, Johnny Bristol, Aretha, Gladys, the list goes on & on, as a kid this is what I listened to week in week out, and as far back as i can remember, it was music i liked, as i grew older my own personal taste started to come through, The Chilites were, and always will be my own personal No1 group, but there were loads of others, The O"Jays & almost any thing on Philly, The Stylistics, etc etc, it was to heard on the radio, top of the pops, clubs & discos, when Northern first came to my attention, I wanted to know, what is the difference between Soul & Northern, as at that period I did consider myself someone who was in to soul, so began my journey, Out On The Floor was probably the first NS track i was to hear from an old friend named Ricky (peace) Lee, at the age of 15, I loved it from the first moment i heard it & I wanted more, the point i am attempting to get at is, I think i had a massive head start in making the move over to NS from mainstream soul because i was brought up on soul music, today the kids listen to hip hop, swing , garage , indie and what ever else these music types are called today, and thats what they like, how many of you have sons and daughters who can be constantly heard singing in the bedroom to something they have just down loaded & yes some tunes are nice (swing) but it aint northern, so when we play a CD tape or Single of our favourites, the youth find it hard to appreciate some old sounding bloke who has lost the one he loves, the youth today like what they have been bought up on, and it would be quite hard to detract them from there own personal choices, Northern had a generation of people who were already in to soul they just had to find out what the Northern bit of it was about.

Ive waffled on enough but i hope you get the point i am attempting to make

The current NS attendees, have been there, some have gone away only to return but the bulk are from the same generation, for us to attract a whole new generation which lets be honest in the UK is sadly impossible, I know ! whats this to do with the main thread, but sat here reading the replies I thought i just had to comment.

Im off know to listen to some bird wail over her heart needing a break, LOL everyone

  moggy said:

Just want to reply to Malcs thread on new blood to the scene

I just dont think its ever going to happen now, yes a few here and there, but not enough to sustain the current vast quantity of venues out there or any new ones starting up

the reason in my opinion is the mainstream music thats on offer today,

the vast majority of Northern soul followers were bought up on soul music in general, I was born in 62 & my mom was in to mainstream soul music of that era, Four Tops, Temps, Al Green, Johnny Bristol, Aretha, Gladys, the list goes on & on, as a kid this is what I listened to week in week out, and as far back as i can remember, it was music i liked, as i grew older my own personal taste started to come through, The Chilites were, and always will be my own personal No1 group, but there were loads of others, The O"Jays & almost any thing on Philly, The Stylistics, etc etc, it was to heard on the radio, top of the pops, clubs & discos, when Northern first came to my attention, I wanted to know, what is the difference between Soul & Northern, as at that period I did consider myself someone who was in to soul, so began my journey, Out On The Floor was probably the first NS track i was to hear from an old friend named Ricky (peace) Lee, at the age of 15, I loved it from the first moment i heard it & I wanted more, the point i am attempting to get at is, I think i had a massive head start in making the move over to NS from mainstream soul because i was brought up on soul music, today the kids listen to hip hop, swing , garage , indie and what ever else these music types are called today, and thats what they like, how many of you have sons and daughters who can be constantly heard singing in the bedroom to something they have just down loaded & yes some tunes are nice (swing) but it aint northern, so when we play a CD tape or Single of our favourites, the youth find it hard to appreciate some old sounding bloke who has lost the one he loves, the youth today like what they have been bought up on, and it would be quite hard to detract them from there own personal choices, Northern had a generation of people who were already in to soul they just had to find out what the Northern bit of it was about.

Ive waffled on enough but i hope you get the point i am attempting to make

The current NS attendees, have been there, some have gone away only to return but the bulk are from the same generation, for us to attract a whole new generation which lets be honest in the UK is sadly impossible, I know ! whats this to do with the main thread, but sat here reading the replies I thought i just had to comment.

Im off know to listen to some bird wail over her heart needing a break, LOL everyone

I agree with this Moggy..I was born in 1955...if you went to a "disco" you heard Soul,it was just what they were playing in the Notts areas....just progressed from there..btw I like a bit of "Swing" me sen

Bazza