Does A Dj Own 'djing Rights' Of A Record?

[Simon M]

Hey Mark , I think Dick borrowed some of those records that night

[Guest Bogue]

It's posts like that that can make soul-source such a frustrating place to read at times. Quite plainly it is clear that I said "it is obviously a bit of an oldie" but there is also a connection with Butch and the record over recent times. And I think it is a fair example to use in this thread to illustrate an idea that most people seem to find interesting. And obviously it is an interesting thread going by the replys, some of them very thoughtful.

I think you've been a bit of a wallie with that post to be honest and it's replys like that that make me feel like it was a waste of time starting an interesting topic. But being a thick skinned type I won't take it to heart.

Ok, the thing that kicked of the idea behind this thread is that recently I had a record removed from the deck by another DJ and I was told that the record was his, and he was playing it not me. I was shocked to be honest. I still am, especially concidering that I am very aware of playing unique sets that have as little in common with other DJs as possible. But that is the reason for this topic. And I think it is quite interesting. I've kind of laughed it off now and the person in question appologised that night so no harm done. But at the time I was angry, and am surprised I kept my temper. But it is an interesting topic, how far should the respect to a DJ for what he has done or is doing to the exposure and popularity of a record be taken?

Feverish imagination or not, this does go on.

So Steve Davis does still come on here then !

Great disguise had me fooled

[Mark Bicknell]

Hey Mark , I think Dick borrowed some of those records that night

Possibly Simon...lol i always got on with him, ain't seen him in years, he did have some very good records in the early 80's or did you lend them to him....lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Simon M]

Possibly Simon...lol i always got on with him, ain't seen him in years, he did have some very good records in the early 80's or did you lend them to him....lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

No not me , but my mate Ray did I think Dick was spotted in Dublin a few years ago .

[Dave Abbott]

Dave, honestly mate, if you've got it on original you have to ask no one's permission to play it.

Getting to a venue and checking out what's been played before you go on is completely different of course. That's a courtesy you owe to the paying crowd and the promoter, and you can then avoid too much duplication.

ROD

i do agree with you Rod, but if i am Djing and i know one of the other DJ's is playing out a record that i've got, before me, then i would ask him if he planned to play it first - as i say if never i would never bother asking cos i wouldnt bother playing that record anyway (i did that time but that was a record of contention lol) - its just a matter of respect to the other dj imo.

[Drew3]

I was playing Chase is on at the first Soul in the city (& bought it about '78) to about 50 people hardly anybody danced. Butch plays it a couple of times & all of a sudden you can't move for people dancing to it everywhere as though once a name has played it, it gives everybody the "Yes It's ok to dance people" If I want to play Johnny Howard I will if I want to make an ash tray out of it I will

Does this really happen!!

Sometimes, after reading these debates, I'm glad that I'm a 'returnee' and still learning about records that are common to folks from the 80's, 90's and so on and have no idea who broke them etc.

I like the record being played so I dance or listen, issue over for me.

I can't believe that some on the scene would only go for a record if it was spun by a certain DJ!!!!

What the f**k is that all about!!!!

KTF.

Drew.

[Dave Abbott]

in that case Dave, can i play the Footsie on Saturday

Paul, you told me that's the best record that you own so go ahead...

and i told you a few days ago that you've got no taste

[Guest Trevski]

Does this really happen!!

Sometimes, after reading these debates, I'm glad that I'm a 'returnee' and still learning about records that are common to folks from the 80's, 90's and so on and have no idea who broke them etc.

I like the record being played so I dance or listen, issue over for me.

I can't believe that some on the scene would only go for a record if it was spun by a certain DJ!!!!

What the f**k is that all about!!!!

KTF.

Drew.

Happens all the time, I'm afraid. Drives me mad, the "If Butch plays it, it must be good" mentality of some punters. If a 'lesser known' DJ played it, no reaction, Butch plays it, floor fills! Sheep cannot make a choice of their own, they need to be led. They just follow the bigest sheppard! Never mind Joe Jama, if Butch played Joe Dolc it would be hailed as a cassic by some

Edited April 25, 2007 by Trevski

[Guest Bearsy]

Paul, you told me that's the best record that you own so go ahead...

and i told you a few days ago that you've got no taste

thanks Dave , you just remended me about my lack of taste so i just went out and put GG on again and it still sounds better than SF ,

oops the wife thinks i put it on for her

If i own a tune i will play it only if it aint been played already that night, who cares who owns what and plays what really, i dont know who owns what or what they might have in their box and dont really care (unless its a sale box),

thing is everyone has played everything i have got before me anyway

[Simsy]

Unless I've missed a few posts, haven't noticed too many say they'd mind hearing a good tune spun a few times over the course of a nighter.

[paultp]

Why do you assume the worst though? Perhaps some people haven't actually SEEN an original label copy of a particular record you're playing, and just want a look at it? Where's the harm in that? That's how most of us got to see the classics close up for the first time isn't it?

I wasn't assuming anything, I was saying that people checking your records is bloody annoying. Its generally obvious when it happens.

Someone coming up to look at a record, either to ask what it is or have a look at a proper original, is generally quite pleasant about it and you can have a chat with them. As I said before, I do that myself, only once had a DJ be rude to me for doing it too.

So that's twice I've explained what I meant

[Guest Karen Heath]

Happens all the time, I'm afraid. Drives me mad, the "If Butch plays it, it must be good" mentality of some punters. If a 'lesser known' DJ played it, no reaction, Butch plays it, floor fills! Sheep cannot make a choice of their own, they need to be led. They just follow the bigest sheppard! Never mind Joe Jama, if Butch played Joe Dolc it would be hailed as a cassic by some

What's the matter you?

Gotta no respect?

[Guest garv]

No not me , but my mate Ray did I think Dick was spotted in Dublin a few years ago .

He lives in Galway, had a friend from Galway staying with me last year [ Paul Mullholland ] who see`s him out & about.

[Guest Trevski]

What's the matter you?

Gotta no respect?

Only to them that deserve it, Karen. Think what you unselfishly do for the cats deserves far more respect than some of the ego's floating around the scene.

[Guest Bogue]

Happens all the time, I'm afraid. Drives me mad, the "If Butch plays it, it must be good" mentality of some punters. If a 'lesser known' DJ played it, no reaction, Butch plays it, floor fills! Sheep cannot make a choice of their own, they need to be led. They just follow the bigest sheppard! Never mind Joe Jama, if Butch played Joe Dolc it would be hailed as a cassic by some

Something i could never get to grips with to be honest, it was all just about the records for me, though i accept you have to have a DJ to play them, half the time i didn't know or care who was playing the tunes.

The only ones that stuck in my mind were the ones i knew would play the stuff i didn't like i.e. Soul Sam, when i was out & about in the late 70's early 80's.

To most, & probably you included Trevski, he was/is a god, but to me it was time to go & look through the record boxes !

Looking at this thread as a whole, & not getting at you for starting it JT, can't help thinking that all this petty infighting just drives people away from the scene at a time when it is trying to attract young people to keep it going.

Seeing this, any youngster would be terrified of getting behind the decks !

[Guest Karen Heath]

Only to them that deserve it, Karen. Think what you unselfishly do for the cats deserves far more respect than some of the ego's floating around the scene.

Oh shaddupa ya face!

I don't really know how to spell that!

[Guest Trevski]

Something i could never get to grips with to be honest, it was all just about the records for me, though i accept you have to have a DJ to play them, half the time i didn't know or care who was playing the tunes.

The only ones that stuck in my mind were the ones i knew would play the stuff i didn't like i.e. Soul Sam, when i was out & about in the late 70's early 80's.

To most, & probably you included Trevski, he was/is a god, but to me it was time to go & look through the record boxes !

Looking at this thread as a whole, & not getting at you for starting it JT, can't help thinking that all this petty infighting just drives people away from the scene at a time when it is trying to attract young people to keep it going.

Seeing this, any youngster would be terrified of getting behind the decks !

Naah, he's just a bloke who plays good records. Same with all DJ's. I treat 'em just the same as everyone else, and if they expect you to treat them differently just 'cos they have an over-inflated oppinion of themselves, then f**k 'em! Sam, Guy, Mark Bicknell, Adey, Andy D, Rodger, etc, normal, down to earth blokes, don't think they are anything special, talk to you as an equal, I can respect that. Others, naming no names (but those who know me will, no doubt have heard my tale of why I can't stand this particular fellow, and haven't spoken to him since '95) Self important

Edited April 26, 2007 by Trevski

[Drew3]

Be nice to "own" a record's rights....

The only situation where I can see this applying is if I played a dubplate that another sound system paid an artist to do for them. Those are truly owned by the sound system. So if someone else played dubplates Marley cut for Tippertone in 73, I'd give it about 30 seconds before the bottles fly and trouble started.

And in the real world, I think it's good form to coordinate with the other DJs if you want to play certain tracks. But as far as "owning" a record, I know that lasts until Rania tracks it down and plays it one night when I'm not expecting it...

I'm bewilderd!!!

But not about the above post, just about the complexity of it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I want to side with OVO but as a 'numbpty' I want to hear the tunes that I think are great and the ones that you all know are great but I have not heard before. Makes absolutely no diffderence to me if said record is played by Soul Sam or some bloke who isn't known but has the same record!

Not sure all that makes sense!!!!

KTF.

Drew.

[Guest upsetterfc]

Jamaican sound systems pay artists to make exclusive versions (usually name-dropping the sound system) of the artist's hits. It's been common practice since the 70s. The last sound system I spun with had one cut for them by Sister Nancy from one of her 80s hits.

That's the only place I can see the "exclusive" and ownership come in when DJing.

[Guest upsetterfc]

Hi JT,

If someone removed a 45 from your deck whilst it was actually playing. (I'm not too sure that actually happened though), under the pretence that it was "their" record then you have only one course of action open to you.

Slap 'em and slap 'em HARD!

Problem is that it's usually me removing my record because I'm not paying attention to which 45 is actually playing...

[Steve G]

I agree as it happens. but perhaps you should concider the context that the example is used in before mocking it.someone touched on this point, I think it was baz, what about if a dj who made a record popular on the scene decided to sell the tune carry on playing it off a dub plate and use the money to buy a new tune? how would people feel about that? does a dj have a right to play a record even if they don't own it but used to own it and were responsible for its popularity?

Isn't this precisely what Keb Darge has done? Don't think he's alone either.

[Mark Bicknell]

Isn't this precisely what Keb Darge has done? Don't think he's alone either.

Is this not a little like having your cake and eating it too??? if i'd had cut a dub of all the records i've had through my hands over the years then i would have a room full of the things....well maybe not but you take my point, if you wish to sell to buy new tunes then fine sell them and move on but wanting the best of both worlds seems to be a little odd when you are dealing with in the main collectable rare records, half the point and the whole ethos of rare records is to own the original, first generation and the real deal anything less well at best is second best, owning rare soul records when being a DJ on the scene is often your ticket to building a reputation, holds respect among your fellow DJ's and peers and has to be a paramount consideration.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest in town Mikey]

I guess we all have our own ideas. Having a hard and fast rule isnt a reality, we all have to get on the with things as best we can. Take for example drinks on the floor. As someone who grew up accepting this was the norm I hate it when 'newbies' for want of a better word, take their drinks onto the floor. But in today's society with people worrying about spiking, then I have mellowed and it doesnt bother me any more. Obviously I would prefer they didnt do it.

When it comes to 'exclusives', that is fine for DJs playing up front sounds. Take Margaret Little. Possibly my fave discovery of the last decade. If I am at a do where Mick or Sam are playing it, I go into raptures and have a little shimmy. If another DJ is playing one of the boots, then I find myself a little irked and slope off.

When it comes to oldies though its a whole different perspective. If a DJ pulls an oldie out of his box that he hasnt played, or heard played, for 20 years, and another DJ on that night hears it, and thinks how fantastic it sounds, and so makes a mental note to try and drop the same track into their set on another night, then that is just good work in my view.

Once a record becomes a main stay of the scene, it is there for everyone to enjoy. Take for example, recently Chalky played Wallace Johnson - Baby Go Ahead, and has stirred up a lot of interest in it. It doesnt mean anyone else playing it, is playing 'Chalkies record'. (I'm sure he wont mind me using this example) It doesnt mean that they are playing a DJ X tune, who originally played it at Stafford. It just means they are playing a popular oldie.

My view will be different to most, but then I thought I'd dropped a crystal clear bomb at the beginning of this thread.

[Guest SteveC]

Wow - hot stuff this "can, I can't I" shite.

If you've managed to acquire an orig copy then you are surely entitled to play it regardless - however the nicer person will, quite understandably, seek peace and calm by ensuring that other DJ's on the same bill are at ease with whatever you intend to play. Even I've done that.

My main point is - where does anyone who is DJing on the same bill as Butch now stand playing Davis & Tyler - Hold on help is on the way - after he played it at Jaks the other week and what would have happened if the likes of me had played it at any venue. Not that there's owt wrong with the record but surely the punters have got to see passed who's playing it rather than whats being played.

[Guest James Trouble]

I 've heard it out on occassions since it's heyday long before Butch re-activated it and it filled the floor along with myriads of other popular oldies.

ROD

There we go, you admit that Butch is responsible for reactivating it, you're contradicting yourself. Let's leave it at that, as specific examples are unimportant to the idea of this thread. And I don't think it matters if you specifically feel Butch has or hasn't got some sort of 'right' to play the record and whether or not other DJs should respect it, but I do think most on the scene associate him with the tune's popularity so it is a legitimate example to use, and if you disagree that any DJ has a 'right' to play a record over other DJs then please explain why instead of mocking a specific example. You might even find I agree with you. I have after all, been mostly asking questions and only expressed my personal preference of not wanting to play other DJs records that are assotiated with them. I have not said anything about what others should or should not do. I have only asked what appear to be quite interesting questions, going by the number of responses...

Pikey's Dog has raised a very interesting point about selling one of his exclusives and playing it off a dub plate, as long as he respects the person who has taken the original off him. I think this has been pretty common practice on the scene for a while? I remember Arthur Fenn playing Trace Of Smoke off dub at the first Prestatyn I think, he broke it on the scene so felt he had a right to do this.

This is interesting, because I think most people find this acceptable and it highlights "the rights" of a DJ who has either discovered or made a record popular? But it seems to be putting the ego (not that arthur has much of an ego, he's a lovely man who I am proud to call a friend) and 'rights' of an individual DJ over the very widely accepted principle, and I would argue fundementally important practice to the life blood of the northern soul scene which is the playing off original only records, no bootlegs, reissues etc.

And do these "rights" that Pikey's Dog has highlighted give a DJ claim over a record during a party because the discovered or made a record popular that all other DJs there should respect?

Is it the same as a DJ with an original of the record should be respected and no one else should be playing a bootleg or reissue of it?

[Guest in town Mikey]

Its getting away from the point James, but I think you are the only person I know who associates 'Chase' as a Butch sound.

As for the rest, absiolute 100% quality. Top stuff.

[Guest ZTSC]

Jimmy , if I felt as strongky as you I would have walked up to the decks and had it out with the person there and then.

That way it's off your chest and the culprit knows how you feel.

If other people in the room feel strongly , they should do the same.

Why string it out ?

Kev Johnson

And by the way - your a paying customer and you've paid for what it states on the packet. if the contents are not what they should be - get your money back and buy somerthing else next time.

Edited April 26, 2007 by ZTSC

[Guest James Trouble]

Its getting away from the point James, but I think you are the only person I know who associates 'Chase' as a Butch sound.

Ok, I must be on my own. Makes me wonder why Tim Brown played it at Prestatyn after Butch, calling it "Butch's Johnney Howard" after Butch played "Tim Brown's old cover up" (jo jama).

Irrelevent though. I assotiate Willie J + Co with Jo Jo's and Kebbie ramming it down our throats for years. I don't think many on the northern scene would assotiate it with him though. I guess it's about personaly perceptions and experiences. For my own own personal satisafaction I don't like playing what I would concider other DJs sounds, while they are on the same bill as me. And I always think it's worth giving a nod of respect in the direction of DJs who made tunes popular or who discovered them. But that is me personally, for my own satisfaction and self respect.

I am just wondering how deeply this feeling goes into the scene's DJ's mentality and how far people think it should it be taken?

I don't think there is any right or wrong in this grey area, I just find it an interesting topic that hasn't had much discussion on here before?

[Pete S]

Irrelevent though. I assotiate Willie J + Co with Jo Jo's and Kebbie ramming it down our throats for years. I don't think many on the northern scene would assotiate it with him though.

I associate it with the person I first heard play it - ian levine - and then any Tom Dick or Harry who played it down our youth club. I was\astonished to find this was in demand, in a parralel universe I was still selling this for a fiver as I thought it was mega-cmmon, and I'm only talking about 3-4 years ago

[Speedlimit]

It used to be a Butch C/UP anway....

joe jama was originally played by tim covered as little henry the second copy went to mick h who uncovered it i agree with james .boots should not be played no matter who you are most d.j's may have done this when they first started out say 20 odd years ago but now days there's no excuss as for people looking over the decks at records well if they dont know it and like the tune their bound to wanna see what it is, especially if the d.j ' playing it dont say what it is the scene today is a complex issue but if we all take it to serious then the fun will go

[Guest wrighty]

i think this is where the whole 'hotbox' theory falls down, records will be played, they could be new 'discoveries' or reactivated oldies that certain people (other dj's?) are maybe hearing for the first time, but there's a good chance that its someone like butch being the one discovering it, playing it or having had it in his collection for years and just fancied playing it again, and the fact that he's constantly searching for new stuff to play means its inevitable that he's 'ahead of the pack'...now whether people choose to chase tunes played by him or any other dj is up to them, i dont dj on the 'scene' as such but i'm always getting told that such and such tune is a 'massive butch spin' or 'big for sam and arthur' which is pretty irrelevant to me (no disrespect to those dj's of course), if anything it turns me off because i dont want to be playing or looking for stuff that other dj's are playing, i prefer to try and find new and interesting things myself by (mainly) scouring ebay for hours every day (if you're lucky enough to have the time), calling u.s. dealers to listen to stuff that looks interesting etc, ringing UK dealers is ok but it means you are more than likely gonna be paying a lot more for them having 'discovered' it, a good case in point is the ray agee 'nag nag nag' c/u that cost a well known dj a huge amount as an 'unknown' when a lot of people already knew it and had paid just a few $$$ for on ebay...but dont get me started on that one

i guess what i'm saying here is dj's and collectors with a passion for finding new sounds will always be imitated in some respects simply because they are constantly looking, finding and playing new records....which is surely more important (well to me anyway) than just rehashing whats gone before...of course how they then look upon other dj's playing something they consider to be 'their record' is down to the individual, it wouldnt bother me in the slightest, a dj worth his salt should have plenty more back-up to worry about one of 'his' tunes being played before him

Edited April 26, 2007 by wrighty

[Guest James Trouble]

I associate it with the person I first heard play it - ian levine - and then any Tom Dick or Harry who played it down our youth club. I was\astonished to find this was in demand, in a parralel universe I was still selling this for a fiver as I thought it was mega-cmmon, and I'm only talking about 3-4 years ago

So do you find this association important Pete? And if it is important should DJs respect it? Can it be taken a step further, should or do dancers respect it? Like Mikey has highlighted, he won't dance to bootlegs of his favourate record. Perhaps some dancers feel the same about tunes they assotiate with certain DJs? They have trouble getting as enthusiastic about a tune if the 'wrong DJ' is playing it?

Again, just a question and I'm not saying there is any right or wrong in this grey area. "Feverish imagination" or not, I do suspect and Mikey is a good example of this that dance floors, or specific elements of a dance floor react differently depending on who is playing a record that may be assotiated with a specific DJ?

Really it doesn't matter, does it? But there is something to this I think. Records being assotiated with specific DJs and the effect this association has to the interaction within the society at the party and how far this assotiation should be respected...

Edited April 26, 2007 by James Trouble

[Pete S]

So do you find this association important Pete?

No, not in the same way that you do I guess, I hear a record lets say for example The Inspirations - No One Can Take Your Place and it'll remind me of Richard Searling or even say Garnet Mimms, actually reminds me of Keith Minshull but the key word is remind rather than associate because as I said earlier, everyone had the same records more or less. Don Gardner for instance, the first person to play this at Wigan was Pep but it's associated with Richard.

Don't think it makes a lot of difference and a the end of the day, these people have no rights over the records, they are just lucky enough (or rich enough) to have a copy

[Guest James Trouble]

i guess what i'm saying here is dj's and collectors with a passion for finding new sounds will always be imitated in some respects simply because they are constantly looking, finding and playing new records....which is surely more important (well to me anyway) than just rehashing whats gone before...of course how they then look upon other dj's playing something they consider to be 'their record' is down to the individual, it wouldnt bother me in the slightest, a dj worth his salt should have plenty more back-up to worry about one of 'his' tunes being played before him

This must be an intersting topic if it's got Wrighty out the woodwork. Or maybe he's looking at same paint dry as me and is twiddling his thumbs as well? :angry:

This is the point for me. I personally respect other DJs and what they are doing. If other DJs are playing tunes, I tend to drop them like hot potatoes and look for new tunes. But if another DJ pays me a back handed compliment by playing somthing I've been hammering (or maybe they don't even concider it to be something I've been playing, after all it's hardly a big deal is it?) I don't relaly care that much, I'll probably just drop it and move onto another tune as soon as it starts to sound tired. And as Ian said, any DJ worth their salt should be able to pull good shit out to spank any DJ who may have played "their tune" before him.

I'm pretty sure that the dancers who are in the know, like Mikey, will respond accordingly anyway if they feel certain DJs are just copy cats and the better DJ will be more innovative + inspirational and have a better dance floor response from being like that.

So is the general feeling that DJs do not have any sort of 'right' to play a record over other DJs that they or others believe is associated with them?

And where does that leave Pikey's Dog and others who sell some of their one off acetates or records associated with them as 'their discoveries' but they still want to play them off dubs? Because it seems people respect that, don't they?

Or are these two scenarios unconnected?

Again, no right or wrong in this grey area, just an interesting point of discussion.

Edited April 26, 2007 by James Trouble

[Guest Dan]

i've just read all the way through this - what a weird, and very typically northern - thread. not uninteresting, though.

i'm with rod, matt and a few others with common sense.

the northern scene is basically all oldies now - reactivations, semi-knowns, used to bes. there are virtually no newies (as far as i can tell from playlists and cds) coming out, certainly when compared with 15+ years ago, and that's no surprise. fact of life.

in that context, the only real debate is original vinyl vs boots etc.

djs are important but the true heroes of the northern scene (artists aside) are people like john anderson, tim ashibende, ian levine etc - the people who discovered the records.

[KevH]

I personally think this is just the worst practice ever, there seems to always be at least one person at a gig who comes up and glares at a record which is on the deck like they have some right to check it, makes my blood boil.

Seen it happen to Jo when she played Stewart Ames, she actually had to hold the record up after it finished to show the guy it had King For A Day on the other side. I played Yvonne Baker - You Didn't Say A Word out somewhere once and some guy came and stood and watched it go round and round for about a minute.

I eventually said sarcastically "It's Yvonne Baker, mate"

"I know that" he says, all indignant "I just wanted to see if it was a proper one"

So I said "Sorry, I didn't notice your armband"

He had no idea what I was talking about.

Now I'm only a small time wanabee DJ so I suppose people think they have some right to check my records but does anyone ever do it to the big names?

Maybe they're interested in what the dj's playin, but of course no-one would want that!!

I hold my hands up,i recently had a chat and a peek at JTrouble's spins while he was on.Could have told me to f88K off ,but he held back .Call it checkin records,call it enthusiasm.Some dj's don't mind,got nowt to hide.

[Guest Simon]

I'm pretty sure that the dancers who are in the know, like Mikey, will respond accordingly anyway if they feel certain DJs are just copy cats and the better DJ will be more innovative + inspirational and have a better dance floor response from being like that.

Most djs on the scene are copycats imo & a lot of the djs who have only started playing in recent times all seem to be cut from the same cloth & think the only way to go is to have obvious & expensive records in their box, you're Constellations, Pat & the Blenders, Tony Galla etc.

I remember someone saying a while back that you should have a big collection of Motown & Soul before you even reach the level of buying big rare NS records, i sorta think that's right & a lot of peeps nowadays are skipping the apprenticeship & trying to be 'A name dj' straight away.

It all seems to me to be about Ego & money nowadays with a large dose of lack of imagination thrown in for good measure. I'm finding it harder & harder to get inspired when i'm out & about & on the rare occasion that someone does play something slightly different it's normally a self indulgent dull set.

A lot of the djs that have assumed the mantle of 'big name' djs aren't as good in a lot of cases as smaller local djs imo, the real 'big' djs that i used to look up to that were genuinely innovative & had real rare records have retired, the likes of Andy Rix, Ian Clark etc.

Saying all that i just feel it's going through a bit of a lull & a scene with as much passion as this can only start to thrive again in the near future imo.

Simon

[Guest Matt Male]

can't help thinking that all this petty infighting just drives people away from the scene at a time when it is trying to attract young people to keep it going.

Seeing this, any youngster would be terrified of getting behind the decks !

You're joking surely? This is and interesting and thought provoking discussion. Everyone on here has had an interesting and reasonable viewpoint, nothing petty about it. If anyone finds this intimidating then they should probably spend their days wrapped in cotton wool rather than getting into soul music.

Edited April 26, 2007 by Matt Male

[KevH]

You're joking surely? This is and interesting and thought provoking discussion. Everyone on here has had an interesting and reasonable viewpoint, nothing petty about it. If anyone finds this intimidating then they should probably spend their days wrapped in cotton wool rather than getting into soul music.

the skin of a rhino

[Simon M]

i think this is where the whole 'hotbox' theory falls down, records will be played, they could be new 'discoveries' or reactivated oldies that certain people (other dj's?) are maybe hearing for the first time, but there's a good chance that its someone like butch being the one discovering it, playing it or having had it in his collection for years and just fancied playing it again, and the fact that he's constantly searching for new stuff to play means its inevitable that he's 'ahead of the pack'...now whether people choose to chase tunes played by him or any other dj is up to them, i dont dj on the 'scene' as such but i'm always getting told that such and such tune is a 'massive butch spin' or 'big for sam and arthur' which is pretty irrelevant to me (no disrespect to those dj's of course), if anything it turns me off because i dont want to be playing or looking for stuff that other dj's are playing, i prefer to try and find new and interesting things myself by (mainly) scouring ebay for hours every day (if you're lucky enough to have the time), calling u.s. dealers to listen to stuff that looks interesting etc, ringing UK dealers is ok but it means you are more than likely gonna be paying a lot more for them having 'discovered' it, a good case in point is the ray agee 'nag nag nag' c/u that cost a well known dj a huge amount as an 'unknown' when a lot of people already knew it and had paid just a few $$$ for on ebay...but dont get me started on that one

i guess what i'm saying here is dj's and collectors with a passion for finding new sounds will always be imitated in some respects simply because they are constantly looking, finding and playing new records....which is surely more important (well to me anyway) than just rehashing whats gone before...of course how they then look upon other dj's playing something they consider to be 'their record' is down to the individual, it wouldnt bother me in the slightest, a dj worth his salt should have plenty more back-up to worry about one of 'his' tunes being played before him

Here Here Wrighty I agree . Its about looking at the bigger picture and finding your own tunes .

I think most people take at least 150 tunes to a gig or do some take just 20

[Guest wrighty]

Here Here Wrighty I agree . Its about looking at the bigger picture and finding your own tunes .

I think most people take at least 150 tunes to a gig or do some take just 20

yeah simon i think what i was trying to say is that you cant possibly rely on just going out to dos to hear new stuff to look for, otherwise then surely you're just copying what other dj's are finding/playing?

Edited April 26, 2007 by wrighty

[paultp]

Is this not a little like having your cake and eating it too??? if i'd had cut a dub of all the records i've had through my hands over the years then i would have a room full of the things....well maybe not but you take my point, if you wish to sell to buy new tunes then fine sell them and move on but wanting the best of both worlds seems to be a little odd when you are dealing with in the main collectable rare records, half the point and the whole ethos of rare records is to own the original, first generation and the real deal anything less well at best is second best, owning rare soul records when being a DJ on the scene is often your ticket to building a reputation, holds respect among your fellow DJ's and peers and has to be a paramount consideration.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Absolutely spot on Mark

If you take the idea to its extreme then you would only ever have to buy one top notch (replace this phrase with rare or exclusive or whatever) record, cos you could then have it cut, sell it on and use the proceeds to fund another. You could build a whole box of exclusives having only really lashed out for one.

I thought the whole point of this scene was to find and own rare tunes that suit what you personally like, for a DJ to have records that they want to play. I thought people who travel to hear certain DJ's do so because of the style and substance of their sets not just for one record.

I had a copy of Sam Williams which I foolishly sold, its not the rarest of records but its not that common, does this policy allow me to play my Grapevine copy?

Also, on a slightly different take, I have one of those "advance copy" white label pressings of Reconsider, who has the acetate? If this can't be determined then can I play my pressing cos its a great tune.

[Guest Simon]

Also, on a slightly different take, I have one of those "advance copy" white label pressings of Reconsider, who has the acetate? If this can't be determined then can I play my pressing cos its a great tune.

Isn't the Stardust copy the first proper issue?

Simon

[Simon M]

yeah simon i think what i was trying to say is that you cant possibly rely on just going out to dos to hear new stuff to look for, otherwise then you're just copying what other dj's are finding/playing?

Down with playlist copycats I say

It was always a case of networking with importers and off scene collectors to try and find new tunes , and pooling of knowledge . Of course meeting John Anderson off the boat was nice

[paultp]

Maybe they're interested in what the dj's playin, but of course no-one would want that!!

I hold my hands up,i recently had a chat and a peek at JTrouble's spins while he was on.Could have told me to f88K off ,but he held back .Call it checkin records,call it enthusiasm.Some dj's don't mind,got nowt to hide.

I refer you to the answer given in my previous post

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.p...st&p=489094

That's 3 times

[paultp]

Isn't the Stardust copy the first proper issue?

Simon

Your're right!

Can of worms!

[Simon M]

yeah simon i think what i was trying to say is that you cant possibly rely on just going out to dos to hear new stuff to look for, otherwise then surely you're just copying what other dj's are finding/playing?

Perhaps this scenario ( DJ's with the same tunes in mind ) is all down to promoters not thinking about their lineups enough .

.. I think diversity is the key and a couple of respected scene types agreed with me at Yarmouth which was nice

Edited April 26, 2007 by Simon M

[Modernsoulsucks]

James, Im really not mocking anything you've said nor am I contradicting myself. The words "re-activated it" shoulda been in parenthesis but it was late, the wife was demanding sex and all my attention was on feigning a headache!!

Putting aside the playing of boots or VC's by big name dj's which everybody agrees is a no-no, what Im having trouble identifying with is this imaginary Royal Circle where dj's are like titled peers deserving of varying degrees of deference that appears to exist in your head, and by the replies on here is a perception not really shared by many others. As you appear to be basing your whole idea on who played what when I think I,and others, are not being unfair to point out that some of the examples you refer to are merely arbitrary and have no basis at all in reality.

Again the guy who took your 45 off is a knobhead, although Im sure I remember something similar with Levine at the Mecca so it's unusual but not a first. However, if some other dj plays something you've got or you return the favour then neither of you have any grounds for complaint.

Freedom of Expression, a competitive market whatever. It's really a no-brainer. You're getting booked and paid to entertain the crowd, not to get involved in some weird courtly ritual with your fellow dj's.

ROD

Edited April 26, 2007 by modernsoulsucks

[Shsdave]

Totally agree its a respect thing, its good for more than one person to be spinning a tune for it to get more recognision, i and one or two other mates share alot of knowlage between us, putting each other in the right directions ect, but if DJing along side one another its your own records or nowt, how cheeky is it if some one puts you onto summin then you go and play it in the spot befor and visa versa.

Totally totally agree on this Baz, it all comes down to lack of imagination & lazyness

[KevH]

I refer you to the answer given in my previous post

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.p...st&p=489094

That's 3 times

sorry, didn't read previous post .must be quite annoying for you to have to answer ( or not), hence ,,,keep smiling!!!!