Does A Dj Own 'djing Rights' Of A Record?

[Guest Bearsy]

I'm not a DJ nor a collector these - and I'm certainly not a member of the soul police. I do though, occasionally like to have a look at something that is being played - out of personal interest. Is this such a bad thing.

yeah it is Pete, buy your own

[Peter99]

yeah it is Pete, buy your own

[Pete Eccles]

Respect for people who break sounds and do a lot for the scene is all well and good but this just sounds a bit bonkers to me. If i've payed my good money for a record i'm bloody well gonna play it, i don't care who is on. These big name DJs have got plenty of tunes they can play. They broke the record, well done to them and thanks but once it's out there and known we can all play it surely? If you don't want anyone to play a record you discover, cover it up. I'm even started to think that practise is a bit backward.

As for asking another DJ's 'permission'...

This is the opposite of an open, forward moving and progressive scene in my opinion.

I take it if you discovered a tune that became popular you wouldn't mind it being played before you got 'up there' after a few punters have requested you play it beforehand? personally ive never really been in that situation but i imagine its dammed infuriating.

[Guest Bearsy]

I'm not a DJ nor a collector these days - and I'm certainly not a member of the soul police. I do though, occasionally like to have a look at something that is being played - out of personal interest. Is this such a bad thing.

On a serious note though . when i do DJ and someone comes up to look at a tune that is spinning at the time and either just wants to look or even ask about it or just to pass a nice comment then thats more than ok with me, it means im making at least one person happy and thats for me what its all about. well i would like to make everyone happy but in this scene thats impossible

[Guest SteveSnow]

I peeped over the decks at a do recently, to see if the copy of 'Crackin up Over You' was white or orange.......turned out to be a black one, and the DJ (quite rightly) slapped me back to the dancefloor for my impertinance. Won't be doing that again........

[Guest Matt Male]

I take it if you discovered a tune that became popular you wouldn't mind it being played before you got 'up there' after a few punters have requested you play it beforehand? personally ive never really been in that situation but i imagine its dammed infuriating.

It's never gonna happen to me but no i wouldn't mind at all, why would I? I don't 'own' the record. I'd play it as well. You're already known as the DJ who broke it. What's the big deal? It's a complement surely rather than an irritation. If another person owns the record as well why shouldn't they play it?

[paultp]

I'm not a DJ nor a collector these days - and I'm certainly not a member of the soul police. I do though, occasionally like to have a look at something that is being played - out of personal interest. Is this such a bad thing.

That's obviously not the same thing, if its someone who just wants to know what something is, or wants to have a look, fair enough - I do that myself. These people are generally pleasant though, its the staring at records-that-have-been-booted to see if its a real one that gets my goat.

[Shsdave]

Sorry no time to wade through all the postsbut.............

Original acetates I quite agree James & of course nobody should be playing boots etc vinyl carvers of issued stuff etc etc but.........

I have used this example to friends for so long I'm sure they're all pissed off with it/me ; The Johnny Howard is a prime example of the sheep mentality on the northern scene, I was playing Chase is on at the first Soul in the city (& bought it about '78) to about 50 people hardly anybody danced. Butch plays it a couple of times & all of a sudden you can't move for people dancing to it everywhere as though once a name has played it, it gives everybody the "Yes It's ok to dance people" If I want to play Johnny Howard I will if I want to make an ash tray out of it I will

[Guest Bearsy]

It's never gonna happen to me but no i wouldn't mind at all, why would I? I don't 'own' the record. I'd play it as well. You're already known as the DJ who broke it. What's the big deal? It's a complement surely rather than an irritation. If another person owns the record as well why shouldn't they play it?

Matt, what about if it was a boot and they played it before you went on, it happened to me once and it was a tad frustrating to say the least.

£150 tune i had and a £3 boot he had

[Guest Baz]

Totally agree its a respect thing, its good for more than one person to be spinning a tune for it to get more recognision, i and one or two other mates share alot of knowlage between us, putting each other in the right directions ect, but if DJing along side one another its your own records or nowt, how cheeky is it if some one puts you onto summin then you go and play it in the spot befor and visa versa.

[Peter99]

I'm a very pleasant young man! I used to stare a bit in the old days - but that was the medication!

[Guest Matt Male]

Matt, what about if it was a boot and they played it before you went on, it happened to me once and it was a tad frustrating to say the least.

£150 tune i had and a £3 boot he had

I'm not talking about boots. Boots and CDs are a totally different issue. I'm only talking about original vinyl only. If you own it, you can play it.

You're right to be annoyed if someone plays a boot or a CD track before you can spin the original. But then again if you're DJing at a venue where you know people have CDs and boots then it's bound to happen. Insist on DJing at Original Vinyl Only places if you don't want someone upping you with a boot i say.

[Guest Bearsy]

I'm not talking about boots. Boots and CDs are a totally different issue. I'm only talking about original vinyl only. If you own it, you can play it.

You're right to be annoyed if someone plays a boot or a CD track before you can spin the original. But then again if you're DJing at a venue where you know people have CDs and boots then it's bound to happen. Insist on DJing at Original Vinyl Only places if you don't want someone upping you with a boot i say.

tottaly agree with you Matt

[Guest James Trouble]

Respect for people who break sounds and do a lot for the scene is all well and good but this just sounds a bit bonkers to me. If i've payed my good money for a record i'm bloody well gonna play it, i don't care who is on. These big name DJs have got plenty of tunes they can play. They broke the record, well done to them and thanks but once it's out there and known we can all play it surely? If you don't want anyone to play a record you discover, cover it up. I'm even started to think that practise is a bit backward.

As for asking another DJ's 'permission'...

This is the opposite of an open, forward moving and progressive scene in my opinion.

There are some interesting points here, although I personalyl don't agree.

But maybe it is like copyrights and inventors. You're basically saying to an inventor, well I'm going to copy you, if you are so good make a new invention. Like Dyson hoovers, if anyone could make a Dyson hoover, which I believe are arguably the best, then Dyson would be out of business. It would be like if the government said to him, "sorry mr dyson, but i think anyone should be able to copy your vacuum, if you are so good you'd best invent a better one so the economy can move forward"

I also do not agree with your point about "I paid the money for the record I'll play it if I want". I don't think money comes into it, it's coincidental that records cost money. I think respect is a very important part of the soul scene, and in life in general, and problems always occur when one person believes another person is disrespecting them. Money should not come into DJing but I do think there is a place for respect.

So is this idea of a DJ having some sort of 'right to play' a record a murky one? Going by some mixed replys on this thread, I think it probably is a very murky and weird idea? I do think there are intersting comparisons to the bootleg DJ debate though.

If we take this a step further, and you say that asking another DJ permission to play a record is weird. What about if you put a record on the deck and another DJ walks up takes the record off and growls "you're not playing that, that's my record, I'm playing it". Is there ever a situation where this is justified?

Edited April 25, 2007 by James Trouble

[Cover-up]

Now I'm only a small time wanabee DJ so I suppose people think they have some right to check my records but does anyone ever do it to the big names?

Err, yes - that's EXACTLY what this post is about - exposing a big name for playing a boot, or a vinylcarver ot whatever...

£150 tune i had and a £3 boot he had

So what? The only difference is you've got £147 more than him... Does that give you more taste? Does it mean you like it any more? Who knows? There seems to be an awful lot of people who think if you don't chuck around hundreds of pounds, then your motives are in question. Look at Keb Darge - nearly his whole set is vinylcarvers nowadays. Does it mean he loves the music any less???

If it's been booted, get over it - move onto the next undiscovered tune. Think it's called hotboxing?

[Dave]

It's never gonna happen to me but no i wouldn't mind at all, why would I? I don't 'own' the record. I'd play it as well. You're already known as the DJ who broke it. What's the big deal? It's a complement surely rather than an irritation. If another person owns the record as well why shouldn't they play it?

There are no written rules but it's all a matter of good manners really. If a DJ discovered, or is associated with, a particular record, you ask if he intends to play it before you decide to.

Not sure this applies to Johnny Howard though, (far more energetic version than the Artistics BTW), because as Pete said it was played in the seventies, and there must be plenty of copies about.

There's no excuse though for removing someone else's record from the decks or any other "militant action".

From what I've seen recently, some of those who are the most sensitive about being able to play "their" records have no such respect for records first played by others.

As for the guys playing Mello Souls, Primers, Margaret Little boots/dubs, the promoters know what's going on and they are as much to blame as the DJ's IMHO.

[Mark Bicknell]

I have lost count over the years how many times x,y,z has been played by the previous DJ's which i also hold in my collection, hard lines and tuff titty really! so what do you do? play something else simple as that and perhaps where the 'Hotbox' falls a little short is down to it's limitation as all your eggs would appear to be in one basket or box in this case, i'm not having a dig 'James' either, fact is if you limit yourself to a run of say 200 records what you consider to be hot, upfront, exclusive etc. and the DJ's before you play several of your tunes as long as they are authentic and sourced in the same manner as yourself then where do you go??? so the exclusive eliment does not hold water really all of the time unless you DJ first or before others, yes for someone to play repro's/boots/dubs etc. is a total no - no and i'm with you on that one, i just feel if you limit yourself to one box of tunes with no back up of a collection as such and a little more depth then the repeat situation or some of your playlist to be played by other DJ's is bound to happen again and again as many of the DJ's pretty much chase the same type of records, rare, hot, indemand etc.etc. I guess if you work on the 'Hotbox' method then the art and challenge to stay ahead of the game must be very interesting and judging by your spot at 'Lifeline' Saturday mate you are certainly making this method work.

I have to work with a bigger rotation of tunes, two main 100 count boxes and base collection of around 1800 records, new additions and so on, more records more choice, select box according to gig etc. for example the box i'm taking to Wellinborough Saturday is at least 50% different to the one i took to a Soul Night at Pilsley last weekend...yet i still seem to play the same tunes...lol before anyone says anything!

Good thread this.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Dave]

I have lost count over the years how many times x,y,z has been played by the previous DJ's which i also hold in my collection, hard lines and tuff titty really!

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Yes, but that's not the point, is it? Unless you are saying that x,y,z are records that you have discovered!

[Guest James Trouble]

As for the guys playing Mello Souls, Primers, Margaret Little boots/dubs, the promoters know what's going on and they are as much to blame as the DJ's IMHO.

That's interesting as well. I complained to one promoter who had booked this guy, and I personally will not DJ at the same venue as him in the future. When I first told one promoter about it, they were shocked and asked me who it was. When I told them their reply was "Oh, but he's god, he's allowed to because he gets punters throught the door.". :angry:

I do think most think it's wrong for DJs to be playing bootlegs at rare soul events. The reason I used this in the intial post was to raise the interesting idea of DJs having "rights to play" certain records, and is it important?

Personally I'm not sure. I follow my own principles, and believe it is important to respect other DJs and what they have done for records and what those records mean to them. But is there the same feeling of disgust when a DJ 'copies' other DJs, in the same way as when a DJ is playing bootlegs?

There's no particular reason for this thread. It's not some transparent personal expose or candid look inside my head. Just some thoughts I've been having on a very very boring Wednesday afternoon...

What time is kick off tonight?

Edited April 25, 2007 by James Trouble

[Guest Matt Male]

I think respect is a very important part of the soul scene, and in life in general, and problems always occur when one person believes another person is disrespecting them. Money should not come into DJing but I do think there is a place for respect.

If we take this a step further, and you say that asking another DJ permission to play a record is weird. What about if you put a record on the deck and another DJ walks up takes the record off and growls "you're not playing that, that's my record, I'm playing it". Is there ever a situation where this is justified?

I also think respect is important, of course i do, but when does respect become sycophancy? It's not a matter of disrespect in my opinion to be allowed to play sounds already broken (and in fact which were already well known by several thousand Americans most likely). If it's only a case of the DJ themselves feeling they are being disrespected then i hope most wouldn't feel that. As i said in an earlier post if someone played a sound i'd broken before me, i wouldn't feel disrespected and I hope the DJs i have respect for wouldn't either.

I'm inclined to respect DJs who don't turn into an Hysterical prima donna if someone plays their 'precious' sound.

I don't want to return to the days when there was an 'in crowd' in the know to the exclusion of others, do you James? People who find new sounds and break them on the scene are great, and they have my respect for doing just that.

You're last example of the DJ ripping a 45 off the deck and moaning is totally unjustified and if anyone did that to me they'd be on their arse, i don't care who they are.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Matt Male

[Mark Bicknell]

Yes, but that's not the point, is it? Unless you are saying that x,y,z are records that you have discovered!

I was speaking more in general rather than on discovered by said DJ's personally, simply play something else rather than repeat was the point i was trying to make.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Pete Eccles]

It's never gonna happen to me but no i wouldn't mind at all, why would I? I don't 'own' the record. I'd play it as well. You're already known as the DJ who broke it. What's the big deal? It's a complement surely rather than an irritation. If another person owns the record as well why shouldn't they play it?

but you can play it to your hearts content but not on the same night as said dj, personally i think it shows a severe lack of imagination if the said tune can't be sidestepped, there is after all a million other tunes! you are probably only aware of and own the record largely down to the said dj sticking with it in the first place, so i wouldn't say thankyou for bringing this tune to my notice by playing it to a crowd thats waiting for someone else to play it!

Edited April 25, 2007 by pete60

[Guest Matt Male]

but you can play it to your hearts content but not on the same night as said dj, personally i think it shows a severe lack of imagination if the said tune can't be sidestepped, there is after all a million other tunes!

My point exactly there are millions of tunes, which is why we should play what we want and no one should avoid 'owned' tunes. Thanks for agreeing.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Matt Male

[Guest Bearsy]

So what? The only difference is you've got £147 more than him... Does that give you more taste? Does it mean you like it any more? Who knows? There seems to be an awful lot of people who think if you don't chuck around hundreds of pounds, then your motives are in question. Look at Keb Darge - nearly his whole set is vinylcarvers nowadays. Does it mean he loves the music any less???

If it's been booted, get over it - move onto the next undiscovered tune. Think it's called hotboxing?

No it actually means he has £147 more than me to spend on a load more so easy to find boots. the record could of been a £20 cheapie and his a £2 boot so its not about the cost its about the principle is it not, i thought it was a rare soul scene not a bloody boot fair , i got over it as soon as i told him he is a but hey freinds can do that to each other. he is as passionate as me for our music we share a love for thats for sure, but he knew i had the original and he didnt care the swine. guess what, i dont get him any tunes anymore as he dont have access to the internet

[Dave]

I was speaking more in general rather than on discovered by said DJ's personally, simply play something else rather than repeat was the point i was trying to make.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I thought you were, but as far as "novel" rare records are concerned, which is what I think this thread was originally about, it's a bit different to "who gets to play the oldie first".

[Simsy]

Just some thoughts I've been having on a very very boring Tuesday afternoon...

What time is kick off tonight?

Blimey panicked me there for a minute!

8.00pm I think.

[Guest barnsey]

imo if a dj finds a unknown record and wants it remain his tune he covers it up and sooner or later someone finds another copy game over and he should just accept it .but if all your mates went out and bought the exact same clothes you bought last week and all turned up at the same venues as you it would,nt be long before they started to get on your tits. and after thirty years of it might just put you over the edge. and as for playing carvers this has gone on for years .big newies dj,s in the eighties included

[Guest upsetterfc]

Be nice to "own" a record's rights....

The only situation where I can see this applying is if I played a dubplate that another sound system paid an artist to do for them. Those are truly owned by the sound system. So if someone else played dubplates Marley cut for Tippertone in 73, I'd give it about 30 seconds before the bottles fly and trouble started.

And in the real world, I think it's good form to coordinate with the other DJs if you want to play certain tracks. But as far as "owning" a record, I know that lasts until Rania tracks it down and plays it one night when I'm not expecting it...

[Mark Bicknell]

I thought you were, but as far as "novel" rare records are concerned, which is what I think this thread was originally about, it's a bit different to "who gets to play the oldie first".

Cool totally agree with you, so basically established records/oldies etc. are fair game which is pretty much my field anyway with the odd personal thing from time to time...lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Matt Male]

so i wouldn't say thankyou for bringing this tune to my notice by playing it to a crowd thats waiting for someone else to play it!

You're saying that as a punter you only expect to hear a particular sound played by the DJ who broke it? When i'm out i expect to hear sounds by DJs who own the originals and that's the end of it. I'd be surprised if a DJ didn't play their copy of say Joseph Webster for example, even if they were on before Mick H.

[Pete Eccles]

My point exactly there are millions of tunes, which is why we should play what we want and no one should avoid 'owned' tunes. Thanks for agreeing.

very succinct! if you agree theres a million other tunes and the said tune is to be only played once on the night, and its between yourself and the dj largely responsible for the tune being popular you think 'first up best dressed' is the best decider?

very courtious indeed!

[Guest lifeandsoul]

If you want to bring respect into it:

bootlegging is disrespectful so that is out,

covering up a record is disrespectful (to the original artist),

DJ's turning up late and doing their obligatory 1 hour is disrespectful to a) the promoter, and the undercard (he probably wouldn't know or care if 'his' record had been played earlier), - in fact you could probably argue that playing a record is respectful to the 'originator' dj as some kind of homage, as if the originator is any good he would have moved on to his next big sound if his earlier sound is now accepted and owned by others,

isn't only allowing one dj to play a record also disrespectful to the artist in not allowing wider recognition of the track

just some more points thrown into the mix!!!!

[Guest Bearsy]

If you want to bring respect into it:

bootlegging is disrespectful so that is out,

covering up a record is disrespectful (to the original artist),

DJ's turning up late and doing their obligatory 1 hour is disrespectful to a) the promoter, and the undercard (he probably wouldn't know or care if 'his' record had been played earlier), - in fact you could probably argue that playing a record is respectful to the 'originator' dj as some kind of homage, as if the originator is any good he would have moved on to his next big sound if his earlier sound is now accepted and owned by others,

isn't only allowing one dj to play a record also disrespectful to the artist in not allowing wider recognition of the track

just some more points thrown into the mix!!!!

And very good points they are too

[Guest Matt Male]

very succinct! if you agree theres a million other tunes and the said tune is to be only played once on the night, and its between yourself and the dj largely responsible for the tune being popular you think 'first up best dressed' is the best decider?

very courtious indeed!

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that anyone should play the tune just to beat the other Dj to it.

What i'm saying is that no one sould be forbidden from playing anything as long as they own the original. That's it. If people want to go and ask other DJs if they can play their discoveries then fair enough, but it seems overly deferential to me. Is there any DJ who actually expects anyone to do that? I hope not.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Matt Male

[Dave Rimmer]

Matt, what about if it was a boot and they played it before you went on, it happened to me once and it was a tad frustrating to say the least.

£150 tune i had and a £3 boot he had

I had a promotor book me, and then DJ before me and play a boot of The Magnetics.

[Pete Eccles]

If you want to bring respect into it:

bootlegging is disrespectful so that is out,

covering up a record is disrespectful (to the original artist),

DJ's turning up late and doing their obligatory 1 hour is disrespectful to a) the promoter, and the undercard (he probably wouldn't know or care if 'his' record had been played earlier), - in fact you could probably argue that playing a record is respectful to the 'originator' dj as some kind of homage, as if the originator is any good he would have moved on to his next big sound if his earlier sound is now accepted and owned by others,

isn't only allowing one dj to play a record also disrespectful to the artist in not allowing wider recognition of the track

just some more points thrown into the mix!!!!

I take your piont that if the 'originator dj was any good he would've moved on but does that not also apply to all djs? so if the undercard as you put it expect the originator dj to move on then shouldn't they? as for playing it more in respect of the artist, it should ideally be only played the once on the night, IMVHO

[Guest barnsey]

has that kettle boiled yet mark lol

[Pete S]

I had a promotor book me, and then DJ before me and play a boot of The Magnetics.

You should take more than one record then

[Pete Eccles]

You should take more than one record then

PMSL

[Mark Bicknell]

has that kettle boiled yet mark lol

Tea, Coffee or Hot Chocolate....sugar mate?...... and some nice Digestives...lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Matt Male]

it should ideally be only played the once on the night, IMVHO

I agree with this. I hate repeats too.

I'm playing devils advocate on here really. There's no chance i would ever play a top rare sound before a top DJ plays it (ever). I haven't even DJed much and my current spot is a load of R&B and 60s forgotten oldies, some bordering on Rock and Roll, so no chance of anyone repeating it or me playing anything they have i reckon.

Pax

Edited April 25, 2007 by Matt Male

[Makemvinyl]

I had a promotor book me, and then DJ before me and play a boot of The Magnetics.

Put myself on last and then get no probs

dont do nighters

and any gyuest spots try and get there and listen to what is played

and dont mind a few requests

dont play em but dont mind them

Doug

[Guest Bearsy]

I had a promotor book me, and then DJ before me and play a boot of The Magnetics.

Kind of makes you think Dave why they booked you in the first place dont it.

[Pete S]

I don't know who said "it should only be played once in a night" but whoever it was, thats utter rubbish, can you imagine 8 hours at Wigan and only one dj's allowed to play the biggest record in the country, you travel 100 miles to hear the top records but if you miss it at 1am you'll not hear it again til next week...you used to hear the same record in 3 out of 4 dj's set because people wanted to hear it time after time...I swear at one point people would have listened to Adams Apples or Frankie Crocker ten times in a row and not got bored with it

[Guest]

If you want to bring respect into it:

bootlegging is disrespectful so that is out,

covering up a record is disrespectful (to the original artist),

DJ's turning up late and doing their obligatory 1 hour is disrespectful to a) the promoter, and the undercard (he probably wouldn't know or care if 'his' record had been played earlier), - in fact you could probably argue that playing a record is respectful to the 'originator' dj as some kind of homage, as if the originator is any good he would have moved on to his next big sound if his earlier sound is now accepted and owned by others,

isn't only allowing one dj to play a record also disrespectful to the artist in not allowing wider recognition of the track

just some more points thrown into the mix!!!!

I dont think covering up tune is dis-whatever,i mean it gets folk listening and if someone un-covers em`thats ok too!!,beside`s if ya`knew the said tune was only a tenner record you`d soon get bored and not bothered,but when some silly more money than sense big dj give`s me say £200 for one of my covers, then create a bigger interest in the original artist and finding out who he is,so every one`s a winner,on the down side you could play your cover-up and everybody in the place knows it making you look a right goose!!

[Glynthornhill]

probably cause Butch spun it it seems to be more trendy.

Simon

Always makes me smile agree entirely.

Was spinning Ronnie McNeir ' Good Side Of Your Love' way back in early 80s. Other djs gave it many spins and it was a well respected 45 around £50/ £75 single to purchase.

Flip circa 2005 ' Oh Butch has that R Mcneir its rare .. £400/ £500'

Why do prices escalate beyond all sense when certain Djs program tracks that they havnt actually discovered despite what ' those in the so called know state '.

Unfortunately some collectors just seem to follow .

I think it was Derek Pearson who said in Shades ' dead fish go with the flow'.

[Guest]

Sorry to go off topic but can anyone tell me how to get an image under my name.

Thanks.

[Jumpinjoan]

Sorry to go off topic but can anyone tell me how to get an image under my name.

Thanks.

Will send you pm

[Pete S]

Always makes me smile agree entirely.

Was spinning Ronnie McNeir ' Good Side Of Your Love' way back in early 80s. Other djs gave it many spins and it was a well respected 45 around £50/ £75 single to purchase.

Flip circa 2005 ' Oh Butch has that R Mcneir its rare .. £400/ £500'

Why do prices escalate beyond all sense when certain Djs program tracks that they havnt actually discovered despite what ' those in the so called know state '.

Unfortunately some collectors just seem to follow .

I think it was Derek Pearson who said in Shades ' dead fish go with the flow'.

If you look in his sales box he's always more expensive than anyone else anyway

[Pete S]

Sorry to go off topic but can anyone tell me how to get an image under my name.

Thanks.

Just go to my controls - avatar settings - piece of cake