Does A Dj Own 'djing Rights' Of A Record?

[Guest James Trouble]

Is there ever any circumstance that a specific DJ owns rights to DJ with a record?

For example, at the last Jacks at the start of the night I asked Ady if he was going to play his Nancy Wilcox "Gambler's Blue's" acetate that only he and I have copies of, as if he was not would it be ok for me to play it. Of course this was the right thing to do given the history of the record and my huge respect for him. Ady said he wasn't planning on it so it was perfectly ok for me to play it if I wanted to.

All very nice, gentlemen enjoying the night, the DJing and each others company.

That example is very black and white IMO.

Another example:

A DJ plays bootlegs of Mello Souls and the Primers amongst others. The said DJ is well respected on the scene and most of the people dancing do not even question what he is doing, after all why should they suspect he is DJing with bootlegs? Should this be allowed? Should the records be removed from the decks by people who realise what is going on especially if there are people in the room who own the originals of the records?

I think that example is pretty black and white as well. It doesn't matter who you think you are, you can't be playing bootlegs at northern soul events and I think there is a case there for militant action against the offender. Maybe I should say who it is?

Are there greyer areas?

For example, somthing like Johney Howard. Of course a bit of an oldie. But I think most people on the scene concider it a bit of a Butch play, I think most concider him to be responsible for it becoming a floor packer over recent years. Perhaps tunes like Demanding Man and the Vanguards would be similar tunes. As would Tim Brown being the first to play Jo Jama. Soul Sam was arguably responsible for Ellipsis + Hamilton Movement being what they are, although we all know where they were both played first, but let's not bring other scenes into this... Andy Dyson and Dynamite Exploded are very well assotiated I think, and I wouldn't even bother packing it in my box if I was DJing at the same night as him.

Personally I would not ever concider playing a tune on the same night if a DJ who is associated with a record is DJing, and certainly I would not play the record the set before the DJ assotiated with the record came on. I think it would be concidered a bit rude. I was surprised when Butch played Jo Jama before Tim Brown came on at Prestatyn. Should Tim have taken the record off the deck or spoken to the promoter or taken it in good humour? I think he took it in good humour as he played "Butch's" Johney Howard the next set. And although it was a bit funny, is this a serious issue?

What about if things get a bit darker. Is there ever a case for militant action against a DJ playing an original record like I believe should be used against a DJ playing bootlegs of things like Mello Souls and The Primers?

Is there ever a case for another DJ to remove an original record from the deck while another DJ is DJing with it?

Obviously I'm a bit bored this afternoon, and of course I know what I believe in. I personally would never play a record at the same night as a DJ assotiated with that record is playing at, for my own personal self respect and just because I think it's the 'right thing' to do. But has there ever been a situation in the strange and wonderful world of northern soul where one DJ has removed another DJ's record from the decks proclaiming the record to be "their" record? I'm sure somthing that ridiculous has not ever happenned, has it?

[Guest Trevski]

A DJ plays bootlegs of Mello Souls and the Primers amongst others. The said DJ is well respected on the scene and most of the people dancing do not even question what he is doing, after all why should they suspect he is DJing with bootlegs? Should this be allowed? Should the records be removed from the decks by people who realise what is going on especially if there are people in the room who own the originals of the records?

I think that example is pretty black and white as well. It doesn't matter who you think you are, you can't be playing bootlegs at northern soul events and I think there is a case there for militant action against the offender. Maybe I should say who it is?

Think I know who you mean

Have heard him play these myself, and, as you say, because of who he is no-one questioned it. I must admit, when he spun the Mello Souls, I knew it was a 'wrong 'un' and was slightly dissapointed that they should stoop to this. Is it just a case of so-called big name DJ's can get away with it? I know if I'd done it I would have been tarred and feathered by now

Edited April 25, 2007 by Trevski

[Guest in town Mikey]

Reading that post James, I had a song going around my head

If you're looking, for trouble, baad trouble

go on and mess with my guy.

;-)

[Guest hammy]

Who was it ?

Just curious.

Hammy

[Guest Trevski]

Reading that post James, I had a song going around my head

If you're looking, for trouble, baad trouble

go on and mess with my guy.

;-)

So you know too huh?

Edited April 25, 2007 by Trevski

[Corbett80]

Scary thing about this is most of the big DJs have quite a few records associated with them.....rules out playing a lot of stuff if you take all of the cases in hand.

[Guest SteveJohnston]

Is there ever any circumstance that a specific DJ owns rights to DJ with a record?

For example, at the last Jacks at the start of the night I asked Ady if he was going to play his Nancy Wilcox "Gambler's Blue's" acetate that only he and I have copies of, as if he was not would it be ok for me to play it. Of course this was the right thing to do given the history of the record and my huge respect for him. Ady said he wasn't planning on it so it was perfectly ok for me to play it if I wanted to.

All very nice, gentlemen enjoying the night, the DJing and each others company.

That example is very black and white IMO.

Another example:

A DJ plays bootlegs of Mello Souls and the Primers amongst others. The said DJ is well respected on the scene and most of the people dancing do not even question what he is doing, after all why should they suspect he is DJing with bootlegs? Should this be allowed? Should the records be removed from the decks by people who realise what is going on especially if there are people in the room who own the originals of the records?

I think that example is pretty black and white as well. It doesn't matter who you think you are, you can't be playing bootlegs at northern soul events and I think there is a case there for militant action against the offender. Maybe I should say who it is?

Are there greyer areas?

For example, somthing like Johney Howard. Of course a bit of an oldie. But I think most people on the scene concider it a bit of a Butch play, I think most concider him to be responsible for it becoming a floor packer over recent years. Perhaps tunes like Demanding Man and the Vanguards would be similar tunes. As would Tim Brown being the first to play Jo Jama. Soul Sam was arguably responsible for Ellipsis + Hamilton Movement being what they are, although we all know where they were both played first, but let's not bring other scenes into this... Andy Dyson and Dynamite Exploded are very well assotiated I think, and I wouldn't even bother packing it in my box if I was DJing at the same night as him.

Personally I would not ever concider playing a tune on the same night if a DJ who is associated with a record is DJing, and certainly I would not play the record the set before the DJ assotiated with the record came on. I think it would be concidered a bit rude. I was surprised when Butch played Jo Jama before Tim Brown came on at Prestatyn. Should Tim have taken the record off the deck or spoken to the promoter or taken it in good humour? I think he took it in good humour as he played "Butch's" Johney Howard the next set. And although it was a bit funny, is this a serious issue?

What about if things get a bit darker. Is there ever a case for militant action against a DJ playing an original record like I believe should be used against a DJ playing bootlegs of things like Mello Souls and The Primers?

Is there ever a case for another DJ to remove an original record from the deck while another DJ is DJing with it?

Obviously I'm a bit bored this afternoon, and of course I know what I believe in. I personally would never play a record at the same night as a DJ assotiated with that record is playing at, for my own personal self respect and just because I think it's the 'right thing' to do. But has there ever been a situation in the strange and wonderful world of northern soul where one DJ has removed another DJ's record from the decks proclaiming the record to be "their" record? I'm sure somthing that ridiculous has not ever happenned, has it?

Is it rainy in flipn Chelmsford!

Have you no gardening to do!

Steve J

[Jason S]

edit

Edited April 25, 2007 by J-Brew

[paultp]

I think people should be able to play what they've got in their box, playing a record that another DJ is "associated" with is not a crime really. I suppose that if you know there are only 2 copies and the guy associated with the other is DJing with you (and you have one) then maybe you are right to tiptoe round him.

I know that some DJ's play the boots of rare originals that they have due to better sound quality or caring for the original or summat, never worked out wether this is right or not, but playing boots of something you haven't got at a venue that is supposed to be OVO is not really on. Name and shame please.

At the end of the day though, most of the people on the dance floor wouldn't know or care.

[Drew3]

Think I know who you mean

Have heard him play these myself, and, as you say, because of who he is no-one questioned it. I must admit, when he spun the Mello Souls, I knew it was a 'wrong 'un' and was slightly dissapointed that they should stoop to this. Is it just a case of so-called big name DJ's can get away with it? I know if I'd done it I would have been tarred and feathered by now

Shouldn't you name this DJ Trevski?

If they are not named wouldn't this be hipocritical and the argument re boots should not be raised again (not talking about you personally but generally). I'm not looking to stir trouble and couldn't anyway, being an insignificant soul punter, but I have followed this debate with interest over the years and it seems to me that there can't be one rule for some DJ's and an 'elitist' rule for someone else, if you believe in the 'rule' in the first place!

KTF.

Drew.

[Guest Trevski]

Shouldn't you name this DJ Trevski?

If they are not named wouldn't this be hipocritical and the argument re boots should not be raised again (not talking about you personally but generally). I'm not looking to stir trouble and couldn't anyway, being an insignificant soul punter, but I have followed this debate with interest over the years and it seems to me that there can't be one rule for some DJ's and an 'elitist' rule for someone else, if you believe in the 'rule' in the first place!

KTF.

Drew.

They have been named (The clue, I think, is in the song ) Unless Mikey's not as sharp as I give him credit for

Edited April 25, 2007 by Trevski

[Drew3]

They have been named (The clue, I think, is in the song ) Unless Mikey's not as sharp as I give him credit for

I'm not that bright mate; or clued up!!!

KTF.

Drew.

[Guest wrighty]

luckily its not so much of a problem on the much maligned funk 'scene' less dj's, longer slots so if the odd record does crop up twice you can laugh it off and tell the punters how lucky they are to be hearing it twice

Edited April 25, 2007 by wrighty

[Russ Vickers]

Is there ever any circumstance that a specific DJ owns rights to DJ with a record?

For example, at the last Jacks at the start of the night I asked Ady if he was going to play his Nancy Wilcox "Gambler's Blue's" acetate that only he and I have copies of, as if he was not would it be ok for me to play it. Of course this was the right thing to do given the history of the record and my huge respect for him. Ady said he wasn't planning on it so it was perfectly ok for me to play it if I wanted to.

All very nice, gentlemen enjoying the night, the DJing and each others company.

That example is very black and white IMO.

Another example:

A DJ plays bootlegs of Mello Souls and the Primers amongst others. The said DJ is well respected on the scene and most of the people dancing do not even question what he is doing, after all why should they suspect he is DJing with bootlegs? Should this be allowed? Should the records be removed from the decks by people who realise what is going on especially if there are people in the room who own the originals of the records?

I think that example is pretty black and white as well. It doesn't matter who you think you are, you can't be playing bootlegs at northern soul events and I think there is a case there for militant action against the offender. Maybe I should say who it is?

Are there greyer areas?

For example, somthing like Johney Howard. Of course a bit of an oldie. But I think most people on the scene concider it a bit of a Butch play, I think most concider him to be responsible for it becoming a floor packer over recent years. Perhaps tunes like Demanding Man and the Vanguards would be similar tunes. As would Tim Brown being the first to play Jo Jama. Soul Sam was arguably responsible for Ellipsis + Hamilton Movement being what they are, although we all know where they were both played first, but let's not bring other scenes into this... Andy Dyson and Dynamite Exploded are very well assotiated I think, and I wouldn't even bother packing it in my box if I was DJing at the same night as him.

Personally I would not ever concider playing a tune on the same night if a DJ who is associated with a record is DJing, and certainly I would not play the record the set before the DJ assotiated with the record came on. I think it would be concidered a bit rude. I was surprised when Butch played Jo Jama before Tim Brown came on at Prestatyn. Should Tim have taken the record off the deck or spoken to the promoter or taken it in good humour? I think he took it in good humour as he played "Butch's" Johney Howard the next set. And although it was a bit funny, is this a serious issue?

What about if things get a bit darker. Is there ever a case for militant action against a DJ playing an original record like I believe should be used against a DJ playing bootlegs of things like Mello Souls and The Primers?

Is there ever a case for another DJ to remove an original record from the deck while another DJ is DJing with it?

Obviously I'm a bit bored this afternoon, and of course I know what I believe in. I personally would never play a record at the same night as a DJ assotiated with that record is playing at, for my own personal self respect and just because I think it's the 'right thing' to do. But has there ever been a situation in the strange and wonderful world of northern soul where one DJ has removed another DJ's record from the decks proclaiming the record to be "their" record? I'm sure somthing that ridiculous has not ever happenned, has it?

I agree with all the above comments, other than militant action. This has always been the case on the scene & is common courtesy..............I have even credited certain DJ's with records before playing them myself, if its a current indemander, even tho' they are not on the same billing.

Instead of miltant action........maybe naming & shaming is the way to go & embarrass them into submission ????!!!!????.

Russ

[Cover-up]

A DJ plays bootlegs of Mello Souls and the Primers amongst others.

Who cares? Surely as soon as a record is booted, then it's "game over" and anyone can play it? It's not a "big tune" anymore - the name DJ should have moved onto something else by this point?

[Guest Stuart T]

luckily its not so much of a problem on the much maligned funk 'scene' less dj's, longer slots so if the odd record does crop up twice you can laugh it off and tell the punters how lucky they are to be hearing it twice

They all sound the same anyway, would anyone notice?

[Russ Vickers]

Who cares? Surely as soon as a record is booted, then it's "game over" and anyone can play it? It's not a "big tune" anymore - the name DJ should have moved onto something else by this point?

I think we are talking dubs here, arnt we, single copies for named DJ as opposed to massed produced boots for public consumption ???

Russ

[Guest Stuart T]

Is there ever a case for another DJ to remove an original record from the deck while another DJ is DJing with it?

No, should never interfere with another persons records no matter what. Unless its that bad...

[Guest wrighty]

They all sound the same anyway, would anyone notice?

christ, yeah, 4 hours of that awful funk music...who needs it eh

[Simon M]

Bootlegs and vinyl carvers at a NS event can be slightly disturbing especially if said DJ is getting a good wage. Asking permission to play originals seems rather odd or even sycophantic IMO ( I cant remember it happening in the 80's most newies jocks had a different set to play every few months ) Sounds like the problem is stagnation and hotboxing

Simon

Edited April 25, 2007 by Simon M

[Pete S]

How can Johnny Howard be a "Butch spin", last person I heard play it was John "Johnny" Manship back in 1977, in fact they all had copies of it back then after Levine first played it a couple of years before. It was even bootlegged. But now you talk about it as if it was discovered recently.

[Pete S]

Bootlegs and vinyl carvers at a NS event can be slightly disturbing especially if said DJ is getting a good wage.

If the dj fills the dancefloor and the punters are happy, who gives a toss except for the anally retentive vinyl snobs present, the ones who are always peering over the decks and account for about 2% of the people there.

[Simon M]

If the dj fills the dancefloor and the punters are happy, who gives a toss except for the anally retentive vinyl snobs present, the ones who are always peering over the decks and account for about 2% of the people there.

Well i did say it was only slightly disturbing Pete

[Guest Simon]

Blimey James, some scary points!

On the playing of bootlegs, this area is becoming greyer by the minute, as people say sometimes it is one rule for the so called 'big djs' & one rule for everyone else, i don't know if this is true or not but i've heard stories about nearly every big name djs on the scene playing bootlegs at one time or another & this includes playing them at most famous NS venues.

I'm personally not into militant action it's more just good form not to play bootlegs at respected NS venues especially if there's a dj there with a proper copy.

On to originals, i don't think this is really an issue, noone really owns the bragging rights however if i was on the dj roster with someone who'd been recognised for playing a tune for a good while i'd probably not play it or at least run it by them. I try if at all possible to try & play things people aren't currently playing anyway as i like to try & have my own style although obviously you have to play to the crowd in front of you so sometimes have to play safer than you'd like to.

It's also always gonna be a thorny subject as to who is most associated with a record, a good example is above, James associates 'Dynamite exploded' with Andy Dyson whereas i associate it with Carl Fortnum, i haven't the foggiest who played it first.

Simon

[Pete S]

If I was playing a record and someone tried to remove it I would stab them

[Guest James Trouble]

Who cares? Surely as soon as a record is booted, then it's "game over" and anyone can play it? It's not a "big tune" anymore - the name DJ should have moved onto something else by this point?

This is an interesting point. Take that idea over to the arguement about original tunes. Once the masses of DJs have a tune should the 'leaders' drop it, because as you say it's "game over". Or do they have some sort of right over the record and all other DJs should respect that and not play it?

I know what I believe, in fact I've not even thought much about it before, I've always respected other DJs and what they have done to the popularity of a tune.

But really, should it be an issue at all? Or is this as fundimentally important, if slightly more complicated as not playing bootlegs and reissues at events?

Of course I am very very bored this afternoon, and I should probabyl be somthing more constructive like clipping my toe nails but perhaps this is an intersting topic?

[Mark Bicknell]

I just put the kettle on anyone fancy a brew?????

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Simon]

How can Johnny Howard be a "Butch spin", last person I heard play it was John "Johnny" Manship back in 1977, in fact they all had copies of it back then after Levine first played it a couple of years before. It was even bootlegged. But now you talk about it as if it was discovered recently.

I don't get the hype over this version, can't really see much difference to the Artistics version but for some reason probably cause Butch spun it it seems to be more trendy.

Simon

[Pete Eccles]

If a person considers themself to be labelled and paid as a dj is it not to much to ask that they carry enough original material to be able to play for 60 or so minutes without resorting to 'bootlegs' or stepping on another dj's toes? not even running it by another dj!

if unsure play somethin else! quite simple really IMHO,

Pete

[Pete S]

I don't get the hype over this version, can't really see much difference to the Artistics version but for some reason probably cause Butch spun it it seems to be more trendy.

Simon

I only remarked on it because I just thought it was a bog standard oldie, didn't realise someone was associated with it

[Simon M]

Quote Jtrouble

This is an interesting point. Take that idea over to the arguement about original tunes. Once the masses of DJs have a tune should the 'leaders' drop it, because as you say it's "game over". Or do they have some sort of right over the record and all other DJs should respect that and not play it?

.......................

It used to be game over James ..back of the box .. Find your own tunes is the name of the game IMO , well thats if really you want to play something different or new

[Simsy]

Who cares? Surely as soon as a record is booted, then it's "game over" and anyone can play it?

You don't mean 'out' .. Do you?

[Guest Bearsy]

If your talking a top class night at a top class venue with top class punters paying top class money to hear top class DJs that are being paid top class expenses expected to be playing top class rare soul then if you got it you should be able to play it as top class DJs should have a box of top class tunes and not have to worry what is played before them.

top class people respect fellow people ,

your only as good as your last record

if they aint got it give them the BOOT

[Simsy]

If your talking a top class night at a top class venue with top class punters paying top class money to hear top class DJs that are being paid top class expenses ....

Bloody hell Bearsy! Where is this place!? I wanna go!

[Guest Bearsy]

If I was playing a record and someone tried to remove it I would stab them

But i like Elvis Pete so it wouldnt be me

[Peter99]

if they aint got it give them the BOOT

[Sean Hampsey]

I don't get the hype over this version, can't really see much difference to the Artistics version but for some reason probably cause Butch spun it it seems to be more trendy.

Simon

Crikey... are we talking about "The Chase Is On"?

How is this a trendy new spin?

Was hammered and booted nearly 30 years ago.

Sean

[Souljazera]

oh dear its only records. ..does anybody really own anything...the original artists certainly dont....

personally i dont mind hearing good records more than once..as for oldies i dont want to hear them at all!!!

boots and dubs not sure..perhaps the dance floor really decides....i prefer the term "specials"

i would have to say we should all be grateful to be able to hear the music we all love..after all most of it dramatically flopped in the first place so its a second /third/fourth/fifth/sixth (u get my drift) chance for some

as regards top class expenses i am sure no one gets very much really at either northern or funk events...

[Guest Bearsy]

Bloody hell Bearsy! Where is this place!? I wanna go!

Utopia

[ajb]

what would the stance be on playing tracks from albums, original or compalation?

just interested

alan

[Simsy]

Utopia

Bit of rebranding for KSC?

[Peter99]

what would the stance be on playing tracks from albums, original or compalation?

just interested alan

The stance would be in close approximation of the decks - to ensure you can see well enough to cue it!

[Simon M]

what would the stance be on playing tracks from albums, original or compalation?

just interested

alan

Play the LP ..waste of money cutting a 7'' , if thats what you mean ..

ps. Tempests LP is great !!

[Guest Bearsy]

Bit of rebranding for KSC?

I was going to put that down Simsy but i thought i best not as it would be just a shameless plug on a serious thread and i didnt want telling off again

If i booked a named DJ and paid said DJ good money to cover their expenses and they played boots then i wouldnt be very happy as i could of bought the Shrine collection on ebay for half the money and Gene Toones and the Salvadors etc etc and played them myself for the ego trip.

if you aint got it dont do it

[Pete Eccles]

I was going to put that down Simsy but i thought i best not as it would be just a shameless plug on a serious thread and i didnt want telling off again

If i booked a named DJ and paid said DJ good money to cover their expenses and they played boots then i wouldnt be very happy as i could of bought the Shrine collection on ebay for half the money and Gene Toones and the Salvadors etc etc and played them myself for the ego trip.

if you aint got it dont do it

my thoughts exactly Bearsy and just to add as i said before if theres the slightest possibility any given tune may appear bad manners to another dj then forget it and choose another! End of!

[Marc Forrest]

As would Tim Brown being the first to play Jo Jama.

It used to be a Butch C/UP anway....however, if no one would be able to play a curent "indemander" we wouldn`t have such as the people who normally deliver these goods are not the most fequently booked DJ`s anyway. Of course anyone who buys the original 45 or acetate has got a right to play it out. If no one else would have gone behind Johnny Howard it wouldn`t have become such a massive tune at all (again..agree with Pete S here). If the DJ in question credits the DJ "source" the better it is, if not, not a problem really IMO.

Bootlegs ? Never. Militant action ? No, simply ignore these people.

All that would be needed s a bit more of sensible feeling from the DJ`s involved...no need to hear the tune of the month(s) ten times a night...

But I think we discuss the "unwritten rule" here anyway...

Thats my point of view.

Marc

[paultp]

the ones who are always peering over the decks and account for about 2% of the people there.

I personally think this is just the worst practice ever, there seems to always be at least one person at a gig who comes up and glares at a record which is on the deck like they have some right to check it, makes my blood boil.

Seen it happen to Jo when she played Stewart Ames, she actually had to hold the record up after it finished to show the guy it had King For A Day on the other side. I played Yvonne Baker - You Didn't Say A Word out somewhere once and some guy came and stood and watched it go round and round for about a minute.

I eventually said sarcastically "It's Yvonne Baker, mate"

"I know that" he says, all indignant "I just wanted to see if it was a proper one"

So I said "Sorry, I didn't notice your armband"

He had no idea what I was talking about.

Now I'm only a small time wanabee DJ so I suppose people think they have some right to check my records but does anyone ever do it to the big names?

[Guest Matt Male]

I personally would never play a record at the same night as a DJ assotiated with that record is playing at, for my own personal self respect and just because I think it's the 'right thing' to do.

Respect for people who break sounds and do a lot for the scene is all well and good but this just sounds a bit bonkers to me. If i've payed my good money for a record i'm bloody well gonna play it, i don't care who is on. These big name DJs have got plenty of tunes they can play. They broke the record, well done to them and thanks but once it's out there and known we can all play it surely? If you don't want anyone to play a record you discover, cover it up. I'm even started to think that practise is a bit backward.

As for asking another DJ's 'permission'...

This is the opposite of an open, forward moving and progressive scene in my opinion.

[Simon M]

Now I'm only a small time wanabee DJ so I suppose people think they have some right to check my records but does anyone ever do it to the big names?

+++++++++++++

Yeah I did to Soul Sam recently , to check if he had a Dyco or a Marshal copy of Halo

Edited April 25, 2007 by Simon M

[Peter99]

I personally think this is just the worst practice ever, there seems to always be at least one person at a gig who comes up and glares at a record which is on the deck like they have some right to check it, makes my blood boil.

I'm not a DJ nor a collector these days - and I'm certainly not a member of the soul police. I do though, occasionally like to have a look at something that is being played - out of personal interest. Is this such a bad thing.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Peter99