On 45s most of them say BMI to which I understand is that the song is registered,so what does it mean when the 45 DOESNT have BMI on it?

thanks

lee

  On 25/02/2025 at 18:42, Dobber said:

On 45s most of them say BMI to which I understand is that the song is registered,so what does it mean when the 45 DOESNT have BMI on it?

thanks

lee

I thought you were concerned about putting weight on ( Body Mass Index)!🤣

  On 25/02/2025 at 19:53, Julianb said:

I thought you were concerned about putting weight on ( Body Mass Index)!🤣

😂😂😂 very good Julian….but I think im 10 stone piss wet through!😂

From memory - The song hadn’t been registered with the BMI for copyright purposes. If the artist has a publishing deal the publisher will do it. If not, it’s down to the artist to do it. If it’s not registered the songwriters won’t get any publishing royalties from airplays and performances. The other big copyrighter is ASCAP.

3 main publishing outfits in the US ... BMI, ASCAP & a n other. Theirs SESAC somewhere else. 

ASCAP was who most black writers registered with. Both BMI & ASCAP were the orgs that the writers royalties were paid via -- so they collect the monies in & then pay them out to the writers on a term basis (every 3 or 6 months I think). ALSO they keep contact info for each publisher they represent, so you can contact the writers via them (if the writers have kept the publishers up to date with regard to their current address / phone numbers). BMI was the biggest org of them all but some of the time, the info they keep isn't 100% correct or fully maintained. 

An old mention on a 60's / 70's 45 (or LP) that it was registered with BMI (or ASCAP) via xxx music publishers, doesn't mean that those orgs still have the details or still post up the info on many songs originally registered with them.

PLUS, many times the wrong info is registered by them (poor old Sidney Barnes wrote many songs that are registered under other folks names -- so they've been getting the royalties on them, not him.     

 

Great info guys..thanks           
 

so for example…the brooks bros -looking for a woman on Tay DOESNT have bmi on it,yet it was reissued on kingy,what happens in that scenario regarding royalties etc..

 

  On 26/02/2025 at 10:59, Dobber said:

Great info guys..thanks           
 

so for example…the brooks bros -looking for a woman on Tay DOESNT have bmi on it,yet it was reissued on kingy,what happens in that scenario regarding royalties etc..

 

As with other boots/unofficial presses ... bugger all.

  On 26/02/2025 at 12:17, Woodbutcher said:

As with other boots/unofficial presses ... bugger all.

Really? I honestly thought when these reissues appeared with almost looking labels,and almost looking label names that they paid royalties etc…

so for example ‘KINGY’ is this not legitimate?

  On 26/02/2025 at 12:26, Dobber said:

Really? I honestly thought when these reissues appeared with almost looking labels,and almost looking label names that they paid royalties etc…

so for example ‘KINGY’ is this not legitimate?

Try looking it up on Discogs.

As a clue , you already said it was originally released on 'Tay' not 'King'... 

  On 26/02/2025 at 12:57, Woodbutcher said:

Try looking it up on Discogs.

As a clue , you already said it was originally released on 'Tay' not 'King'... 

yeah Im more curious as to whether these outfits paid the writer/group any dosh to reissue it,and if it ain’t registered with bmi etc then maybe they don’t have to pay any money,and also if they did wanna pay,how would they get the money to them if the song isn’t registered?

  On 26/02/2025 at 10:59, Dobber said:

Great info guys..thanks           
 

so for example…the brooks bros -looking for a woman on Tay DOESNT have bmi on it,yet it was reissued on kingy,what happens in that scenario regarding royalties etc..

 

Publishers can collect royalties, usually on behalf of the songwriter(s), so Lovenote Pub may have done this ( past, now or future). There may also be a copyright (perhaps a master recording copyright, usually owned by the artist) and there's the composition which may be copyright protected usally by the songwriter or publisher.

Needless to say @Woodbutcher is right, with our 45's royalties or other payments are likely to amount to bugger all.

Great info from all you guys 👍

Of all the royalties due;  to song writers; engineers, actual artists, record label, etc ...   THE MOST FREQUENTLY PAID is that to song writers. As long as the re-release is legit & they are still registered (with up to date info held) with BMI or ASCAP, then they will get their royalty payments. With limited edition reissues though, the money involved is small.

Someone like Sam Dees, who has written 1000's of recorded songs, of which 100's were hits ... he can just sit back & cash his 6 monthly royalty cheques ... though he has the advantage that folk like Tavares, Whitney Houston, Larry Williams, Ben E King and the like cutting his songs. 

The trouble with most OLD OBSCURE SOUL TRACKS is that the guys involved (including the writers -- many times members of the group) is that they give up due to lack of success, get normal 9 to 5 jobs and never realise that 20+ years later their old 45 now has a following. The number of folk I've contacted & said YOU DO REALISE YOUR OLD 45 NOW SELLS FOR $1000 / copy or whatever . . . . and WELL . . . THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW IT'S STILL KNOWN ABOUT.

At present I'm writing a piece on a MODERN SOUL IN-DEMANDER after finding out (purely by chance) that a guy I have known for around 35 years started out in an obscure Cali group before he joined his hit making Ohio based group. His 1st studio experience (while still in school) resulted in a 45 put out on a label owned by the elder statesmen of that original group. It was the only release on the label, got a few local radio plays and then sank without trace. A few copies eventually found their way to the UK, modern soul jocks gave it spins and it was soon valued @ over $300 / copy. My contact actually got back with the original group's members & they did a 50th Anniversary reunion show @ their old high school's prom. The 1st time they'd been back in touch in 45 years. 

Of course, this 45 sold few copies back in the 70's, so BMI never really got to collect any royalties on their behalf, even though the group's leader (& their record label's owner) was savvy enough to register their songs with the publishing org.      

Ady C  (with his Ace / Kent experiences) can wax lyrical on this subject and has done so in the past.

Edited February 26Feb 26 by Roburt

  On 26/02/2025 at 08:47, Roburt said:

3 main publishing outfits in the US ... BMI, ASCAP & a n other. Theirs SESAC somewhere else. 

ASCAP was who most black writers registered with. Both BMI & ASCAP were the orgs that the writers royalties were paid via -- so they collect the monies in & then pay them out to the writers on a term basis (every 3 or 6 months I think). ALSO they keep contact info for each publisher they represent, so you can contact the writers via them (if the writers have kept the publishers up to date with regard to their current address / phone numbers). BMI was the biggest org of them all but some of the time, the info they keep isn't 100% correct or fully maintained. 

An old mention on a 60's / 70's 45 (or LP) that it was registered with BMI (or ASCAP) via xxx music publishers, doesn't mean that those orgs still have the details or still post up the info on many songs originally registered with them.

PLUS, many times the wrong info is registered by them (poor old Sidney Barnes wrote many songs that are registered under other folks names -- so they've been getting the royalties on them, not him.     

 

My impression was that ASCAP was the older association, and started with the New York Tin Pan Alley trade of mostly standards, and BMI was the newer of the 2, and started out grabbing a lot of the WWII and post WWII trade from the glut of new independent record labels signing new singing artists, which included "Race Music, C&W music, Gospel, and other genre niches.  That included R&B.  Of my 40,000 singles and couple thousand LPs, the great bulk of my r&B group and single artist songs that were written by the newer, non mainstream, non major label, songs that were NOT old standards were registered with BMI, rather than ASCAP.  Probably 95% of my R&B and ;60s Soul songs were BMI.  It was only when groups and single artists sang remakes of old standards, that the songs were registered by ASCAP.