Terri Goodnight on Manships

[Harrythedog]

Terri Goodnight - They Didnt Know- Phelectron

At last a proper real deal rare record and top quality northern. Dont hear this played too often. Dont know if the price reached will truly reflect the rarity of this record. Top Top Northern, one of the best.

[The Tempest]

Only ever seen one copy for sale - Darren’s site - and that sold for over £3k then ! Who knows where it will go ! 

[Ben Owen]

If two people want it, you never know! 

[Woodbutcher]

Rarity over quality for sure , bloody awful vocal , one can easily see why it's scarce as I doubt it sold more than a handful of copies on release ... 

[Jessie Pinkman]

2 hours ago, Woodbutcher said:

Rarity over quality for sure , bloody awful vocal , one can easily see why it's scarce as I doubt it sold more than a handful of copies on release ... 

On his site John mentions Terri's unique vocal style makes this tune so very special.

I'll bet there's a few acts on this weekends "Britain's Got Talent" with a similar unique vocal style. 

[Woodbutcher]

5 minutes ago, Jessie Pinkman said:

On his site John mentions Terri's unique vocal style makes this tune so very special.

I'll bet there's a few acts on this weekends "Britain's Got Talent" with a similar unique vocal style. 

Sits alongside Margaret Little as a tune I'd never give house room to , even if I won a Euromillions jackpot ... 

[Garswood]

Terrible vocals, worse than George lemons and there bad

[Solidsoul]

If people like and enjoy those records where's the harm in that! 

I wouldn't buy it, but I do think the Margaret Little has a great backing track and is good to dance too

Edited Wednesday at 10:35 by Solidsoul

[Jessie Pinkman]

1 hour ago, Solidsoul said:

If people like and enjoy those records where's the harm in that! 

I wouldn't buy it, but I do think the Margaret Little has a great backing track and is good to dance too

I don't think a couple of comments on here will affect anybody's enjoyment of a record that they love. It certainly wont affect any of the bidders for the copy on John's auction..

Edited Wednesday at 11:49 by Jessie Pinkman

[Woodbutcher]

It would appear to have disappeared , nothing now listed for next week or any Latest Additions now.

[Modularman]

21 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

It would appear to have disappeared , nothing now listed for next week or any Latest Additions now.

I think they take them down temporarily while the current auction is ending

[Woodbutcher]

7 minutes ago, Modularman said:

I think they take them down temporarily while the current auction is ending

Never seen that before , I regularly rummage around the following offerings while waiting for the current auction to finish , and they've not yet returned to showing anything.

Edited Wednesday at 18:37 by Woodbutcher

[Lionelonthevinyl]

The thing I love is the quirkiness of rare soul!!! The chat with your pals saying, I think that's rubbish!! Well, I love it!!! No ones wrong. Just a matter of preference. No one else can understand it and where would we start to explain.....as for "Terri"....it's certainly not a big production sound!!!...I like it, but there's loads out of tune, with bad  backing .....gotta love it!!!.....thank you....Rob

Edited Wednesday at 19:14 by Lionelonthevinyl

[Robbk]

On 18/02/2025 at 12:32, Woodbutcher said:

Rarity over quality for sure , bloody awful vocal , one can easily see why it's scarce as I doubt it sold more than a handful of copies on release ... 

It probably didn't sell even a handful.  I never saw it in any shop in 1965 or 1966.  I'd guess it had no commercial sales.  I found mine along with the Jackie Day in a Goodwill thrift store in South Central L.A.   We didn't stock it at any of the 3 Dolphin's of Hollywood stores. Neither did  Flash, Sam's, Crain's, Pat's, Lonny Cook's record shop, or any of the other LA stores, Chicago or SF Bay Area stores have it.  It was the only copy of that record I've ever seen or heard of.  While, it seems that a couple other copies of Jackie Day have turned up since.  I don't remember seeing it at the local distributors in L.A.  I frequented Record Merch. once a week.  That was the main outlet for local Indie Soul labels.  It never got there.  The fact that even the Jackie Day release didn't get stocked in local shops tells me that Phelectron didn't know the first thing about how to market local Soul records, and had no connections with distributors, record shops, local DJs, or anyone else in the record business who could get their records heard, or even seen by the public and known to exist.  I'm sure that Jackie Day was pissed that her record couldn't even get known to exist in public awareness.  Even if she didn't get her full residuals from record sales and Juke Box use from The Bihari's Modern Records, at least she was able to earn a living with personal club appearances, because her Modern cuts got some airplay on local Soul stations. 

Terri Goodnight, on the other hand, probably had no singing career, at all, as I never saw a venue appearance advert poster, her record in a shop, never met anyone who had heard of her, never heard of anyone else finding another copy of her record, and she didn't sing well enough to pass a tryout to get a nightclub gig.

[Jessie Pinkman]

21 hours ago, Lionelonthevinyl said:

The thing I love is the quirkiness of rare soul!!! The chat with your pals saying, I think that's rubbish!! Well, I love it!!! No ones wrong. Just a matter of preference. No one else can understand it and where would we start to explain.....as for "Terri"....it's certainly not a big production sound!!!...I like it, but there's loads out of tune, with bad  backing .....gotta love it!!!.....thank you....Rob

For me the production of a record isn't a problem, whether they're the big productions of the MGM's to the low budgets of Modo Records. I think the basic requirement of a soul record is that the vocalist can sing in tune. I'm not talking about Luther Vandross or Aretha Franklin level, just a decent vocal performance will do. Take The Changing Scene "When the city sleeps" for example, the main vocalist kills that song for me, I can't listen to the whole of the record without stopping it.

Edited Thursday at 16:04 by Jessie Pinkman

[Jimmy Mack]

strong backing just needed a stronger vocal and it reminds me of Bye Bye Baby -Mary Wells 

[Mal C]

Reminds me of the early 9ts, when I had it on a tape, I was hooked into that walkman!  love it for that, and of course its dog rare and all that, but lets face it, she isnt Mary Wells...

[Happy Feet]

22 minutes ago, Mal C said:

Reminds me of the early 9ts, when I had it on a tape, I was hooked into that walkman!  love it for that, and of course its dog rare and all that, but lets face it, she isnt Mary Wells...

More Louise Lewis , Wee Oo I'll Let It Be You Babe , good gear , right time , full floor , nuff said .

[Marc Forrest]

Heres a funny bit of trivia with that record: When I had Gary Spencer over here to deejay at our allnighters in Berlin late eighties, this alongside Jr. McCants, Deon Jackson, Idols etc was one of his main spins. I fell in love with it upon first hearing. So Gary knowing how much I loved it offered it to me first refusal when he was selling up a couple of years later, maybe 94 ? Still remember paying 300 GBP for it, a VG+ copy, telling myself "thats crazy, you cant tell that anyone" ...how times and PRICES have changed  ! However, a few years later I had to move it on (to Timmy Boy Brown) and thought I would never ever get it back. Fast forward a couple of years, maybe ten, and a US contact of mine  phones me "you wouldnt believe what I just found on top of a pile of records on the basement stairways of a LA second hand shop!" ...that baby was (and still is) mint-  ... did cost me a wee bit more than my first copy though LOL ! So there I was a few months or maybe even years later with that record in my box sitting next Carl Willingham (RIP) in a Leipzig coffee shop one morning after the two of us had deejayed there together, and guess what: He had bought my old copy back then from Tim Brown and there we were, the two of us with the same ultra rare record sitting next to each other in a Leipzig coffee shop thousand miles away from where that record was published some 40 odd years later ! I mean, what were the chances... ? 

For the record: I am that crazy that I also successfully hunted down her other Phelectron 45 "The Victory Song"..and I even love that one

[Dobber]

6 minutes ago, Marc Forrest said:

Heres a funny bit of trivia with that record: When I had Gary Spencer over here to deejay at our allnighters in Berlin late eighties, this alongside Jr. McCants, Deon Jackson, Idols etc was one of his main spins. I fell in love with it upon first hearing. So Gary knowing how much I loved it offered it to me first refusal when he was selling up a couple of years later, maybe 94 ? Still remember paying 300 GBP for it, a VG+ copy, telling myself "thats crazy, you cant tell that anyone" ...how times and PRICES have changed  ! However, a few years later I had to move it on (to Timmy Boy Brown) and thought I would never ever get it back. Fast forward a couple of years, maybe ten, and a US contact of mine  phones me "you wouldnt believe what I just found on top of a pile of records on the basement stairways of a LA second hand shop!" ...that baby was (and still is) mint-  ... did cost me a wee bit more than my first copy though LOL ! So there I was a few months or maybe even years later with that record in my box sitting next Carl Willingham (RIP) in a Leipzig coffee shop one morning after the two of us had deejayed there together, and guess what: He had bought my old copy back then from Tim Brown and there we were, the two of us with the same ultra rare record sitting next to each other in a Leipzig coffee shop thousand miles away from where that record was published some 40 odd years later ! I mean, what were the chances... ? 

For the record: I am that crazy that I also successfully hunted down her other Phelectron 45 "The Victory Song"..and I even love that one

Great story Marc

As for this tune and many others,no dont doubt they are gonna be getting the AI treatment and re released on some label

[Robbk]

8 hours ago, Marc Forrest said:

Heres a funny bit of trivia with that record: When I had Gary Spencer over here to deejay at our allnighters in Berlin late eighties, this alongside Jr. McCants, Deon Jackson, Idols etc was one of his main spins. I fell in love with it upon first hearing. So Gary knowing how much I loved it offered it to me first refusal when he was selling up a couple of years later, maybe 94 ? Still remember paying 300 GBP for it, a VG+ copy, telling myself "thats crazy, you cant tell that anyone" ...how times and PRICES have changed  ! However, a few years later I had to move it on (to Timmy Boy Brown) and thought I would never ever get it back. Fast forward a couple of years, maybe ten, and a US contact of mine  phones me (1)"you wouldnt believe what I just found on top of a pile of records on the basement stairways of a LA second hand shop!" ...that baby was (and still is) mint-  ... did cost me a wee bit more than my first copy though LOL ! So there I was a few months or maybe even years later with that record in my box sitting next Carl Willingham (RIP) in a Leipzig coffee shop one morning after the two of us had deejayed there together, and guess what: He had bought my old copy back then from Tim Brown and there we were, the two of us with the same ultra rare record sitting next to each other (2) in a Leipzig coffee shop thousand miles away from where that record was published some 40 odd years later ! I mean, what were the chances... ? 

For the record: (3) I am that crazy that I also successfully hunted down her other Phelectron 45 "The Victory Song"..and I even love that one

(1) I didn't know that even a 2nd copy was found after mine.  How many of them are known now?  How many Jackie Day Phelectrons are known?

(2) Leipzig is a helluva lot farther from L.A. than 1,000 miles!  Maybe it is 1,000 miles from Lancashire?  What do you mean by the record being published 40 years later than 1990, or 1965?

(3) I didn't know there was a 2nd Terri Goodnight Phelectron record!  Can someone post scans and sound files (at least snippets) of it?  Did Jackie Day have more Phelectron releases?  Did Phelectron issue rercords sung by any other asrtists?  Was this record obtained from the producer (Ken Easton), or from Johnny Cochran?

I found "The Victory Song" on YouTube.  Terri's singing is not very good, but the instrumental is awful, noisy and tinny.  They really didn't know what they were doing.  I also never saw that one, or heard anything about it.  I'd bet that it never got to a record shop.

Edited yesterday at 06:05 by Robbk

[Dave Pinch]

Truly awful record.. worse than Margaret little and that’s saying summat

[Robbk]

18 minutes ago, Dave Pinch said:

Truly awful record.. worse than Margaret little and that’s saying summat

I can tell that Terri was an accomplished singer, who had a trained voice.  She had an operatic style, like Liz Lands.  She had attended basically "all White schools" and so, had a standard TV American accent (like Barbra McNair).  And like Barbra, she didn't change to The Southern US African-American dialect just to sing Soul-style songs.  So, her singing style was not a good one to sing Soul "Stompers" like "They Don't Know".  Her style not what Soul music fans are expecting or what they think is good, because it sounds "weird" and not like what they heard and came to love.  She sang in an award-winning Gospel choir, and her Gospel singing was quite good.  She can carry as tune very well, and really has a nice singing voice.  She just used the wrong style for the songs Easton (or Cochran) picked for her.

Cochran was quite a sharp character (in the first tier of US Lawyers).  You'd think he would have realised that those songs were wrong for her style, and had an accomplished Soul singer demo the songs for her so she could mimic the proper style.  If American singers who don't know two foreign words can sing entire songs in a language they don't know, just by mimicking the sounds phonetically (Motown did that a lot), Terri could have mimicked a Soul singing style with no problems.

[Wheelsville1]

49 minutes ago, Dave Pinch said:

Truly awful record.. worse than Margaret little and that’s saying summat

Don't forget Lynn Terry as well Dave of which we spoke about several months ago,another very expensive pile of shite.

[Solidsoul]

This topic is becoming negative, with people feeling the need to share their personal dislikes of various different unconnected records.   

It's supposed to be about Terri Goodnight on auction at the moment.  Anybody got anything positive to say? 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:40 by Solidsoul

[Dave Pinch]

6 hours ago, Solidsoul said:

This topic is becoming negative, with people feeling the need to share their personal dislikes of various different unconnected records.   

It's supposed to be about Terri Goodnight on auction at the moment.  Anybody got anything positive to say? 

 

No

7 hours ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Don't forget Lynn Terry as well Dave of which we spoke about several months ago,another very expensive pile of shite.

Absolutely

[Solidsoul]

2 hours ago, Dave Pinch said:

No

Absolutely

It's good to know we have you guys with the perfect taste in music to let us know if a record is good or rubbish, because we don't have minds of our own to decide for ourselves! 

Edited 20 hours ago by Solidsoul

[Jessie Pinkman]

1 hour ago, Solidsoul said:

It's good to know we have you guys with the perfect taste in music to let us know if a record is good or rubbish, because we don't have minds of our own to decide for ourselves! 

Dave's given his opinion, whether you agree with it or not is up to you. I don't think a couple of negative comments on here will affect anybody's enjoyment of a record that they love, I'm sure the positive comments from members will be forthcoming.

Edited 19 hours ago by Jessie Pinkman

[Dave Pinch]

1 hour ago, Solidsoul said:

It's good to know we have you guys with the perfect taste in music to let us know if a record is good or rubbish, because we don't have minds of our own to decide for ourselves! 

oooo    precious.  no its just my opinion which no one should really care about.. a free speech is still allowed in the uk for now.... but wait now

[Mal C]

I wonder if we might add Tammy Wayne into the list of perhaps miss cast singers with the wrong song? She has/had a strong voice, but that song always sounded out of key to me, maybe this is another case, as Robb has mentioned, a classically trained singer recording a pop song, with a standard TV American accent.

There are allot of cases where a writer puts a 45 out, think of Rockie Brown on Penntown, she wrote a few other tracks, I think her real name was Pat Caldwell.  What do we know about the writers and producer on Terri goodnight? I wonder, have they got form else where in R&B and Soul?

[Dobber]

What is the other side like? It might be that ‘they didnt know’ was a typical no one cares b side? No particuliar care of how it turns out? Personally I don’t mind it,I’ve certainly heard a lot worse,maybe this is under attack because of its value it usually achieves?

[Dobber]

Just listening to it through headphones,I have to say the comments are bloody harsh! It’s a cracking backing track,and the girl at least has variation in her voice! In terms of collecting,it’s a rare piece,and at 3k estimate it’s a lot better than most at similar money…….like what nut case just paid £7.5 for that disco record jax something or other

[Robbk]

3 hours ago, Mal C said:

I wonder if we might add Tammy Wayne into the list of perhaps miss cast singers with the wrong song? She has/had a strong voice, but that song always sounded out of key to me, maybe this is another case, as Robb has mentioned, a classically trained singer recording a pop song, with a standard TV American accent.

There are allot of cases where a writer puts a 45 out, think of Rockie Brown on Penntown, she wrote a few other tracks, I think her real name was Pat Caldwell.  What do we know about the writers and producer on Terri goodnight? I wonder, have they got form else where in R&B and Soul?

The producer for both of Terri's Phelectron Records was Ken Easton.  I can't remember ever seeing his name on a Soul record.  I'd guess that he had been a classical musician, and only involved in the production of classical and MOR music.  I don't recognise the sound engineer, Mike Dorrough, never having seen his name related to any recording studio that dealt with L.A. Soul, or Pop music.  Terri's main songwriter was Phelectron's owner, Lawyer Johnny Cochran's wife, Jean.  Everything I've read about the label points to Johnny(a successful, high-powered lawyer), not having much to do with the day-to-day operations of the company, and that he set it up because Jean, (a wannabee songwriter), wanted to get into the music business. 

The only other songwriter, Cyril Roberts, was a well-known, and successful, Los Angeles, Soul music songwriter and record producer, who worked as a free-lancer on many of L.A.'s small Indie labels from the late '50s to , at least the early 1970s (if not later).

It appears that Easton knew nothing about The Soul Music market, and had no connections at all in it.  Jean Cochran somehow, came to like a Cyril Roberts' song, and had Terri sing it.  But, clearly Roberts didn't work for Phelectron.  IF he HAD worked with them, Jean would have had Roberts be her A&R man, and use HIS connections to DJs, distributors, musicians/arrangers, recording studios, pressing plants, marketing, etc. to find the right songs for her, market her  records(get them heard by the right people), played on the radio, at least a local distribution deal), and he'd have promoted them to the local record shops, etc.  And she'd at least, have then had a chance to get some sales.  The Phelectron set-up smacks of just being analogous to a "Vanity Press" situation for an aspiring author who wants to get a novel published.  A rich benefactor spends a lot of money to give the Wannabee person the chance to live out his/her dream.  Johnny Cochran spent the money to set up a record label for his wife to "play at" running a record company, writing songs that get played on the radio, getting songs sung the way she'd envision them, and take some young, aspiring, talented singers and bring their talents to The World (make stars of them).  But THIS situation couldn't work, because neither Johnny, nor Jean, had the connections in that industry to help them succeed and advise them what to do to succeed in that business.  And Johnny had no time to devote to learning about how things worked in that field.

Edited 15 hours ago by Robbk

[Simon T]

15 minutes ago, Dobber said:

What is the other side like? It might be that ‘they didnt know’ was a typical no one cares b side? No particuliar care of how it turns out? Personally I don’t mind it,I’ve certainly heard a lot worse,maybe this is under attack because of its value it usually achieves?

it's very nice

[Jessie Pinkman]

4 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Just listening to it through headphones,I have to say the comments are bloody harsh! It’s a cracking backing track,and the girl at least has variation in her voice! In terms of collecting,it’s a rare piece,and at 3k estimate it’s a lot better than most at similar money…….like what nut case just paid £7.5 for that disco record jax something or other

So it's harsh to criticise Terri Goodnight but it's okay to trash Jax Transit Authority cos somebody's paid big money for it. Given a choice of the two records there's no contest IMHO.

[Mal C]

15 minutes ago, Robbk said:

The Phelectron set-up smacks of just being analogous to a "Vanity Press" situation for an aspiring author who wants to get a novel published.  A rich benefactor spends a lot of money to give the Wannabee person the chance to live out his/her dream.  Johnny Cochran spent the money to set up a record label for his wife to "play at" running a record company, writing songs that get played on the radio, getting songs sung the way she'd envision them, and take some young, aspiring, talented singers and bring their talents to The World (make stars of them).  But THIS situation couldn't work, because neither Johnny, nor Jean, had the connections in that industry to help them succeed and advise them what to do to succeed in that business.  And Johnny had no time to devote to learning about how things worked in that field.

Surprised to find so much is known about the label, makes sense really, it is a Vanity Press, and outside of Jean's writing duties, Cyril Roberts was their go to man. I guess he would likely set the session up, so he was a 'fixer' as well. 

[Dobber]

21 minutes ago, Jessie Pinkman said:

So it's harsh to criticise Terri Goodnight but it's okay to trash Jax Transit Authority cos somebody's paid big money for it. Given a choice of the two records there's no contest IMHO.

I’ll take that burn mate

[Dave Pinch]

1 hour ago, Jessie Pinkman said:

So it's harsh to criticise Terri Goodnight but it's okay to trash Jax Transit Authority cos somebody's paid big money for it. Given a choice of the two records there's no contest IMHO.

Agree bob

 i know what I prefer but again 

it’s all down to individual taste

Some are maybe just influenced by price tags..

Elitism  part and parcel of the scene

 

 

 

 

[Robbk]

10 hours ago, Mal C said:

(1) Surprised to find so much is known about the label, makes sense really, it is a Vanity Press, and outside of Jean's writing duties, (2) Cyril Roberts was their go to man. I guess he would likely set the session up, so he (could have been) -was- a 'fixer' as well. 

(1) There were a couple news articles about the formation (foundation) of Phelectron Records, and its in-house music publishing company (Trevenia Music) in 1965, in the music industry trade papers (magazines).  They covered the basic structure of the new companies, and a little bit about their 2 singing artists, Terri Goodnight and Jackie Day.  Apparently, The Cochrans had their own connections to people who knew about the budding young talented choir singer (Terri) (perhaps a member of their sponsoring church?), and probably someone who was a friend of Jackie's.  Cyril Roberts was a songwriter for the label, as well as Jackie Day's producer.  I would have guessed that he would have been made their A&R man, and manage the company until Jean could get up to speed (sort of how Bob Hamilton ran things at Golden World's start, until JoAnne Bratton could get up to speed in experience in the business).

(2) I was wrong about Jean Cochran just using a song Cyril Roberts wrote.  Roberts WAS involved with Phelectron, in a major way.  He was the producer of Jackie Day's record, and writer of "Naughty Boy".  So, one would think that Jean would have made Roberts her A&R man, and picked his brain for advice, and possibly asked for a demo tape of how Terri Goodnight's song should be sung, and also had him make recommendations on experienced producers and arrangers to use, recording studios and engineers, distributors to approach, and use him as a marketing man to deal with DJs and distributors and getting gigs for her artists.  And so, with Roberts leaning on his past experience in the business, Jean might have made less mistakes in operating her label, and had at least some small modicum of success.  With Roberts involved, I'm not sure why she chose Easton to produce Terri's 2 records (unless he had previously produced records sung by her choir).  Still, being as they decided for Terri to sing some Soul-style songs, why not have Roberts produce them, and have her practise copying  the style the demo singer used on the songs until she got the style down, before recording?  If she was uncomfortable recording that kind of music, why have her record it?  I guess Jean as a very young woman, new to The Business World, with no one to guide her but a songwriter and ad-hoc producer, who hadn't owned a record label up ton that time, as far as I know, and her father, very busy most of the time, was apparently, based on the results, overwhelmed with the challenges that most tiny, independent labels faced, even when run by people experienced in that business.  They seemed to not have a well-thought-out, logical plan of operation, and were just making decisions on-the-fly.

Edited 6 hours ago by Robbk

[The Yank]

Just wanted to make a minor correction- Barbara was Johnnie's first wife, Jean was his daughter.

[Robbk]

3 hours ago, The Yank said:

Just wanted to make a minor correction- Barbara was Johnnie's first wife, Jean was his daughter.

Thanks.  I thought the articles said Jean was Johnny's wife.  I just assumed that.  I didn't think Johnny was old enough to have a 20+ year old child.  And was thinking about Ed Wingate's starting up Golden World for his future wife.  The articles DIDN'T say what her relationship to Johnny was.  So, Johnny set up the label for his daughter to start a career in music.  Nice to have rich parents.

Edited 6 hours ago by Robbk

[Kenb]

around the time of this recording, Mike Dorrough worked ( as an engineer) at a studio owned by Casey Kasem & Bob Hudson ( Radio guys in Hollywood). Mike did stuff for the Beach Boys, The impressions, etc. @Robbk He went to Motown.

Mike was a bit of an audio guru, and invented the Dorrough Audio processor along with a bunch of other devices. I think he went  on to own Audio Craft Industries (about late 60's-early 70's)

[Sebastian]

15 hours ago, Dobber said:

What is the other side like? It might be that ‘they didnt know’ was a typical no one cares b side? No particuliar care of how it turns out? Personally I don’t mind it,I’ve certainly heard a lot worse,maybe this is under attack because of its value it usually achieves?

 

[Theresa]

Whether you love or hate the record, we're auctioning it on behalf of Maria Willingham - this was Carl's copy and he absolutely cherished it. Could we maybe just temper our comments with that in mind, and be a little bit gentler knowing his beloved widow is reading them? Thanks guys. 

Theresa Manship

[Tony Foster]

Fond memories of Carl playing back to back Phelectron 45's.  Great respect for Carl and Maria, I really hope it reaches its maximum.