Poets-Wrapped Around... J2 and Sue Records , any more info?

[Rick Cooper]

The Poets - Wrapped Around Your Finger on J2  recently sold on John Manship's  auction for £7119 and the follow on discussion gave some of the backstory. As it's one of my favourite records ( also Mrs C's) I did a  quick search to see what else is known about it and the J2 label. 

Other records on J2 are

The Pebble Episode -Tripsey / The Plum Song J2-1300

Baby Washington - Like A Rolling Stone/ New Yorker J2 1301

These are listed as 1967 releases so is it likely that Juggy Murray set up J2 straight after Sue/Symbol closed as a way of getting out  tracks already recorded at Sue. Maybe this didn't go down too well with companies that Sue owed money to and radio stations were cautious. There seems to be some promotion done on The Poets as John's auction copy was stamped "DJ Copy" and there is one with a Chips sticker on it. So does anyone know if any J2 records got magazine reviews or radio plays in the US ( I guess @The Yank would be the only one who would know). @Robbk did you see any J2 singles in shops in the sixties? Has anyone got the other J2 singles and are they worth much?

It was mentioned that John Anderson found the first 5 copies of Wrapped Around Your Finger, anyone know what year this was?

John Anderson had huge quantities of all the Sue group labels back in 1974/5 . Global Records bought a van full from Soul Bowl around 75/76 after John had taken everything of value. There weren't any J2 in this so either John kept them or they weren't in the Sue haul. I'd have thought that Richard Searling and Sam would have been offered (and played) Wrapped Around Your Finger so maybe it came from another later find.

Any estimate as to how many copies there are known about?

Also any info when and why Sue folded, probably change in young peoples music tastes ( them b****y hippies) leading to the hits drying up.

Any more info would be much appreciated.

 

 

[The Tempest]

In just over 40 yrs of collecting I’ve only ever seen two copies ! A true rarity indeed

[Woodbutcher]

One thing I noticed regarding the "DJ COPY" stamp is that it's on the "Wrapped" side on the one John just auctioned but it's on the "Tomorrow" side on Discogs (which is presented as the A-side)

And does anyone have a soundfile of the "Tomorrow" side ? I've hunted high and low but can't find one anywhere on line. 

[Tricky]

Pebble Episode is rock.

[Robbk]

2 hours ago, Rick Cooper said:

The Poets - Wrapped Around Your Finger on J2  recently sold on John Manship's  auction for £7119 and the follow on discussion gave some of the backstory. As it's one of my favourite records ( also Mrs C's) I did a  quick search to see what else is known about it and the J2 label. 

Other records on J2 are

The Pebble Episode -Tripsey / The Plum Song J2-1300

Baby Washington - Like A Rolling Stone/ New Yorker J2 1301

These are listed as 1967 releases so is it likely that Juggy Murray set up J2 straight after Sue/Symbol closed as a way of getting out  tracks already recorded at Sue. Maybe this didn't go down too well with companies that Sue owed money to and radio stations were cautious. There seems to be some promotion done on The Poets as John's auction copy was stamped "DJ Copy" and there is one with a Chips sticker on it. So does anyone know if any J2 records got magazine reviews or radio plays in the US ( I guess @The Yank would be the only one who would know). @Robbk did you see any J2 singles in shops in the sixties? Has anyone got the other J2 singles and are they worth much?

It was mentioned that John Anderson found the first 5 copies of Wrapped Around Your Finger, anyone know what year this was?

John Anderson had huge quantities of all the Sue group labels back in 1974/5 . Global Records bought a van full from Soul Bowl around 75/76 after John had taken everything of value. There weren't any J2 in this so either John kept them or they weren't in the Sue haul. I'd have thought that Richard Searling and Sam would have been offered (and played) Wrapped Around Your Finger so maybe it came from another later find.

Any estimate as to how many copies there are known about?

Also any info when and why Sue folded, probably change in young peoples music tastes ( them b****y hippies) leading to the hits drying up.

Any more info would be much appreciated.

 

 

We DIDN'T stock ANY of the J2 releases at Dolphin's of Hollywood.  I didn't see it stocked at Crain's, or Sam's, or Flash, or any of the other Ghetto record shops.  I DID see a few copies of The Poets' J2 record later, maybe they came to the West Coast as cutouts from Walgreen's or Woolworth's.  I also didn't see them stocked in Chicago.  I saw The Poets record maybe a few months after it was released.  I didn't see the Baby Washington until maybe 1970 or 1971.  THAT was dead rare.  I saw a fair amount of The Poets on J2.  But that might have been in The Midwest.  In any case, The Poets' was a rare record, and The Baby Washington was much more rare.   As far as I remember, The Poets' J2 record got no air play on WBEE, WVON, KGFJ, KDIA, or any of the Chicagoland, California, or Detroit stations.  And, of course The Baby Washington J2 was completely unknown.  Some collectors that had connections to The East Coast knew about The Poets' record.  I remember having seen a couple other J2 records.  But I can't remember who the artists were.  I don't remember seeing them as regularly stocked records in 1967 in retail shops.  They probably arrived as cutouts.  Those others would have even been rarer than The Poets'.

 

[Mick Boyle]

Without name dropping - Don Gardner took us to Juggy’s flat in New York quite a few years back. Juggy was suffering from Parkinson disease and was in sound mind but physically struggling. 
obviously I asked about WAYF and he said he had copies in the cupboard next to him. That cupboard remained closed throughout the visit. He said a guy called Jason had been and had 6 copies and Juggy was unaware of the value at the time and it wasn’t happening again. 
He said he owned 7 labels during his career. 
He passed away 6 months later and I was told he owned 2 garages on the ground floor with all his memorabilia in. Apparently it all went in skips.  

[Robbk]

3 minutes ago, Mick Boyle said:

Without name dropping - Don Gardner took us to Juggy’s flat in New York quite a few years back. Juggy was suffering from Parkinson disease and was in sound mind but physically struggling. 
obviously I asked about WAYF and he said he had copies in the cupboard next to him. That cupboard remained closed throughout the visit. He said a guy called Jason had been and had 6 copies and Juggy was unaware of the value at the time and it wasn’t happening again. 
He said he owned 7 labels during his career. 
He passed away 6 months later and I was told he owned 2 garages on the ground floor with all his memorabilia in. Apparently it all went in skips.  

It's a shame that all Juggy's memorabilia, paperwork, tapes and record stock was lost to posterity.

[Happy Feet]

Just now, Robbk said:

It's a shame that all Juggy's memorabilia, paperwork, tapes and record stock was lost to posterity.

Unless someone connected to the the clear out company realised what they where clearing out was historical , it's a possibility 

[Robbk]

3 hours ago, Happy Feet said:

Unless someone connected to the the clear out company realised what they where clearing out was historical , it's a possibility. 

Well, if such a saving move DID occur, nothing of extra-ordinary value or significance came from it as I don't remember any great unknown finds showing up on auction or in a book on Juggy's life or his record industry career, or rare or unknown records or tapes being discovered.  The guy who saved his stuff must be hoarding it to himself.  My guess is that it's all deteriorating back to soil in some landfill in New Jersey, owned by The Mafia.  

[The Yank]

I didn't find any airplay info for "Wrapped.." but I did find one station who had the B side as a pick hit. I guess whoever typed the survey was so used to seeing the Poets on Sue they didn't notice it was on J-2 -

 

 

[Robbk]

5 hours ago, The Yank said:

I didn't find any airplay info for "Wrapped.." but I did find one station who had the B side as a pick hit. I guess whoever typed the survey was so used to seeing the Poets on Sue they didn't notice it was on J-2 -

 

 

Maybe that J-2 record ONLY made the "Pick Hit" category because the error was made, listing its label as "Sue Records" due to recent familiarity with The Poets being a Sue contracted group, as Sue's distributor may have told radio stations NOT to plug Juggy's new J-2 label's releases because Sue's assets were in receivership, and there were questions  as to whether or not the J-2 releases had been recorded and  paid for using Sue's assets, which had been awarded to Sue's creditors.  

Edited Saturday at 08:49 by Robbk

[Dobber]

Nice little fantasy is the sight of a uk sue 45 with poets wrapped around your finger,given the dubious history it could have been a possibility?

[Chalky]

The first 5 came from Val Shivley who had bought out the DJ and record shop owner Butterball.  They were sold for £200 each.  The first to Butch, he was the first I heard play it.  Then Carl Fortnum at places like Bradford.  The year would be 90/91 I guess. 
 

Been a few surface since then.  Not as rare as some think but still a rare 45. 

Edited Saturday at 10:36 by Chalky

[Spook]

14 hours ago, Woodbutcher said:

One thing I noticed regarding the "DJ COPY" stamp is that it's on the "Wrapped" side on the one John just auctioned but it's on the "Tomorrow" side on Discogs (which is presented as the A-side)

And does anyone have a soundfile of the "Tomorrow" side ? I've hunted high and low but can't find one anywhere on line. 

A couple of clicks at the start , never played it before 

 

 

[Dobber]

16 minutes ago, Spook said:

A couple of clicks at the start , never played it before 

 

 

I reckon at the time of release wayf was defo meant to be the hit?

[Rick Cooper]

15 hours ago, Tricky said:

Pebble Episode is rock.

First copies were mistakenly  credited to Vincent Oddo, who was the engineer.

It may be rock but that wouldn't have stopped Russ playing The Plum Song

More info from a group member on these youtube clips. Seems a strange release for a soul label.

 

 

 

[Woodbutcher]

4 hours ago, Spook said:

A couple of clicks at the start , never played it before 

 

 

Liking that a lot , thank you for posting it ... 

[Mick Boyle]

Don Gardner. Juggy Murray, Rob Thomas & myself. 

[Robbk]

On 15/02/2025 at 05:21, Rick Cooper said:

First copies were mistakenly  credited to Vincent Oddo, who was the engineer.

It may be rock but that wouldn't have stopped Russ playing The Plum Song

More info from a group member on these youtube clips. Seems a strange release for a soul label.

 

 

 

Never saw that J-2.  It must be very rare.  As to the Poets, at least one or two boxes of that one must have escaped Juggy's cache.

[Robbk]

On 15/02/2025 at 05:21, Rick Cooper said:

First copies were mistakenly  credited to Vincent Oddo, who was the engineer.

It may be rock but that wouldn't have stopped Russ playing The Plum Song

More info from a group member on these youtube clips. Seems a strange release for a soul label.

 

 

 

Never saw that J-2.  It must be very rare.  As to the Poets, at least one or two boxes of that one must have escaped Juggy's cache.

[Chalky]

On 15/02/2025 at 11:25, Spook said:

A couple of clicks at the start , never played it before 

 

 

I don't think I've heard that side before, if I have I don't recollect.  Pretty damn good too, thanks.

[Rick Cooper]

4 hours ago, Robbk said:

Never saw that J-2.  It must be very rare.  As to the Poets, at least one or two boxes of that one must have escaped Juggy's cache.

There's an interesting article about The Pebble Episode J-2 record. It seems the group had been signed to Sue but then doesn't explain why it was issued on J-2 after both parties fell out.

https://garagehangover.com/the-pebble-episode/

[Ady Croasdell]

I got a copy from Juggy along with a really nice girl dancer acetate.