Charles Farren - Hawk Records

[Theothertosspot]

Hi, any info appreciated on this. 

I have noticed that there are two very similar releases or label design of this. 

Which was first release or were they simultaneously released. 

 

 

Regards 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chalky]

I'd imagine the top one was a first then the second when a distribution deal was struck

[Blackpoolsoul]

8 hours ago, Chalky said:

I'd imagine the top one was a first then the second when a distribution deal was struck

The DJ Copies had the distribution as well. I always wondered where the Limelight releases fitted in. but I guess Bob let Mercury have it ?

Edited Tuesday at 17:27 by Blackpoolsoul

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

The DJ Copies had the distribution as well. I always wondered where the Limelight release fitted in. but I guess Bob let Mercury have it ?

I presume the DJ copy is for the bottom scan.  Both the same layout just slightly different colour.

[Blackpoolsoul]

5 hours ago, Chalky said:

I presume the DJ copy is for the bottom scan.  Both the same layout just slightly different colour.

DJ is white Karl 

Edited Tuesday at 17:29 by Blackpoolsoul

[Theothertosspot]

Are there any demos of the non USA distribution? 

[Blackpoolsoul]

24 minutes ago, Theothertosspot said:

Are there any demos of the non USA distribution? 

Never seen one

[Chalky]

33 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Never seen one

me neither

[Robbk]

I've also never seen a non-USA-distributed demo.  I assume that Bob Lee leased it to Mercury after the local Chicago sales got high enough.  That was during the time when Mercury's relatively new Chicago office was looking to grab up a lot of the local talent.  He did that with several of his productions.  His productions were all over the map.  He was one of the most prolific producers who never had a long deal with any one label.  

I wonder if Lee was a bit quirky, and maybe not the easiest to get along with?

Edited Friday at 19:04 by Robbk

[Mikehump]

In addition to number R3616A there is a hand drawn mark - as photo on the USA distributed version. 

Pressing plant?

Hump

[Theothertosspot]

Same on the non USA press so presumably done at same plant? 

Regards 

[Blackpoolsoul]

16 minutes ago, Theothertosspot said:

Same on the non USA press so presumably done at same plant? 

Regards 

This could be a new one 

 

[Robbk]

7 hours ago, Mikehump said:

In addition to number R3616A there is a hand drawn mark - as photo on the USA distributed version. 

Pressing plant?

Hump

I'm sure that's a pressing plant marking.  I've seen it on several Chicago label records.  I'd bet it's a fairly small, indie,  Midwestern pressing plant.

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

I'm sure that's a pressing plant marking.  I've seen it on several Chicago label records.  I'd bet it's a fairly small, indie,  Midwestern pressing plant.

could be the engineer or the mastering company as well?  I've asked the question on discogs forum as I don't know it either.

[Woodbutcher]

Closest thing I can find so far is the Plastylite 'ear' mark.

But that was a New Jersey outfit.

 

[Theothertosspot]

Top pic is non USA

Bottom pic is USA one

Both very similar but from where? 

To be fair the top one looks good whereas the bottom one looks not quite so. Could be resolution though

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 21:16 by Theothertosspot

[Robbk]

3 hours ago, Chalky said:

could be the engineer or the mastering company as well?  I've asked the question on discogs forum as I don't know it either.

It certainly could be the mastering Co., just as much as the possibility of the pressing plant.   I haven't heard that recording engineers put marks in the trailout.

[Woodbutcher]

26 minutes ago, Robbk said:

It certainly could be the mastering Co., just as much as the possibility of the pressing plant.   I haven't heard that recording engineers put marks in the trailout.

Really ... you must have seen for example the words "A Porky Prime Cut" scratched in the deadwax at some point in your vinyl wanderings , the trademark of the great Mr George Peckham.

 

Edited yesterday at 00:15 by Woodbutcher

[Robbk]

2 hours ago, Theothertosspot said:

Top pic is non USA

Bottom pic is USA one

Both very similar but from where? 

To be fair the top one looks good whereas the bottom one looks not quite so. Could be resolution though

 

 

 

It looks, to me, like "C. I. ".  One of Columbia's?  IF the tail of the letter C's portion that crosses the vertical line represents the letter "T", THEN it is a fancy "CT", which would represent Columbia Terre Haute.  However, I don't think the pressings look like those of the Terre Haute plant, not being styrene, and the label printing fonts and graphic layout doesn't look anything like what Terre Haute EVER used.  So I doubt that the logo represents "CT".   I can't think of any Columbia facility that is in a city that starts with the letter, "I".  But, the only codes that I know of that start with the letter, "C", are Columbia's.

Regarding the label and font style, I recognise them as those used by of one of the main Illinois pressing plants used by northern and central Illinois record labels, and especially independent labels.  Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of that plant.

[Robbk]

1 minute ago, Woodbutcher said:

Really ... you must have seen for example the words "A Porky Prime Cut" scratched in the deadwax at some point in your vinyl wanderings , the trademark of the great Mr George Peckham.

Now that you mentioned that, I DO remember seeing that type of marking, and wondering what that represented.

[Woodbutcher]

Just now, Robbk said:

Now that you mentioned that, I DO remember seeing that type of marking, and wondering what that represented.

https://www.discogs.com/artist/380591-George-Peckham?superFilter=Technical

[Woodbutcher]

Could it be a quickly and scruffily scratched 'Q' maybe ? 

Quality in Toronto was 'just down the road'.

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, Woodbutcher said:

https://www.discogs.com/artist/380591-George-Peckham?superFilter=Technical

Of course he etched that, because he mastered the record.

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, Woodbutcher said:

Could it be a quickly and scruffily scratched 'Q' maybe ? 

Quality in Toronto was 'just down the road'.

It certainly could be a lower case "q".  It could be a backwards "p".  It could be, or represent a LOT of different things.  

[Woodbutcher]

7 hours ago, Robbk said:

It certainly could be a lower case "q".  It could be a backwards "p".  It could be, or represent a LOT of different things.  

No need to be so prickly Robb , I'm just throwing ideas into the pot that haven't been mentioned thus far. 

And there are umpteen examples of engineers marking the metalwork they've produced , not every deadwax mark is a pressing plant identifier. 

https://www.discogs.com/group/thread/678616 

Edited yesterday at 09:16 by Woodbutcher

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, Woodbutcher said:

No need to be so prickly Robb , I'm just throwing ideas into the pot that haven't been mentioned thus far. 

And there are umpteen examples of engineers marking the metalwork they've produced , not every deadwax mark is a pressing plant identifier. 

https://www.discogs.com/group/thread/678616 

Sorry.  I didn't mean at all to be prickly.  I was agreeing with you about it looking like a "q", and just adding another possibility.   And I wasn't trying to disparage the idea that a recording engineer would mark a record if they cut the master.  

[Woodbutcher]

5 minutes ago, Robbk said:

Sorry.  I didn't mean at all to be prickly.  I was agreeing with you about it looking like a "q", and just adding another possibility.   And I wasn't trying to disparage the idea that a recording engineer would mark a record if they cut the master.  

No worries , I just took the capitalised 'LOT' the wrong way ... 

[Robbk]

7 hours ago, Woodbutcher said:

No worries , I just took the capitalised 'LOT' the wrong way ... 

Thanks, I only meant it could represent a lot of different alphabet letters and individual symbols of record masterers or pressing plants, rather than a wide gamut like "everything in The World".  If I ever say anything "personal" about any forum poster's actions, it will only be positive, in praise, not putting someone down.  I wouldn't want to be "combative" and ruin the mood here, of people who come here to learn and share knowledge and bringing good music to each other.

[Chalky]

I don’t think it looks anything like a Q, hasty or otherwise. If any letter it looks more like an e of some sort. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Chalky

[Robbk]

3 hours ago, Chalky said:

I don’t think it looks anything like a Q, hasty or otherwise. If any letter it looks more like an e of some sort. 

It could be a lower case "e" on its side, based on what looks like a "base" on the bottom of the vertical line.   But IF that were the case, the "base" of the symbol would be on its left side.  We have no way of knowing what it stands for, unless we can think of which pressing plants, and record masterers in that region's company or owners or staff personal names could match what the symbol represents.  It's like a shot in the dark, unless we can find some documentation that matches the information we know is concrete.