Gladys Knight- How Do You Say Goodbye

[Ageing Face]

I’ve bought this 1975 album for the title track 

I checked the album out on Discogs & it’s listed as a re-issue.  The CD I have it on is a 1961-1965 compilation so was the original release much earlier? Does anyone know anything about the original release, or anything about the track in general for that matter? I’m drawing a blank on it 

Thanks in advance 

[John Reed]

I always thought this was one of the previously unreleased tracks from Maxx, Vee Jay or one of Bobby Robinson's label's, used to cash-in on Knight's success with Midnight Train To Georgia on Buddah, after leaving Motown.  The Springboard subsidiary Trip also released some "budget" LPs on Knight on 1973/74 containing retrospective recordings, with labels in the UK (Pickwick/Hallmark) as well in Europe releasing the same/similar stuff.

[Ageing Face]

Thanks for this John. I can assume that as you say they were cashing in as this is a 1975 release. 

This is probably also why I can’t find any info about the track
 

[Chalky]

39 minutes ago, John Reed said:

I always thought this was one of the previously unreleased tracks from Maxx, Vee Jay or one of Bobby Robinson's label's, used to cash-in on Knight's success with Midnight Train To Georgia on Buddah, after leaving Motown.  The Springboard subsidiary Trip also released some "budget" LPs on Knight on 1973/74 containing retrospective recordings, with labels in the UK (Pickwick/Hallmark) as well in Europe releasing the same/similar stuff.

It sounds earlier than the Maxx material, maybe from Bobby Robinson stable as you say when she recorded for Fury.

[Ageing Face]

7 minutes ago, Chalky said:

It sounds earlier than the Maxx material, maybe from Bobby Robinson stable as you say when she recorded for Fury.

Would that make it around 63

[Chalky]

53 minutes ago, Ageing Face said:

Would that make it around 63

Yes, Fury recordings are from 61/62, could be Veejay as in a similar vein which is 63.  It is a strange compilation for sure.

[Ageing Face]

16 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Yes, Fury recordings are from 61/62, could be Veejay as in a similar vein which is 63.  It is a strange compilation for sure.

Thanks Chalky,

I’ll see if I can find any details by looking up Veejay & Fury recordings 

[Windlesoul]

Fury days is plausible I guess although I have no insight on this specific recording. There was a real recording frenzy partly facilitated by Bobby Robinson at Beltone studios (NY) in the early 60s, which is hardly documented if at all. A whole gaggle of artists, writers and producers did a string of sessions over a set number of consecutive days, using each other as backing singers, swapping musicians etc. Gladys was there, along with Maurice Williams and the Zodiacs, Bob Meyer and Nat Speirs of the Rivieras, Horace Ott, even Jimi Hendrix I think. Certain the session was Nov '62 as Betty Boothe's 45 on Enjoy was recorded at those sessions, and 45cat lists that recording as that date.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Windlesoul

[Ageing Face]

19 minutes ago, Windlesoul said:

Fury days is plausible I guess although I have no insight on this specific recording. There was a real recording frenzy partly facilitated by Bobby Robinson at Beltone studios (NY) in the early 60s, which is hardly documented if at all. A whole gaggle of artists, writers and producers did a string of sessions over a set number of consecutive days, using each other as backing singers, swapping musicians etc. Gladys was there, along with Maurice Williams and the Zodiacs, Bob Meyer and Nat Speirs of the Rivieras, Horace Ott, even Jimi Hendrix I think. Certain the session was Nov '62 as Betty Boothe's 45 on Enjoy was recorded at those sessions, and 45cat lists that recording as that date.

Thanks for the insight, the more I learn from you guys the less likely I think I am to get to the bottom of it 

[Rick Cooper]

The CD I've got this track on is Letter Full Of Tears from Acrobat Music  (2008) which has a good information booklet, unlike previous compilations. This goes into a bit more detail on the Springboard/ Trip LPs stating that a tax break in the 1970s and 80s let other companies lease early tracks and benefit from tax advantages. Vee Jay, Maxx and Fury all took advantage of this but the resulting albums lacked details of each track. Bob Fisher, who compiled the CD and wrote the booklet didn't state where the unreleased ones came from , so if he doesn't know I doubt anyone else will. To me it doesn't sound like a Maxx recording.

The writers and publisher for How Do You Say Goodbye are Reardon- Schweikert and Warner Chappell North America. These writers only appear on this track so no help narrowing it down but if anyone can trace the song to a BMI entry it should help. 

[Ageing Face]

6 minutes ago, Rick Cooper said:

The CD I've got this track on is Letter Full Of Tears from Acrobat Music  (2008) which has a good information booklet, unlike previous compilations. This goes into a bit more detail on the Springboard/ Trip LPs stating that a tax break in the 1970s and 80s let other companies lease early tracks and benefit from tax advantages. Vee Jay, Maxx and Fury all took advantage of this but the resulting albums lacked details of each track. Bob Fisher, who compiled the CD and wrote the booklet didn't state where the unreleased ones came from , so if he doesn't know I doubt anyone else will. To me it doesn't sound like a Maxx recording.

The writers and publisher for How Do You Say Goodbye are Reardon- Schweikert and Warner Chappell North America. These writers only appear on this track so no help narrowing it down but if anyone can trace the song to a BMI entry it should help. 

Thanks for that Rick, I hadn’t thought about going down the route of the writers & publishers

[Windlesoul]

Ernest G. Schweikert, Frank Reardon, as an aside seem to be Decca staff writers in earlier days or were at least prolific there, there's even a Sammy Davis Jnr connection in the late 50s. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Windlesoul

[The Yank]

I found this Spanish label release with the writers listed as Covay/Knight/ Otis which seems about right- it does sound like it could have been cut around the time of "Letter Full Of Tears. To be fair,I've also seen the writers listed as Goffin/ King which doesn't sound like one of their songs- 

 

[Blackpoolsoul]

10 hours ago, Ageing Face said:

Thanks Chalky,

I’ll see if I can find any details by looking up Veejay & Fury recordings 

I checked through Bill Dahl's interview with Bubba in 2020 and I can't see it mentioned, perhaps someone can contact Bill to ask the question.

https://www.sunsetblvdrecords.com/blog/2020/10/20/gladys-knight-amp-the-pips-essential-1961-1965

[Ageing Face]

8 hours ago, The Yank said:

I found this Spanish label release with the writers listed as Covay/Knight/ Otis which seems about right- it does sound like it could have been cut around the time of "Letter Full Of Tears. To be fair,I've also seen the writers listed as Goffin/ King which doesn't sound like one of their songs- 

 

Thank you, that would tie in with Windlesoul’s Beltone recordings post

[Mikehump]

There is a compilation UK album by Bulldog records. "Gladys Knight: Looking back  - the Fury years", it includes "How do you say goodbye". Style is like the other Fury recordings I have.

Hump

[Ageing Face]

25 minutes ago, Mikehump said:

There is a compilation UK album by Bulldog records. "Gladys Knight: Looking back  - the Fury years", it includes "How do you say goodbye". Style is like the other Fury recordings I have.

Hump

Thanks Hump,

I assume that’ll make it 1962 

[Mikehump]

My old (2002) Goldmine R&B Catalog says records by "The Pips" were released by Fury into 1963. See attached. A i962 date ties in with the very detailed notes from Bill Dahl's interview with Bubba. Gladys was taking a break andthe Pips issued a single in 1963 without her. Facinating stuff.