What Goes up Must Come Down (Soul Inc / The Charms Unlimited

[Soul-slider]

On 11/11/2024 at 08:06, Mal C said:

I know Trev, I like that "somebody pressed the record button too late" it smacks of those cock ups that make record collecting so interesting. Love the Soul Supply guys, their LP's were essential, but there have been a few instances where the wrong track was laid next to the wrong title, Soul Incorporated on Emblem (Yellow and shield design) for instance on the 'Untouchables' LP... maybe that’s for another thread.

 

Yes, I spotted that Soul Incorporated track on the 'Untouchables' LP, it was the other version by 'The Charms Unlimited' on the red/white Emblem label wasn't it Mal?

I think they were the same group, just 2 different recordings of that tune.

Edited 17 hours ago by Soul-slider

[Mal C]

10 hours ago, Soul-slider said:

Yes, I spotted that Soul Incorporated track on the 'Untouchables' LP, it was the other version by 'The Charms Unlimited' on the red/white Emblem label wasn't it Mal?

I think they were the same group, just 2 different recordings of that tune.

Yep, same group, two different recordings, the Live one came out on the wholey live Lp on Emblem, very scant detail on the label or sleeve, but running time 2.18, then again on the Yellow label Emblem 45 same cut, but with longer runnin time 2.23.   Then a studio cut came out on the 'Charms Unlimited' on the red/yellow/white Emblem label with an additional ten seconds, or there about. Scans below, dont own the yellow one.

 

[Mal C]

Grabbed this off the net. It would be good to work out which one came first, were these guys in the studio first, or did they decide on a live recording of their gigs, then get the chance to record in the studio.  I'm guessing Deacon Poole Promotions were an arm of Calico Enterprises.

Just listened to the Lp again, WGUMCD is the only track on there that doesnt have any crowd on the audio. This is a guess, but I wonder whether they intended to release that as a 45, and maybe recorded it in the warm up, or without the club being full... then, why the name change?

[Kenb]

2 hours ago, Mal C said:

Grabbed this off the net. It would be good to work out which one came first, were these guys in the studio first, or did they decide on a live recording of their gigs, then get the chance to record in the studio.  I'm guessing Deacon Poole Promotions were an arm of Calico Enterprises.

Just listened to the Lp again, WGUMCD is the only track on there that doesnt have any crowd on the audio. This is a guess, but I wonder whether they intended to release that as a 45, and maybe recorded it in the warm up, or without the club being full... then, why the name change?

 

It's a good question, and one i'd pondered several times wrt The live album versus the single.

Soul Inc members had come via iterations of the Medallions, Pieces of Eight, etc. to form as Soul Inc in about Sept 1966. "Good To The Last Drop/What Goes Up Must Come Down" was being touted as a release in Autum 1967 and a major West Coast label were interested in the band.

The Cellar in Charlotte, NC (where the Emblem label had the live performance recorded) opened in April 1965. Artists that played there included The Tams, Major Lance, and Barbara Lewis to name a few.

In April 1968 Soul Inc at The Cellar ( this relates to the LP) was also being touted as released.

So, on Discographies we have, 

Soul Inc, S-100 / S-101, as 1967. Recorded Live at The Cellar

Soul Inc, LP 106 live at The Cellar, as 1968

The Charms, E109, as 1969 

I think it's safe to assume that Soul Inc, were only live at The Cellar once where a recording was made. I doubt anyone would set up a mobile recording facility for a single (S-100) and then again for a LP (106) sometime later. In which case the Single & LP release dates may be wrong. Could the Single have been released from the LP? But how, it can't have been released in 1967 if the Live recorded album hadn't been recorded until 1968? 

It's not to say he (Joe) didn't have one, but I don't know of any mobile recording facility at Joe Huffman's Mark V studio in Greenville. So i suspect S 100 was likely something that he produced but wasn't recording at his Studio. 

 

 

 

[Benji]

According to Discogs and based on the linked YT vids as reference (and I know how easy it is to link the wrong video) my understanding is:

7" Emblem 101 - Soul Inc. WGUMCD (Studio Cut)

LP Emblem 106 - Soul Inc WGUMCD (Studio cut, rest of album is "live")

7" Emblem 109 - Charts Unlimited WGUMCD (same song but completely different version)

Correct?

PS: Sorry for hijacking the John & Wierdest thread.

[Mal C]

I thought I had it, but the reverse of the Lp, talks about the opening of the Cellar club, not the night or importantly, the date of the Soul Inc Gig.

"Without Fanfare or Publicity there opened in the spring of 1966 in the basement of an old vacant building on East Morehead Street in Charlotte Carolina, a small club aptly names 'The Cellar Club’.

I would say, from the quality of 'WGUMCD' against the rest of the tracks on the Lp, that it's recorded elsewhere and at a different time to the Lp, this is just a guess. 

So, Soul Inc form in Sept 1966. I think that there was a recording session of 'WGUMCD' and that was used in the Yellow Emblem single and added to the LP there after.

How does that work?

25 minutes ago, Benji said:

According to Discogs and based on the linked YT vids as reference (and I know how easy it is to link the wrong video) my understanding is:

7" Emblem 101 - Soul Inc. WGUMCD (Studio Cut)

LP Emblem 106 - Soul Inc WGUMCD (Studio cut, rest of album is "live")

7" Emblem 109 - Charts Unlimited WGUMCD (same song but completely different version)

Correct?

PS: Sorry for hijacking the John & Wierdest thread.

Not at all, I love threads like this... In fact I think I have come to the same conclusion as you Benji, and Ken has said the same, it was recorded elsewhere, the Yellow 45 and track one/side two on the LP. It has to be.

When? no idea, but late 66 into 67? 

re the name change, lots of Soul Inc's out there, and groups that form from other groups do seem to suffer issues with group names.

I think it's likely that this is the issue here, it maybe that the 3 approx years we are discussing was too much without having anything much on the market, or very little. Members leave, and new group forms under a new name, and they have cut an old track.

[Benji]

Soul Inc 7" and LP version of WGUMCD sound like the same version to me. Clearly studio recordings. Maybe they didn't have enough live material for an entire album and added this studio cut?

[Dobber]

The charms ltd is the same song as mentioned,the live one sounds different because on the night they may have just played it that way

personally I much prefer the charms 45 because it’s the one I heard first in the 80’s off tgesoul supply lp!

the charms ltd 45 is actually very rare,try getting one!