Kent Anniversary counterfeits or are they?

[67lamb]

I guess this is why some ebay sellers are now including their Anniversary ticket in with the record...?

 

[Dylan]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

If that company still has the stampers/masters then there is nothing to stop them pressing more.

something doesn’t look right with what is going on. 

This is what I was thinking.  They still have stampers and these have been pressed recently.  It’s only guess work on my part.

[Mithras]

The Magicians over 40 copies have gone through discogs alone  against a comparison of 14 for Sharon Scotts??? and 3 for sale at the moment... 

[Tobytyke]

I paid over £100 for the magicians 10 years ago. 

I dont attend the 100 club but appreciate the quality and rarity of the singles.

I have over half of them and would like to complete the set.

However this has changed my mind paying lots of money for something that's being pressed as we speak.

This is morally unacceptable.  If whoever it is wants to churn these records out why doesn't he slap a plain white label on them and sell them for a tenner, I'm sure there would be plenty of buyers and we would all know where we stand. 

[Woodbutcher]

4 hours ago, Mithras said:

 This is Feedback of one seller on ebay  all same tittles and has sold more than the feedback shows  this is detailed by the sales history and its only kent 45's also he is not the only seller and same tittles crop up this has been going on for over a year with different sellers and does not take in account discogs sales....looks quite odd 4 MAGICIANS?? these keep cropping up on ebay

I did say this and post a link to the feedback details on Sunday ... 

[Woodbutcher]

I had always assumed that the metalwork would be returned to the customer , ie. Ady , along with the 45s ... ?

[Woodbutcher]

The last five copies of "Good News" on Popsike all sold between 7th June 2024 and 24th August 2024 ... all from the same seller as all have the identical description wording as the latest ones on the bay , 3 x £155 and then 2 x £170.

[Mithras]

2 hours ago, Woodbutcher said:

I did say this and post a link to the feedback details on Sunday ... 

More to come i got most of the title's  in dispute from a Melton Mobrey seller who was on ebay... got them cheap pre covid before it went crazy on prices ... checked it out  they use   seller name  on  Discogs and guess what  same titles there??? Magicians..... and the rest  However they sell soul related discs as well...

 

 

[Happy Feet]

3 hours ago, Tobytyke said:

I paid over £100 for the magicians 10 years ago. 

I dont attend the 100 club but appreciate the quality and rarity of the singles.

I have over half of them and would like to complete the set.

However this has changed my mind paying lots of money for something that's being pressed as we speak.

This is morally unacceptable.  If whoever it is wants to churn these records out why doesn't he slap a plain white label on them and sell them for a tenner, I'm sure there would be plenty of buyers and we would all know where we stand. 

And there lies the problem, they whoever they may be , want to make as much money as possible before being caught out , then they'll more than likely dump them at £3 to £6 each on the ebay sellers ,to sell on say £15 to £ 20, once the cat is out of the bag .

It's happened before I'm afraid. 

[Dean Rudland]

10 hours ago, Chalky said:

If that company still has the stampers/masters then there is nothing to stop them pressing more.

something doesn’t look right with what is going on. 

On these records they won’t for a number of reasons. 
On the ones that were already known about it could be a problem. But those one’s aren’t really worth much anyway. 
 

[Woodbutcher]

20 minutes ago, Dean Rudland said:

On these records they won’t for a number of reasons. 
On the ones that were already known about it could be a problem. But those one’s aren’t really worth much anyway. 
 

What a ridiculous statement , there are plenty of bootleggers out there making a living selling £15 pressings so knocking them out for over a ton a piece is a very lucrative enterprise indeed.

[Dean Rudland]

7 hours ago, Woodbutcher said:

What a ridiculous statement , there are plenty of bootleggers out there making a living selling £15 pressings so knocking them out for over a ton a piece is a very lucrative enterprise indeed.

Chalky was I think was asking if it was possible that these latest records that have come up for sale are being pressed from the original parts, and my answer, based on working for Ace/ Kent amongst other labels is no. 
Most big factories protect their clients metalwork and it is very difficult for this to happen at the time of a release. Metalwork is then destroyed after a couple of years in most plants. 
So it is virtually impossible that if these are bootlegs that they are coming from the original parts.
The over pressing of Anniversary titles happened at one plant and at the time the record was originally pressed.  
But it’s great to see that Soul Source whilst less populated is still the place where people with actual knowledge of the question are shouted down as ridiculous. 

[Woodbutcher]

41 minutes ago, Dean Rudland said:

Chalky was I think was asking if it was possible that these latest records that have come up for sale are being pressed from the original parts, and my answer, based on working for Ace/ Kent amongst other labels is no. 
Most big factories protect their clients metalwork and it is very difficult for this to happen at the time of a release. Metalwork is then destroyed after a couple of years in most plants. 
So it is virtually impossible that if these are bootlegs that they are coming from the original parts.
The over pressing of Anniversary titles happened at one plant and at the time the record was originally pressed.  
But it’s great to see that Soul Source whilst less populated is still the place where people with actual knowledge of the question are shouted down as ridiculous. 

I was referring to the part of your comment about the 'value' of the 45s.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that these are counterfeits pressed after the initial run , a quick look at the photos tells me that they're the real thing , but a proper close-up examination would reveal run-out discrepancies etc.

No-one's ever made a counterfeit that can't be spotted by some means or other .

The question is whether more titles were over-pressed than originally thought , but if not then where did these multiple 'brand new' copies suddenly spring from and end up in the hands of one particular seller on the bay.

Perhaps you'd be so kind , in your capacity as the self-proclaimed expert and connections the label , to undertake said investigation on behalf of the rest of us mere mortals. 

 

[Dean Rudland]

3 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

I was referring to the part of your comment about the 'value' of the 45s.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that these are counterfeits pressed after the initial run , a quick look at the photos tells me that they're the real thing , but a proper close-up examination would reveal run-out discrepancies etc.

No-one's ever made a counterfeit that can't be spotted by some means or other .

The question is whether more titles were over-pressed than originally thought , but if not then where did these multiple 'brand new' copies suddenly spring from and end up in the hands of one particular seller on the bay.

Perhaps you'd be so kind , in your capacity as the self-proclaimed expert and connections the label , to undertake said investigation on behalf of the rest of us mere mortals. 

 

First of all my value comment was on the copies that were over pressed, which go for about £25 at most. 
 

I’ll be clear - as I thought I had been - the over pressing by the plant occurred on only 3 titles, all pressed at the same pressing plant. 
 

Whoever is selling these either had copies from the night or has judiciously gathered some up since.

 

 

 

 

 

[Woodbutcher]

11 minutes ago, Dean Rudland said:

First of all my value comment was on the copies that were over pressed, which go for about £25 at most. 

I’ll be clear - as I thought I had been - the over pressing by the plant occurred on only 3 titles, all pressed at the same pressing plant. 
 

 

So just for clarification , which three 45s are you referring to that were overpressed and only make £25 ?

 

[Dean Rudland]

36 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

So just for clarification , which three 45s are you referring to that were overpressed and only make £25 ?

 

Nancy Wilcox, Sandra Richardson and Classic Example

I think it's worth noting that 300 copies is a lot to be circulating when demand dips or there isn't any to start with.

So for instance one of my favourites - The Magnificent - which definitely wasn't over-pressed goes for less than Sandra Richardson which was over -pressed, and is more than £25 for a copy now, I see.

The one's being sold at the moment were very in demand when they came out and the prices have dropped a bit since then (or certainly those records hang around longer now). If someone had a business with over pressed stock the time to get rid of them would have been at the time.

But as I say, it is almost impossible to do at a big factory and those three were the ones printed at the smaller rogue factory.

 

 

 

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Dean Rudland said:

First of all my value comment was on the copies that were over pressed, which go for about £25 at most. 
 

I’ll be clear - as I thought I had been - the over pressing by the plant occurred on only 3 titles, all pressed at the same pressing plant. 
 

Whoever is selling these either had copies from the night or has judiciously gathered some up since.

 

 

 

I think there is more to it than gathering spare copies on the market, neither The Magicians, Milton Bennett nor The Paramount four have been selling cheap, all pretty much in demand titles. For one seller to sell multiple copies and still have copies for sale makes me thinks something dodgy going on.  I was offered the Mill Evans from the seller last night at a discount. 

[Dean Rudland]

14 minutes ago, Chalky said:

I think there is more to it than gathering spare copies on the market, neither The Magicians, Milton Bennett nor The Paramount four have been selling cheap, all pretty much in demand titles. For one seller to sell multiple copies and still have copies for sale makes me thinks something dodgy going on.  I was offered the Mill Evans from the seller last night at a discount. 

Maybe, but what?

These weren't over-pressed at the time I feel certain of that.

The Paramount Four has for instance sold 30 times on Discogs and the price has come down £100 from its peak, and the last one was up for a couple of months before it sold.

Same with the Magicians, for which there are three copies for sale from £325 on discogs, but it's highest price is £350, and every copy since then has sold for less.

Virtually all of these have had standard Kent issues since their first release.

The market for these is possibly not that big.

Edited October 30 by Dean Rudland

[Chalky]

3 hours ago, Dean Rudland said:

Maybe, but what?

These weren't over-pressed at the time I feel certain of that.

The Paramount Four has for instance sold 30 times on Discogs and the price has come down £100 from its peak, and the last one was up for a couple of months before it sold.

Same with the Magicians, for which there are three copies for sale from £325 on discogs, but it's highest price is £350, and every copy since then has sold for less.

Virtually all of these have had standard Kent issues since their first release.

The market for these is possibly not that big.

It’s a big gamble to take to hoover up copies for what is a sizeable outlay and hope to make a profit. It’s just odd that these few titles are appearing with regularity from the same sellers. 

[Happy Feet]

6 hours ago, Dean Rudland said:

Nancy Wilcox, Sandra Richardson and Classic Example

I think it's worth noting that 300 copies is a lot to be circulating when demand dips or there isn't any to start with.

So for instance one of my favourites - The Magnificent - which definitely wasn't over-pressed goes for less than Sandra Richardson which was over -pressed, and is more than £25 for a copy now, I see.

The one's being sold at the moment were very in demand when they came out and the prices have dropped a bit since then (or certainly those records hang around longer now). If someone had a business with over pressed stock the time to get rid of them would have been at the time.

But as I say, it is almost impossible to do at a big factory and those three were the ones printed at the smaller rogue factory.

 

 

 

What about the Smith Brothers ? 

[Blackpoolsoul]

17 minutes ago, Happy Feet said:

What about the Smith Brothers ? 

Everyone wants to sell them as there was a jump fault on the flip, which Ady explained, I believe.

[Woodbutcher]

Interesting that the seller has just started "offering discounts" to me because I viewed the items , anyone else had the same ... ?

 

[Happy Feet]

14 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

Interesting that the seller has just started "offering discounts" to me because I viewed the items , anyone else had the same ... ?

 

Yep 18% off .

[Mikehump]

1 hour ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Everyone wants to sell them as there was a jump fault on the flip, which Ady explained, I believe.

Mine doesn't skip, suppose that means it must be dodgy!!

The "person of interest" gets about. Earlier items for sale mention collect in person at Witney, Kidlington and Market Harborough. 

[Mithras]

just had an offer as well countered it with £5

[Happy Feet]

3 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Everyone wants to sell them as there was a jump fault on the flip, which Ady explained, I believe.

If they where handed out at the 39th Anniversary, no extra copies ? Then why did every seller on eBay & shops have them at a reasonable price , some still do ranging from £15 . upwards , I played Simon Barbee,The wind , the other night didn't notice any jump or skip .

[Mithras]

your right my copy does not jump?

[Chalky]

4 hours ago, Woodbutcher said:

Interesting that the seller has just started "offering discounts" to me because I viewed the items , anyone else had the same ... ?

 

Last night and today 

[Hunter Quint]

On 30/10/2024 at 09:28, Dean Rudland said:

Nancy Wilcox, Sandra Richardson and Classic Example

I think it's worth noting that 300 copies is a lot to be circulating when demand dips or there isn't any to start with.

So for instance one of my favourites - The Magnificent - which definitely wasn't over-pressed goes for less than Sandra Richardson which was over -pressed, and is more than £25 for a copy now, I see.

The one's being sold at the moment were very in demand when they came out and the prices have dropped a bit since then (or certainly those records hang around longer now). If someone had a business with over pressed stock the time to get rid of them would have been at the time.

But as I say, it is almost impossible to do at a big factory and those three were the ones printed at the smaller rogue factory.

 

 

 

My understanding of Ady Croasdell's message on Tuesday is that Sandra Richardson/Hytones was not over pressed

Edited October 31 by Hunter Quint

[Chalky]

3 hours ago, Hunter Quint said:

My understanding of Ady Croasdell's message on Tuesday is that Sandra Richardson/Hytones was not over pressed

Sandra Richardson was definitely one of those done.

[Hunter Quint]

My mistake, I just realized there're two Hytones.

Edited November 1 by Hunter Quint

[Tricky]

Not all copies of the wind jump so you are ding well if you have a good copy.

I was lucky I did.

[Supercorsa]

On 30/10/2024 at 15:30, Blackpoolsoul said:

Everyone wants to sell them as there was a jump fault on the flip, which Ady explained, I believe.

None of them jump.

On the night there was a note included alluding to a jump/skip, but the jump was caused by Ady's deck when playing the test copy.  That's why he thought there was a jump/skip. 

[Blackpoolsoul]

8 hours ago, Supercorsa said:

None of them jump.

On the night there was a note included alluding to a jump/skip, but the jump was caused by Ady's deck when playing the test copy.  That's why he thought there was a jump/skip. 

Thanks I read he had sent a letter out with them explaining they jumped.  Would love to see it.

 

[Roxie]

On 01/11/2024 at 05:47, Blackpoolsoul said:

Thanks I read he had sent a letter out with them explaining they jumped.  Would love to see it.

 

Hope you can enlarge the file to enable you to read the text 

 

Edited November 6 by Roxie

[Peter99]

9 hours ago, Roxie said:

Hope you can enlarge the file to enable you to read the text 

So Ady's jumpers don't jump! It's always a happier ending when jumpers don't jump.

Peter

[Happy Feet]

17 hours ago, Peter99 said:

So Ady's jumpers don't jump! It's always a happier ending when jumpers don't jump.

Peter

There's a copy of the Smith Bros./ Simon Barbee for sale on eBay at the moment for a mere £14. If anyone looking for a copy , now we no they don't jump.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315887197208?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=yrcpe4qaqei&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=XjYASWgLRuy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Ady Croasdell]

On 29/10/2024 at 14:56, Woodbutcher said:

I had always assumed that the metalwork would be returned to the customer , ie. Ady , along with the 45s ... ?

No, the metalwork usually stays at the factory

On 02/11/2024 at 10:44, Happy Feet said:

There's a copy of the Smith Bros./ Simon Barbee for sale on eBay at the moment for a mere £14. If anyone looking for a copy , now we no they don't jump.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315887197208?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=yrcpe4qaqei&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=XjYASWgLRuy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

That was one they over-pressed at the time and flogged copies shortly after

[Ady Croasdell]

On 31/10/2024 at 10:32, Hunter Quint said:

My understanding of Ady Croasdell's message on Tuesday is that Sandra Richardson/Hytones was not over pressed

There's two Hytones, hence some confusion. Good News was before the overpressing, Runaway Girl after

I have a "new" Good News to compare with theoriginal. I'll compare and report back and will try and find out which titles are likely to be compromised from being pressed at the dodgy factory.

[Ady Croasdell]

Apart from the RORO character on EBay does anyone know if there any other sellers on there or elsewhere who have sold more than three copies of any of the singles? If so links would be good, PM if you'd rather

[Happy Feet]

On 02/11/2024 at 10:44, Happy Feet said:

There's a copy of the Smith Bros./ Simon Barbee for sale on eBay at the moment for a mere £14. If anyone looking for a copy , now we no they don't jump.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315887197208?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=yrcpe4qaqei&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=XjYASWgLRuy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Someone bagged a bargain , it's been sold .

It is still after all a bloody great tune , just a shame that some one took advantage .

 

[Ady Croasdell]

On 04/11/2024 at 18:43, Happy Feet said:

Someone bagged a bargain , it's been sold .

It is still after all a bloody great tune , just a shame that some one took advantage .

 

They also sell a large selection of boots and Black Sabbath patches!

[Ady Croasdell]

On 30/10/2024 at 08:28, Dean Rudland said:

Nancy Wilcox, Sandra Richardson and Classic Example

I think it's worth noting that 300 copies is a lot to be circulating when demand dips or there isn't any to start with.

So for instance one of my favourites - The Magnificent - which definitely wasn't over-pressed goes for less than Sandra Richardson which was over -pressed, and is more than £25 for a copy now, I see.

The one's being sold at the moment were very in demand when they came out and the prices have dropped a bit since then (or certainly those records hang around longer now). If someone had a business with over pressed stock the time to get rid of them would have been at the time.

But as I say, it is almost impossible to do at a big factory and those three were the ones printed at the smaller rogue factory.

 

 

 

The Magnificents was one of the over-pressed ones

[Dean Rudland]

3 minutes ago, Ady Croasdell said:

The Magnificents was one of the over-pressed ones

Ah OK - thought it was only the 2 + 1.

Brilliant record

[Ady Croasdell]

OK, I've checked out the copy of 'Good News' that came from the Ebay Seller discussed and I can't see any difference at all. However that and the others that have been sold on the site were pressed at at least two different European plants, not the dodgy UK one responsible for the later over-presses. I think it's unlikely that anyone could have re-pressed from the masters, the labels would have had to have been identical too. I'm flummoxed.

Hopefully the seller has accumulated some over the years and is flogging them off, which is also unlikely. I think we're talking about relatively small numbers though and only a few titles - time will tell. Maybe I'll pop round and ask them next time I'm up.

The titles that were over-pressed are - I think

Smith Brothers

Lorraine Chandler

Sandra Richardson

Nancy Wilcox

Also the Classic Example is the only one I know definitely was but because I marked them they haven't appeared on the market.