Kent Anniversary counterfeits or are they?

[Tobytyke]

Looking on Ebay to purchase Kent anniversary singles and theres one guy on there with quite a few to sell.He advertises them as brand new which is a red flag in itself and calls them first pressings,

They are cheaper than I would expect to pay but far dearer than they should be if counterfeits. 

If they are fakes then how the hell do they get away with it.

Shouldn't Kent (Ady Crosdale) be taking action or indeed Ebay?

[The Tempest]

Link ? 

[Alan T]

I think i read on here that a few titles were over pressed at the factory and started to sell on Ebay and Discogs, not sure which releases they were. Ady was aware of it and reported it.

 

Edit : Found the thread, here it is.

 

Edited Saturday at 16:38 by Alan T

[Tobytyke]

Thanks for that Alan.

So theres no way of any purchasers knowing if they've got the real thing or not.

Or are they all genuine?

[Alan T]

1 minute ago, Tobytyke said:

Thanks for that Alan.

So theres no way of any purchasers knowing if they've got the real thing or not.

Or are they all genuine?

If they came from the same factory using the same labels and plates they'd look exactly as legit ones.

[Dylan]

1 hour ago, Alan T said:

If they came from the same factory using the same labels and plates they'd look exactly as legit ones.

Impossible to know if it’s from the official or unofficial batch then.  That makes it very awkward 

[Dylan]

So one of the over pressed 45s was marked up by Ady, sorry I didn’t read that detail before posting.

[Chalky]

36 minutes ago, Dylan said:

So one of the over pressed 45s was marked up by Ady, sorry I didn’t read that detail before posting.

It wasn't the over pressed copies Ady marked, it was the ones Kent gave out at the anniversary Ady marked.  Other than that they are identical pressed at the same time.

[Dylan]

22 minutes ago, Chalky said:

It wasn't the over pressed copies Ady marked, it was the ones Kent gave out at the anniversary Ady marked.  Other than that they are identical pressed at the same time.

Yes that’s what I meant he stamped those he gave out so unstamped were known to be dodgy.

[Woodbutcher]

Still no link to the offending articles ... 

[Happy Feet]

3 hours ago, Dylan said:

Yes that’s what I meant he stamped those he gave out so unstamped were known to be dodgy.

It's more than likely, whoever pressed them in the first place , pressed more than where ordered, held them back for a week or two , waiting for the annual rush to buy a copy , and then slowly etc etc , selling them through closely linked sources , but not their own , or am I just being over suspicious? 

[Tobytyke]

7 hours ago, Woodbutcher said:

Still no link to the offending articles ... 

Sorry dont know how to link.

However if you go onto Ebay and search Kent anniversary singles the seller comes up saying brand new records.

There are three on at the moment £85 £90 £150.

[Woodbutcher]

Someone listing three anniversary singles for sale doesn't set off any alarms for me , there are numerous times that similar listings have been made on here I'm sure.

What does have my spidey-sense tingling however are the decidely AI sounding near identical descriptions of all three 45s and even moreso the sellers feedback history that comprises only 100 Club Anniversary singles ... !

( He's based in Horace's old back yard too )  @Ady Croasdell

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?item=305761624211&rt=nc&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l170197&_ssn=roryro2313

https://www.ebay.co.uk/fdbk/mweb_profile?fdbkType=FeedbackReceivedAsSeller&item_id=305761624211&username=roryro2313&filter=feedback_page%3ARECEIVED_AS_SELLER&sort=RELEVANCE

Edited yesterday at 08:03 by Woodbutcher

[Tobytyke]

It would be interesting to know how many copies and which records were pressed in excess of the 300 which were distributed on the night.

And any Anniversary single purchased online could be one of the above with no way of knowing. It seems the only people who would know is the seller and Ady Croasdell.

[Peter99]

So I'm reading that the actual records are real in terms of their manufacture, but not licensed by Ady. Is that correct?

Peter

[davidwapples]

Pressed at the same time.from same plates but over the amount requested

 

Unless you know about the secret markings on the official.ones then you will never know.

 

Its not going to be easy to prove it but probably not the first limited edition release to have more than actually stated

[Chalky]

Two of the offending discs are the 35th and 36th Anniversary 45s along with the 42nd in the above look. 

[Woodbutcher]

23 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Two of the offending discs are the 35th and 36th Anniversary 45s along with the 42nd in the above look. 

And the discs on fleabay are the 22nd , 23rd and 31st anniversary singles.

So either the seller has bought a collection of the singles as a job lot and is now selling them on individually ( as any right-minded record dealer would do ) or the nefarious over-pressing has been going on longer than thought.

As there are feedback comments relating to sales of multiple copies of certain singles then I tend to agree that he's a wrong'un.

[Chalky]

6 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

And the discs on fleabay are the 22nd , 23rd and 31st anniversary singles.

So either the seller has bought a collection of the singles as a job lot and is now selling them on individually ( as any right-minded record dealer would do ) or the nefarious over-pressing has been going on longer than thought.

As there are feedback comments relating to sales of multiple copies of certain singles then I tend to agree that he's a wrong'un.

I didn't think the scam had been go on for as long as some of those discs but he has sold multiple copies so that would set alarm bells ringing.  I certainly don't recall extra copies of say Milton Bennett kicking around, there was no copies about when I sold mine.

[Blackpoolsoul]

20 hours ago, Alan T said:

I think i read on here that a few titles were over pressed at the factory and started to sell on Ebay and Discogs, not sure which releases they were. Ady was aware of it and reported it.

 

Edit : Found the thread, here it is.

 

Tim Brown commented on Discogs under the review section 12th August 2022

"Please note...this title NOT been bootlegged as has been stated by at least one seller."

[Alan T]

8 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Tim Brown commented on Discogs under the review section 12th August 2022

"Please note...this title NOT been bootlegged as has been stated by at least one seller."

How would he know what's been bootlegged ?

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Alan T said:

How would he know what's been bootlegged ?

They aren’t bootlegs or counterfeits in reality.  Tis very naughty what they did and probably illegal.  How would we know what was done? well certain titles began to appear in regularity, far more than anniversary attendees off loading their copies.  The two I mentioned above are the ones I first remember appearing like that. 

[Peter99]

37 minutes ago, Chalky said:

They aren’t bootlegs or counterfeits in reality.  Tis very naughty what they did and probably illegal.  How would we know what was done? well certain titles began to appear in regularity, far more than anniversary attendees off loading their copies.  The two I mentioned above are the ones I first remember appearing like that. 

Yes Karl, they're the real thing product wise, just not licensed by Ady in his capacity of having licensed them. 

[Chalky]

14 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

Yes Karl, they're the real thing product wise, just not licensed by Ady in his capacity of having licensed them. 

They simply pressed more than they should have done, gave Ady his allocation and sold the rest themselves

[davidwapples]

Wouldn't they press up a few extras anyway in case of breakage /  damage when doing a specific number ? just in case a few got dropped / knocked over before the event

[Dylan]

10 minutes ago, davidwapples said:

Wouldn't they press up a few extras anyway in case of breakage /  damage when doing a specific number ? just in case a few got dropped / knocked over before the event

Maybe but the fact they were being sold on open market suggests strongly / proves that wasn’t why extra copies were pressed.

 

10 extra copies at 100 quid each is easy money.  Multiply that up and the incentive is there

[Happy Feet]

2 hours ago, Dylan said:

Maybe but the fact they were being sold on open market suggests strongly / proves that wasn’t why extra copies were pressed.

 

10 extra copies at 100 quid each is easy money.  Multiply that up and the incentive is there

It could be an awful lot more , look how many Smith Brothers , Things etc are on sale now on eBay at various prices , & I've seen openly 20 plus copies at once in a record shop . So probably more copies on the black market than was given out on the night by Ady .

Edited Sunday at 19:26 by Happy Feet

[Dylan]

24 minutes ago, Happy Feet said:

It could be an awful lot more , look how many Smith Brothers , Things etc are on sale now on eBay at various prices , & I've seen openly 20 plus copies at once in a record shop . So probably more copies on the black market than was given out on the night by Ady .

I just used those numbers as an example I agree it’s probably a lot more.  With record prices the way they are lots of money to be made

[Happy Feet]

Ever since " Northern Soul" became a genre , if that's the correct description, we have been subjective, persuaded, coursed, into buying alternative releases sometimes cheaper than the original releases , sometimes not . Why , because there are greedy bastards out there that don't give a f**k about us, the scene , the artists , writers , publishers or copyrights .I've even found bootlegs , rebooted , reissues booted & sold for more than the originals in some cases , why , because there is a demand , it's like buying stolen goods on the high street , it should've been stopped and the Law enforced years ago , no market no bootlegging or in this case no extortion.

Rant over , just had 5 hrs in the man cave , playing through my Kent collection on various labels , anniversaries, Select , Town ,  Pied Piper , Deep Soul , Repro , Eps playing both A & B sides 45s only no albums , don't think I played half of them to be honest , just like to say thanks to Ady & the Kent team for a fantastic evening of great music.

[Chalky]

17 hours ago, davidwapples said:

Wouldn't they press up a few extras anyway in case of breakage /  damage when doing a specific number ? just in case a few got dropped / knocked over before the event

They would press what Ace/Kent requested, if the plant damaged or broke some then they would press the amount to replace. 

[Chalky]

15 hours ago, Happy Feet said:

It could be an awful lot more , look how many Smith Brothers , Things etc are on sale now on eBay at various prices , & I've seen openly 20 plus copies at once in a record shop . So probably more copies on the black market than was given out on the night by Ady .

Smith Brothers is probably one that was over pressed illegally. I don’t remember titles appearing in quantity on the open market before the Nancy Wilcox 36th anniversary 45.  Certainly don’t recall any titles like those Woodbutcher linked too, Paramount Four and Milton Bennett. 

[Mikehump]

I'm intrigued by the notion of those given on the night being marked in some way. I've had a look at my set and can't see anything obvious. Except for the last few years I've picked mine up from people who I know were there. But recently not. Does that mean some could be"dodgy"??

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Mikehump said:

I'm intrigued by the notion of those given on the night being marked in some way. I've had a look at my set and can't see anything obvious. Except for the last few years I've picked mine up from people who I know were there. But recently not. Does that mean some could be"dodgy"??

Could be one of those ultra violet light markers

[Alan T]

From sales history of "The Classic Example" 42nd Anniversary record on Discogs, the one Ady mentions on his thread.

14/10/22 - Comments:

From the Anniversary Night With The Special Mark on The 'B' Side Run Out Which Denotes It Came From That Night.

 

[Mikehump]

9 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Could be one of those ultra violet light markers

Never thought of that. Not sure I want to know enough to buy an ultraviolet lamp!!

Dealers will have to add that to to their description " #####marks in the run out and correct UV mark on label". 

[Mithras]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?item=305864488747&rt=nc&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l170197&_ssn=roryro2313

a few more similar tittles....

[Chalky]

41 minutes ago, Mithras said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?item=305864488747&rt=nc&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l170197&_ssn=roryro2313

a few more similar tittles....

Same seller 4 Milton Bennetts, 4 Magicians, couple or so Paramount Four?  Strange as none of those titles ever appeared with any regularity, just what seemed like genuine owners off loading their copies as I did. They were well before the over press scam came to light. Nothing ever suspicious about those titles previously. 
 

@Ady Croasdell

Edited Monday at 18:35 by Chalky

[Dylan]

1 hour ago, Mithras said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?item=305864488747&rt=nc&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l170197&_ssn=roryro2313

a few more similar tittles....

So the over press scam could have been going on longer than previously known about ? Or they have been pressed more recently ?

[Dean Rudland]

7 minutes ago, Dylan said:

So the over press scam could have been going on longer than previously known about ? Or they have been pressed more recently ?

It was one specific factory that was them dropped, but accidentally used for a more recent single and the same thing happened again. 

[Chalky]

4 minutes ago, Dean Rudland said:

It was one specific factory that was them dropped, but accidentally used for a more recent single and the same thing happened again. 

how far back did the scam go Dean?

[Mithras]

this has been going on for over a year same tittles come from around melton mobrey?

[Dean Rudland]

1 minute ago, Chalky said:

how far back did the scam go Dean?

As far as I remember it was only the two that Ady first mentioned and then the Classic Example mentioned above. 
Without looking on my shelf I can’t remember what those first two were, but pretty sure one was Sandra Richardson. 
Sorry I know that’s a bit vague

[Chalky]

4 minutes ago, Dean Rudland said:

As far as I remember it was only the two that Ady first mentioned and then the Classic Example mentioned above. 
Without looking on my shelf I can’t remember what those first two were, but pretty sure one was Sandra Richardson. 
Sorry I know that’s a bit vague

Certainly Sandra Richardson and the Nancy Wilcox. 

I wonder where this seller is getting all his copies?

[Dean Rudland]

10 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Certainly Sandra Richardson and the Nancy Wilcox. 

I wonder where this seller is getting all his copies?

It’s a good question, but these titles are older titles and never had multiple copies around before (and weren’t pressed at the dodgy plants). 
The seller has only 14 feedback, so I wonder if this is just a collector selling up, one who perhaps went to the 100 Club in a group of people and ended up with multiple copies. 
 

[Tobytyke]

11 hours ago, Dean Rudland said:

It’s a good question, but these titles are older titles and never had multiple copies around before (and weren’t pressed at the dodgy plants). 
The seller has only 14 feedback, so I wonder if this is just a collector selling up, one who perhaps went to the 100 Club in a group of people and ended up with multiple copies. 
 

Possible I suppose......sold 16 in the last 6 months and they are all anniversary singles.  Has 6 for sale at the moment. Makes you wonder how many more he could have.

Edited yesterday at 07:08 by Tobytyke
Addition

[Mithras]

 This is Feedback of one seller on ebay  all same tittles and has sold more than the feedback shows  this is detailed by the sales history and its only kent 45's also he is not the only seller and same tittles crop up this has been going on for over a year with different sellers and does not take in account discogs sales....looks quite odd 4 MAGICIANS?? these keep cropping up on ebay

1.Northern Soul, R&B, THE DIPLOMATS / DEBRA JOHNSON,I REALLY LOVE,Kent Anniversary (#305538073432)  £125.00

2.Northern Soul, R&B, Milton Bennett/ The Hesitations,What's One, Kent Anniversary (#305780063488) £160.00

3.Northern Soul, R&B, THE MAGICIANS / WEE WILLIE WALKER, FAITH , Kent Anniversary (#305761623709) £125.00

4.Northern Soul, R&B, MILL EVANS / THE MILLIONAIRES,AINT YOU GLAD,Kent Anniversary (#305720200488) £70.00

5.Northern Soul, R&B, JACKIE DAY / LARRY BANKS & JAIBI , Kent Anniversary (#305590630799) £60

6.Northern Soul, R&B, THE MAGICIANS / WEE WILLIE WALKER, FAITH , Kent Anniversary (#305720198830)£145.00

7.Northern Soul, R&B, Milton Bennett/ The Hesitations,What's One, Kent Anniversary (#305538060714) £140.00

8.Northern Soul, R&B, THE MAGICIANS / WEE WILLIE WALKER, FAITH , Kent Anniversary (#305538082000) £130.00

9.Northern Soul, R&B, The Hytones / George Jackson, Good News, Kent Anniversary (#305720198126) £120.00

10.Northern Soul, R&B, Milton Bennett/ The Hesitations,What's One, Kent Anniversary (#305742522983)£140.00

11.Northern Soul, R&B, THE MAGICIANS / WEE WILLIE WALKER, FAITH , Kent Anniversary (#305557060636) £125.00

12.Northern Soul, R&B, The Hytones / George Jackson, Good News, Kent Anniversary (#305538012485)£125.00

13.Northern Soul, R&B MILTON BENNETT / The HESITATIONS , Kent Anniversary (#305590638723) £175.00

 14. R&B, Paramount Four / Gene & Gary, Sorry Ain't, Kent Anniversary (#305538045769) £150.00

15. Northern Soul, R&B, JACKIE DAY / LARRY BANKS, GET TO STEPPIN ,Kent Anniversary (#305538076692) £60.00

16. Northern Soul, R&B, MILL EVANS / THE MILLIONAIRES,AINT YOU GLAD,Kent Anniversary (#305538068527) £75.00

 

 

[Chalky]

14 hours ago, Dean Rudland said:

It’s a good question, but these titles are older titles and never had multiple copies around before (and weren’t pressed at the dodgy plants). 
The seller has only 14 feedback, so I wonder if this is just a collector selling up, one who perhaps went to the 100 Club in a group of people and ended up with multiple copies. 
 

If that company still has the stampers/masters then there is nothing to stop them pressing more.

something doesn’t look right with what is going on. 

[Alan T]

If the pressing plant that was dropped still retains the hardware, Father / Mother plates and stampers then they could press what they want when they want. Just 100 records would yield 10K-20K at todays prices.

 

Edit: Same thoughts at the same time as above post by Chalky

Edited yesterday at 10:59 by Alan T

[Ady Croasdell]

All very dodgy. These are titles that weren't over-pressed at the time but looks like they may have re-pressed. If anyone has one from them, maybe send me one to compare? Or compare with one you know are genuine 

I'll list the ones I know were over pressed later but Milton Bennet, Hytones, Magicians weren't 

[Mithras]

This is not a collector, 5 sold Magicians 45's sold on feedback evidence and one on ebay at the moment, also says  from Melton Mobrey same  as a similar  seller  who was listing same tittles a couple of years ago got a magicians of them for around £70 at the time. If I get time ill research all similar sold items on ebay and discogs definite  something going on here.....However they all look ok...