Brice Coefield Issue, ever booted?

[Kilo]

Has Brice Coefield - Ain't That Right ever been booted on Omen Issue? Do all copies have a Monarch Delta number?

[Solidsoul]

2 hours ago, Kilo said:

Has Brice Coefield - Ain't That Right ever been booted on Omen Issue? Do all copies have a Monarch Delta number?

I don't think it has been booted as an issue. There may be some carver type things knocking about, with a photocopy label stuck on.

I wouldn't buy it without a Monarch delta number and details in the runout. All original copies I have seen, have them.

Edited September 26 by Solidsoul

[Steviehay]

not on an  issue and copying from styrene to vinyl would be not hard to see all stamped too 

 

[Zanetti]

One UR on Discogs. Release Date 2019.

[Kilo]

I've seen the 2019 UR on Discogs and my copy isn't like that, the runout is a lot wider than mine. My copy is Styrene with a printed label, there is a difference on the label to the picture shown on the 1966 Discogs entry, on the right hand side, the printing is:

10

Irving Music

(BMI)

Time 2:20

(OM419)

Also the printing partly covers the hand instead of being underneath it so I can't see this being a photocopy label. The runout has scratched OM 419 1B.

[Tlscapital]

29 minutes ago, Kilo said:

I've seen the 2019 UR on Discogs and my copy isn't like that, the runout is a lot wider than mine. My copy is Styrene with a printed label, there is a difference on the label to the picture shown on the 1966 Discogs entry, on the right hand side, the printing is:

10

Irving Music

(BMI)

Time 2:20

(OM419)

Also the printing partly covers the hand instead of being underneath it so I can't see this being a photocopy label. The runout has scratched OM 419 1B.

Simple. Copy the promo label. Erase the PROMOTIONAL COPY NOT FOR SALE and paste it on a virgin green stock label (photoshop) and you have those informations covering the 'right' hand unlike the OG styrene stocker.

 

[Kilo]

You would also have to edit the (419) to (OM419). However, it looks like I've been shafted again

[Bo Diddley]

3 hours ago, Kilo said:

I've seen the 2019 UR on Discogs and my copy isn't like that, the runout is a lot wider than mine. My copy is Styrene with a printed label, there is a difference on the label to the picture shown on the 1966 Discogs entry, on the right hand side, the printing is:

10

Irving Music

(BMI)

Time 2:20

(OM419)

Also the printing partly covers the hand instead of being underneath it so I can't see this being a photocopy label. The runout has scratched OM 419 1B.

I think you might be OK.

I've checked discogs and Youtube.

Please have a look at the Youtube video posted by John Manship in August 2024. There's a still picture at 2mins 09 secs.

The label layout looks like yours with printing over the picture of the Green Hand.

If you're still concerned, give John a call. He's very helpful and has time for a chat.

Good luck.

Kev Bod

 

[Woodbutcher]

1 hour ago, Bo Diddley said:

I think you might be OK.

I've checked discogs and Youtube.

Please have a look at the Youtube video posted by John Manship in August 2024. There's a still picture at 2mins 09 secs.

The label layout looks like yours with printing over the picture of the Green Hand.

If you're still concerned, give John a call. He's very helpful and has time for a chat.

Good luck.

Kev Bod

 

No mention of a difference in his 'bible' just an entry for the mythical A&M release , maybe it's one that's slipped the net regarding different pressing plants or East/West variations ?

Please let us know if he does come up with any info on it , or maybe he'll see the thread and jump straight in and save a phonecall.  @Theresa

[Whiskyagogo]

On 26/09/2024 at 20:35, Kilo said:

Has Brice Coefield - Ain't That Right ever been booted on Omen Issue? Do all copies have a Monarch Delta number?

If my memory serves me right? I pretty sure it has been.

Sorry, got no info.

[Woodbutcher]

Well according to John's description under the video there is nothing to suggest that it's anything but genuine so I'd have to be in the different plant/label camp rather than it being an incredibly well made counterfeit.

Nobody would go to the lengths to make such an effort to copy the 45 and make such a glaring error on the label.

[Bo Diddley]

15 hours ago, Woodbutcher said:

No mention of a difference in his 'bible' just an entry for the mythical A&M release , maybe it's one that's slipped the net regarding different pressing plants or East/West variations ?

Please let us know if he does come up with any info on it , or maybe he'll see the thread and jump straight in and save a phonecall.  @Theresa

I think as time goes by there are lots of variations and anomalies that come to light. Personally, I wouldn't have noticed many of them and Brice C in particular, without this thread.

I'm still amazed at that James/Jimmy McFarland thing that cropped up on here recently (although that wasn't a subtle difference!!) 

Edited September 28 by Bo Diddley

[Chalky]

What is the delta number in the run out on your copy

should be 

Deadwax, Monarch
A) RE 419 S (MR) ∆59898
B) 420 (MR) ∆59898-X

Edited September 28 by Chalky

[Woodbutcher]

3 hours ago, Chalky said:

What is the delta number in the run out on your copy

should be 

Deadwax, Monarch
A) RE 419 S (MR) ∆59898
B) 420 (MR) ∆59898-X

He said earlier "The runout has scratched OM 419 1B."

That's what lead me to surmise a different pressing plant to Monarch possibly.

[Tlscapital]

32 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

He said earlier "The runout has scratched OM 419 1B."

That's what lead me to surmise a different pressing plant to Monarch possibly.

Now I picture the whole thing a bit better. It seems indeed legit all around but from another pressing plant or another pressing machine. Weren't there some pressings at some times from Monarch that didn't receive all the markings ?

Somehow I have a vague memory of such a tale. But could be mixing things up as my brain does lately...

The JM one on YT also do have a 'drill cut' in the label. Could it be a later 'rush re-release' batch that didn't actually sell... Although similar the label fonts are of another caliber and arrangements even if very similar to the 'normal' one.

Popsike show 2 of these (out of 150 or about most promos though) OM419 pressing both with drill holes !

Edited September 28 by Tlscapital

[Woodbutcher]

5 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

 Weren't there some pressings at some times from Monarch that didn't receive all the markings ?

Somehow I have a vague memory of such a tale. But could be mixing things up as my brain does lately...

There was a recent discussion about just this , can't remember what the 45 in question was though ... 

[Dylan]

16 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

There was a recent discussion about just this , can't remember what the 45 in question was though ... 

there was the Eddie Parker ARCHER stamped and not stamped discussion with a lot of in depth comments

[Woodbutcher]

2 minutes ago, Dylan said:

there was the Eddie Parker ARCHER stamped and not stamped discussion with a lot of in depth comments

That was the one , let's hope this one doesn't do as many laps going round and round in circles as that one did ... 

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Woodbutcher said:

He said earlier "The runout has scratched OM 419 1B."

That's what lead me to surmise a different pressing plant to Monarch possibly.

Missed it.  Only ever seen Delta stamped copies. 

[Tlscapital]

14 minutes ago, Dylan said:

there was the Eddie Parker ARCHER stamped and not stamped discussion with a lot of in depth comments

No I'm really thinking about Monarch's pressings and pressing machines... 

[Woodbutcher]

I just did a site search for "Monarch pressings" and read the various threads it supplied.

As the "A" side is "Ain't it right" could the scratched run-out mark  OM 419 1B possibly denote that it was a Bestway product ? , another styrene moulding plant which would cover both the 'different plant' and 'east/west' options.

 

Edited September 28 by Woodbutcher

[Blackpoolsoul]

51 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

I just did a site search for "Monarch pressings" and read the various threads it supplied.

As the "A" side is "Ain't it right" could the scratched run-out mark  OM 419 1B possibly denote that it was a Bestway product ? , another styrene moulding plant which would cover both the 'different plant' and 'east/west' options.

 

I would expect more than just the OM 419 if it is Bestway

[Kilo]

I have emailed John Manship to ask if the copy he had on You Tube was a Monarch press or had OM 419 1B in the run out. If he replies I will copy the response on this forum. Thanks for all your valued input it leads me to conclude that the authenticity of my copy depends on what is on the run out. It’s what’s at the end of the grooves that counts

[Woodbutcher]

36 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I would expect more than just the OM 419 if it is Bestway

Hence why I stated it's OM 419 1B as it's on the 'A' side , Bestway pressings were marked in various ways including a single B. (Bestway , Best , BW , B)

Edited September 28 by Woodbutcher

[Woodbutcher]

6 minutes ago, Kilo said:

I have emailed John Manship to ask if the copy he had on You Tube was a Monarch press or had OM 419 1B in the run out. If he replies I will copy the response on this forum. Thanks for all your valued input it leads me to conclude that the authenticity of my copy depends on what is on the run out. It’s what’s at the end of the grooves that counts

Can you have a good look and see if there are any more marks in the run-out , and let us know what's in the run-out on the flip side , by my guesswork it could read OM 419 2B.

[Kilo]

There are no other marks in the run out. The other side has OM 420 1B. It’s possible the 1B is IB or even /B

 

Edited September 28 by Kilo

[Woodbutcher]

13 minutes ago, Kilo said:

There are no other marks in the run out. The other side has OM 420 1B. It’s possible the 1B is IB

 

I've only just noticed the sides are 419 and 420 on the other copies too , so the 'B' could still denote Bestway on the east coast.

[Kilo]

It’s also possible it could be /B. Difficult to tell with a scratched line

[Chalky]

3 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

No I'm really thinking about Monarch's pressings and pressing machines... 

I can't think of a monarch press without the delta number tbh, not saying there isn't any

[Kilo]

Just to update anyone interested in this thread, I’ve sent John Manship a couple of messages asking for run out matrix information on the copy shown on the August 2024 You Tube video. So far I’ve not had any reply. Maybe whoever bought that copy from JM could confirm the run out matrix.

Here’s hoping 

[Woodbutcher]

1 hour ago, Kilo said:

Just to update anyone interested in this thread, I’ve sent John Manship a couple of messages asking for run out matrix information on the copy shown on the August 2024 You Tube video. So far I’ve not had any reply. Maybe whoever bought that copy from JM could confirm the run out matrix.

Here’s hoping 

While you're asking him questions please ask him what's happened to his YT channel , it seems to have disappeared along with all his videos ... ?

[Kilo]

I had a response from JM:

"We do not have this 45 anymore so I can't check, it is A&M distributed so there will be other variations across the country"

I've noticed that Discogs now includes this label variation (I'm sure this wasn't there before). I think the information was added a few days ago by kwlstuf. 

I didn't see Woodbutchers last post asking for info on what's happened to JM's YT channel so I can't comment. 

Regarding the original topic, I am now convinced my copy is an authentic 1966 east coast stock issue, Thanks to all for your contributions.

Regards Kilo

[Steve Foran]

On 03/10/2024 at 22:48, Woodbutcher said:

While you're asking him questions please ask him what's happened to his YT channel , it seems to have disappeared along with all his videos ... ?

I saw something the other day concerning YT. His page was taken down due to copyright issues. According to the post I saw!!

[George G]

I had a copy of the record that looked like the one that Kilo posted on Sept 27th. I sold it on for what I paid for it as I was not sure it was legit at the time. Maybe 15 years ago. I also have a M- delta pressing stock copy original. I recall the sound on the delta press was louder and had more punch/dynamic range. The runout on the delta press was smaller so the original masters were different.