busy/not busy dancefloors?

[Phil J]

I wrote a poem about a decade ago taking the **** out of Wedding D.J.'s who don't check out the dancefloor to see what's happening and kind of make the wrong choices which invariably empties the floor. I got to thinking, "Actually, this poem applies to some Northern Soul D.J.'s too".  How many times do we see a busy, buzzing dancefloor (50+ punters) only for the next D.J. to display a special set of skills in emptying the floor due to a ridiculous change in temp, change in style or simply that he wants to indulge his own (niche) tastes. We then see maybe two dancers for his slot and isn't dance supposed to be the main activity on the scene? Niche stuff is fine - obviously -  at a rare/underplayed night but surely not at a mainstream N.S. event? What do people think?

[Woodbutcher]

He's probably just played twenty tunes that ain't in the "Top 500" that the "mainstream" crowd have never heard.

Don't forget the important point that everyone misses , the norvern soul' scene died and disappeared in 1981 with the close of some bingo hall oop north and remained lost until some enterprising yoof in Bristol resuscitated it and restarted the whole thing some 40-odd years later.

Edited September 19 by Woodbutcher

[Soul16]

2 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

He's probably just played twenty tunes that ain't in the "Top 500" that the "mainstream" crowd have never heard.

Don't forget the important point that everyone misses , the norvern soul' scene died and disappeared in 1981 with the close of some bingo hall oop north and remained lost until some enterprising yoof in Bristol resuscitated it and restarted the whole thing some 40-odd years later.

 

[Phil J]

In addition to this debate, can’t understand how DJ’s don’t actually notice that they’ve emptied the floor!! Poor eyesight? I’d say (and it’s not a scientifically proven claim) that 90% of punters - particularly if you’ve been to work etc - just want to shake a leg/have a boogie of a Fri/Sat night and remember what it was like back in the 70’s! Perhaps those wanting to educate us with these fabulous (?) new discoveries could do it in the comfort of their homes OR get it out of their systems for the FIRST hour of an event (while ppl still arriving, greeting old mates, getting drinks in etc) or play them during the LAST hour when we’ve run out of steam and can no longer dance. Stop emptying a busy dance floor! (Unless you enjoy ruining punters’ nights out!) 

[Woodbutcher]

I rest my case ... 

Time for you to join the ranks of the NSVHPA and start your own fantastic Derby and Joan night.

 

 

(Northern Soul Village Hall Promoters Association)

[Dr Ray Dj]

I think it's a balance, danceable tunes people know and know how to dance good too plus less well known tunes. As well as dancing one of the valuable things from nights is coming away with an unknown but incredibly catch tune in your head and thinking I must find out what that is. My main thing is that dancing is less well documented that the music and I think there's a risk of losing this crucial part of the scene to history.

[Phil J]

I think atmosphere crucial to the scene being sustainable and empty dance floors just lead to apathy and a feeling of ‘won’t be coming here again’ IMO I think rare/underplsyed/underground stuff should have their unique separate nights or a designated spot during a mainstream night but no more than that - as you say balance is a key issue but when you’ve had an empty dance floor for an hour because some guy has decided that 60’s R + B needs to be shared then everyone is onto a loser. It takes all types I suppose but I’ll say it again - without the dancing there wouldn’t  be a scene and that is what pulls 90% of punters in. As for the rare stuff, I know a group of DJ’s past & present who meet once a month in a pub (midweek) to spin rare sounds, now that’s what you call an excellent compromise  

[Dr Ray Dj]

10 minutes ago, Phil J said:

I think atmosphere crucial to the scene being sustainable and empty dance floors just lead to apathy and a feeling of ‘won’t be coming here again’ IMO I think rare/underplsyed/underground stuff should have their unique separate nights or a designated spot during a mainstream night but no more than that - as you say balance is a key issue but when you’ve had an empty dance floor for an hour because some guy has decided that 60’s R + B needs to be shared then everyone is onto a loser. It takes all types I suppose but I’ll say it again - without the dancing there wouldn’t  be a scene and that is what pulls 90% of punters in. As for the rare stuff, I know a group of DJ’s past & present who meet once a month in a pub (midweek) to spin rare sounds, now that’s what you call an excellent compromise  

Another problem is the lack of younger dancers and how we get a good mix of old and young to keep a/the scene going even if it evolves into something different/new

[Mike]

2 hours ago, Phil J said:

In addition to this debate, can’t understand how DJ’s don’t actually notice that they’ve emptied the floor!! Poor eyesight? I’d say (and it’s not a scientifically proven claim) that 90% of punters - particularly if you’ve been to work etc - just want to shake a leg/have a boogie of a Fri/Sat night and remember what it was like back in the 70’s! Perhaps those wanting to educate us with these fabulous (?) new discoveries could do it in the comfort of their homes OR get it out of their systems for the FIRST hour of an event (while ppl still arriving, greeting old mates, getting drinks in etc) or play them during the LAST hour when we’ve run out of steam and can no longer dance. Stop emptying a busy dance floor! (Unless you enjoy ruining punters’ nights out!) 

just what we need in 2024, a new member telling us all how to do things

if you and any one else wants to "shake a leg/have a boogie of a Fri/Sat night and remember what it was like back in the 70’s!"

then simply find a event that does that, there's many about, no real need to sign up here and then proceed to tell us all where you think everyone is going wrong

 

and what's all this about writing wedding dj poems? are/were you one?

 

[Phil J]

On 19/09/2024 at 09:28, Woodbutcher said:

I rest my case ... 

Time for you to join the ranks of the NSVHPA and start your own fantastic Derby and Joan night.

 

 

(Northern Soul Village Hall Promoters Association)

Nowt wrong with a bit of Derby & Joan, bingo, cabaret act, sandwiches, affordable drinks - come on, what’s not to like! I first went to Wigan Casino Nov. 1974 age 15 so have been ‘round the block’ a few times (Mecca, Ritz, Keele etc) My theory is based on 50 years of observations that to keep the scene flourishing you have to keep the punters dancing and weird choices from the DJ = empty dance floors = bored punters = “we ain’t coming here again” UNLESS it’s a designated rare night (such as the one in Congleton Cheshire or the 6T’s nights at the 100 Club London) where ppl know exactly what they’re getting? I think a FEW rare tracks at a mainstream night is fine but dunna go giving us 90 minutes of that stuff cuz our arses will be numb from sitting looking at an empty floor. Perhaps certain DJ’s could have an eye test at specsavers the day before so they can actually spot what an empty dance floor looks like although obviously most DJ’s are supremely skilled at keeping dancers happy. It’s like the Oasis gigs next year (I’m not going before you ask!) 90% of fans will be going for wonderwall, live forever, champagne supernova etc etc whereas 10% officianado’s will appreciate a few of the lesser known (obscure?) song and it would be the same in any music genre. I think I’ve clarified and crystallised my main points now, if you still can’t understand then it’s fine. 

[Timbo58]

Personally I've always felt that if a DJ clears the floor that's perfectly OK initially, but to keep it clear record after record for an entire set is almost certainly the promotors fault in booking a completely unsuitable guest (or resident!).

I'm not a fan of 'the dancefloor dictates' or 'look at us -we've sold all the tickets!' type events as the vast majority are simply catering to the least fussy audience. That's perfectly fine if your idea of 'success' is measured in £££s of course.

As for advertising events truthfully & clearly -I'm absolutely in favour of that, but all too often the ones that promise they're 'keeping the faith' wouldn't know what 'the faith' was even if it came with a colouring in set & crayons.

 

Edited September 22 by Timbo58

[Phil J]

Makes perfect sense Timbo - nowt wrong with a bit of variety/newly unearthed tracks etc as long as it doesn’t go on for an hour plus!! I thought I knew all of Bobby Womack’s back catalogue until one day in a small Stockport WMC alldayer a guy played a retro track I’d never heard, obvs I danced to it + downloaded it so I do see the beauty in hearing a few rare gems but I think the main point I’m making is that the punters/the 90%/ the humble ‘us’ should be considered by the 10% elite who run the scene (DJ’s/promoters/collectors) when making track choices? 

[Kenb]

32 minutes ago, Phil J said:

Makes perfect sense Timbo - nowt wrong with a bit of variety/newly unearthed tracks etc as long as it doesn’t go on for an hour plus!! I thought I knew all of Bobby Womack’s back catalogue until one day in a small Stockport WMC alldayer a guy played a retro track I’d never heard, obvs I danced to it + downloaded it so I do see the beauty in hearing a few rare gems but I think the main point I’m making is that the punters/the 90%/ the humble ‘us’ should be considered by the 10% elite who run the scene (DJ’s/promoters/collectors) when making track choices? 

Phil, your opinion is as valid as anyone's...but i must figure as the 10% who like to hear 'as you say' rare, unearthed , niche. It's never stopped me dancing...(even if the floor cleared). It gives me time to dance, and everyone else to carry on gabbing (ooh did i say that outloud)

Edited September 22 by Kenb
clarity

[Phil J]

Thanks for your input Kenb, I like your line that everyone’s opinion is valid ….. spot on! 

[Timillustrator]

There are literally hundreds of mainstream social club events out there, with constantly busy dancefloors playing the top 500 plus a bit of disco, pop etc. good for them but not something of interest to the vast majority of people on here or generally people under 30. True, some of the specifically "underplayed" nights have little atmosphere either. 

Personally I like a mix of the two 50% mainstream, 50% I've never heard of, mix it up and keep everyone happy, sadly that rarely occurs.

There are a few events though with busy dancefloors, a total mix of ages and little in the way of the top 500. And they are a real treasure.

[Timillustrator]

17 hours ago, Timbo58 said:

Personally I've always felt that if a DJ clears the floor that's perfectly OK initially, but to keep it clear record after record for an entire set is almost certainly the promotors fault in booking a completely unsuitable guest (or resident!).

I'm not a fan of 'the dancefloor dictates' or 'look at us -we've sold all the tickets!' type events as the vast majority are simply catering to the least fussy audience. That's perfectly fine if your idea of 'success' is measured in £££s of course.

As for advertising events truthfully & clearly -I'm absolutely in favour of that, but all too often the ones that promise they're 'keeping the faith' wouldn't know what 'the faith' was even if it came with a colouring in set & crayons.

 

A few years ago I went to a fairly well known all-nighter and the opposite occurred. Around 1am a DJ came on and played the most mainstream top 500 set ever - Julian Covey, House For Sale, Benny Troy, possibly even Billy Ocean and it totally cleared the floor, hilarious. Totally the case of booking the wrong DJ.

[George Hughes]

Couple of empty floor situations . Went  to Twisted Wheel last year , due to the awful weather ,Snow etc , I was flying solo . Pete Roberts was on and played Barefootin' and I thought I haven't heard Let's Go Baby Where The Action Is for along time . He played it for me and it cleared the floor . he was very gracious about it .

Also a local event Tallulah's in New Brighton  . last friday of the month with Norman Killen and Jimmy Houghton is always busy . Yet when Jimmy plays Friday Night - Johnnie Taylor for me it clears the floor ?

[Shinehead]

35 minutes ago, George Hughes said:

 I thought I haven't heard Let's Go Baby Where The Action Is for along time . He played it for me and it cleared the floor . he was very gracious about it .

 Yet when Jimmy plays Friday Night - Johnnie Taylor for me it clears the floor ?

Good job you are not a dj then, with your requests clearing the dance floor (only joking)

[Timillustrator]

1 hour ago, George Hughes said:

Couple of empty floor situations . Went  to Twisted Wheel last year , due to the awful weather ,Snow etc , I was flying solo . Pete Roberts was on and played Barefootin' and I thought I haven't heard Let's Go Baby Where The Action Is for along time . He played it for me and it cleared the floor . he was very gracious about it .

Also a local event Tallulah's in New Brighton  . last friday of the month with Norman Killen and Jimmy Houghton is always busy . Yet when Jimmy plays Friday Night - Johnnie Taylor for me it clears the floor ?

Blimey, Friday Night is quite regularly played in the Midlands and always a floor filler. 

[George Hughes]

No accounting for taste .

[Ian Parker]

if its any consolation...   i played (at a very well known oldies event)  Such misery - the precisions.   yup, tumbleweed !

    happens to everyone,  at some point.   

  any 'DJ' with an ounce of sense,  should be able to judge a dancefloor, so out came:   'if this is love'    that sorted it  

[Tlscapital]

Agreeing on 'careless' dee-jays playing regardless of the public's reaction. But not on dancer's wanting their own sounds in order to dance to. Unless such is the 'club' policy. Still dancers should be adventurous just as dee-jays should. Secure sounds for safe dances is not a requirement. 

Obviously 'Mainstream' Northern Soul Nights are referring to Mainstream Northern Soul punters dancing to Mainstream Northern Soul sounds or to their Mainstream Northern Soul Dee-Jay's Mainstream. If so the dance floor should never be empty if all is going Mainstream according to plans.

Now outside the Mainstream realm or conjuncture as said evidently there are many predictable variables at stakes for any nighter's promoters such as the dee-jays line-up with the opening and closing hour being the least 'heated' ones and best not to be confused by the dee-jay's selection as pointed out.

But in reality what can be a 'HOT DEE-JAY SPOT' in one club can just as well be a 'FLOP' in another one. So unless all what a Dee-Jay will play will be regarded as 'gold' by a floor rammed with fans where all other dee-jays will have to struggle some to get a non-acquired dance crowd to its spot selection in construction.

Agreeing that any dee-jay spot should be a construction weither the dee-jay has the dance floor or is still struggling to get it. In real I've seen big names playing all their rare records to an empty dance floors reaction and have also heard other loud mouth bragging to have played to thousands but never in empty rooms where I was...

So on real accounts not all is always glamorous. Even more so for the 'over proud' ones. Witnessing other dee-jays playing a certain tune to an empty dance floor then a big name dee-jay playing the same tune an hour later to ram the same dance floor. Against 'dee-jays' devotees no one can fight. Swifties will be Swifties and remain Swifties.

The Northern Soul "scenery" always had them and always will. Hence the diversity of nighters, Dee-Jays and punters all around. Diversity is fine and should be open to criticism without unnecessary needed hostility. Back then if a Nighter proved not worthwhile people just called it off. Other events held on and got their share of success later...

Like those on here who said it before witnessing an empty dance floor is just part of the night life. Even more so on what constitutes this anti-elitists underground scene that is yet very demanding on 'authenticity' such as sounds (pace and sonority), source (format and origin) and history (who's who) to enjoy them sounds with the respect.

Too much involvement for your 'Mainstream' night life goers evidently but all that attracted those who fell in love with the music but still wanted more from this underground 'scene'. And like in all underground scenes its followers are devoted to consent to it but are none the less all so expandable and so not all events achieve all that they promise...

From my humble clubbing experience to be assured to have a packed rammed floor at 'SPOT LIGHT' hours at a club with a known musical policy and reputed 'resident' dee-jays running Nighters on a regular basis that has regular punters and enough 'sex appeal' to attract occasional ones will be less incline to such mishaps but still not immune.

Those are only few and about. The others might be more your friends or the local one that one'd wish to defend regardless of any of it's weaknesses. Occasional dee-jay I've had it all. Empty dance floors, packed ones and what have you ones I've emptied and the ones I've packed after big names playing on empty ones. If once a trick is never ever one at all times.

Edited September 23 by Tlscapital

[Jessie Pinkman]

On 20/09/2024 at 11:07, Phil J said:

Nowt wrong with a bit of Derby & Joan, bingo, cabaret act, sandwiches, affordable drinks - come on, what’s not to like! I first went to Wigan Casino Nov. 1974 age 15 so have been ‘round the block’ a few times (Mecca, Ritz, Keele etc) My theory is based on 50 years of observations that to keep the scene flourishing you have to keep the punters dancing and weird choices from the DJ = empty dance floors = bored punters = “we ain’t coming here again” UNLESS it’s a designated rare night (such as the one in Congleton Cheshire or the 6T’s nights at the 100 Club London) where ppl know exactly what they’re getting? I think a FEW rare tracks at a mainstream night is fine but dunna go giving us 90 minutes of that stuff cuz our arses will be numb from sitting looking at an empty floor. Perhaps certain DJ’s could have an eye test at specsavers the day before so they can actually spot what an empty dance floor looks like although obviously most DJ’s are supremely skilled at keeping dancers happy. It’s like the Oasis gigs next year (I’m not going before you ask!) 90% of fans will be going for wonderwall, live forever, champagne supernova etc etc whereas 10% officianado’s will appreciate a few of the lesser known (obscure?) song and it would be the same in any music genre. I think I’ve clarified and crystallised my main points now, if you still can’t understand then it’s fine. 

You're comparing Northern Soul gigs that are on every week,52 weeks a year to an Oasis gig that the fans have been waiting for 15 years, so of course they want Wonderwall etc.

[Phil J]

Tiscapital certainly writes eloquently and passionately - thanks for your input. As some have intimated, it’s not always possible to put your finger on why big hit tracks and DJ’s sometimes clear the floor and lesser-known tracks and DJ’s sometimes fill the floor but more often than not the opposite is usually the case. It can be a bit like a sports team play like legends one week and like amateurs the next, there’s no rhyme or reason. I think groups like the Bristol Soul Club are important in that here we have a group of youngsters who are determined to help us remember what it was like to be a wide-eyed optimistic (innocent?) teenager back in the 70’s. In my opinion it’s to be celebrated. My cousin’s rock band in London occasionally get fans turning up from far and wide having discovered the band’s online presence, it would be unfair of the band to say, “Look at these Johnny-come-latelies, they weren’t with us back in the day when we formed” - no, because those punters weren’t even born then ….duh! I think there’s some who feel they understand NS on a deeper level than most of us, they’ve discovered it’s hidden secrets and messages, there’s a special elixir only a few have access to - maybe there’s a social anthropology or political science angle that most of us don’t get? I’ll say it again, for most of us it’s a case of (a) listening to familiar stuff that takes us back to being a naive 15 yr old telling your parents you’re staying at your mate’s house then catching the train to Wigan (b) having a dance - while we’re still able to (just) and (c) if you spot one or two familiar faces it’s a bonus. I’ve enjoyed reading probably ten books on NS, most are very good and authentic - it’s good that some have documented this special piece of idiosyncratic working-class culture and it’s good that some pioneers went to the States seeking out forgotten tracks lying in flea markets and record company warehouses, this all helped to grow and expand the scene of course. As for the rest of us, we’re punters, the foot soldiers who just keep the scene alive by turning up and paying our fiver on the door or whatever in the hope that we too might be included. I’ll let myself out ….. “taxi”!! 

[Eddie Hubbard]

On 19/09/2024 at 08:02, Woodbutcher said:

He's probably just played twenty tunes that ain't in the "Top 500" that the "mainstream" crowd have never heard.

Don't forget the important point that everyone misses , the norvern soul' scene died and disappeared in 1981 with the close of some bingo hall oop north and remained lost until some enterprising yoof in Bristol resuscitated it and restarted the whole thing some 40-odd years later.

Unless you’re joking ,you’ve just managed to airbrush out the last 40 years of the scene ,Stafford ,100 Club ,Cleethorpes Weekenders and plenty more ….

[Woodbutcher]

2 minutes ago, Eddie Hubbard said:

Unless you’re joking ,you’ve just managed to airbrush out the last 40 years of the scene ,Stafford ,100 Club ,Cleethorpes Weekenders and plenty more ….

Well seeing as my journey on the so-called scene started after said bingo hall closed , at the Oddfellows and TOTW , and I've spent the majority of it in a dingy red basement I'll let you decide ...  

[Greedy]

10 hours ago, Woodbutcher said:

Well seeing as my journey on the so-called scene started after said bingo hall closed , at the Oddfellows and TOTW , and I've spent the majority of it in a dingy red basement I'll let you decide ...  

Totally agree.  I went wigan a few times and the only time it was busy was the oldies niters.  After it closed a lot of people stopped going and a new crowd appeared and we had oddfellows, Stafford, Clifton hall,  100 club ,winter gardens,  Leighton buzzard, hinckley,  Blackburn to name a few.  This is when we had djs playing so much awesome music from underplayed oldies to modern, crossover, Latin soul, beat ballads and of course the rare ones.  We were spoilt. And now everyone wants to ram the Wigan oldies down our throats.  There's more than the 70s to this scene, it  has evolved so much since then . If you want oldies fine but leave the rest of us to enjoy the scene as it is.  

 

[Greedy]

On 18/09/2024 at 20:01, Phil J said:

I wrote a poem about a decade ago taking the **** out of Wedding D.J.'s who don't check out the dancefloor to see what's happening and kind of make the wrong choices which invariably empties the floor. I got to thinking, "Actually, this poem applies to some Northern Soul D.J.'s too".  How many times do we see a busy, buzzing dancefloor (50+ punters) only for the next D.J. to display a special set of skills in emptying the floor due to a ridiculous change in temp, change in style or simply that he wants to indulge his own (niche) tastes. We then see maybe two dancers for his slot and isn't dance supposed to be the main activity on the scene? Niche stuff is fine - obviously -  at a rare/underplayed night but surely not at a mainstream N.S. event? What do people think?

Well if you want to go to a wedding every weekend and hear red red wine, come on Eileen and Billy Ocean and a bit of ABBA that's fine by me.  But don't push the same old same old oldies down my throat.. as after wigan I carried on with this scene and heard the best music played.  If you want oldies put an oldies cd on repeat if it keeps you happy.  Sorry but since the casino closed the scene has evolved more than you can imagine. 

[Haighy]

There are nights to suit all tastes, just go to the right one to suit your taste. I don’t bother anymore as the nights round my area was/are, late middle aged beer gut, Spencer 40 incher wearing, talc, embarrassments. For me, night owl was cack 45yr ago, so why would I want to listen to it today. Mind you, there are tracks from 45yr ago, that still give me goosebumps. 

[Steviehay]

When i deejayed in a night club the owner told me to CLEAR the floor due to nobody buying drinks !!!!!!

[dave/colwyn bay]