What Is Modern Soul?

[Simon M]

NICE!!

Got the Beach thing down..

oh! and Shagging - I think we have a different term here for that here.

plus the Washington Go Go scene .. Chuck Brown some good stuff from there

[Simon M]

huh huh

Edited March 23, 2007 by Simon M

[Simon M]

huh huh

Edited March 23, 2007 by Simon M

[Guest]

plus the Washington Go Go scene .. Chuck Brown some good stuff from there

also E.U - Exprerience Unlimited

[Guest]

As Gavin Page once told me; side to side is Northern Soul and forwards & backwards is Modern Soul.

You work the beat/rhythm out and there you are, you have your style

Nice.. In the US -

Ravers - side to side

House Heads - forwards & backwards

[Simon M]

As Gavin Page once told me; side to side is Northern Soul and forwards & backwards is Modern Soul.

You work the beat/rhythm out and there you are, you have your style

I think he says that coz hes not a very good dancer

[Guest Dodger]

As Gavin Page once told me; side to side and forwards & backwards.

That's actually Gavin on his way out of the venue at the end of the night.

[Guest MattB]

Id quite like to hear more modern soul, i did think that some of it had an airy whitney houston vibe to it but after a recent gig when i heard Hip teens by the frank popp orchestra i thought id give it a bit of a chance, and i was pretty shocked when i found out that record came out in 2006.

[Souljazera]

i think that modern simply connects faster with the youth than northern..as its generally produced at a later date hence the term modern..although one can hardly call a record from 1979 modern.

i got into because i got bored of silly motowney sound a likes as a youth

the division for me doesnt really exist i love some northern/modern/disco/funk/house/garage...but not all of it in its entirety..

would be good if jason could share his fanzine article? as i think he follows a similar path

[Souljazera]

Ravers - side to side

House Heads - forwards & backwards

aka headnodding society

[Guest]

Ravers - side to side

House Heads - forwards & backwards

aka headnodding society

haha! sometimes..

[Guest]

would be good if jason could share his fanzine article? as i think he follows a similar path

that would be great. I would like to read the March issue as well. Haven't gotten that one yet..

I'll drop a pm and see what happends.

[Soul Shrews]

plus the Washington Go Go scene .. Chuck Brown some good stuff from there

Me and Mrs Shrew are always "Good To Go...(Say What !! )" Simon M

Cheers Paul

PS Is this the first (and probably last) mention of Go Go on Soul-Source?

[Soul Shrews]

Its no big deal really we just make it into one with all the labels ..soul music is like anything else in life to me , if its modern then its now / the present / up to date /new/ contemporary ..whatever term you want to call it if you insist on giving it labels , if its older then its retro and for descriptive purposes can be defined by its decade ..ie 70ts 80ts 90ts etc ...easy really or is that just feminine logic

Lin

Since when did logic come into it Lin?............ Feminine or othrewise

Cheers Paul

[Robin S]

Me and Mrs Shrew are always "Good To Go...(Say What !! )" Simon M

Cheers Paul

PS Is this the first (and probably last) mention of Go Go on Soul-Source?

Not if that Soulful Saint Stuart Cosgrove is around!

[Guest mel brat]

I would class that as an "oldies" night

Modern soul to me is about new music not music thats 30 to 40 years old ..how can that be "modern " ?

Lin

The term "Modern Soul" has a relevance and meaning beyond the interpretation of anyone who has recently come to the music in question, whether you like it or not! (Just as the term 'Northern Soul' had an original descriptive meaning that later changed and evolved, but without which we would have no anchor on which to redefine the term)

It's no use you all now attempting to re-write this definition to suit your own preconceptions and preferences, based on ignorance of the early "modern" scene and it's history. It just won't wash! At the time of it's inception, the new "Modern scene" that is, the scene that evolved directly from Soul Sam's split with Wigan 60's playlists, knew exactly what the term meant in relation to the playlists it adopted. Subsequent events and subtle additions to the playlists to include earlier recordings, and the additional input of Thorne etc. ADDED to the scene and defined it further.

Have any of you actually bothered to READ the Voices From The Shadows article I mentioned earlier that defines the term and how this particular music scene came about? - Or the many interviews with Soul Sam in the new magazines dedicated to "modern soul" venues that were springing up in the early 80's? No. I thought not! The term "Modern Soul" in this particular context has NEVER meant the same as either 'contemporary' recordings or 70's, 80's records. Read up or shut up!

Edited March 23, 2007 by mel brat

[Souljazera]

THORNE now that really was a quality venue....anyone remember sam dees singing to 200 people?

some truely top quality records played there out in the sticks....pioneering indeed

lifeline has taken the mantle and is running with it

[Soul Shrews]

Not if that Soulful Saint Stuart Cosgrove is around!

Yes,.......... where has the Soulful Saint been lately ?

[Guest]

No. I thought not! The term "Modern Soul" in this particular context has NEVER meant the same as either 'contemporary' recordings or 70's, 80's records. Read up or shut up!

I don't think the 'term' in the given context you speak of is in question.

[Guest Rich]

The other significant point I'm continually having to make is that venues such as Cleethorpes would not have been able to get away with playing ANY seventies modern soul recordings had Ian Levine at the Mecca not opened the doors to this possibility earlier! Whatever seventies records were played at Cleethorpes, it was essentially a NORTHERN SOUL allnighter, whereas the Mecca was becoming something else entirely.

Rubbish - it eventually became a Northern doo with the new stuff upstairs. In the early days I remember it being a right old hotpotch. Many often moaned that the funky stuff outweighed the 60s stuff. And as for us all being totally in debt to Chubbs, you're having a larf

Finally, in regard to providing the best fish n' chips, I reckon the Midlands wins hands down, so we'll have to agree to differ in that department as well!

The only decent Fish and Chips I've ever been able to get in 30odd years near soul doos have been up in the Market Place at Cleethorpes - Ernie Becketts, or at the top of the road from the Pier - Oceans

And as for Modern Soul, I haven't got a scoobies. It's a bit like Northern, folk have been dabbling with it for so long, it seems to cover so much ground. I do like the Soul Desirables compilation, David Sea's set from last year, and the new Adriana Evans LP - the gal's back on form

[Guest Dodger]

Plenty of modern soul here:

soulsorts.jellycast.com/podcast/feed/2

Blatant self-promotion but what the hell, it's just good soul music. In my opinion of course.

Mel Brat wrote this:

The term "Modern Soul" has a relevance and meaning beyond the interpretation of anyone who has recently come to the music in question, whether you like it or not!

Funniest and possibly the most pretentious line I've read on ths forum for a long time!!

[Guest soulgirlie]

The term "Modern Soul" has a relevance and meaning beyond the interpretation of anyone who has recently come to the music in question, whether you like it or not!

What do you mean by 'recently come to the music in question' exactly ?

Lin

[Barry]

What do you mean by 'recently come to the music in question' exactly ?

Lin

I don't think he's being obtuse - 'Modern Soul' was coined for the Northern Scene to describe a particular form of it and therefore a straight interpretation of the term, without prior knowledge of why it was coined doesn't hold water with people that were on the scene at that time.

I think.

[Simon M]

I don't think he's being obtuse - 'Modern Soul' was coined for the Northern Scene to describe a particular form of it and therefore a straight interpretation of the term, without prior knowledge of why it was coined doesn't hold water with people that were on the scene at that time.

I think.

Yes I agree Barry , also The term Modern Soul, was used to differentiate or maybe even alienate the Northern scene in the early 80's, hence all the name calling( of certain personalities) and derogatory comments about the music at that time from the traditionalists . We can now see it has become a rather useless description for new soul music, of that time and today. However I still class myself a Modern soulie

Edited March 24, 2007 by Simon M

[Simon M]

Yes,.......... where has the Soulful Saint been lately ?

I'd say hes thinking more about football , and searching for vinyl at the moment

[Geordiejohnson]

THORNE now that really was a quality venue....anyone remember sam dees singing to 200 people?

some truely top quality records played there out in the sticks....pioneering indeed

lifeline has taken the mantle and is running with it

Sam Dees at Thorne -Whoa I was there standing on a chair just by the pillar that was en-route to the toilets, Best night out for many years except for bobby Womack in leeds that was Superb not even 150 people in it was like having Bobby sing in your front room.

[Geordiejohnson]

Oh forgot to mention, isnt Modern, a 70's track that hasnt had too much exposure and when it does and the zimmer frames are twitching to the beat, if its got an uptempo beat, it is stolen and catipulted into the NORTHERN SOUL stable and played to death

ace spectrim, four below zero, etc etc......... yawn

Geeoooooordie

[Soul Shrews]

I'd say hes thinking more about football , and searching for vinyl at the moment

Aggro again was it?

Er the footsie I mean not the vinyl bit tho.................

Cheers Paul

[Souljazera]

Oh forgot to mention, isnt Modern, a 70's track that hasnt had too much exposure and when it does and the zimmer frames are twitching to the beat, if its got an uptempo beat, it is stolen and catipulted into the NORTHERN SOUL stable and played to death

NICE

i was the one holding rods straight jacket! and tims autograph book think he popped his cherry that night

SAM DEES WAS FARKING BRILIANTINE

[Guest mel brat]

Sam Dees at Thorne -Whoa I was there standing on a chair just by the pillar that was en-route to the toilets, Best night out for many years except for bobby Womack in leeds that was Superb not even 150 people in it was like having Bobby sing in your front room.

Yes, I saw Sam Dees at Thorne. It really brought the tears to my eyes when he did "After All". I also have some of it on tape somewhere...

[Guest mel brat]

Plenty of modern soul here:

soulsorts.jellycast.com/podcast/feed/2

Blatant self-promotion but what the hell, it's just good soul music. In my opinion of course.

Mel Brat wrote this:

The term "Modern Soul" has a relevance and meaning beyond the interpretation of anyone who has recently come to the music in question, whether you like it or not!

Funniest and possibly the most pretentious line I've read on ths forum for a long time!!

Oh really? And what is your contribution to this debate Dodger - other than the simple-minded acceptance of anything and everything you read? "Artful" you ain't!

Edited March 24, 2007 by mel brat

[Souljazera]

mel u must indulge me on this one tape that is....i remember brownie creaming his pants over johnny on the spot find even tried to sell me it.....as i had some good records back then

[Guest mel brat]

What do you mean by 'recently come to the music in question' exactly ?

Lin

My reply wasn't aimed at you PERSONALLY Lin, I was simply using part of your quote to illustrate a point (as I often do on here)

I was really complaining about some people's attempts to rewrite history based ONLY on their limited personal experiences or on second-hand knowledge, without checking any wider sources of background material on which to base their assertions.

This is something I've railed against on here before - notably in regard to the recent 'Soul Britannia' BBC series - where typically sloppy researchers allowed the most outrageous comments about the UK Soul scene to go unchecked, yet reported them as solid fact just because "someone had said so". For that reason I've never quite taken to the "IMO" and "IMHO" (in my humble opinion) abbreviations sometimes used on here, unless in regard to personal taste in music, as an "opinion" plucked out of thin air or purely based on heresay without any factual evidence to back it up, is worse than having no opinion at all.

I have a much wider interest in bringing back reason and honest debate, before well documented truths are abandoned entirely in favour of a history based on "personal options" and "lifestyle choices". (I blame Jacques Derrida!) Only the politicians benefit from that view of the world.

Edited March 25, 2007 by mel brat

[Guest Dodger]

Oh really? And what is your contribution to this debate Dodger - other than the simple-minded acceptance of anything and everything you read? "Artful" you ain't!

It's a pointless debate Mel, on par with the vinyl vs. CD non-debate, I'll pass an agreeing or more like some daft flippant comment, but I'd never get embroiled and put forward my viewpoint on it because it's a waste of time, each side has their own strongly held view and despite anything that 'the opposition' may say, people will never change their beliefs and debates like this invariably end up fizzling out into nothing. On this issue I hold the same view as Steve G, my personal interpretation of 'modern soul' goes along with my interpretation of the word 'modern' in relation to anything else, the literal translation of the word. But that said, I can totally accept your viewpoint of the word 'modern' applying to the type of 70s/80s soul that was immediately post-Wigan, i.e. the Mecca stuff, and it still applying to that genre 20-odd years later - I can see both sides of the argument, and as with the vinyl vs. CD, nobody is actually right, nor are they actually wrong, it's all down to personal interpretation of it. I appreciate what you say about about wanting discussion and debate based on documented fact, but how can there be documented fact on an issue such as this? Or are you taking a Voices article, which was, at the time it was written, more than likely the writer's opinion, as fact?

And regards 'simple acceptance', 'fraid you've singled out the wrong person at whom to aim a comment like that, more often than not I'll laugh at much of the idiocy posted on here, though there are plenty of contributors, who actually make postings that are worth reading, including your good self who's postings on this subject have actually clarified to me why some would regard 70s/80s soul as modern, so for that I thank you.

Loving your artworks as well mate.

Cheers

Roger

Edited March 25, 2007 by Dodger

[Simon M]

How comes peope never mention Sam Dee's at Alex Lowes Weekender , it was jammed packed , where have all those people gone . Top bloke ,Sam ( the real Soul Sam) , top weekend

[Simon M]

Aggro again was it?

Er the footsie I mean not the vinyl bit tho.................

Cheers Paul

I'd say hes a very happy Scotsman these days . I may have a bet on them against Italy

[Guest Dr Bob Jones]

'On this issue I hold the same view as Steve G, my personal interpretation of 'modern soul' goes along with my interpretation of the word 'modern' in relation to anything else, the literal translation of the word. But that said, I can totally accept your viewpoint of the word 'modern' applying to the type of 70s/80s soul that was immediately post-Wigan, i.e. the Mecca stuff, and it still applying to that genre 20-odd years later - I can see both sides of the argument, and as with the vinyl vs. CD, nobody is actually right, nor are they actually wrong, it's all down to personal interpretation of it.'

Cheers

Roger

Spot on Dodger, to each his own , different strokes etc etc.

On a lighter note......

I recall a time when i was spinning at one of the early Upnorth Weekenders ( now called Southport) it was either Fleetwood or Morecombe, sorry the cells are somewhat cloudy on which site it was. Anyway I had a 45 minute set in The Soul Room following Mr Searling. Now it doesn't take much to work out that you cannot play more than about 12 to 14 singles in a 45 min set, average 3 mins /single. So I sorted out about 20 singles in my box and proceed to spin the tunes. I've never drawn the line between 60's, 70's music- to me it is either good or bad music regardless of year or era. So I played Darrell Banks 'Open The Door To Your Heart' one minite then Tony Troutman 'What's The Use' the next. The place was going mad, people were dancing on the bar and the atmosphere was electric and so positive.

In the middle of it all a guy wandered up to the DJ decks and shouted at me 'You can't do that in here mate', I asked what he meant by this 'What can't I do in here?', 'You cannot play 60's and Modern in same room,I'm not having it it's not allowed!' I then asked him to turn around and then tell me what he could see.

He did just that then came back to me and said 'I can't see nothing mate , there's too many people dancing and in my way'.......

This actually happened.

Respect

Dr Bob Jones

[Simon M]

Yep , people dont get Keb Darge's 50's stuff too .. played at Jo's Jo's alongside 60's and 70's

[Russ Vickers]

Spot on Dodger, to each his own , different strokes etc etc.

On a lighter note......

I recall a time when i was spinning at one of the early Upnorth Weekenders ( now called Southport) it was either Fleetwood or Morecombe, sorry the cells are somewhat cloudy on which site it was. Anyway I had a 45 minute set in The Soul Room following Mr Searling. Now it doesn't take much to work out that you cannot play more than about 12 to 14 singles in a 45 min set, average 3 mins /single. So I sorted out about 20 singles in my box and proceed to spin the tunes. I've never drawn the line between 60's, 70's music- to me it is either good or bad music regardless of year or era. So I played Darrell Banks 'Open The Door To Your Heart' one minite then Tony Troutman 'What's The Use' the next. The place was going mad, people were dancing on the bar and the atmosphere was electric and so positive.

In the middle of it all a guy wandered up to the DJ decks and shouted at me 'You can't do that in here mate', I asked what he meant by this 'What can't I do in here?', 'You cannot play 60's and Modern in same room,I'm not having it it's not allowed!' I then asked him to turn around and then tell me what he could see.

He did just that then came back to me and said 'I can't see nothing mate , there's too many people dancing and in my way'.......

This actually happened.

Respect

Dr Bob Jones

Priceless !!! I was once at the bar getting a drink at the Abshott Soul Night that I promoted & a chap one side of me was complaining there was to much 6ts/Northern being played the guy on my other side was complaining that there was too much Modern being played, the room was blowing up big time & thats when I realised we were on to something & that we had just about got the music policy right !!!!!.

............I think the quoted post is one of the most poinient posts on this subject I have read. I love all danceable soul music that has the X factor, I come from a Northern Soul background so my perspective is going to be effected slightly by this I think, but I really do feel we should be in one room on one dancefloor. Current trends, show funkier beats are being accepted along with soul music from all decades, mixed in with 6ts newies & traditional Northern. We have always been a broad church & long may it continue, its for the better if the scene continuously develops musically, keeping it fresh & exciting, whilst show casing the soul music & artists that were/are not widely recognised else where.

Peace, Love & Soulfulness

Russ

Edited March 25, 2007 by Russ Vickers

[Guest Dr Bob Jones]

Priceless !!! I was once at the bar getting a drink at the Abshott Soul Night that I promoted & a chap one side of me was complaining there was to much 6ts/Northern being played the guy on my other side was complaining that there was too much Modern being played, the room was blowing up big time & thats when I realised we were on to something & that we had just about got the music policy right !!!!!.

............I think the quoted post is one of the most poinient posts on this subject I have read. I love all danceable soul music that has the X factor, I come from a Northern Soul background so my perspective is going to be effected slightly by this I think, but I really do feel we should be in one room on one dancefloor. Current trends, show funkier beats are being accepted along with soul music from all decades, mixed in with 6ts newies & traditional Northern. We have always been a broad church & long may it continue, its for the better if the scene continuously develops musically, keeping it fresh & exciting, whilst show casing the soul music & artists that were/are not widely recognised else where.

Peace, Love & Soulfulness

Russ

Amen to that Russ!

Exactly what I did at Prestayn in the Modern Room at 4am on Friday night, I played what I term ' a freestyle set' that incorporated Soul from 60's to 2007, Gospel Dance, Soulful Dance (House), Funk, unreleased future gems and some Jazz. Just quality Black Music with no age barriers and the dance-floor was healthy for my 90 mins despite the room being so large and for me slightly intimidating. I really enjoy playing sets like that.

Respect

Dr Bob Jones

[Guest]

It's a pointless debate Mel, on par with the vinyl vs. CD non-debate, I'll pass an agreeing or more like some daft flippant comment, but I'd never get embroiled and put forward my viewpoint on it because it's a waste of time, each side has their own strongly held view and despite anything that 'the opposition' may say, people will never change their beliefs and debates like this invariably end up fizzling out into nothing. On this issue I hold the same view as Steve G, my personal interpretation of 'modern soul' goes along with my interpretation of the word 'modern' in relation to anything else, the literal translation of the word. But that said, I can totally accept your viewpoint of the word 'modern' applying to the type of 70s/80s soul that was immediately post-Wigan, i.e. the Mecca stuff, and it still applying to that genre 20-odd years later - I can see both sides of the argument, and as with the vinyl vs. CD, nobody is actually right, nor are they actually wrong, it's all down to personal interpretation of it. I appreciate what you say about about wanting discussion and debate based on documented fact, but how can there be documented fact on an issue such as this? Or are you taking a Voices article, which was, at the time it was written, more than likely the writer's opinion, as fact?

And regards 'simple acceptance', 'fraid you've singled out the wrong person at whom to aim a comment like that, more often than not I'll laugh at much of the idiocy posted on here, though there are plenty of contributors, who actually make postings that are worth reading, including your good self who's postings on this subject have actually clarified to me why some would regard 70s/80s soul as modern, so for that I thank you.

Loving your artworks as well mate.

Cheers

Roger

That post is a load of backpeddling, confused bollocks even by your high standard of bollocks, Roger.

The patronising, ego fed display of self angrandiziment of a statement like "I'll laugh at most of the idiocy posted on here" is so jaw droppingly, condescendingly, arrogant it takes statement of the year so far, for sure !

Roger Williams, self appointed King of all he surveys !

[Souljazera]

Exactly what I did at Prestayn in the Modern Room at 4am on Friday night, I played what I term ' a freestyle set' that incorporated Soul from 60's to 2007, Gospel Dance, Soulful Dance (House), Funk, unreleased future gems and some Jazz. Just quality Black Music with no age barriers and the dance-floor was healthy for my 90 mins despite the room being so large and for me slightly intimidating. I really enjoy playing sets like that.

bob couldnt agree more....splash of everything always did it for me

[Guest Dodger]

That post is a load of backpeddling, confused bollocks even by your high standard of bollocks, Roger.

The patronising, ego fed display of self angrandiziment of a statement like "I'll laugh at most of the idiocy posted on here" is so jaw droppingly, condescendingly, arrogant it takes statement of the year so far, for sure !

Roger Williams, self appointed King of all he surveys !

This is the idiocy, and the idiot, I was referring to.

Edited March 25, 2007 by Dodger

[Mike]

thread temp closed