Golden World: Locals & Outsiders Involved

[Roburt]

Robb, lots of the info you just put up on the GW thread on Soulful Detroit should also go up on here as it adds more to the story ....   

[Robbk]

4 hours ago, Roburt said:

Robb, lots of the info you just put up on the GW thread on Soulful Detroit should also go up on here as it adds more to the story ....   

Here is my SDF post on The Chalfontes' relationship to LeBaron Taylor, Myto Music and Golden World, and Andre Williams', Dave Hamilton's, Don Juan Mancha's, and Sonny Sanders' relationship to Mercury Records 1965 & 1966 Detroit Soul production:  

The Chalfontes 2 Mercury records have always been a quandary for me. I guessed that Dynamic Hitbound Productions was run by Dave Hamilton, or was a partnership between Hamilton and Andre Williams.  But, I have since discovered that Lebaron Taylor was their manager.  There is one Chalfontes' song [[out of 4) that has Myto Music sharing the publishing, with Detroit Sound Music. Doc Kyle's Detroit Sound record label and recording studio was started in 1967, LATER than The Chalfontes' 2 Mercury releases, which I believe, were released in late 1965 and early 1966.

The first Detroit Sound label, with The Sequins' record, is listed on Discogs and 45 Cat as being released 1964. [[But it sounds as if it was recorded in '65). The Sequins' Detroit Sound record lists a "Taylor" as one of its 2 producers. Logic tells me that that, particular Taylor was LeBaron.  The 2 Detroit Sound-published Chalfontes' songs are credited to "Dynamic Hit Bound Productions". The credits listed include B. Sharpley [[real name of Detroit DJ, LeBaron Taylor [[Bill Sharpley) on the non-Myto side. I think Dynamic HitBound Productions is a partnership of LeBaron Taylor and one of the other credited people on the record, and that company's music publishing company seems to have been Detroit Sound Music.  Note the similarity between "Dynamic HitBound Productions" and LeBaron Taylor's later partnership with producer/label owner, Don Davis, in the similarly named "Solid Hitbound Productions".

Sonny Sanders, who was working for Golden World at the beginning of that time, along with Andre Williams, Dave Hamilton, (and, possibly, Don Mancha), was the only other name on the NON-Myto shared publishing side, other than LeBaron Taylor's original name (B.Sharpley). The side on which Myto shared the publishing with Detroit Sound has Don[[Juan) Mancha as the writer. So, apparently Mancha shared the publishing with Taylor, only because Mancha wrote the song. The only other credit on the NON-Myto side was to Sonny Sanders. So, maybe Dynamic Hitbound [[was so similar to Solid Hitbound because Taylor owned it alone, or Taylor was in partnership with Sanders). It's even more complicated than that, because Andre Williams, who produced both sides of the OTHER Chalfontes' Mercury record, had a regular production contract with Mercury records producing records by other Detroit artists [[such as Jimmy Holland and several others), as well as a few Chicago artists. On that other Chalfontes' record, Williams worked with Dave Hamilton on both sides. The music on both was published by Mercury's MRC Music. So it seems likely that Williams was the source of all three of these projects to Mercury [[the 3rd being the unreleased cut by Dave Hamilton listed as being published [[or shared publishing) by Myto on Grapevine's list of oddball Myto-published songs (most of which were released on non-Wingate labels). That Dave Hamilton Myto song was perhaps the background instrumental tracks for another Chalfontes' Mercury production or Little Ann Ric-Tic production? 

Does anyone here know of any connection Don Mancha had with Golden World? I remember Steve Mancha writing some Myto songs for Don Davis' Groovesville Records 1001-1003, who were published by Myto to pay Wingate for distributing Davis' label, and using Wingate's facilities while Davis was producing and writing for Wingate's artists productions. But, I can't remember ANY credits for Don Mancha on Wingates' labels' records. I also can't remember, offhand, Sonny Sanders partnering with Andre Williams on Mercury any other Mercury projects (however, I suspect there were some others). But Williams seems to have had his production deal with Mercury run out of Mercury's Chicago office, to produce Chicago and Detroit Soul artist projects simulating "The Detroit Sound" and The Chicago Sound, approximately at the same time as Mercury gave Robert Bateman his contract to run a similar production out of their New York office.  Sanders could have been the connection with Myto, although he wasn't a writer of the song, only listed as its arranger.

The coincidence of Mercury seemingly making these 2 production deals to a current and former Detroit producer, both of whom worked at Motown for several years, looks suspiciously like that major national label, with offices in Chicago and New York, suddenly decided in 1965, when Motown broke out big, and many other Detroit Soul labels started popping up, to tap Detroit's plentiful now proven talent, so Mercury could take advantage of "The Detroit Soul Sound".  And, with Williams still operating BOTH out of Detroit AND Chicago, they could also take advantage of the burgeoning "Chicago Soul Sound", as with his contacts in the Chicago Soul Scene, Williams could also bring his discovered talented production people and singing artists into Mercury's Chicago operation.  I think that Williams' deal with Mercury was one of the main factors that led to Mercury starting up their new Blue Rock record label, to specialise in Chicago and Detroit Soul artists' releases. These would be supplemented recordings of New York-based artists produced in New York, by Robert Bateman, simulating "The Detroit Sound" using Motown's former Jobete Music New York Office's "House Band", they used to "simulate" Detroit's Motown Sound, on their production of demo records to be used by Motown's Detroit singers as guides to sing songs written by Jobete New York.  That band, conducted by pianist Richard Tee (Ten Ryk), used some of New York's best Soul session players, including Gordon Edwards -bassist, Eric Gale - guitarist, Cornell Dupree - guitarist, Bernard "Pretty" Purdie on Drums, Etc.) all of whom had been taught "how to play in the Motown style".  Bateman used them on most of his New York productions, working out of Mercury's New York office.  He also had used them in recording many (if not most) of his non-Mercury mid and late '60s New York productions.

So, it seems that Lebaron Taylor went to Andre Williams to get his group a contract with a national label. I bet they recorded it at United Sound. Or, maybe Golden World, and that's where the connection to Myto Music came in. Surely their 2nd record with the Myto published song, was recorded at Golden World. Andre Williams had opened up his new sub-office in Mercury's Chicago main headquarters, and probably already still had a small office in Detroit. He needed to scrape up a Detroit unit of regular free-lance production people. LeBaron Taylor came with The Chalfontes. Williams recruited Sonny Sanders [[from Golden World), and free-lance writer/producer, free-lancer Dave Hamilton who he may have also met at Golden World, or just approached him as an unattached free-lancer, like he did with Don Juan Mancha. I seem to faintly remember that Mancha worked on another Mercury production, or 2 with Williams (maybe on a Herman Griffin record?).  Many of the Detroit and Chicago productions during Williams' time at Mercury were placed on Blue Rock, which was started to be a label dedicated to showcase the burgeoning Chicago and Detroit Soul Sounds". But several were also placed on Philips(Bobby Hutton, Richard Parker), and some even made it to the parent, Mercury label, such as ex-Motowner, Herman Griffin. But some were also placed on Smash(Luther Ingram, Daylighters, Trends, Naturals, Constellations,Tears) and even Fontana(James Phelps, Diane Cunningham), and even their Jazz label, Limelight Records(Otis Leavill).

By 1967, both Bateman in New York, and Williams in Chicago, were gone from Mercury. Giving more credence to the theory that Bateman and Williams came in on a package deal. Their being dumped [[or having their contracts not renewed) was no surprise, as NONE of their projects produced national, or even regional hits, and only relatively few charted at all. That was despite picking up such well-respected artists as Johnnie Mae Matthews, Sir Mack Rice, Otis Leavill, Luther Ingram, and Timothy Wilson.

Edited 13 hours ago by Robbk

[The Yank]

Here's another Andre WIlliams/ Myto Music/ Detroit recording that ended up with a Mercury label-

 

[The Yank]

From Record World (Feb. 16, 1965) - 

 

[Robbk]

3 hours ago, The Yank said:

From Record World (Feb. 16, 1965) - 

 

"Baby Boy" was written by Wingate/Golden World Records' Myto Music writers, The Hamilton Brothers, specifically for Golden World's Juanita Williams' Golden World release, but, yes, I suppose Janeen Henry's version was recorded in Detroit, given that ex-Motown arranger, Dale Warren (Raynoma Gordy's cousin) was still residing in Detroit then and arranging records there for several Detroit labels.  So, I'm also guessing that like Jimmy Holland, she was one of Andre Williams' Detroit artist signings to Mercury, rather than one of his Chicago artist signings.

Thanks for the Andre Williams article, Yank.  I knew I had read one years ago in either Billboard or Record World (or both). 

I want to check also when Mercury signed their deal with Robert Bateman in their articles about him in those 2 trades.  I know I read at least one, if not in both.  I remember his photograph and the fluff about him being an ex-Motowner.  So, I googled both "Billboard article and Record World article about Robert Bateman being hired/or contracted by Mercury Records",  and came up with nothing.  Having been a child of the 1940s and '50s, I'm TERRIBLE at the "new" technology, like computers, smartphones, and The Internet.  I don't know how to do a proper Internet search.  

You seem to be an expert on that.  Can you do that search for us?  Then we can find out whether or not Mercury's signing of the 2 producers to their two major regional offices was likely to have been related, to jump on the new successful trends of Detroit and Chicago Soul music.

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Robbk

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

"Baby Boy" was written by Wingate/Golden World Records' Myto Music writers, The Hamilton Brothers, specifically for Golden World's Juanita Williams' Golden World release, but, yes, I suppose Janeen Henry's version was recorded in Detroit, given that ex-Motown arranger, Dale Warren (Raynoma Gordy's cousin) was still residing in Detroit then and arranging records there for several Detroit labels.  So, I'm also guessing that like Jimmy Holland, she was one of Andre Williams' Detroit artist signings to Mercury, rather than one of his Chicago artist signings.

Thanks for the Andre Williams article, Yank.  I knew I had read one years ago in either Billboard or Record World (or both). 

I want to check also when Mercury signed their deal with Robert Bateman in their articles about him in those 2 trades.  I know I read at least one, if not in both.  I remember his photograph and the fluff about him being an ex-Motowner.  So, I googled both "Billboard article and Record World article about Robert Bateman being hired/or contracted by Mercury Records",  and came up with nothing.  Having been a child of the 1940s and '50s, I'm TERRIBLE at the "new" technology, like computers, smartphones, and The Internet.  I don't know how to do a proper Internet search.  

You seem to be an expert on that.  Can you do that search for us?  Then we can find out whether or not Mercury's signing of the 2 producers to their two major regional offices was likely to have been related, to jump on the new successful trends of Detroit and Chicago Soul music.

 

Neli Ruston spoke to Robert and I found this (which may give a clue as to an approx date) 

"Luther Ingram would of course become an icon on the Northern soul club circuit with yet another Wylie penned song that would reach classic status, Luther Ingram — “If It’s All The Same To You Babe b/w Exus Trek” — HIB 698 which saw both the vocal and the instrumental sides grace the turntables. Penned by Popcorn and recorded at Golden World Studios in a moonlighting session by The Funk Brothers, Neil Rushton, after a conversation with Robert Bateman says he (Bateman), took the tapes to Mercury studios in New York and overdubbed strings to create the 'orchestra' feel. Bateman says he sold about 5,000 copies, before achieving a distribution deal from Jerry Wexler at Atlantic Records. He was trying to capture a similar sound to The Four Tops and in doing so, produced a stone classic of the Northern Soul scene with a record that still fills dance-floors even today."

[Robbk]

4 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Neli Ruston spoke to Robert and I found this (which may give a clue as to an approx date) 

"Luther Ingram would of course become an icon on the Northern soul club circuit with yet another Wylie penned song that would reach classic status, Luther Ingram — “If It’s All The Same To You Babe b/w Exus Trek” — HIB 698 which saw both the vocal and the instrumental sides grace the turntables. Penned by Popcorn and recorded at Golden World Studios in a moonlighting session by The Funk Brothers, Neil Rushton, after a conversation with Robert Bateman says he (Bateman), took the tapes to Mercury studios in New York and overdubbed strings to create the 'orchestra' feel. Bateman says he sold about 5,000 copies, before achieving a distribution deal from Jerry Wexler at Atlantic Records. He was trying to capture a similar sound to The Four Tops and in doing so, produced a stone classic of the Northern Soul scene with a record that still fills dance-floors even today."

And Bateman recorded the follow-up using Richard Tee's band for Mercury (Smash) in New York, a few months after.  But, as he took the tapes to Mercury to overdub the strings, he most likely already had his production deal with them, or he'd have overdubbed the strings in Detroit.  So this tells us only THAT, and not when he started with them.  He was an independent producer whose contract with Mercury was NOT likely to have been exclusive.  He'd still have been allowed to work on his own projects in his "off time".  He DID bring Ingram into the Mercury fold with the follow-up, in any case, so Mercury would have been satisfied.  The HIB record was released in 1966.  Andre Williams was signed by Mercury in February, 1965.  We know that Bateman was already working with Mercury in 1966, but not when he started with them.  I still need to find the Billboard or Record World article on his signing.  It WAS on The Internet when I last read it.  But I haven't been able to find it now.

[Roburt]

Robb, I don't think what you read can have been in Billboard. All I could find relating to Robert Bateman in Billboard (apart from credits for 45 releases he gets noted on) were these ... 

An early Mercury related 45 that Bateman / Moseley were responsible for was the November 65 release on Phillips -- The La Vettes – Practice What You've Been Preachin' (# 40338). He had time at Double-L, Capitol & End before going with Mercury ... at End he also worked with Moseley (at the time Moseley was penning songs in conjunction with Sid Barnes & JJ Jackson) ...  

[Robbk]

16 minutes ago, Roburt said:

Robb, I don't think what you read can have been in Billboard. All I could find relating to Robert Bateman in Billboard (apart from credits for 45 releases he gets noted on) were these ... 

An early Mercury related 45 that Bateman / Moseley were responsible for was the November 65 release on Phillips -- The La Vettes – Practice What You've Been Preachin' (# 40338). He had time at Double-L, Capitol & End before going with Mercury ... at End he also worked with Moseley (at the time Moseley was penning songs in conjunction with Sid Barnes & JJ Jackson) ...  

The LaVettes release occurred very late 1965; whereas, Andre Williams' stint with Mercury was from February of that year.  This article states that that record was an EARLY Mercury project for Bateman.  So it's not very likely that Bateman was signed to Mercury anytime near February, and most of his Mercury time was in late 1965 and early 1966 (a much shorter run than Williams', and only partly overlapping).  So, it seems likely that the 2 producers didn't come to Mercury as a package, or as part of a single Mercury plan to "modernize" their Soul Music style.  Still, I'd like to find that article I read to find out when Bateman signed with Mercury.  It must have been in Record World.  But, I would SWEAR that I read it in Billboard, and I can see where I was and the logos on The magazine's front page.  I'm SURE I read it in Billboard.

[The Yank]

I did find an article in Billboard about "Bob" Bateman from January, 1966 but it also included a lot of info about other producers. However, this article from Record World (November 27, 1965) shows things were in progress earlier-