Golden World: Locals & Outsiders Involved

[Blackpoolsoul]

4 minutes ago, Roburt said:

Chess did well with their cover version of "Man Loves Two" ... (by Little Milton). So a few years later, they returned the favour & signed Chuck to a deal. 

He had a 45 out that he hoped would be a breakthrough release for him. Unfortunately, Chess didn't promote it so his creer didn't take off due to this single ... 

Now I know why he sang in the Ankara "Mob" joint in Pittsburg. He even admits himself to the "Mob Boss" connection in his book 

[Roburt]

9 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Now I know why he sang in the Ankara "Mob" joint in Pittsburg. He even admits himself to the "Mob Boss" connection in his book 

 

Yes, Chuck is quite open that his Italian heritage helped him get some jobs in Pittsburgh, Atlantic City, Vegas and the like. Anyone that's interested in his story can buy the new edition of SOUL UP NORTH mag ... 

Edited September 17 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Chuck Corby's civic award for lasting 65 years in the music biz (he's still performing today) ...

[Robbk]

On 16/09/2024 at 21:51, Blackpoolsoul said:

This article from George Kerr Rob

Thanks for uploading this article, BlackpoolSoul.  Now I know what all readers of Sidney Barnes' book knew, - that Maltese Records was totally owned by Bud Granoff and Irv Biegel, without ownership participation by Ed Wingate or Golden World.  So, Biegel, working part time in Detroit, had his A&R man, and chief producer, George Kerr, record background tracks at Golden World Recording Studio, had them produce his masters, and ordered pressing of Maltese's commercial issues at Columbia Midwest (Terre Haute, Indiana), ostensibly through Golden World's account there. Of course, Biegel used Maltese's own funds to pay for that, and Granoff probably kept the masters when Maltese shut down.  What I also didn't know before this revelation, was that George Kerr worked on his Maltese productions in Detroit, including writing some songs, and recording some vocal and some music tracks there.  I had known that several (if not most of their music tracks) had been recorded in Detroit, but I thought they had been produced by Wingate's producers using Motown musicians and arrangers.  I didn't know that Kerr had stayed in Detroit after leaving Motown, and migrated from Motown to Wingate's operations along with George Clinton and his crew, Sidney Barnes, Gene Redd, Jr., and, it seems, Irv Biegel.  I had thought Kerr had returned to New York (where he had never left, but bounced between the 2 cities), and just produced songwriting, demos, and vocal recording on their NY artists there, using Richard T.  and his band, who stayed in New York, not being brought to Detroit by Berry Gordy in late 1964, after the closing down of Jobete Music, NewYork, as George Clinton, and Kerr and Barnes were.  Now I know that George Kerr worked in Detroit for Maltese, as "Mr. Lucky", and although Irv Biegel acted as a business manager for Golden World/Ric-Tic, while also running Maltese, in a similar manner, using Wingate's operational channels and connections, Maltese was NOT a subsidiary of Wingate's Golden World.  But, clearly, it was related enough to consider it a member of  Golden World's "family of labels.  However, this doesn't effect my belief that Gene Redd Jr.'s Stephanye Records was a partly-owned subsidiary of Golden World, (as I have read that in a few places) Unfortunately, I can't remember the sources for that.  However, I'm sure that Redd kept the masters for their 3 releases.

I'd like to know where Irv Biegel was stationed when working for Motown, and exactly what he was doing.  My guess was that he was hired, originally, by Miss Ray, to manage the business end of Jobete Music, New York office, and operated solely out of New York. The article about him made it sound like he had been working for Motown in Detroit after Jobete NY was shut down. I'd be shocked to find out that that had happened.  I'd have guessed he'd not have been kept on, and brought to Detroit by Berry Gordy, after the latter shut down the New York operations, like he brought George Clinton and The Parliaments, and George Kerr and Sidney Barnes. 

I assume that Bud Granoff hired and partnered up with Biegel to operate his new (Maltese) record company, taking advantage of the newly-available talent that had operated Motown's New York operation.  And When Clinton, Kerr and Barnes decided to leave Motown in Detroit, they were either approached by Wingate, or went to see about hooking up with his rising Detroit label, which was starting to rival Motown.  Upon reaching production agreements with Wingate, they decided to try to bring in their Motown New York colleague, Gene Redd, Jr., and Kerr, now alone, after Barnes decided to team up with Clinton, convinced Biegel to get his partner Granoff to make him Chief producer and A&R man of their new label, and to team up with Wingate, to continue to take advantage of the burgeoning popularity of The "Detroit Sound", using Detroit's musicians and arrangers and songwriters (most of whom had recently worked (or still were working) for Motown Records. 

Edited September 18 by Robbk

[Roburt]

Chuck Corby's various versions of his "Man Loves Two" 45 + an ad for the single's release ... 

THEN  ... a recent pic of Chuck performing ... 

[Roburt]

Chuck was quite photogenic back in the day ...

so he got a few ad bookings for products ... 

[Roburt]

Chuck Corby's 45 on a local radio chart ...

& Little Milton's cover version which charted nationally ...

 

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 17/09/2024 at 23:40, Robbk said:

Thanks for uploading this article, BlackpoolSoul.  Now I know what all readers of Sidney Barnes' book knew, - that Maltese Records was totally owned by Bud Granoff and Irv Biegel, without ownership participation by Ed Wingate or Golden World.  So, Biegel, working part time in Detroit, had his A&R man, and chief producer, George Kerr, record background tracks at Golden World Recording Studio, had them produce his masters, and ordered pressing of Maltese's commercial issues at Columbia Midwest (Terre Haute, Indiana), ostensibly through Golden World's account there. Of course, Biegel used Maltese's own funds to pay for that, and Granoff probably kept the masters when Maltese shut down.  What I also didn't know before this revelation, was that George Kerr worked on his Maltese productions in Detroit, including writing some songs, and recording some vocal and some music tracks there.  I had known that several (if not most of their music tracks) had been recorded in Detroit, but I thought they had been produced by Wingate's producers using Motown musicians and arrangers.  I didn't know that Kerr had stayed in Detroit after leaving Motown, and migrated from Motown to Wingate's operations along with George Clinton and his crew, Sidney Barnes, Gene Redd, Jr., and, it seems, Irv Biegel.  I had thought Kerr had returned to New York (where he had never left, but bounced between the 2 cities), and just produced songwriting, demos, and vocal recording on their NY artists there, using Richard T.  and his band, who stayed in New York, not being brought to Detroit by Berry Gordy in late 1964, after the closing down of Jobete Music, NewYork, as George Clinton, and Kerr and Barnes were.  Now I know that George Kerr worked in Detroit for Maltese, as "Mr. Lucky", and although Irv Biegel acted as a business manager for Golden World/Ric-Tic, while also running Maltese, in a similar manner, using Wingate's operational channels and connections, Maltese was NOT a subsidiary of Wingate's Golden World.  But, clearly, it was related enough to consider it a member of  Golden World's "family of labels.  However, this doesn't effect my belief that Gene Redd Jr.'s Stephanye Records was a partly-owned subsidiary of Golden World, (as I have read that in a few places) Unfortunately, I can't remember the sources for that.  However, I'm sure that Redd kept the masters for their 3 releases.

I'd like to know where Irv Biegel was stationed when working for Motown, and exactly what he was doing.  My guess was that he was hired, originally, by Miss Ray, to manage the business end of Jobete Music, New York office, and operated solely out of New York. The article about him made it sound like he had been working for Motown in Detroit after Jobete NY was shut down. I'd be shocked to find out that that had happened.  I'd have guessed he'd not have been kept on, and brought to Detroit by Berry Gordy, after the latter shut down the New York operations, like he brought George Clinton and The Parliaments, and George Kerr and Sidney Barnes. 

I assume that Bud Granoff hired and partnered up with Biegel to operate his new (Maltese) record company, taking advantage of the newly-available talent that had operated Motown's New York operation.  And When Clinton, Kerr and Barnes decided to leave Motown in Detroit, they were either approached by Wingate, or went to see about hooking up with his rising Detroit label, which was starting to rival Motown.  Upon reaching production agreements with Wingate, they decided to try to bring in their Motown New York colleague, Gene Redd, Jr., and Kerr, now alone, after Barnes decided to team up with Clinton, convinced Biegel to get his partner Granoff to make him Chief producer and A&R man of their new label, and to team up with Wingate, to continue to take advantage of the burgeoning popularity of The "Detroit Sound", using Detroit's musicians and arrangers and songwriters (most of whom had recently worked (or still were working) for Motown Records. 

1962, Barney Ales hired Irv Biegel and Phil Jones. Biegal was assigned him to singles sales and promotion with Jones doing the same with albums.

[Simon T]

7 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

1962, Barney Ales hired Irv Biegel and Phil Jones. Biegal was assigned him to singles sales and promotion with Jones doing the same with albums.

https://www.history-of-rock.com/motown_recordstwo.htm

[Robbk]

2 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

1962, Barney Ales hired Irv Biegel and Phil Jones. Biegal was assigned him to singles sales and promotion with Jones doing the same with albums.

So, was Biegel still headquartered in New York, and travelled nationally?  Or did he move to Detroit?  Or was he born and raised in Detroit, and working in Detroit before Barney hired him?  If it was the latter case, then Biegel must have known about Clinton, Barnes, and George Kerr leaving Motown and going to Wingate, and decided there was an opportunity for him with Wingate, and either HE, or Kerr (more likely Kerr) got Granoff involved to form a new label (for Kerr to run a record label as an outlet to use his songwriting and record production skills to continue earning a living), as his former partner, Barnes had decided to team up with Clinton.  

[The Yank]

Not sure if Irv was born in Detroit but, this article makes it seems like he had been working in the area for years- 

 

[Robbk]

3 hours ago, The Yank said:

Not sure if Irv was born in Detroit but, this article makes it seems like he had been working in the area for years- 

 

Thanks Yank,

So it appears that George Kerr met Biegel while both were at Motown in Detroit, and when Barnes and Kerr decided to leave Motown, and Barnes decided to team up with Clinton, and approached Wingate (probably with the help of Biegel (who also left Motown), Kerr needed an outlet for his talents.  So, maybe he asked Biegel to find a financier to back a new record company that Kerr could run the day-to-day record producing operations.  So, Biegel found a New York financier, so that the new label could have operations both in New York and Detroit (so Kerr could still spend time where his family and friends were, and still produce in Detroit as well, to take advantage of "The Motown Sound").  Biegel probably found Granoff through his connections with New York Area national distributors.  My bguess is that Kerr kept his house in New Jersey, and just rented a small apartment in Detroit, because he had no guarantees that he'd be with Motown a long time.  As was born out when he found out that Gordy wanted him as a songwriter, but didn't want to pay him to be a producer.  Clinton was in that same situation.  Biegel had a similar situation with Motown, having to face a ceiling, blocking him from moving higher up.  So he left to get a more powerful job and more money with Wingate, and also had a chance to not only handle the business end of a new record label, but also participate in its profits as a junior partner.  The interesting thing is that he could do that benefitting from using Motown's musicians, and what he had learned from the inside, about the way of operating that brought success to Gordy's operation (so he thought).  But, his tenure with Wingate wasn't very long, and Maltese Records had very little success, if any.  I don't remember seeing that ANY of their releases charted, even on the R&B charts.  I don't recall seeing any Maltese records on The West Coast.  I don't think I saw any in Chicago record shops.  I think I found most of mine in Detroit bargain bins and thrift shops.  Maybe some made the Woolworth sales (even in Chicago).

Yank.  Do you remember seeing any Maltese records in Chicagoland?

[The Yank]

I have never come across Maltese Records in Chicago but I have found  a few Stephanye 45's (Shirley J. Scott and the Prophets) . 

[Robbk]

5 minutes ago, The Yank said:

I have never come across Maltese Records in Chicago but I have found  a few Stephanye 45's (Shirley J. Scott and the Prophets) . 

Yes, I found all 3 of the Stephanye 45s in The Chicago Area.  They got national distribution through Wingate's distribution channels. As I stated before, I've read in several places that Stephanye was not only distributed by Golden World, but was a partnership, half-owned subsidiary of Golden World.  I think that the reason they had only the 3 releases was because of the early falling out between Wingate and Gene Redd.  I think Maltese Records only got regional distribution in The Northeast, and probably also in Detroit/Southeastern Michigan and Toledo/Northwest Ohio.

[Roburt]

So it seems BG was (partially) responsible for a lot of talent (both NY & Detroit based) ending up with Wingate / Golden World / Ric Tic. Then, when the 'new' outfit had enjoyed a few hits he got upset (maybe too strong a word) and bought them out. Strange goings on indeed.

I think Gene Redd had lots of 'street smarts' even when based in NY, before starting to work in Detroit. Sidney Barnes worked a lot with him in NY but by the time he was in Detroit, he chose not to collaborate with Redd (though he had a lot of appreciation for him & his work).    

[Roburt]

Lots of other 'outside artists' cut @ Golden World. One of those being Rufus Wonder & the Additions.

The Additions (aka the Editions) were teamed with Rufus for the session that resulted in their Lando 45. They originally undertook the cutting of Rufus's songs at United Sound (65) but that session didn't work out. So a few days later they went into Golden World studios and re-cut "Under The Moon" (info ascertained by Boba in an interview & by David Flynn).  

Is it known which Detroit studio the other Lando cuts were recorded in ?

Rufus stated that he & the Additions sang backing vocals on Carl Carlton's "I Love Only You" (for Lando). Edd Henry the song's writer also cut the song (for Lando sub label Nu-Sound). No idea if Rufus sang on that version as well. Don't think it's mentioned which studio either of those sessions were undertaken at. 

Edited Tuesday at 20:43 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Prompted by another thread on here (the one on the UK London version of Darrell Banks' classic single), thought I'd add in this bit of info from Sidney Barnes ... (it links to comments from him that I quoted earlier concerning CAN'T SHAKE IT LOOSE by PAT LEWIS) ..

Darrell Banks 45's B side is yet another example of 'strange goings on' with regard to publishing credits on Detroit 45's ..... BMI has the writers credits for OUR LOVE IS IN THE POCKET down as being Clinton / McCoy / Joanne Bratton -- the 45's label having the 3rd name as Joanne Jackson).

In fact, the song was penned by George Clinton & Sidney Barnes ... not a happy situation for Sidney who states that ...  I will forever be pissed about it.

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:01 by Roburt

[Roburt]

A few Golden World-ers are featured here. What GW cuts mean to us & what UK NS fans mean to them  ....

 

 

 

[Roburt]

My main aim when starting up this thread was to discover how many 'out of towners' cut in the Golden World studio. I knew from my contact with Chuck Corby that his group (from Pittsburgh) cut there. But, ascertaining just which local & national 'outside acts (i.e. non GW / Ric Tic / Wingate) cut in the studio isn't an easy task.

Obviously the likes of United Sound & Rainbow / Tera Shirma undertook similar work In Detroit for many acts (I believe some GW tracks were even cut @ Tera Shirma & Chuck Jackson cut there too).

But which of the local 'little label' acts used GW studios -- I'm thinking of acts who had releases on the likes of Thelma, Velgo, Soulhawk, M-S, Groove City, Groovesville, Revilot, Impact, Drew, D Town, Ashford, Atac, Big Hit, Boo, Carla, De-To, Diamond Jim, Dottys, Inferno, La Beat, Kool Kat, Mahs, Sepia, etc.

Are such facts known ?

Edited 5 hours ago by Roburt

[Robbk]

57 minutes ago, Roburt said:

My main aim when starting up this thread was to discover how many 'out of towners' cut in the Golden World studio. I knew from my contact with Chuck Corby that his group (from Pittsburgh) cut there. But, ascertaining just which local & national 'outside acts (i.e. non GW / Ric Tic / Wingate) cut in the studio isn't an easy task.

Obviously the likes of United Sound & Rainbow / Tera Shirma undertook similar work In Detroit for many acts (I believe some GW tracks were even cut @ Tera Shirma & Chuck Jackson cut there too).

But which of the local 'little label' acts used GW studios -- I'm thinking of acts who had releases on the likes of Thelma, Velgo, Soulhawk, M-S, Groove City, Groovesville, Revilot, Impact, Drew, D Town, Ashford, Atac, Big Hit, Boo, Carla, De-To, Diamond Jim, Dottys, Inferno, La Beat, Kool Kat, Mahs, Sepia, etc.

Are such facts known ?

Velgo recorded at Sidra and Ernstrat/Terra Shirma, a lot of Don Davis' Thelma productions were recorded at United Sound. Mike Hanks' D-Town and MAH's recorded in his own Pig Pen, but he DID record a few of his latest recordings at Golden World, and even had Golden World distribute them.  Most of Don Davis' Groovesville, Groove City, and his and LeBaron Taylor's Solid Hitbound/Revilot labels recorded mainly at United Sound (Including The O'Jays).  Drew recorded at Sidra, Carla and a lot of Ollie McLaughlin's labels productions were recorded in Chicago, but some recorded in Detroit before 1965 were recorded at Motown's Snakepit, and later at Golden World ("Cool Jerk" being one).  Impact and Inferno recorded at Golden World, Kool Kat recorded at Golden World. Mike Terry recorded most of his projects at Golden World, some at Sidra.  Popcorn Wylie at several different studios, including United Sound, Golden World, Sidra and Terra Shirma.  A lot of Detroit Soul productions were recorded at United Sound Systems, by both small and large labels. 

There were several other smaller studios around the city:  Correc-Tone/Magic City, Pioneer Recording, Artie Fields Productions, Bumpshop, Master Recording, Mickay's Recording, Northwest Sound, Fortune Records, Diamond Recording, Detroit Sound, Continental Recording, Carrie/LaBeat Recording, Sound, Inc., Tri-Sound Recording, JVB Recording, Special Recordings, Sound Patterns, McCoy Recording Co., Jackpot Recording Co., Rainbow/Ernstrat Recording, Temple/TCB Recording, Blue Star Recording, Viney Recording Studio, Northwest Sound, Gold Soul Studios, Dotty's Recording Co., Golden Hit Productions, Tower Recording.

Many of these recording studios were owned by record producers, as you know from their Northern Soul records on labels of the same name.

 

[Roburt]

I knew you'd have most of the answers Robb.

 

[Wilxy]

2 minutes ago, Roburt said:

I knew you'd have most of the answers Robb.

 

That is what you call Knowledge.....!