Geeselad Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) Always source of interest for me, I often try to pin down the records that would have formed the models for most black music of the 60's, you have to limit it to sone extent, 70's to follow perhaps. I used rhythm and blues in the most general terms, records aimed at or created by black Americans. Be they funk, soul, R&B, gospel ect. Anything goes here. I'll start with a few I'd suggest as crucial to the development of black music, although pretty obvious, there must be loads more to go at. Be great to have you top 5's, year would be nice too. Wilson pickett- midnight hour - stax studios 1965 Fontella bass- rescue me- chess 1965 Bobby parker - watch your step- V tone Washington 1961 Friends of distinction - grazing in the grass- RCA 1969 Temptation - I know I'm loosing you - Motown 1966 Edited July 19 by Geeselad Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Happy Feet Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 The one that probably started the whole shape of things to come ,, Ray Charles , What I'd Say , 61 ish , I'll have to think or work on the other 4 . Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Geeselad Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 1 hour ago, Happy Feet said: The one that probably started the whole shape of things to come ,, Ray Charles , What I'd Say , 61 ish , I'll have to think or work on the other 4 . Good call, not just on black music, I saw Alex Harvey talking in an interview about how influential that record was, in Hamburg at the time of release. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Tobytyke Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Drifters. Some Kind of Wonderful, one of the first r&b records to use strings,which influenced so many other records of the 60s and 70s. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Geeselad Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 6 hours ago, Tobytyke said: Drifters. Some Kind of Wonderful, one of the first r&b records to use strings,which influenced so many other records of the 60s and 70s. Thanks, I honestly didn't know that but can see the significance. I'm assuming Clyde mcphatter on lead there, what a strong lead vocal. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mal C Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 I'm gonna have a stab at this, but remember, Im 54 years young, I wasnt listening to the radio in the 6ts, I was just a 'glint' as they say...some of these are early, in fact they all are... Chuck Willis - C.C. Rider The Falcons - I Found A Love Barrett Strong - Money (That's What I Want) Sonny Boy Williamson - Let Your Conscience Be Your Guide Ray Charles - Hit The Road Jack Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Woodbutcher Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 2 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
The Tempest Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 I think for me - this has to be up there ! It’s been played out since the day it was discovered pre Wheel - it’s been played out everywhere - and continues to do so packing floors up and down the country - with its feel good lyrics and killer hook - a winner for me everytime 3 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 (edited) A song that everyone performed back in the 60's (UK beat groups & US soul acts) was "Knock On Wood". It has stood the test of time too, so I'd nominate Eddie Floyd's biggie. PLUS ... with regard to Chicago R&B / soul ... most Chicago tracks were very blues based until around 1962 when Curtis Mayfield + the Impressions took the city's sound in a whole new direction. You could nominate one of many songs Curtis penned as INFLUENTIAL but I guess it's his songbook / sound as a whole that counts as being the most influential factor. Can't ignore the influence of early 60's Motown tracks, mid 60's Stax tracks or early to mid 60's New Orleans stuff (pre & post Allen Toussaint). As it was performed by so many other UK & US acts I'd go with "Ride Your Pony" as being the most influential of AT's songs / recordings). Edited July 20 by Roburt Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post Smudger Posted July 20 Popular Post Share Posted July 20 5 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dylan Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 so many versions of this song. Probably the most copied song I know. 3 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 1 minute ago, Dylan said: so many versions of this song. Probably the most copied song I know. I'd say NOT ... other 60's soul songs have been done by more different artists. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Smudger Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Could go on for ages but I’ll get into trouble 2 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 I'd agree with our kid; you can't ignore at least one track from the Duke / Peacock / Backbeat catalogue. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dylan Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 13 minutes ago, Roburt said: I'd say NOT ... other 60's soul songs have been done by more different artists. Still hugely influential though and has lots of versions And then also other titles :- funky 4 corners, Harlem rumble, ton of dynamite etc In terms of influence the amen break pretty much created a whole genre in drum and bass so that’s hugely influential 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Alan T Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 James Brown - Out Of Sight - Smash (1964) 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mal C Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 7 minutes ago, Alan T said: James Brown - Out Of Sight - Smash (1964) If you are looking for JB influences, it would have to be 'Live at the Apollo' 1963, wouldn’t it? every black family in America had a copy of this LP, and I think he / they (The Flames) did Ed Sullivan show a few years after, 1966, It don’t come bigger that that does it... Gleeslad, you did already, but maybe we can define this a bit more, influential R&B / Soul releases, for the US, the UK or Worldwide, or just the northern soul fraternity? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Tlscapital Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dylan said: Still hugely influential though and has lots of versions And then also other titles :- funky 4 corners, Harlem rumble, ton of dynamite etc In terms of influence the amen break pretty much created a whole genre in drum and bass so that’s hugely influential Exactly I concur as the OP stated " the records that would have formed the models for most black music of the 60's" and this example is exactly that. Not only going by the numbers of covers or popularity to advocate of the popularity of a song (which in a way imposes itself into a genre) but setting new trends in sounds by breaking the classic 'mold'. Edited July 20 by Tlscapital 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Alan T Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 9 minutes ago, Mal C said: If you are looking for JB infuences, it would have to be 'Live at the Apollo' 1963, wouldnt it? every black family in America had a copy of this LP, and I think he / they (The Flames) did Ed Sullivan show a few years after, 66 wasnt it. It dont come bigger that that does it... JB was doing his Rhythm & Blues / Soul songs for years and you could hear the changes coming to songs that became a new and different genre. I think the real syncopated Funk that shaped things to come came from "Out Of Sight" . 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Tobytyke Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 2 hours ago, Geeselad said: Thanks, I honestly didn't know that but can see the significance. I'm assuming Clyde mcphatter on lead there, what a strong lead vocal. Ben E King.One of many incredible lead singers. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Davace Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 1963- The Neptunes House of Heartaches on Instant.Rooted in doowop. Little Johnny Taylor Somewhere down the line on Galaxy progressing from the blues. Ronnie Forte That was Whiskey Talkin on Tarx Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jimmy Mack Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Sam Cooke probably influenced a host of future soul artists 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Happy Feet Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 (edited) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_McCracklin My 2nd choice, Jimmy McCracklin ,The Walk ,Chess records 58 . Edited July 20 by Happy Feet 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Geeselad Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 4 hours ago, Dylan said: so many versions of this song. Probably the most copied song I know. Was 6th I'm my top 5! 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Hooker1951 Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 You could go on forever with this list, far to many to mention, thousands not hundreds Mick 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Geeselad Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 Thanks for all the contributions so far. Plenty of worthy suggestions, some I don't know but will listen to everything suggested. I was born in 1969 so often don't get the context of the market/ music scene at the time and find this stuff really useful. Please keep them coming Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Happy Feet Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 4 hours ago, Roburt said: Can't ignore the influence of early 60's Motown tracks, mid 60's Stax tracks or early to mid 60's New Orleans stuff (pre & post Allen Toussaint). As it was performed by so many other UK & US acts I'd go with "Ride Your Pony" as being the most influential of AT's songs / recordings). My number 3 , Allen Toussaint connection,,,, Benny Spellman , Fortune Teller Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Geeselad Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 3 hours ago, Mal C said: If you are looking for JB influences, it would have to be 'Live at the Apollo' 1963, wouldn’t it? every black family in America had a copy of this LP, and I think he / they (The Flames) did Ed Sullivan show a few years after, 1966, It don’t come bigger that that does it... Gleeslad, you did already, but maybe we can define this a bit more, influential R&B / Soul releases, for the US, the UK or Worldwide, or just the northern soul fraternity? Worldwide, the Most influential in not just soul but any genre. bobby parker was influential in terms of rock as well as the development of black music Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 If you meant influential with UK fans (rather than influential with other US acts or with US buyers) ... then if your local club DJ had imports as early as 63 OR if not & he only had UK 45's then from 65 right through to 1970, "Harlem Shuffle" would have been just about the biggest mod / UK soul club track of influence. 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Geeselad Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 2 hours ago, Roburt said: If you meant influential with UK fans (rather than influential with other US acts or with US buyers) ... then if your local club DJ had imports as early as 63 OR if not & he only had UK 45's then from 65 right through to 1970, "Harlem Shuffle" would have been just about the biggest mod / UK soul club track of influence. I'm not being specific, just most influential! Harlem shuffle had to be a great call. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Stephen Houghton Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 RL BURNSIDE ,ITS BAD YOU KNOW . sort of haunting ,you know it from the first chords 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Tlscapital Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 4 hours ago, Roburt said: ...if your local club DJ had imports as early as 63 OR if not & he only had UK 45's then from 65 right through to 1970, "Harlem Shuffle" would have been just about the biggest mod / UK soul club track of influence. Yes that's a solid one. That took it all to another level. As early as October 1963 ! To my ears it still sounds like a 1966 thing... So much it's ahead of its time. Indeed it specifically marked the mods in the UK but mostly and firstly Stateside it did mark the whole 'Popular' and 'R'n'B' music industry in many ways. A 'corner stone' anthem of the genre. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
The Yank Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 18 hours ago, Tobytyke said: Drifters. Some Kind of Wonderful, one of the first r&b records to use strings,which influenced so many other records of the 60s and 70s. You can go back even further to "There Goes My Baby" from 1959. 9 hours ago, Tobytyke said: Ben E King.One of many incredible lead singers. Rudy Lewis was the lead singer on "Some Kind..." Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 (edited) With reference to the UK mod / soul scene .... UK 45 & LP releases that catered to the mod crowd in the early 60's came (a lot of the time) from the likes of Pye (& it's subsid labels), then Sue / Island with EMI always having it's toe in the water. A stranger collaboration came when Oriole took on the Motown catalogue. But EMI jumped in & got hold of Motown. Even though the company was a massive worldwide organisation, it always seemed to have the b*lls to employ staff who liked their own particular specialities ... soul in particular. It soon realised that to market US 45's by (then) obscure acts you had to badge them up to catch buyers attention. Hence SOUL SUPPLY, DISCOTHEQUE 66, etc. Edited July 21 by Roburt Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 (edited) MORE IN A SIMILAR VEIN TO THE ABOVE .... a DJ who you wouldn't have expected to have been championing a NS ender years ahead of it taking off on the scene ... FLUFF FREEMAN .... AND OF COURSE, the likes of the Beatles, Stones, Tom Jones, Rusty Springbored bigging up our music helped convince UK labels to put more stuff out. Edited July 21 by Roburt 3 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 What might have been ... though it could have turned out to be a train wreck ... it seems BG had songs like "Reach Out I'll Be There" & "Walk Away Renee" pencilled in to be cut by this Welsh guy ... 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Hooker1951 Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 I always thought Tom jones could’ve done some big Tamla oldies and Chuck Jackson type sounds, he would’ve been a good substitute for Levi Stubbs I’m not saying better by any means but I think he would’ve been able to put his own marker down on a lot f the soul and Motown classics. Mick 11 minutes ago, Roburt said: What might have been ... though it could have turned out to be a train wreck ... it seems BG had songs like "Reach Out I'll Be There" & "Walk Away Renee" pencilled in to be cut by this Welsh guy ... 3 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 3 minutes ago, Hooker1951 said: I always thought Tom jones could’ve done some big Tamla oldies and Chuck Jackson type sounds, he would’ve been a good substitute for Levi Stubbs I’m not saying better by any means but I think he would’ve been able to put his own marker down on a lot f the soul and Motown classics. Mick Well his heart would have been into it ... BUT as with Chuck Jackson; joining Motown might have killed off his recording career for a while ... but then, he might have thrived & been even bigger. GETTING WAY OFF THE ORIGINAL TOPIC NOW ... but Bloodstone's career only took off (commercially) when the moved to the UK, teamed up with Mike Vernon and started cutting in London & Oxfordshire. From 73 to 76 they had 2 big US 45 hits every year ... their Decca contract then ran out & they could sign with a big US label (by then, they were much bigger back in the States than here). They took their time but went with Motown as their new label. It killed their career record wise & they only returned to winning ways when they escaped Motown & signed with the Isley's T Neck label. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 The prevailing view of many involved with the UK music biz in the mid 60's ... a music mag 45 review ... 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Shinehead Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 (edited) 7 hours ago, Roburt said: What might have been ... though it could have turned out to be a train wreck ... it seems BG had songs like "Reach Out I'll Be There" & "Walk Away Renee" pencilled in to be cut by this Welsh guy ... Thank f*** it never came about the thought of Jones doing those songs and others in Detroit with Motown does not dare thinking about. Jones at Motown nearly as big as tragedy as what happened to Delilah. Edited July 21 by Shinehead 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 I've posted too much on this thread already ... BUT just have to add that I can't believe there's been so many posts on here AND YET no mention yet of OTIS REDDING and his records. Otis was a big factor in southern soul catching on with UK fans in 1963/64. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Shinehead Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 49 minutes ago, Roburt said: AND YET no mention yet of OTIS REDDING and his records. Otis was a big factor in southern soul catching on with UK fans in 1963/64. Maybe the reason for no mention of Otis is because i thought ? the main gist of the thread was records that changed the musical direction of black music in the U.S. example R&b to early soul then the Motown Sound then to more funk and album oriented stuff and seventies sweet soul, not records that had an influence on British listeners. Or maybe I am wrong as usual ?. 3 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jez Jones Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 hour ago, Roburt said: I've posted too much on this thread already ... BUT just have to add that I can't believe there's been so many posts on here AND YET no mention yet of OTIS REDDING and his records. Otis was a big factor in southern soul catching on with UK fans in 1963/64. Here's one that seems to have been around FOREVER...pre dates the 'scene' as such but was perfect for the early mod/allnighter crowd dance style....sort of hoppity hop from side to side...long before the slippy slidey style arrived in the 70's enjoy and betcha nod your head lol 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Hooker1951 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Nearly everything that Otis Reading and Wilson Picket recorded in the md 1960,s at a profound influence in making RnB popular in the1960,s, and of course James Brown and he,s take on RnB. There were literally thousands of artists , Tamla artists, girl groups west coast sounds they all put their pennyworth in , So I would say it was a landslide of artists recordings, spearheaded by the Obvious better known Artists and recordings rather than a particular record, It all depended as well on the particular Soul Club you were visiting at the time and what you were listening too, different sounds different memories, ML 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dylan Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Not an individual record as such but muscle shoals / fame as a sound and a group of musicians were a huge influence 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Roburt Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) A track that I had on a cheap Marble Arch label UK comp LP from 1966 ... the cut hung around till the 80's and then really took off ... Muscle Shoals at it's best ... this certainly made a big impression on me in 66 ... YOU PEOPLE COME BACK NOW. Edited July 22 by Roburt Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dylan Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Classic deep soul love how the musicians never over power the vocal and really work to carry it. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dylan Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 and fantastic cover version which I heard first and probably prefer 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Geeselad Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 (edited) 10 hours ago, Shinehead said: Maybe the reason for no mention of Otis is because i thought ? the main gist of the thread was records that changed the musical direction of black music in the U.S. example R&b to early soul then the Motown Sound then to more funk and album oriented stuff and seventies sweet soul, not records that had an influence on British listeners. Or maybe I am wrong as usual ?. To be honest I hadn't thought about it there deep initially but I think I was refering to influence on black music progression. As someone has also said, thousands of artists and records have had an impact, but I wanted the thread to look at the most influential, the ones that were copied the most or had the greatest contribution towards the changing sound of the R&B charts. I'm happy to have people contribute examples from the late 50's too but let's cut this at 69 and perhaps we do a 70- till modern day in the future. Thanks for all.the contributions so far some excellent and diverse selections that I'm not familiar and provide real insights Edited July 22 by Geeselad Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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