Northern Soul & MP'3s

[BiG AL]

Now I have been a Club  & Mobile Dj for some 50 years  now and only recently retired from the screen to look after my wife (the big C) unfortunately she lost the battle some 4 years ago. 

My fave music was Old Skool ( Hacienda type) and most defiantly northern soul , i had quite a large (and not cheap collection of it) but when I did a Northern Gig I used a Laptop (well 2 of them 1 as a back up) now i retired some 15 years ago , and only recently started to visit some of the old soul haunts ,and some new as well , I was amazed at the reception I got when i told them I did Dj and used a laptop (even on Northern Soul Gigs) now i had the records ,but due to age and what some of the discs cost , MP'3,s was my go to music format , no worries about stuff getting broke ,scratched ,or stolen ,plus i could edit and enhance tracks and also take the complete collection with me on 1 hard drive , but for some reason now mention laptops and mp3's and your treated like a lepper, was never like that when I was on the circuit, and to be honest early on the dj,s used to make carvers emi disc,s etc  (which are like mp3.s copy's of original discs ,yet nothing is said over this copy technique (and quite a few of the so called A list Dj's are doing it ) and no eyebrows are raised at them in fact they get cheered when playing these cover ups emis and carvers, So come on Guys whats the difference  between doing that and using a laptop both are playing copy's in  a sense same with using a cd if purchased the artists etc are getting there cut , in fact shop bought cd,s are in fact making sure everyone artists etc are getting there fair share of what they are owed

Be interested i seeing and hearing your thoughts on the subject , Oh and please don't just say laptops and mp3's are a no no , explain why that is show ,Oh and again please note that i did own the record or records that I copied over on to my hard drive  

Thanks

Big Al

 

[Woodbutcher]

[Timbo58]

Condolences for your wife Al.

 

It's a fractious topic but I'll tread carefully, as we all have our own preferences & prejudices.

The rare/Northern scene nowadays (perhaps always?) is split into varying degrees from strict original vinyl only right down to digital formats at the opposite ends.

I'd guess 'the circuit' you were on is still there, although it has become much smaller since it's now very fashionable to do the retro thing and boast about being 'vinyl only', possibly to differentiate themselves from the digital offering or because it's what a lot of returning soul fans have grown up with and are familiar with.

On the point of carvers & other bootlegs - its probably a fact that 90% of the audience either don't care or don't know it isn't 'legit'. Some promotors & punters alike will give leeway to big name DJs for playing all sorts of dodgy stuff, some won't. 

I'd say if you want to put events on then go for it, there's an audience for anything and it's undeniable that NS is the new 'thing' with pubs & clubs tripping over themselves to host events to sell their beer.

There is an audience for every type of offering, one might argue that the less 'strict' it is in terms of music format, dancefloor etiquette etc the more accessible it is for newbies/day trippers and the casual music fan.

It's the same as all marketing - target the right audience & good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[davidwapples]

Ovo is there for the purists and for the old school djs to keep them relevant on the scene and to stop younger people taking the dj spots .

Playing oldies means they dont have to buy new records to keep up

 

Vinyl nights are for people who dont care about the history and want to.be djs playing whatever but see them superior to cd  / mp3 playing djs but everything is available on a Carver for 20 quid or so so.they dont have to spend a fortune.

 

 

Mp3 / cds are cheaper / remastered and dont have any background hiss so some say they sound better.

 

It just depends on your view and budget

 

Top 500 on original vinyl = cost of a house

On bootleg / reissue vinyl about £5000 / 7500

On CD probably about £1000 / 1500 if you bought them when they came out maybe less if second hand cds

 

On mp3 collection from ebay / etsy / dodgy soul night trader £10 / 20

 

So it depends on the budget to what format you get the music to play 

 

But in the end they are the same songs

 

[BiG AL]

Many thanks to those who took the time to reply ,much appreciated,

i would say that didn't get many reply's ,however I seem to have got the cream of the crop in the reply's I did get

thank you 

also i have to add (I,m in my seventy's now) I was present at what i would call the birth of northern soul (The Twisted Wheel) and quite a few other clubs and venues ,also the casino ,which brings me to the point of copies/carvers, not gonna name names but one person at the casino was more than 98% responsible for most of the instrumentals (on bootlegs & carvers and stuff  made up from vocals) the crowd so loved there, so that side of the northern soul scene was rife way back then , and a lot of the Djs were playing them to (and these are the so called A list djs at the present )there is one Dj at present (will call him B) who has done lost over the years for routing out rare sounds etc he always gets good ratings and fills venues when booked , BUT he plays emi discs and cover ups (harken back to the old days when djs did this to line there own pockets ,yes its true you wanted to hear the sounds you had to book that certain dj) and that is what DJ "B" is doing today, forget that old  saying , i cover up so it cannot be bootlegged bull ,its to line there own pockets and who's to blame them for looking out for them-selves I don't ,but don't champion the use of vinyl only unless you are going to stick strictly to that rule, but as we all know rules are meant to be bent or broken

hey one never knows maybe Ill bump into one of you on one of my monthly outings to the northern soul  club side of things and we can have a chin wag about better times 

until then, KEEP THE FAITH & REMEMBER NORTHERN SOUL IS NOT JUST FOR CHRISTMAS,"ITS A WAY OF LIFE"

 

oh and as if you lot don't know I see that pop record that n/soulies so love by Frank Wilson, is up for sale yet again on sonic wax site starting bid £150K

BiG AL 

[Woodbutcher]

You'll find that "B" plays exclusive genuine studio acetates not self-cut 'emidiscs' ... 

And most of his so-called cover-ups are in fact untitled/uncredited studio acetates so not cover-ups as such.

I personally , as would most I'd wager , would hate to see his one-offs churned out to the masses as bootlegs or played out at every Mickey Mouse soul night off a laptop.

[Chalky]

I don’t know any A list dj using a laptop at venues, maybe at some divvy club?  Mp3s have never been welcomed whilst I have been going, it has always been about the bit of plastic, even if that is a boot or carver. 

[Kathryn Magson]

10 minutes ago, Chalky said:

I don’t know any A list dj using a laptop at venues, maybe at some divvy club?  Mp3s have never been welcomed whilst I have been going, it has always been about the bit of plastic, even if that is a boot or carver. 

[Leicester Boy]

Firstly sorry about your wife, as someone who has plenty of records but few originals the nights where I hear ovo are as important to me as my team wearing blue.

Different horses and all that but ovo is very important to me and many others. 

Good luck and brave to open that can of worms.

[Happy Feet]

Condolences Big Al on losing your wife , & I hope you're coping it can't be easy .

Regarding your question wether it's ok to play MP3 , or Laptop out and about on the Northern scene as it is , I would say no .

If however in a local pub , party, celebration, etc I don't think anyone would care , unless requested otherwise by the host..

I understand your point regarding all the emidiscs ,not acetates played at venues like WC etc , in years gone past, but the purists wouldn't and shouldn't have to listen to a totally bootlegged format either, hopefully those nights are gone forever .

An MP3  only release cut to a carver or emidisc , or even a cd only track is a tricky one , otherwise how would it get a play if at all in today's venues , still a bootleg , or cheating ? 

During Lockdown there was a fear that we wouldn't ever get the chance to hear soul music played , at venues on vinyl again , now we have let's make the most of it , while we can .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BiG AL]

Hi First Off and I should have done this before posting , let me introduce myself to the members , been a dj since the early seventy's working for the Roundtree's group of (restaurants/clubs/hotels,)company's ,in Manchester much later going mobile as a side line and near to retirement working for entertainment agency's. So a BIG HI to all.

now with the post seems i opened a can of worms or so a few have said ,but i wasn't really meaning to do that ,i was just asking how and why the attitude to Djs (Northern soul & Motown) using laptops and compression software has changed so much , see back in the day I did soul ,northern and Motown gigs with a laptop and everybody had a great time and there was little if not no animosity towards myself for using a laptop? see as a mobile dj carting loads of records around was hard work ,then cds came into being and wow could carry a whole collection in a alloy case, then yes you get it compression software (ill cal it that as the is quite a few types to choose from)and your complete collection of all types of music ,fit on 1 or 2 hard drives ,so had to go along with that, you do a gig get a request and before they can get to the floor or seat its playing for them ,what a great idea and a boon for the dj !

i can understand with Motown and northern soul some resentment from the collectors , but you have to understand ,company's like gold mine cds ,did an awful lot for northern soul ,bringing the hard and impossible tracks to a digital format for all to enjoy ,in fact the must have brought thousands upon thousands of new collector's and northern soul fans to the clan,and also gave those less fortunate a chance to own that rare track for themselves ,that they did not have a hope in hell of owning , so gold mine did northern soul and the fans a great service (by putting out digital COPIES OF THESE RARE AND HARD TO FINF TRACKS)

ok so jumping forward you are a dj and a collector of super rare and hard to find tracks , on say acetate of lp tracks ep tracks etc , do you really want to tour the circuit with these rare items ,risk loss damage degradation of the tracks using others untested equipment? my guess i NO YOU DONT so what do you do ,especially if your job depends on playing these tracks to an audience, *YOU MAKE A COPY of them put on a carver or emi  disc dependant on who you know ,and those are the discs you cart round with you and those are the discs you play to your fans (keeping the original's safe & sound at home) you then call these discs cover ups ,nobody is going to be any the wiser as they are covered up false name false title no label , but to all intents and scrutiny they are copies ,be it in plastic digital cd ,compressed on laptop or vinyl  ,all are copies , so why single out a certain format ,if you have the original what is the problem with playing the copy? ,

no yes i fully agree that no tom dich or harry should just roll up with a laptop full of compressed music and just start playing it ,yes that is a big no no ,but should they own the vinyl ,i see no problem with them looking after there hard earned and expensive vinyl and leaving it at home,do you?

i on the other hand  have seen the above * in person and know quite a few djs who have and still do it , and im going back to a time when there wasn't any A list djs ,they were just Dj's nothing more, but as stated for me,my dj days are long gone as is most of my vinyl collection apart from quite a few 70 and 80 12" singles i used to play and are now along with some old northern soul lps gathering dust in the loft , I keep saying ill get them down and sort for selling but just don't have the heart to do so at the moment, but just don't knock the young ones who are coming into the northern soul scene as they are the future and they may not be able to acquire or afford rare vinyl,so as are you have no doubt guessed it  for them yes digital MP4s now where you can actually get see your artist singing that great hard to find rare track .

thanks to all who have taken the time to read /answer this post  

[Kenb]

must say i'm a bit lost on the time-line here...

you say "Now I have been a Club  & Mobile Dj for some 50 years  now and only recently retired ...

Surely you must have been using vinyl at some stage during the 50 years. MP3's (Post 1995 at least i think), Laptops (just about the start of the 80's ( if you could afford one).

[BiG AL]

Sorry KenB, ignore the first Now ,its the way us old folks talk (like when we say to the grandkids Now, listen here.)

and yes i have used all 4 forms of music in my carrier Vinyl, Cd's, Digital (laptop), and Live acts etc

if you go to my second post its all outlined there im more detail

sorry if you misunderstood or I confused you , I sometimes confuse myself lately ?

BiG AL

[Shinehead]

To me the whole point of going out to venues was to listen to records that were played that I could not hear anywhere else and did not own and put together by a forward thinking dj with a ear to the dance floor.

Going out to hear music played off a laptop, memory stick is not what northern soul is about,  ok for the nightclub knocking music out for the punters on a weekend.

I have embraced technology for my home listening but for the soul events vinyl only for me.

 

[Leicester Boy]

26 minutes ago, Shinehead said:

To me the whole point of going out to venues was to listen to records that were played that I could not hear anywhere else and did not own and put together by a forward thinking dj with a ear to the dance floor.

Going out to hear music played off a laptop, memory stick is not what northern soul is about,  ok for the nightclub knocking music out for the punters on a weekend.

I have embraced technology for my home listening but for the soul events vinyl only for me.

 

This

[Chalky]

I don't know where these "soul, northern and Motown" nights are that you used MP3s.  I can only imagine they were nights in hotels etc, not aimed generally at the scene itself.  Even the mainstream ev ents use vinyl.

Welcome btw and condolences on the loss of your wife.

Edited May 26 by Chalky

[Modularman]

On 24/05/2024 at 13:37, Woodbutcher said:

You'll find that "B" plays exclusive genuine studio acetates not self-cut 'emidiscs' ... 

And most of his so-called cover-ups are in fact untitled/uncredited studio acetates so not cover-ups as such.

I personally , as would most I'd wager , would hate to see his one-offs churned out to the masses as bootlegs or played out at every Mickey Mouse soul night off a laptop.

Surely he transfers his one-off acetates to vinyl format though? Acetates have a limited playback, after 25 plays the lacquer could be down to bare metal and the music lost forever?

[Woodbutcher]

6 minutes ago, Modularman said:

Surely he transfers his one-off acetates to vinyl format though? Acetates have a limited playback, after 25 plays the lacquer could be down to bare metal and the music lost forever?

No , they're a lot more durable than you might think , my Hayes Cotton - Black Wings acetate still plays fine after hundreds of plays since it was cut in '66 ...