Andrew ' Mike ' Terry - bari sax break...or not?

[Robbk]

Rather than trying to distill the long essay down to some basic points, I've decided to give you a specific example of the type of explanation of one of the possible participation scenarios I might have used in my answer to your question. Here is a general description of Johnny Terry's projects, in which he acted as a Middle Man:

Some of you Detroit Soul fans might know his name from producer credits on Soul records recorded in Detroit, but released on New York record labels, and wondered how that came about.  Working out of New York in the early to later mid 1960s, singing and recording with The Drifters, he knew a lot of people in that city's music industry (musicians, record label owners, and songwriters).  Apparently, he had connections in Detroit, as well.  I don't know if he was a cousin of Andrew (Mike ) Terry, as Winford (Johnny) was raised in Washington, D.C.  But Mike arranged a few sessions on Johnny Terry's recording sessions in Detroit.  Starting in 1965, when his time with Drifters was winding down (he left them in 1966), he started getting involved in producing records (on the executive  producer level), mainly as a middle man, getting talented artists or independent record producers paired up with recording session producers, and/or record labels that wanted to press and distribute their records. 

His main Detroit project financier was Don Montgomery, who owned The Travler Motel.  Travler Music Publishing Co. was either set up by Montgomery alone, or a partnership of Montgomery and John (Winford) Terry, to publish their projects' songs.  Together, they partnered with Don (Juan) Mancha, in deals made with New York's Scepter-Wand/Garrison Records, in which they used Mike Theodore and Dennis Coffey, or Mike Terry to arrange their songs in Detroit recording sessions.  Johnny Terry must have gotten to know Scepter-Wand's Florence Greenberg through Brill Building song writers that wrote for The Drifters AND for Scepter-Wand's artists, and heard, through them that that label was looking to lease already recorded songs from independent producers for label/and record distribution deals.  Some other Travler projects' sessions were produced by Johnny Nash(Johnny Daye on Jomada), or Johnny Terry and Juggy Murry in New York, with New York's Arthur Jenkins or Detroit's James Bryant arranging(Betty Green). 

So you can see that many different people, who provided different services along the track of a single record's production, marketing, and distribution, end up receiving portions of the records' sales revenue.  I was told, back in the '60s by an industry insider, that Johnny Terry was not present at all the Detroit recording sessions.  But, he got credited as co-producer ("executive producer") along with Don Mancha, and even Don Montgomery(on a couple), because he was the project initiator, and without his connections, the record would have existed.  I believe the co-producer credit for "Montgomery" on The Honey Bees' Garrison record stands for financier, Don Montgomery as "Executive producer for financing the project, rather than singer, Jack Montgomery(AKA Marvin Jones), whose stage name was named after Marvin Gaye and Don Montgomery).  Mancha got co-producer credits, because he ran the sessions, and brought in Mike Theodore and Dennis Coffey, or Mike Terry, or Bob Hamilton(Taurus & Leo) as asst. producers or arrangers.  Johnny Terry also initiated a few projects whose sessions were run in New York, and picked up by New York Soul labels, like Juggy Murry's Sue(Crackerjack) Records.  Murry had also leased a 1963 Detroit production by Fred Brown and Joe Hunter from their Mickay's Records (by Detroit's first Dramatics group).

Several of these independent players in the recording/record-producing industry play multiple roles to varying degrees on different record projects, and, thus, get differing cuts of the revenue pie, from project-to project.  Even inside the major record labels, the cut of the revenue differs, depended upon whether the contributor was a full-time employee, or a pay per-service contractor, based on the contract for that project, or having a contract for providing a single service, or set of services at an agreed upon regular fee for each service, or an employee with a regular salary, plus a contract for production services on each in-house record project.  So, most projects have a different mix of contractors paid for services, and different groups of outside services provided by one or more contractors.  It gets very complicated.

Songwriters get paid individually, for writing the words and music.  If a record label uses their song, they each got an upfront advance on their upcoming royalties from record sales.  Which would be taken from them from the first sales, until fully paid off.  I seem to remember their usual cut was 3% for previously successful writers.  But, I think many record companies, who published the songs through their own in-house publishing companies, sometimes offered only 1 or 2% in their contract, because of the greater risk of getting no sales.  And those writers were generally forced to accept, or not get their music on record to get public exposure.  Usually the beginning writers (often teenaged group member singers) didn't have the cash to pay for the set-up of a music publishing business, and to pay the annual BMI or ASCAP member fees.  Singers got fees agreed to by contract.  I'm pretty sure they varied according to the current artists' popularity.  Arranger and Producer fees varied, depending upon the relationship of the service provider to the record company, and the demand for the outside provider's services. 

Different cuts of a record's sales revenues depended upon how many people were involved.  If there were more middlemen (e.g. outside services were needed that are often provided by company staffs in larger labels), the cut for the record company diminished, but the royalties of the writers and singing artists, or instrumental featured artists (as opposed to session musicians (who were usually payed flat fees per session)) were the same in either situation.  And, of course financiers got a % of the revenue  based on the % of project costs they financed, possibly including recording session, pressing fees, marketing, and distribution costs.  I think record projects varied so much in their detailed structure, that trying to place industry norm figures to given services for any decade or 5-year period might be misleading due to so many different possible combinations of services provided by inside and outside providers.   Given the fact that having to pay several professional fees to outside contractors for different services might get quite costly because those fees are reflective of those contractors' own businesses' overheads. 

So, we can understand how Berry Gordy's Motown's assembly-line structure, and soon after starting to roll, paying mostly flat salaries to non-artists and key musicians, really cut down production costs, to end up bringing in larger profits.  But the major national record companies (RCA, Columbia, ABC/Paramount, Capitol, Warner Bros., United Artists, Mercury, etc.)  with hundreds of employees in regional offices, even though containing more of the recording and record industry services in-house, might have been less efficient overall, and more costly to operate, due to too many employees with overlap in duties, and most employees having far less stake and participation in their company's success and profits.

 

Edited March 6 by Robbk

[David Meikle]

Detroit fans will enjoy this Robb. Hope you can give us some more in your own time. 

 

[Ady Croasdell]

On 04/03/2024 at 17:31, David Meikle said:

Thanks Robb

Money changing hands in the making of a recording has always intrigued me.

Can you breakdown for me who gets paid - from lyrics being written down, to a record going on sale in the shops. Probably a big story but I’d love to know.

For example what happens after someone scribbles down a few lyrics in a bar/pub one night. No money has been incurred in the making of a record at this point.

What is next in the process and who gets paid?

I’ve never quite understood why, for example, some “weak” lyrics like in case of the Beatles “She Loves You” can make the lyric writer lots of money over many (70?) years.

And why would Mike Terry (for example) require a producer when he has all the skills to write charts, add the “sweeteners” etc.

Bobby Eli told me once that (he thought) the arranger was the most important person on a recording.

Yet he gets a fraction of the income that (in the above example) the “crass” lyric writer got.

Hope you can help.

David

 

 

 

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The lyrics to She Loves You were perfect for the song and the times. Get Dylan to write them and the recording would be worse. 
Music or lyrics, a songwriter gets nothing for writing a song (unless they’re staff writers on a wage or get advances by against future sales) until the first cent/penny has been generated because of it.

[Ady Croasdell]

On 04/03/2024 at 19:43, Chalky said:

Interesting reading and again some excellent information.

All apart from my bit about the ‘I Can’t Hide It’ demo in Dave Hamilton’s tapesss c- it was a different but similar song when I checked. Nice demo of ‘My Sweet Baby’ on there though 

[Chalky]

6 hours ago, Ady Croasdell said:

All apart from my bit about the ‘I Can’t Hide It’ demo in Dave Hamilton’s tapesss c- it was a different but similar song when I checked. Nice demo of ‘My Sweet Baby’ on there though 

The topic made you look though and find the demo