hey all - was out sat and heard this superb northern track - only lyrics i recall were - "Is it jane or is it me" - the is it jane line was repeated twice before 'or is it me'

a long shot i know but i'd be happy if any of you knowledgeable folk could help

 

doh - i forget to put the rest of the lyrics

why don't you ask her, ask her right now - "Is it jane or is it me"

  On 18/01/2024 at 14:55, Trev Thomas said:

 

That's a great spot

im glad joegibbs asked this question duly, because i have this on a as i am lead to believe reissue/boot / and a kent 7 from 2009 my question without jumping the thread seeing as it has been answered is was this ever released as an original usa copy cheers 

  On 18/01/2024 at 18:23, Steviehay said:

im glad joegibbs asked this question duly, because i have this on a as i am lead to believe reissue/boot / and a kent 7 from 2009 my question without jumping the thread seeing as it has been answered is was this ever released as an original usa copy cheers 

No. First on Kent 6T's 100Club 19th Anniversary. Then on Kent Town and finally came that American boot / reissue or whatever on Golden State Records (USA pressing is my guest).

  On 18/01/2024 at 18:30, Tlscapital said:

No. First on Kent 6T's 100Club 19th Anniversary. Then on Kent Town and finally came that American boot / reissue or whatever on Golden State Records (USA pressing is my guest).

ahh that would explain the 100 club never been there yet thanks for clarification on the boot /or whatever it is 

  On 18/01/2024 at 18:30, Tlscapital said:

No. First on Kent 6T's 100Club 19th Anniversary. Then on Kent Town and finally came that American boot / reissue or whatever on Golden State Records (USA pressing is my guest).

golden state boot was around first, originated from las vegas

  On 19/01/2024 at 06:02, Trev Thomas said:

golden state boot was around first, originated from las vegas

Unless you have proof of that I have never heard or seen that Las Vegas pressing before 2000 +.

The SF TKO's was due on a Kent CD compilation (?) after it got it's release on the Kent 45 in 1998.

On 45cat.com it states 2001 for that Golden State release. Along with the other pink Golden State...

Edited January 19, 20241 yr by Tlscapital

  On 19/01/2024 at 06:02, Trev Thomas said:

golden state boot was around first, originated from las vegas

Don't think it was, I only saw it after the Kent 45.  Remember pointing it out to Ady.

  On 19/01/2024 at 06:02, Trev Thomas said:

golden state boot was around first, originated from las vegas

That's how I remember it.

That Las Vegas guy is well known, I just can't remember his name. He also used to sell those boots of "Love Slipped Through My Fingers" by Towanda Barnes. He had those Kissi Jacob's boots as well on Blackjack. Some of his sales were definite originals but he had a lot of remakes/boots. He had Frederick Hymes III on Fab Vegas. Never sure about those because he seemed to have them listed regularly for under $100. Although that was before it was really getting talked about very much or played out.

Edited January 19, 20241 yr by Solidsoul

  On 19/01/2024 at 17:07, Solidsoul said:

That's how I remember it.

That Las Vegas guy is well known, I just can't remember his name. He also used to sell those boots of "Love Slipped Through My Fingers" by Towanda Barnes. He had those Kissi Jacob's boots as well on Blackjack. Some of his sales were definite originals but he had a lot of remakes/boots. He had Frederick Hymes III on Fab Vegas. Never sure about those because he seemed to have them listed regularly for under $100. Although that was before it was really getting talked about very much or played out.

He had NOS multiples in variable quantities of originals and bootlegs that seemed rather recent then. Most of those bootlegs were poor sounding and looked kinda cheap. But not all aimed to the soul market with some doo-wopp and harmony vocals in there too. More aiming at an American market somehow.

  On 19/01/2024 at 17:07, Solidsoul said:

That's how I remember it.

That Los Vegas guy is well known, I just can't remember his name. He also used to sell those boots of Love Slipped Through My Fingers by Towanda Barnes. He had those Kissi Jacob's boots as well. Some of his sales where originals but he had a lot of remakes/boots. He had Frederick Hymes III on Fab Vegas. Never sure about those because he seemed to have them listed regularly for under  $100.

hi name was joe gitannio (or something like that) , he had all the unsold prix stock royal esquires , fred hymes etc, as well as boots of towanda barnes , ringleaders, and the golden state stuff, he also used to boot a lot of doo wop stuff, he used to sell on ebay and shifted stuff through rich rosens shop, I got a copy of the san francisco tko's when I was out there in 1998, he was also behind the toby bullard - so glad i'm in love boot on flodavier, think he was also behind the johnny watson - its better to cry scam

The unsold stock haul was first and yes sold via Rich Rosen in 1997/1998. Few months later Rich started to list these infamous pressings of Kissi Jacobs, Johnny Watson and probably many others I can't remember right now.

The Ringleaders, Towanda Barnes and San Francisco TKOs bootlegs turned much later.

  On 18/01/2024 at 14:46, joegibbs said:

hey all - was out sat and heard this superb northern track - only lyrics i recall were - "Is it jane or is it me" - the is it jane line was repeated twice before 'or is it me'

a long shot i know but i'd be happy if any of you knowledgeable folk could help

As english isn't my first language I'm prone to mishear english lyrics. Like you it sounds like "Is it jane" to me. But it wouldn't make sense. Anyone care to explain who's Jane?

I had Fredrick Hymes lll and Royal Esquires from a guy of EBay who went by the name Brooklyn Born.                 Got both for about $100. I did think the Royal Esquires was a bit flexi but Fredrick Hymes seemed great. 

  On 19/01/2024 at 22:57, Mick Boyle said:

I had Fredrick Hymes lll and Royal Esquires from a guy of EBay who went by the name Brooklyn Born.                 Got both for about $100. I did think the Royal Esquires was a bit flexi but Fredrick Hymes seemed great. 

thats right brooklyn born joe gittiano and his wife mimi

  On 19/01/2024 at 22:09, Benji said:

The unsold stock haul was first and yes sold via Rich Rosen in 1997/1998. Few months later Rich started to list these infamous pressings of Kissi Jacobs, Johnny Watson and probably many others I can't remember right now.

The Ringleaders, Towanda Barnes and San Francisco TKOs bootlegs turned much later.

well, he certainly had the tko's in 1998 because thats when i was over there

Honestly, I don't believe you. Maybe you got some dates mixed up.

Make up your mind was first as 100 club 45 in September 1998. Do you really think it's possible they got hold of the 100 club 45, dubbed it for their bootleg in the same year? Highly unlikely.

  On 19/01/2024 at 23:07, Trev Thomas said:

thats right brooklyn born joe gittiano and his wife mimi

Brooklyn Born is Rich Rosen.

Ding ding. Round one. The 100 Club record was an unreleased cut. Oddly enough it credits Golden State on the label. I don’t know anything about Golden State but maybe Ady C could enlighten us. The record must have been dubbed from the 100 Club 45 or a CD that followed it. The Las Vegas merchants are old-timers who had both rare records and bootleg supplies. I think the name that came up earlier is actually Joe Giattino - I bought something from him via the mail and he didn’t send the change. I also bought the Johnny Watson on Valise from him before it was exposed as a massive scam. His eBay sales are usually dominated by bootlegs although I would add the Towanda Barnes Love Slipped is of a decent quality. Richie Rosen had the Frederick Hymes quantity but I regretfully didn’t buy as the label looked weird being typed - my oversight unfortunately. He had the unissued Ringleaders at $200 but I passed on this. He had George Morton in quantity and we all paid through the nose for this one. There’s an old thread on Richie Rosen on Soul-Source that makes for interesting reading. I would strongly advise any readers of this to steer well clear of these New Yorkers if heading to Las Vegas...

  On 20/01/2024 at 00:41, Frankie Crocker said:

Ding ding. Round one. The 100 Club record was an unreleased cut. Oddly enough it credits Golden State on the label. I don’t know anything about Golden State but maybe Ady C could enlighten us. The record must have been dubbed from the 100 Club 45 or a CD that followed it...

...I would add the Towanda Barnes Love Slipped is of a decent quality...

Facts worth checking with Ady indeed. Although the Kent 19th Birthday 45 only got given away in September 1998 at the 100 Club.

If it was dubbed to make the Golden State 45 then it would have to have travel fast to the Nevada desert in Las Vegas to be released in 1998 as Trev Thomas on here states that he got his Golden State copy in 1998 from that seller while in Las Vegas.

Plus the Golden State 45 has a B-side attributed to the SF TKO's too. That I've never heard FWIW. Could the Golden State predate the Kent actually ? Wait and see...

As for the Towanda Barnes (Ohio Players) 'love slips through my fingers' 45 I must admit that the friend who I bought it for then was rather disappointed in regard of it's "quality".

While we compare it the Trip Ohio Players LP I was in awe as to how 'tiny' the Towanda Barnes sounded in comparison. With low gain in playback and so no bass, weak mids and sizzling highs. Even though its was obviously dubbed from the Ohio Players LP....

Poor to no mastering job there. I can't say for his other 'bootleg' materials so would care to know how the SF TKO's sound in comparison the the Kent releases. As for the Frederick Hymes I think it sounds rather good if ever it was 'manufactured' by 'them'.

Edited January 20, 20241 yr by Tlscapital

  On 19/01/2024 at 23:10, Trev Thomas said:

well, he certainly had the tko's in 1998 because thats when i was over there

Would you know what time of the year in 1998 that was ?

  On 20/01/2024 at 00:04, Benji said:

Honestly, I don't believe you. Maybe you got some dates mixed up.

Make up your mind was first as 100 club 45 in September 1998. Do you really think it's possible they got hold of the 100 club 45, dubbed it for their bootleg in the same year? Highly unlikely.

Brooklyn Born is Rich Rosen.

i personally couldn't give a toss whether you believe me or not, i've not got any dates mixed up, we were in vegas in 1998 for my mothers 70th birthday, i'm hardly going to forget that am i, tell you what, i'll dig out my old passport and post up scans of the customs stamps, brooklyn born was joe and mimi giattino's ebay user name , not rich rosen, he sold out of his wax tracks store, 

I dont think for one minute that it was dubbed from the kent anniversary 45, rich rosens tentacles spread far and wide, probabaly dubbed from a tape / acetate that he'd aquired, a lot of rosens stock and memrobilia in his store has come from people in the entertainment industry so who knows.this of course is assuming it was rich rosen who did them, i would personally think the source was giattiano who also had far reaching tentacles,

Edited January 20, 20241 yr by Trev Thomas
addition

  On 20/01/2024 at 00:41, Frankie Crocker said:

Ding ding. Round one. The 100 Club record was an unreleased cut. Oddly enough it credits Golden State on the label. I don’t know anything about Golden State but maybe Ady C could enlighten us. The record must have been dubbed from the 100 Club 45 or a CD that followed it. The Las Vegas merchants are old-timers who had both rare records and bootleg supplies. I think the name that came up earlier is actually Joe Giattino - I bought something from him via the mail and he didn’t send the change. I also bought the Johnny Watson on Valise from him before it was exposed as a massive scam. His eBay sales are usually dominated by bootlegs although I would add the Towanda Barnes Love Slipped is of a decent quality. Richie Rosen had the Frederick Hymes quantity but I regretfully didn’t buy as the label looked weird being typed - my oversight unfortunately. He had the unissued Ringleaders at $200 but I passed on this. He had George Morton in quantity and we all paid through the nose for this one. There’s an old thread on Richie Rosen on Soul-Source that makes for interesting reading. I would strongly advise any readers of this to steer well clear of these New Yorkers if heading to Las Vegas...

rich rosens store is well worth a visit if you're in vegas, granted he's a crazy old fuc@@r, and his prices are well over the top but, it does make for an interesting experience

Went to his store/unit years ago. I decided not to give him a single penny of my money. Over priced, grumpy and rude. 

  On 20/01/2024 at 13:25, Mick Boyle said:

 grumpy and rude. 

This seems to be the normal manner for USA record shop owners. 😠😤

Edited January 20, 20241 yr by Solidsoul

  On 20/01/2024 at 04:57, Tlscapital said:

Facts worth checking with Ady indeed. Although the Kent 19th Birthday 45 only got given away in September 1998 at the 100 Club.

If it was dubbed to make the Golden State 45 then it would have to have travel fast to the Nevada desert in Las Vegas to be released in 1998 as Trev Thomas on here states that he got his Golden State copy in 1998 from that seller while in Las Vegas.

Plus the Golden State 45 has a B-side attributed to the SF TKO's too. That I've never heard FWIW. Could the Golden State predate the Kent actually ? Wait and see...

As for the Towanda Barnes (Ohio Players) 'love slips through my fingers' 45 I must admit that the friend who I bought it for then was rather disappointed in regard of it's "quality".

While we compare it the Trip Ohio Players LP I was in awe as to how 'tiny' the Towanda Barnes sounded in comparison. With low gain in playback and so no bass, weak mids and sizzling highs. Even though its was obviously dubbed from the Ohio Players LP....

Poor to no mastering job there. I can't say for his other 'bootleg' materials so would care to know how the SF TKO's sound in comparison the the Kent releases. As for the Frederick Hymes I think it sounds rather good if ever it was 'manufactured' by 'them'.

Although the 45 was a giveaway in September 1998, I suspect Ady would have been spinning it in 1997 and 1996 etc, probably as a cut taken from a master tape. In any case, the song would have existed in some format prior to 9/98 and the LV pirates could have stumbled across it having been in the industry since the Woppy Doo days. Although the 45 was pressed for the anniversary, perhaps even in August, copies could have easily gone walkabout from the pressing plant months prior to release.

My copy of Towanda Barnes came from John Manship and it sounds better than Sam Williams. Maybe the LV pirates booted copies from a first-issue?

The comments re Rosen’s emporium are spot on. I visited the store on many trips and had to bite my tongue too often for comfort. I managed to snag a few bargains but generally paid through the nose for bulk of what I left with.

It would be good to know the real story behind Frederick Hymes - was this ever issued by a bona fide label to be bought in stores, or a LV tailor-made for the rare soul scene? I first saw it in Rosen’s shop but it looked dodgy - given these guys have access to a pressing plant, they could have easily manufactured it from scratch QED...

  On 20/01/2024 at 16:14, Frankie Crocker said:

Although the 45 was a giveaway in September 1998, I suspect Ady would have been spinning it in 1997 and 1996 etc, probably as a cut taken from a master tape. 

It definitely was, it was a regular play on acetate in Ady’s sets, everyone guessed the anniversary single would be the unreleased Ben E King and I was really chuffed when it was the unreleased TKO’s

  On 20/01/2024 at 16:14, Frankie Crocker said:

Although the 45 was a giveaway in September 1998, I suspect Ady would have been spinning it in 1997 and 1996 etc, probably as a cut taken from a master tape. In any case, the song would have existed in some format prior to 9/98 and the LV pirates could have stumbled across it having been in the industry since the Woppy Doo days. Although the 45 was pressed for the anniversary, perhaps even in August, copies could have easily gone walkabout from the pressing plant months prior to release.

My copy of Towanda Barnes came from John Manship and it sounds better than Sam Williams. Maybe the LV pirates booted copies from a first-issue?

OK, so played by Ady on a carver a year or so before the Kent birthday giveaway 45. As I said the Towanda Barnes was dubbed from the 1976 Ohio Players 16 Greatest Hits Trip LP that sounds good.

Edited January 20, 20241 yr by Tlscapital

  On 19/01/2024 at 22:42, Benji said:

As english isn't my first language I'm prone to mishear english lyrics. Like you it sounds like "Is it jane" to me. But it wouldn't make sense. Anyone care to explain who's Jane?

Your'e not the only one who's confused. The singer sounds more like a male but is female so she is asking her man "Is it Jane or is it me? I don't know if the photo on the YouTube is the group but they have two vocalists, which adds to the confusion.

  On 20/01/2024 at 17:14, Tlscapital said:

OK, so played by Ady on a carver a year or so before the Kent birthday giveaway 45. As I said the toward Barnes was dubbed from the Ohio Players Trip LP that sounds good.

Ady's sleeve notes for  the Kent CD- 100 Club Anniversary Singles says of Make Up Your Mind "for some years it must have been the biggest sound down there"

  On 20/01/2024 at 16:14, Frankie Crocker said:

Although the 45 was a giveaway in September 1998, I suspect Ady would have been spinning it in 1997 and 1996 etc, probably as a cut taken from a master tape. In any case, the song would have existed in some format prior to 9/98 and the LV pirates could have stumbled across it having been in the industry since the Woppy Doo days. Although the 45 was pressed for the anniversary, perhaps even in August, copies could have easily gone walkabout from the pressing plant months prior to release.

My copy of Towanda Barnes came from John Manship and it sounds better than Sam Williams. Maybe the LV pirates booted copies from a first-issue?

The comments re Rosen’s emporium are spot on. I visited the store on many trips and had to bite my tongue too often for comfort. I managed to snag a few bargains but generally paid through the nose for bulk of what I left with.

It would be good to know the real story behind Frederick Hymes - was this ever issued by a bona fide label to be bought in stores, or a LV tailor-made for the rare soul scene? I first saw it in Rosen’s shop but it looked dodgy - given these guys have access to a pressing plant, they could have easily manufactured it from scratch QED...

I tended to avoid Rich having bumped into him at the odd record fair.

However, in the area, myself and Scal [on here] dropped in at his Stroudsburg place sometime early 90's without realising it was him. He might have recently moved.

He was surprisingly convivial and pointed us to an outside shed telling us anything in there was $2. He more or less stuck to his word only charging us $5 for multiple copies of James Bounty.

Got quite a stack off him. 100+ easily. Scal has a better memory than me.

Highlight was Rich and Ed Kaplan having a massive barney outside whilst we were going through the shed.

IF...(i'm not 100% sure), Penny Lewis and James Aaron were in the TKO's, then i do believe Penny went on to become a Realtor, and James did lead vocals with Sonny Lewis & the Movement at a lunchtime Soul and Blues Festival In the Park ( Concourse, Golden Gate Park) in 1971.

thank you so much for the info mates - i greatly appreciate it

  On 19/01/2024 at 22:42, Benji said:

As english isn't my first language I'm prone to mishear english lyrics. Like you it sounds like "Is it jane" to me. But it wouldn't make sense. Anyone care to explain who's Jane?

I've got no evidence to support this but I think the lyrics "Is it Jane" sorta dominates the song over the lyrics of the title "Make up your mind" and this confusion helped the track stay un-released until Ady started to play it down the 100 Club.

Derek

  On 08/02/2024 at 00:17, Derek Pearson said:

I've got no evidence to support this but I think the lyrics "Is it Jane" sorta dominates the song over the lyrics of the title "Make up your mind" and this confusion helped the track stay un-released until Ady started to play it down the 100 Club.

Derek

 

  On 20/01/2024 at 18:45, Modernsoulsucks said:

I tended to avoid Rich having bumped into him at the odd record fair.

However, in the area, myself and Scal [on here] dropped in at his Stroudsburg place sometime early 90's without realising it was him. He might have recently moved.

He was surprisingly convivial and pointed us to an outside shed telling us anything in there was $2. He more or less stuck to his word only charging us $5 for multiple copies of James Bounty.

Got quite a stack off him. 100+ easily. Scal has a better memory than me.

Highlight was Rich and Ed Kaplan having a massive barney outside whilst we were going through the shed.

Scal tells me it was Rich and Fred Kape from Long Island.

Love this