BBC Radio Four Woman's Hour: Northern Soul feature

[Jstarr]

On 24/01/2024 at 12:36, Timbo58 said:

When this sort of social media 'look at me I'm doing Northern soul' dance routine was first seen on YouTube etc, it was felt by many, including me, to be 'ok in small doses' or 'Ok for the kids to be doing it'. 

Perhaps we all naively hoped they'd either move onto something else or be encouraged and encourage others into the scene proper, for some time that appeared to be the case.

I wish it had stayed that way as surely that's where the 'as long as they're having fun' statement was fair?

Unfortunately it's where the mainstream national media latched onto this 'new thing' and took those specific creators absolutely seriously, it has crossed the Rubicon.

 

The irony is, that if the genuine respect of the rest of the real rare soul scene were rewarded in hard currency, these people now declaring themselves as spokespeople for the rest of us wouldn't have enough to buy a cup of tea.

 

 

What flavour Rubicon Tim? Sticky feet crossing the Rubicon. 

 

 

 

 

[Timbo58]

That’s what you get for skipping history class Jase!

[Jstarr]

2 hours ago, Timbo58 said:

That’s what you get for skipping history class Jase!

[Paul-s]

On 24/01/2024 at 13:36, Timbo58 said:

When this sort of social media 'look at me I'm doing Northern soul' dance routine was first seen on YouTube etc, it was felt by many, including me, to be 'ok in small doses' or 'Ok for the kids to be doing it'. 

Perhaps we all naively hoped they'd either move onto something else or be encouraged and encourage others into the scene proper, for some time that appeared to be the case.

I wish it had stayed that way as surely that's where the 'as long as they're having fun' statement was fair?

Unfortunately it's where the mainstream national media latched onto this 'new thing' and took those specific creators absolutely seriously, it has crossed the Rubicon.

 

The irony is, that if the genuine respect of the rest of the real rare soul scene were rewarded in hard currency, these people now declaring themselves as spokespeople for the rest of us wouldn't have enough to buy a cup of tea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

CHARLY RECORDS - List Levanna as the Artist, f--k the artists is the message: 

"Influencer, dancer, promoter and celebutante Levanna (aka “Northern Soul Girl”) lends here DJ skills and magnetic personality to a stunning new ‘rare soul’ series honed from the Charly vaults. Features 16 dance floor favourites from the home of the young souls of Britain and elevated by the country’s top Northern Soul disrupter. "The album name relays the good times and memories that are made when you are into Northern Soul. The feeling of being completely free" Levanna Album Promotion.

Another exclusive from Charly Records."

 

To me this is just totally narcissistic and an obvious display of a lack of respect for the musicians and the scene. 

Levanna (real name Abby) and her mum (EVE) gave up paid work to focus on this venture (capital) and they seem to be prepared to stomp all over the musicians, and working class roots and historical roots of the scene, in a desperate attempt to cash in at any cost. I certainly don't have a "they are just having fun' attitude towards it. 

 

[Baz Atkinson]

Watch it Paul you’ll be getting letters from corporate lawyers next lol . Is anyone surprised by this ? When I first saw the Bristol Scene I thought good on them  for getting into the music . . This saddens me however ! 
This ain’t good on many levels , why is her name next to Otis Clays on the playlist ? 
It’s  almost passé now to challenge stuff like this because there has been so much rubbish and mediocrity thrown down our throats for so long that all the bullshit and cashing in is as embedded in the scene as  much as everything else ? 
I don’t know what a northern soul disrupter is perhaps someone could tell me ? 
I miss the scene how it was but i will be dammed if I partake now , I respect immensely those that still go out and seek the venues that try to stay true to turning up records etc but there are few and far between that’s the records not the Venues there still good people out there however.

Charley have looked at the landscape and embraced a different narrative that is a million miles away from the speed rinsed coolness we we’re brought  up  with . As one of the biggest licensors of music perhaps the artistes families will benefit in some form , I really hope so ? Wonder what the split is however ? 

 

Edited January 30 by Baz Atkinson

[Peter99]

7 hours ago, Baz Atkinson said:

Watch it Paul you’ll be getting letters from corporate lawyers next lol . Is anyone surprised by this ? When I first saw the Bristol Scene I thought good on them  for getting into the music . . This saddens me however ! 
This ain’t good on many levels , why is her name next to Otis Clays on the playlist ? 
It’s  almost passé now to challenge stuff like this because there has been so much rubbish and mediocrity thrown down our throats for so long that all the bullshit and cashing in is as embedded in the scene as  much as everything else ? 
I don’t know what a northern soul disrupter is perhaps someone could tell me ? 
I miss the scene how it was but i will be dammed if I partake now , I respect immensely those that still go out and seek the venues that try to stay true to turning up records etc but there are few and far between that’s the records not the Venues there still good people out there however.

Charley have looked at the landscape and embraced a different narrative that is a million miles away from the speed rinsed coolness we we’re brought  up  with . As one of the biggest licensors of music perhaps the artistes families will benefit in some form , I really hope so ? Wonder what the split is however ? 

 

I think that's a fair assessment Baz, and probably just about where I am, as an old man who started my journey with the music since I was a youngster, attending my first all niter in 1978. Of course many people were involved much earlier than I.

Your comment regarding Otis Clay particularly resonates with me; I was only speaking about hm and his wonderful musical legacy yesterday. In fact I shared one of his tracks which was posted on a thread here with my friend Preacher Man, a retired Church Pastor. (My nickname for my friend taken from a number of great soul records).

My final point would just be to say that there are of course a number of "big name", long time stalwarts of the scene, who make a living out of trying to recreate the "speed rinsed coolness we we’re brought up with". It just can't be done. 

Regards

Peter

Edited January 30 by Peter99
err

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Baz Atkinson said:

Watch it Paul you’ll be getting letters from corporate lawyers next lol . Is anyone surprised by this ? When I first saw the Bristol Scene I thought good on them  for getting into the music . . This saddens me however ! 
This ain’t good on many levels , why is her name next to Otis Clays on the playlist ? 
It’s  almost passé now to challenge stuff like this because there has been so much rubbish and mediocrity thrown down our throats for so long that all the bullshit and cashing in is as embedded in the scene as  much as everything else ? 
I don’t know what a northern soul disrupter is perhaps someone could tell me ? 
I miss the scene how it was but i will be dammed if I partake now , I respect immensely those that still go out and seek the venues that try to stay true to turning up records etc but there are few and far between that’s the records not the Venues there still good people out there however.

Charley have looked at the landscape and embraced a different narrative that is a million miles away from the speed rinsed coolness we we’re brought  up  with . As one of the biggest licensors of music perhaps the artistes families will benefit in some form , I really hope so ? Wonder what the split is however ? 

 

It’ll not be lawyers Baz. Paul will get trolled by them under one of their anonymous accounts. They have trolled and abused many who dare to question what they do. 

[Woodbutcher]

11 minutes ago, Chalky said:

It’ll not be lawyers Baz. Paul will get trolled by them under one of their anonymous accounts. They have trolled and abused many who dare to question what they do. 

They never trolled me ... they just got arsey and blocked me ... saved me hitting the button ... 

[Peter99]

30 minutes ago, Chalky said:

It’ll not be lawyers Baz. Paul will get trolled by them under one of their anonymous accounts. They have trolled and abused many who dare to question what they do. 

What! Have they trolled people on here Karl, or are you referring to other social media accounts. They don't sound like very nice people. 

[Woodbutcher]

7 minutes ago, Peter99 said:

What! Have they trolled people on here Karl, or are you referring to other social media accounts. They don't sound like very nice people. 

Women scorned and all that ... 

[Baz Atkinson]

40 minutes ago, Chalky said:

It’ll not be lawyers Baz. Paul will get trolled by them under one of their anonymous accounts. They have trolled and abused many who dare to question what they do. 

Yeah we are in a different world now Karl ironically I was  signing the praises of the Bristol Scene on Facebook a few months ago don’t think I will anymore mate ! 

[Baz Atkinson]

1 hour ago, Peter99 said:

I think that's a fair assessment Baz, and probably just about where I am, as an old man who started my journey with the music since I was a youngster, attending my first all niter in 1978. Of course many people were involved much earlier than I.

Your comment regarding Otis Clay particularly resonates with me; I was only speaking about hm and his wonderful musical legacy yesterday. In fact I shared one of his tracks which was posted on a thread here with my friend Preacher Man, a retired Church Pastor. (My nickname for my friend taken from a number of great soul records).

My final point would just be to say that there are of course a number of "big name", long time stalwarts of the scene, who make a living out of trying to recreate the "speed rinsed coolness we we’re brought up with".

Regards

Peter

Fair dues Pete’ them DJs were never really part of the scene I once belonged to ie the  Rare Soul Scene making a living out of that part of the scene is in the domain of the very few ! 

[Peter99]

3 minutes ago, Baz Atkinson said:

 that part of the scene is in the domain of the very few ! 

It were me and you Baz.

[Benji]

4 hours ago, Paul-s said:

CHARLY RECORDS - List Levanna as the Artist, f--k the artists is the message: 

"Influencer, dancer, promoter and celebutante Levanna (aka “Northern Soul Girl”) lends here DJ skills and magnetic personality to a stunning new ‘rare soul’ series honed from the Charly vaults. Features 16 dance floor favourites from the home of the young souls of Britain and elevated by the country’s top Northern Soul disrupter. "The album name relays the good times and memories that are made when you are into Northern Soul. The feeling of being completely free" Levanna Album Promotion.

Another exclusive from Charly Records."

 

To me this is just totally narcissistic and an obvious display of a lack of respect for the musicians and the scene. 

Levanna (real name Abby) and her mum (EVE) gave up paid work to focus on this venture (capital) and they seem to be prepared to stomp all over the musicians, and working class roots and historical roots of the scene, in a desperate attempt to cash in at any cost. I certainly don't have a "they are just having fun' attitude towards it. 

 

Very likely to me that Charly lists Levanna as an artist just due to technical reason (website database), e.g. Discogs lists compilers like Ady C as artists as well.

Levanna/Abby and her mom wouldn't be the first one or even currently the only ones trying to exploit the scene financially would they?

[Paul-s]

29 minutes ago, Benji said:

Very likely to me that Charly lists Levanna as an artist just due to technical reason (website database), e.g. Discogs lists compilers like Ady C as artists as well.

Levanna/Abby and her mom wouldn't be the first one or even currently the only ones trying to exploit the scene financially would they?

Not that old chestnut.

I cant be bothered explaining the difference here to you, it becomes exhausting.

You either know your history or not. I do.

[Tlscapital]

On 30/01/2024 at 15:55, Benji said:

Very likely to me that Charly lists Levanna as an artist just due to technical reason (website database), e.g. Discogs lists compilers like Ady C as artists as well.

Levanna/Abby and her mom wouldn't be the first one or even currently the only ones trying to exploit the scene financially would they?

No true. But without past credentials, pedigree or what have you no other have truly achieve to do so. Levanna and Abby only manage to do so after having achieve the pathetic social media 'influencer' or bonafide popular Miss Nobody status. Because without that she / they would never have had her comp.

But you're right it's only Charly's database showing that because it is only that ; a technical feature. But it shows it and that's the point of it. And it's just not right is it ? It goes to show why it's the little things that counts too. Little loose seemingly harmless nothings add up and become that ; a monster. Always said so.

Remembering all the enchantement at her beginning where everyone around me 'fell in love' with her moves while I was holding back most of what I was thinking not to be called the cynical again. Now they laugh when I comment what she was to them. Love is blind and now that the time did its part the veil has fallen some.

And I'm sure you're not dissing Ady C. while comparing him being in such similar 'database' position as Levanna...  Just to tease you Benji  Come to think of Ady as a 'Hot Bunny' sometimes he actually might like to be introduced...  No offense Ady. You're a gentleman not to trade we all know that. 

Edited February 2 by Tlscapital

[Paul-s]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

It’ll not be lawyers Baz. Paul will get trolled by them under one of their anonymous accounts. They have trolled and abused many who dare to question what they do. 

I have been trolled many times and the messages are disgusting. I've kept them for printing at a later date. One telling me to hang myself and to move over for the 'cool young people'. This came from one of Bristol Northern Soul Clubs fake accounts ( they have a few. Other people have received abuse too, if they question the Bristol narrative of taking NS into the 21st century.

They don't hide their contempt for the roots of the scene. Here's a message shared between them. The arrogance is beyond belief, but not really...they have created their 'soul' online and its a total fabrication, a parody, a tribute act, a themed night....a shallow grave for Northern Soul.

 

10 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

No true. But without past credentials, pedigree or what have you no other have truly achieve to do so. Levanna and Abby only manage to do so after having achieve the pathetic social media 'influencer' or bonafide popular Miss Nobody status. Because without that she / they would never have had her comp.

But you're right it's only Charley's database showing that because it is only that ; a technical feature. But it shows it and that's the point of it. And it's just not right is it ? It goes to show why it's the little things that counts too. Little loose seemingly harmless nothings add up and become that ; a monster. Always said so.

Remembering all the enchantement at her beginning where everyone around me 'fell in love' with her moves while I was holding back most of what I was thinking not to be called the cynical again. Now they laugh when I comment what she was to them. Love is blind and now that the time did its part the veil has fallen some.

And I'm sure you're not dissing Ady C. while comparing him being in such similar 'database' position as Levanna...  Come to think of Ady as a 'Hot Bunny' sometimes he actually might like to be introduced... 

Well said.

[Paul-s]

1 hour ago, Benji said:

Very likely to me that Charly lists Levanna as an artist just due to technical reason (website database), e.g. Discogs lists compilers like Ady C as artists as well.

Levanna/Abby and her mom wouldn't be the first one or even currently the only ones trying to exploit the scene financially would they?

Interested in the 'technical reason' for listing the other compilations as 'Various Artists'? 

I don't want to suggest that Charly are seeking to celebrate the 'celebutante -disruptor' (their wording) over the music and musicians, but it does make one suspicious.

[Chalky]

When you think it is about “you” and you put yourself above everything and everyone,  make it all about you, then you miss the whole point of it all. 

2 hours ago, Baz Atkinson said:

Yeah we are in a different world now Karl ironically I was  signing the praises of the Bristol Scene on Facebook a few months ago don’t think I will anymore mate ! 

I like to see youngsters get involved and I too only had good to say about most of them at one point but after seeing their behaviour in social media circles not anymore. 

[Paul-s]

2 minutes ago, Chalky said:

When you think it is about “you” and you put yourself above everything and everyone,  make it all about you, then you miss the whole point of it all. 

I like to see youngsters get involved and I too only had good to say about most of them at one point but after seeing their behaviour in social media circles not anymore. 

I totally agree...

[Ady Croasdell]

On 15/01/2024 at 17:57, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

BBC 'Woman's Hour' has previous form I think. I recall some years ago there was a female NS DJ (cant remember her name) that was asked to go on the show to tell the women how hard it was to be a female in a mans world. When the producer spoke to her sometime before the planned show, she said that all of the male DJ's were very helpful and she had experienced no sexism at all. The show then said the segment was being dropped. Surprised...not. 

Somebody will know more detail than me but that was the gist of it as I recall.

That was Val Palmer

Eve was a 100 Club and Stafford regular in the 80s. She ran some nights in or near Bristol late 90s/early 00s. I guest DJed for her

[Wiggyflat]

It is quite obvious she wants to become famous on the back of Northern Soul. Not all of the young kids are part of that Bristol  gang. To me it is all about the artists/finding the records but the media have fallen in love with the trousers and the young kids. They are not interested in chemist burglaries of the past/rare records/artists which is why they go to the bright young thing. To put this into perspective though we get loads of young kids at The Rivoli who regularly jump up on stage and ask about records. One funny incident was Paul Sindab on Hype after i played it. I showed the young lad the record and he couldn't believe that a label would be made like that. They are interested in the music and dancing and good to chat to. They ask for sensible requests as well unlike the gang that are interested in being on telly..  

[Paul-s]

4 hours ago, Ady Croasdell said:

That was Val Palmer

Eve was a 100 Club and Stafford regular in the 80s. She ran some nights in or near Bristol late 90s/early 00s. I guest DJed for her

That makes it even worse. So she should know better. She should know some context and history.

I guess she didn't notice that 100 club, its DJ's and dancers were moving nicely through the decades and into the 21st century without the 'super coolness' of a tiny Bristol club with no dance-floor pronouncing itself as the centre of Northern Soul.

You must be very grateful for her keeping the scene alive I guess....

 

Edited January 30 by Paul-s

[Paul-s]

3 hours ago, Wiggyflat said:

It is quite obvious she wants to become famous on the back of Northern Soul. Not all of the young kids are part of that Bristol  gang. To me it is all about the artists/finding the records but the media have fallen in love with the trousers and the young kids. They are not interested in chemist burglaries of the past/rare records/artists which is why they go to the bright young thing. To put this into perspective though we get loads of young kids at The Rivoli who regularly jump up on stage and ask about records. One funny incident was Paul Sindab on Hype after i played it. I showed the young lad the record and he couldn't believe that a label would be made like that. They are interested in the music and dancing and good to chat to. They ask for sensible requests as well unlike the gang that are interested in being on telly..  

There are some great young soulies out there and thats why this pair of self-promoting narcissistic 'theme night' promoters are disrespectful to them and the other clubs/nights that are organised by young souls. 

I just came across this piece of writing  that I did in 2014 as part of a first draft for The Northern Soul Scene Book (2019). It didn't make the book. But I am revising it for my new one. It's full of grammatical mistakes but I think it was very astute. I immediately sensed a product and a producer when they first appeared. Universal tried what Charly are now doing:

 

"Perhaps one of the most successful commercial ventures to co-opt the term ‘Northern Soul’, insinuating a ‘happy go-lucky, smiley culture’ of bouncy, homogenous dancers, is the nineteen-year-old YouTube sensation, Levanna McClean aka ‘Northern Soul Girl’ (NSG). The manufactured character of NSG, “dancing Wigan Casino-style” (Woodhall, 2013), perhaps exemplifies a cynical zenith in the commercialisation of Northern Soul. In one interview, where she demonstrates, through pictures and narrative, ‘how to dance’, we are told that “the basic Northern Soul step is quite easy, a moving from side to side. It's believed that lots of the nice footwork comes from early jazz dancing styles” (McClean, 2013). Whether she is referring to the Nicholas Brothers, or other jazz dance legends, is not clear, but any such lineage of influence is palpably not visible in NSG’s own dancing technique. Once again, we find the wholly erroneous assertion of a ‘side to side’ basic movement. The essential premise of the NSG videos is to find as many different backdrop locations as possible, whether they be leafy woodland, exotic wine bar, the mansion of a millionaire record dealer, and to repeat exactly the same dance movements, over and over again, highlighted before each colourful tapestry. The music is of no importance whatsoever when weighed against the brand-pull of NSG’s smile as she prances for the camera. The smile, and the brand-power, have, of course, garnered fruitful sponsorship, fashion and music shoots, not to mention an attempt by ‘Universal Music’ to corner the market commercially with a series of Northern Soul CD releases (favourite all time classics, apparently compiled by NSG personally, though she has only been ‘on the scene’ for a few years).

By placing the emphasis on a poster girl, rather than the music, a major commercial power has finally found a way to market an underground scene that up until now had remained stubbornly elusive to mainstream market forces. In this case, the NSG brand has superseded the music itself. This is, perhaps, the critical point to note; a turning point has been rounded in the commercialisation of Northern Soul, a scene originally built on the worship of music, vinyl and musicians, rather than the relatively recent penchant for teenage, celebrity dancers. In an interview for the Daily Mail (2013), we are informed of ‘team Levanna’, headed by Levannas’s mother, Eve. Eve produces all Levannas’s videos and, we are told, as with ‘Shredded Wheat’ Dave and his son, introduced her to Northern Soul.[i] Here, the historically incorrect dance narrative is further, painstakingly, developed, as NSG asserts that it involves “a lot of acrobatic moves from 1980s hip hop” (McClean, 2013). It might be suggested by the cynic that the endgame in this case is one of financial gain through sponsorship, but whatever the aim of these productions, it becomes historically and culturally problematic when the media, and other investors, hail this manufactured image as the “fresh young face of Northern Soul” (Woodhall, 2013), thus once again co-opting the scene, or a moment in its history, for commercial advertising which might be more accurately described as the “fresh young face of Northern Soul-less”. "  (Sadot, 2014).

[Happy Feet]

Surely everyone wether young or old must realize , that the Northern Soul Scene is about the music , not a Celebutante, Influencer/ manipulator or whatever Social media wants to call them . The fresh young face of Northern Soul will still be dancing to sounds heard and danced to for the first time probably, that we did 50 yrs ago because they where and still great records , no one person can take the credit or ever should .

[Wheelsville1]

I have always thought that Levanne was self centered and disingenuous,she was at the top of the world reunion last year and because nobody gave a shit and that she wasn't the centre of attention on the dance floor,she left early along with her side kicks.Now that people are seeing her for what she is , hopefuly there will be no longevity.

[Hooker1951]

Who are these People? I’m glad I’ve never met them, Do they really believe that their more important than the music and the thousands that came before them, not including the artists, They come across as Superficial and Me Me Me  folk existing on the echoes of NS, Leaves of a Tree, blowing in the wind , They are not that important, 

ML

[Karen Bedford]

On 30/01/2024 at 09:53, Paul-s said:

CHARLY RECORDS - List Levanna as the Artist, f--k the artists is the message: 

"Influencer, dancer, promoter and celebutante Levanna (aka “Northern Soul Girl”) lends here DJ skills and magnetic personality to a stunning new ‘rare soul’ series honed from the Charly vaults. Features 16 dance floor favourites from the home of the young souls of Britain and elevated by the country’s top Northern Soul disrupter. "The album name relays the good times and memories that are made when you are into Northern Soul. The feeling of being completely free" Levanna Album Promotion.

Another exclusive from Charly Records."

 

To me this is just totally narcissistic and an obvious display of a lack of respect for the musicians and the scene. 

Levanna (real name Abby) and her mum (EVE) gave up paid work to focus on this venture (capital) and they seem to be prepared to stomp all over the musicians, and working class roots and historical roots of the scene, in a desperate attempt to cash in at any cost. I certainly don't have a "they are just having fun' attitude towards it. 

 

 

[Hooker1951]

7 minutes ago, Karen Bedford said:

 

And?

[Karen Bedford]

Just now, Karen Bedford said:

Paul S spot on, I have been saying that, us, who have been keeping it going, feel pushed out.
Having to watch the 'I count reps when I dance' actually is upsetting. People will/are all dancing the same way, no passion for the music, not in time most the time, all about dancing and look at me, not about the music or artists. 
The thing is, I see the others 'dance' on FB and Youtube' but to other tracks that are non NS, its the same dance steps!
I also do not find they mix with the older generation unless the people are 'known' on the scene. 
It is so sad it has becoming this way, I wanted the scene to keep going but this was not the way I hoped it would go.
I have been a fitness instructor but I am a dancer on the NS and do not count reps when dancing!
I have also been saying 'when will the artists be considered'? I remember on a FB group, when an artist was asking why they were not asked to perform at BBC Proms, the amount of people who slagged the artist down, was dreadful.  Total disrespect.
But if you voice your view that you are not happy with what they are doing, it seems its negative but do we really want this scene to go where the music and artists are 'lost in translation'?

 

[Peter99]

18 minutes ago, Hooker1951 said:

And?

[Shinehead]

26 minutes ago, Hooker1951 said:

And?

Read Karen's response after your post.

[Hooker1951]

Hi Shinehead

I have done and reacted to it, I was the first to react to it

3 hours ago, Shinehead said:

Read Karen's response after your post.

 

[Paul-s]

18 hours ago, Karen Bedford said:

 

Yes, Karen, I totally agree and i wont be silenced by the ridiculous and manipulative "your being negative" or "they are only having fun" response. I've been closely following the rise of this soulless co-optation of the NS culture and history for over a decade. They are easy to unpick and expose because their arrogance and sense of entitlement blinds them to reality. 

I was not that surprised when many (men leading the way) on the scene embraced the shiny new blonde haired girl(s) romping around to the top 500 (well top 30 really). It seems they were easily blinded by youth and ?????

As, in the piece i wrote in 2014, i sensed a product with NSG (the clue is in the narcissistic name that negates all other females on the scene past and present).

Now, of course, we have Kev R creating new parody, NS dancing, so called World Champions!
That famous dancer Kev R. Its absurd and embarrassing.
The 22 Chumpion, then went on to teach (leach) terrible 'Cod' NS dancing for money: using microphone, aunt Sally parody outfits, hopping about and all. She was a YouTube parody NS dancer along with Pops. Then she goes to Blackpool (she's not on the scene) and wins the Championship. It demonstrates the level of NS 'soul' at that event.

It is all 'Historical Re-enactment' and nothing at all to do with the Northern Soul scene: like a Teddy Boy event or War of the Roses re-enactment society. They run Northern Soul 'Themed' nights, so lets start calling them that.

The problem comes when they make claims of taking NS into the 21st century or they are the centre of soul.

I remember 'Levine Must Go' T-shirts (and Ian, love him or hate, him, gave a lot to the scene musically)....we don't need to change many letters to accommodate this new pair of Soul Vampires.

[Wheelsville1]

18 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

Yes, Karen, I totally agree and i wont be silenced by the ridiculous and manipulative "your being negative" or "they are only having fun" response. I've been closely following the rise of this soulless co-optation of the NS culture and history for over a decade. They are easy to unpick and expose because their arrogance and sense of entitlement blinds them to reality. 

I was not that surprised when many (men leading the way) on the scene embraced the shiny new blonde haired girl(s) romping around to the top 500 (well top 30 really). It seems they were easily blinded by youth and ?????

As, in the piece i wrote in 2014, i sensed a product with NSG (the clue is in the narcissistic name that negates all other females on the scene past and present).

Now, of course, we have Kev R creating new parody, NS dancing, so called World Champions!
That famous dancer Kev R. Its absurd and embarrassing.
The 22 Chumpion, then went on to teach (leach) terrible 'Cod' NS dancing for money: using microphone, aunt Sally parody outfits, hopping about and all. She was a YouTube parody NS dancer along with Pops. Then she goes to Blackpool (she's not on the scene) and wins the Championship. It demonstrates the level of NS 'soul' at that event.

It is all 'Historical Re-enactment' and nothing at all to do with the Northern Soul scene: like a Teddy Boy event or War of the Roses re-enactment society. They run Northern Soul 'Themed' nights, so lets start calling them that.

The problem comes when they make claims of taking NS into the 21st century or they are the centre of soul.

I remember 'Levine Must Go' T-shirts (and Ian, love him or hate, him, gave a lot to the scene musically)....we don't need to change many letters to accommodate this new pair of Soul Vampires.

I have always thought that if she had a face like a sack of spanners,she wouldn't have got this far.

[Simon T]

4 minutes ago, Wheelsville1 said:

a face like a sack of spanners,

I love that description #3

#2 a face like a slater's nail bag

#1 a face that would frighten a police horse

[Happy Feet]

"Northern Soul 'Theme' Nights" you forgot Paul " In Fancy Dress" 

[Bloodseed]

On 19/01/2024 at 09:31, Mark S said:

Not worth getting bent out of shape over. Everyone has thier own NS story and differing points of reference depending when they first got into it, for me early 70s Manchester very different culturally than the 90s and by the time Levanna got into it 2014 the genie was well and truly out of the bottle.                                                       The disinterest demonstrated by the presenter was evident when Levanna spoke about beat ballads and popcorn the presenter never asked what that was it's not normal parlance in everyday speech.                  The media have never understood or represented the scene propperly and never will this was evident with the Proms and various documentarys          Levanna and her Mum are doing no more damage than some of the big name DJs that feel the need to promote the scene and co-operate with the media. The scene has historically gathered its own momentum  in spite of interference will survive. 

Well said 

I have worked closely with BNSC and we guest there  in January 

having got to know Eve Levanna and these up and coming kids I can vouch that they are trying to hold up the scene as many people are now getting older and it needs this injection 

I have been involved or started this great soul scene journey way back in mid 70s and am impressed as of any time in what they are trying to achieve 

we support each other here in Bristol ( I’ve been here since 1990s )  Go Go Children was a fore runner other than Yate that kept it going down here 

furthermore talking to these kids they are knowledgeable and so enthusiastic about this music and that in essence is the reality 

people judge but never go so it’s a bit hypocritical in my eyes keep going Eve Levanna and co because if you don’t the scene will die because people have casted stones and not give it a chance 

 

 

[Chalky]

15 minutes ago, Bloodseed said:

Well said 

I have worked closely with BNSC and we guest there  in January 

having got to know Eve Levanna and these up and coming kids I can vouch that they are trying to hold up the scene as many people are now getting older and it needs this injection 

I have been involved or started this great soul scene journey way back in mid 70s and am impressed as of any time in what they are trying to achieve 

we support each other here in Bristol ( I’ve been here since 1990s )  Go Go Children was a fore runner other than Yate that kept it going down here 

furthermore talking to these kids they are knowledgeable and so enthusiastic about this music and that in essence is the reality 

people judge but never go so it’s a bit hypocritical in my eyes keep going Eve Levanna and co because if you don’t the scene will die because people have casted stones and not give it a chance 

 

 

The scene isa not what it was but it will not die and one little club with a supporters who probably will not stay the course once real life commitments kick will not keep the scene going or moving forward.  They certainly are progressing the scene, no new music comes out of that club.  They do not support venues all, over the country.

[Bloodseed]

Chalky 

isn’t that the way it’s always been ? 
I went to niters back in the day and maybe a third of them are still going it’s a circle 

as for these youngsters they do travel and support other venues I know this as I’ve spoken to them  as near as last Sunday when they attended my do after going to the 100 club the night before We need to encourage them and from where I’m standing it looks healthier for the future if we all pull in the same direction  no one owns the scene so we all need to do our bit

[Corbett80]

On 15/01/2024 at 18:46, Kenb said:

You are right of course. But Cultural appropriation is everywhere, and NS is the newsest incarnation of it. Happy to hear you keep calling it out.

There’s a pretty strong argument that Northern soul itself is cultural appropriation of the highest order. A bunch of white people robbing 45s from poor black folk, building a scene around them, copying the dancing and using black power iconography etc - the list goes on. I mean, i love it and i’m fully invested and would argue it’s all out of love, but we can’t get the hump about other people culturally appropriating cultural appropriation can we….?

[Corbett80]

Also if you’re involved or have been involved in any sort of ‘scene related extra curricular activity’ - soul films, soul plays, soul fashion videos / promos, soul floats at national events, you really ought to forfeit the right to complain as it feels like pure hypocrisy. If you’re out there chucking it about you best be clean imho. Just one opinion….

[Chalky]

6 minutes ago, Corbett80 said:

There’s a pretty strong argument that Northern soul itself is cultural appropriation of the highest order. A bunch of white people robbing 45s from poor black folk, building a scene around them, copying the dancing and using black power iconography etc - the list goes on. I mean, i love it and i’m fully invested and would argue it’s all out of love, but we can’t get the hump about other people culturally appropriating cultural appropriation can we….?

Robbing? The majority of the recordings would have been lost forever if it wasn’t for that bunch of white people. Those recordings were not wanted by the people they recorded them for.

[Corbett80]

12 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Robbing? The majority of the recordings would have been lost forever if it wasn’t for that bunch of white people. Those recordings were not wanted by the people they recorded them for.

Isn’t there a touch of the saviour complex there though? Agree it’s great they’ve been saved by someone but to get annoyed by the Levanna thing to the extent that people are so publicly just seems futile and daft to me. And to say its cultural appropriation on the Northern soul scene feels a bit ludicrous. This stuff isn’t ours its borrowed from another culture, isn’t it? Btw, when i say robbing i’m using hyperbole, and meaning the worst excesses of the scene.  As i say  - most if it has been clearly done with love for the music and people in mind. But it’s  just one opinion. We’ve all got em as evidenced daily on here.

Edited February 1 by Corbett80

[Happy Feet]

9 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Robbing? The majority of the recordings would have been lost forever if it wasn’t for that bunch of white people. Those recordings were not wanted by the people they recorded them for.

If I'm not mistaken, a few of the artists moved to Europe and the UK where their music was appreciated more than in the states .

[Tlscapital]

1 minute ago, Happy Feet said:

If I'm not mistaken, a few of the artists moved to Europe and the UK where their music was appreciated more than in the states .

And the other way around too.  It's never as strongly mentioned or shouted about (the old versus the new continent) but anyway those who flee their motherland are not the ones we care for mostly. Well at least not musically. Or at least I'm not. And going out I don't hear them such records played out at the right venues.

On the other end I'm not sure where this tread is going but if it's all the same and / or one shouldn't feel dislike but only "love" or careless it's surely ain't my 'scene'. My records, music and all around it is about passion. And all that goes against my passion of what I love about it I despise. And so we discuss it on here.

[Modularman]

56 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Robbing? The majority of the recordings would have been lost forever if it wasn’t for that bunch of white people. Those recordings were not wanted by the people they recorded them for.

"Those recordings were not wanted by the people they recorded them for."

Really? Of course they were wanted, there was clearly a demand and sales, just a combination of small pressing runs, poor resources, funding and promotion.

Let's face it the NS scene also 'appropriates' from other genres that's not a criticism just a factual observation.

[Mark S]

3 hours ago, Bloodseed said:

Well said 

I have worked closely with BNSC and we guest there  in January 

having got to know Eve Levanna and these up and coming kids I can vouch that they are trying to hold up the scene as many people are now getting older and it needs this injection 

I have been involved or started this great soul scene journey way back in mid 70s and am impressed as of any time in what they are trying to achieve 

we support each other here in Bristol ( I’ve been here since 1990s )  Go Go Children was a fore runner other than Yate that kept it going down here 

furthermore talking to these kids they are knowledgeable and so enthusiastic about this music and that in essence is the reality 

people judge but never go so it’s a bit hypocritical in my eyes keep going Eve Levanna and co because if you don’t the scene will die because people have casted stones and not give it a chance 

 

 

Just being pragmatic, there's nothing anybody can do about this. 

Years ago there were discussions on here abouut encouraging new blood we can't control what they then do this was bound to happen in this new media savvy age. 

My personal veiw is when I die the scene can die with me never bothered me about encourageing new blood those that do usually have a vested interest. 

I believe that Levanna doesn't mean to cause harm as do many of the big DJ's but by sticking her head above the parrapet those intentions are then manipulated and distorted by the media, exprerience has shown this many times over the years the media can't be trusted ever so why people that purport to care about the scene don't learn is beyond me. 

Naivety or narcissistic tendencies are my only conclusion sadly. 

 

 

[Chalky]

6 hours ago, Modularman said:

"Those recordings were not wanted by the people they recorded them for."

Really? Of course they were wanted, there was clearly a demand and sales, just a combination of small pressing runs, poor resources, funding and promotion.

Let's face it the NS scene also 'appropriates' from other genres that's not a criticism just a factual observation.

For most there was hardly any sales that’s why they faded into obscurity until discovered by Brits. 

[Tlscapital]

13 hours ago, Corbett80 said:

There’s a pretty strong argument that Northern soul itself is cultural appropriation of the highest order. A bunch of white people robbing 45s from poor black folk, building a scene around them, copying the dancing and using black power iconography etc - the list goes on. I mean, i love it and i’m fully invested and would argue it’s all out of love, but we can’t get the hump about other people culturally appropriating cultural appropriation can we….?

Terms and words choices ; culture and economy are interlinked all through history. I'm afraid that those records were bought and not robbed per se and that white people victimizing some more black folks is... Huh ! Just not true.

Are you really going to put guilt on every purchased records ? As for 'appropriation' what about borrowed or influenced from rather than appropriated ? A dance move and / or taking an "over easy" stance for a far away social cause ?

Is all that morally 'punishable' ? I think not. Pathetic maybe. Even if that's your way of seeing it using those ideological 'filters' to me these terms are just too insidious and unhappy for one to live with love for those records if ever.

For one to have some political or social awareness of the world we live in is one thing. To make any subculture an ideological battle ground is never a good thing. Imposed ideology follows and it's despicable. We're in for the music.

Not a political struggle. What I've found at one time on top of the sounds that were my treat was an 'underground' night-life with people dedicated to that music with no dress code, age or origin discrimination nor socio-economic barriers.

As opposed to other "marginal" scenes I encountered back then full off aggro for nothing and political side suspicion that I grew tired from. And racism if you want to go there (eg. whites robbing blacks) such is not the white man's privilege. ...

Preferring to agree I guess as like you I love some of what still remain of that 'underground' (a 'discreet' not plotting cult of devotees to sounding materials outside of the authorities control scope) scene nowadays.

That have taken too much overground float for too long again and that some seems to do everything they can to keep it that way. This is where the issue lies for me. That is consumerism at the service of the rotten egos.

Edited February 2 by Tlscapital