Joker Records {Los Angeles)

[Guest]

Was the Joker Records label, based in Los Angeles (?) associated with Motown?  All the releases are published by Jobete music, the publishing affiliate of Motown Records. Did Berry Gordy own or part-own this label and use it to release records that didn't suit the main Motown labels?  Here is an example:

 

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

If you read thru this thread you will pick up some info some way down. 

In short Hal Davis worked for Motown out in LA long before Motown relocated to LA in 74. Probably where the connection is to Jobete songs on an LA label.  Most of the artists / producers etc like the Pipkin bros were LA based. Not all songs were Jobete tho'. 

Andy

 

[Robbk]

"Was the Joker Records label, based in Los Angeles (?) associated with Motown?  ALL the releases are published by Jobete music, the publishing affiliate of Motown Records. Did Berry Gordy own or part-own this label and use it to release records that didn't suit the main Motown labels?"

L.A.'s Joker Records was owned by LA KGFJ DJ, Herman Griffith and a partner, and he was friendly with Hal Davis, who, along with producer, Marc Gordon, ran Motown's Jobete Music's West Coast Office.  And ALL of Joker's songs were NOT published by Motown's Jobete Music.  "Jan-Cris Music" was Joker's in-house publisher, and published most (about 75%) of their songs.  Jan and Cris were the names of Griffith's two daughters. 

The reason for 8 of Joker's songs being published by Jobete is that several of Joker's producers and songwriters were writing songs for Jobete L.A. (like Chester & Gary Pipkin, Vince Love, Charles Wright, Willie Hutcherson (Hutch), and others).  A few of them were signed to Jobete as songwriters and Producers, who produced the "proof of ownership" recordings and artist demo records.  Whatever they produced that Jobete wanted to own, the company bought.  

Even when Jobete bought a song, the local L.A. writer/producers, by contract, had the rights to put out commercial record issues on artists not signed to Motown (often demo singers and background singers), IF and when Motown had not issued its own commercial release on that song, within 6 months of buying its publishing rights.  That is how so many Jobete songs were released sung by Mary Love (LA Jobete background singer) on Modern Records, and so many Jobete songs were issued on Joker Records, and Jobete LA producer Frank Wilson, issued songs sung by himself on his own local label (Power Records), as well as VJ's Tollie Records, and by Connie Clark on Joker.

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Robbk

[Roburt]

How did the Lewis Sisters fit into all this (as song writers) ?

They wrote "Love Starved Heart" which Marvin recorded. However, they wrote it for Al Wilson & he sang / recorded it first. His track was offered to Motown by Marc Gordon, but the company failed to sign Al to a contract & he went elsewhere (Soul City, Bell then Rocky Road). It seems that Al's version of "Love Starved Heart" was just dumped & may well have been totally lost with the passage of time.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Roburt

[The Yank]

I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for but for some reason the Lewis Sisters used their husband's last names on "He's An Oddball" - these same credits also appear on the Autograph's "Do The Duck" . 

[Robbk]

6 hours ago, Roburt said:

How did the Lewis Sisters fit into all this (as song writers) ?

They wrote "Love Starved Heart" which Marvin recorded. However, they wrote it for Al Wilson & he sang / recorded it first. His track was offered to Motown by Marc Gordon, but the company failed to sign Al to a contract & he went elsewhere (Soul City, Bell then Rocky Road). It seems that Al's version of "Love Starved Heart" was just dumped & may well have been totally lost with the passage of time.

Wilson went elsewhere, to Soul City Records, because that was Marc Gordon's label.  He may have formed that label to sign promising artists that Motown didn't want to record (Al Wilson and The Versatiles, who had changed their name to The Fifth Dimension, who recorded 3 demo tapes at Motown that didn't impress Motown Enough to release a record on them (until they were signed by Motown in the 1970s).  Those 2 acts had most of Soul City's releases.

[Robbk]

"Do The Duck" was a "G & G Production", which probably stood for Griffith (Herman) and Gordon (Marc).  So Jobete's Co-Manager, Marc Gordon brought a song written by his own Jobete Music writing crew (The Lewis Sisters) to Griffith's Joker Records to press it and release it on local L.A. artists, because Motown did nothing of importance with it (e.g. not recorded by a star Motown act, and not given a release with a strong marketing push). 

So, we see the symbiotic relationship L.A. Jobete music had with Joker Records.  Joker would provide some songwriter-producers who could write songs whose demo recordings produced by those producers could entice Motown to buy the songs, increasing Jobete's profits, and paying their staff, and Joker would also fund and produce the recording session of the production of the L.A. artist or group's final recordings, an the pressing of the records, and use their own distributor to distribute the records IF Motown DIDN'T buy the songs or have a successful sales level IF they did.  That set-up formed a hedge against the potential danger of Motown's not buying songs or not creating significant residual income from their releases, allowing Jobete Music and their local L.A. record company's and their producers to get a reasonable shot at generating the sales and songwriting and music publishing residual income themselves.  That worked well for the L.A. producers, Marc Gordon and Frank Wilson's "You Turned My Bitter Into Sweet", "Let Me Know" and a couple others by Mary Love with her contract with Modern Records, but not with any of the Joker issues, as Joker didn't get nearly as good songs, and didn't have the best distribution and marketing staff connections. 

Personally, I think "Love's Gonna Do You In", by The Autographs was a good enough recording, and The Autographs were a good enough group to have a big regional hit, or minor national hit.  They were really talented singers and a tight group with good harmony, and they were tight with their dance choreography, too.  Like so many other groups, they could have been big stars if Motown would have signed them in 1965, and given them a proper push.  But Joker didn't have the marketing clout.  Griffith was a well-respected DJ in the business, but he was interested in too many different things (Civic projects, Charities, other business ventures (He owned Crain's Records, and I believe, one more business), and had big time commitments for KGFJ and his job there,- so he couldn't concentrate fully on Joker, and he didn't have a talented enough staff at the label to make it big with Griffith pulled away in so many directions.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Robbk