World Northern Soul Dance Championship: Info please

[Frankie Crocker]

Totally agree Paul. The tracks were questionable - using a Motown number for the final defied belief given there are some pretty decent Northern records out there... Perhaps Kev could have said what the judges were looking for which would clarify matters for participants, spectators and us commentators. That way it could be a credible sideshow. Nothing wrong with having older entrants by the way, but they must be able to dance, and ideally, demonstrate different styles to an assortment of tunes! 

[Wiggyflat]

You don't see many different styles of "Northern Soul dancing" no fast shuffling to Time or Summer In The Parks .....no Russian rolls....no handstands into splits....no swallow dives.... I suppose those styles are dead now along with Karate slippers,shorts,Italian combats,canvas belts,Pods,. Never mind the Italians came third and I believe  Scotland won.

[Hooker1951]

Let’s just get back to dark dingy clubs with sweat dripping from walls and ceilings , Strong Soul music blasting out where you can just about  make out a person if they are directly in front of you when dancing, where you can get lost in the music doing your thing for yourself and not for the cameras, let’s go back and feel the vibe like it used to be and not what it’s now become, a watered down version to suit the pretenders and part timers, let’s get the Soul back.

MickL

[Frankie Crocker]

2 hours ago, Wiggyflat said:

You don't see many different styles of "Northern Soul dancing" no fast shuffling to Time or Summer In The Parks .....no Russian rolls....no handstands into splits....no swallow dives.... I suppose those styles are dead now along with Karate slippers,shorts,Italian combats,canvas belts,Pods,. Never mind the Italians came third and I believe  Scotland won.

Kev - you’d be disqualified as Time’s a stomping tune danced left to right whilst Summer In The Parks is a shuffler danced forwards and backwards. First round tunes could include classics like Epitome Of Sound or Checkerboard Squares; Second round tunes could include Hamilton Movement, Frankie Crocker etc; Final tunes should allow scope for self expression, minimal gymnastics and be fast stompers such as Jewels, Royal Esquires or Saint’s I’ll Let You Slide.

If Kev Roberts is reading this, could you include a cat-walk for contestants to parade along next year?

[Agentsmith]

Underlying analysis here is: the feel for the music, its a constant. You have to know, love learn the words, express everything in the dance....and if youre going to add the pyrotechnics in your arsenal, they have to be timed for those influential moments like machine gun drum rolls.

Ive actually judged this competition a number of times, 10 years since i last attended the event tbh, but did so  mostly the earlier events when, it was evocative to watch....there were even then, a lot of good dancers around ( 2006/7 )....theres no real comparison to the life our age  Group has lived though, the 70's encompassed the spirit of Northern soul, we all came from different walks of life and ' discovered/pioneered ' the music that the discovering/pioneering djs put in front of us.

Yes the analogy of World and World series certainly rings with hypocracy....you just dont see other countries doing it anyway.

Remember the ' World Disco Dance Championships?, Keb Darge?, that was probably more representative yes?

I honestly didnt think the winner of the 2023 comp was any better than the previous 5 or 6, no real dynamism, girls will almost indefinitely give a good account of theirselves, competition or no....remember: The Casino held dance comps, i witnessed one in....75 i think and it was a girl who won it.....possibly Kim?, no airs and graces, just danced whilst the two lads flung theirselves about and didnt fall off the stage!

 

If anyone feels inclined to get their high velocity sniper rifle out with silencer attached and take me down, please feel free to do so!, i intend no offence and consider i havent made any.....just sort of observational.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Agentsmith

[Agentsmith]

Just seen another video on fb....at sn age now where at quarter to midnight folk are just going through the motions...the natural ageing progression, no one has the viltality to show the exuberance they were capable of, even just 20 years ago....id say 40 years of age the vast majority would still have that energy level, a watershed age...mind over matter still didnt come into the equation then.

 

 

 

 

[Stretfordender]

On 08/11/2023 at 14:55, Julianb said:

Absolutely true. It was filmed by Ian and  Angie Wills daughter ( sorry, can't remember her name) and shown to me at the Spitfire Club in October. I tried a few of the moves but thought my existing ones were better.

Julian, your moves will be even more fluid now they've got Wainwrights on draught

[Benji]

On 05/11/2023 at 14:41, Paul-s said:

Just to say, I am writing about Northern Soul dancing at the moment and these questions are genuine. So, comments are welcome. 

I have, since its inception, been bemused by the title of this competition.

I, of course, have my own opinion, but I am very interested in your take on it. So,

 

• What makes it a World championship?
• What countries from around the World are represented?
• Why is it not called Blackpool dance competition (local as in the past)?
• Is it run by a representative World federation. As with other World dance competitions? 
• Which other countries is it held in?
• Can another event(s) hold a World Northern Soul Dance Championship: so we will have many World champions?
• How do the judges choose a winner?
• Does the title mean the winner is the best northern soul dancer in the World?
• What do you personally think about Northern Soul dance competitions?

 

Paul,

all but the last question should be aimed at the promoters. I assume you asked them as part of your research? Care to share the replies?

 

[Paul-s]

On 12/11/2023 at 22:32, Frankie Crocker said:

So, now the competition is over, what do people think? There are a few clips on YouTube to view plus a thread on Facebook. Jack Morgan from Scotland was deemed to be the winner. His acrobatics and spins drew much applause from the audience. For what it’s worth, I thought Sharon was easily the better dancer with good footwork in time with the beat but no scrabbling around on the floor to titillate the judges. Jack’s performance was quite impressive but scored nil points on my scorecard for musical interpretation or basic footwork. The 1st round as shown on YouTube looks more like a wedding reception disco with most punters affecting the lethargy that comes with six pints or two bottles of prosecco. Ultimately, it was just another dance competition judged by unknown subjective criteria so the winner deserves credit fir turning up and impressing. On the other hand though, the spectacle was rather disappointing and the most eye catching dancer, namely Sharon, did not win IMO.

So was the standard World Class? 

I was very bored watching it, people cheering at dull dancing, to dull records, and nothing new introduced to the style. Acrobatics in strange places, spins in strange places, breaks missed,  and all very limp to watch: my feelings about it. Quite frankly, I find it all very Derby and Joan and cringy. It was a very slow fizz...

I heard the better dancers were at Rugby, getting into it.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Paul-s
link

[Paul-s]

18 minutes ago, Benji said:

Paul,

all but the last question should be aimed at the promoters. I assume you asked them as part of your research? Care to share the replies?

 

I was hoping Kev might hop on here but yes i am intending to do that of course. Richard in his show refers to it as The Blackpool Northern Soul Weekender Dance Competition. So he's quite accurate. I will send Kev a PM.

[Frankie Crocker]

2 hours ago, Paul-s said:

So was the standard World Class? 

I was very bored watching it, people cheering at dull dancing, to dull records, and nothing new introduced to the style. Acrobatics in strange places, spins I strange places, breaks missed,  and all very limp to watch: my feelings about it. Quite frankly, I find it all very Derby and Joan and cringy.

I heard the better dancers were at Rugby, getting into it.

 

 

What a shambles to watch. Worse than VAR at a football match. The lanyards would be better distributed during the record so there’s no hanging around. Some pretty good dancers were not acknowledged whilst weak ones were. Loads of folk seemed to be on the floor at the start but then just wandered off - were they actually in the competition to begin with? Kev announces the judges are looking for athleticism and personality - I saw very little of either quality and would go as far as to say nimble footwork trumps athleticism every time. The lass at the bottom left of the video, blonde hair and patterned top, knew her stuff and outclassed plenty of blokes doing the hokey-cokey-left foot-right foot-on the spot-thing dads do at weddings. Slow Fizz is OK as a Nighter tune but rather plodding in a dance competition as it lacks the oomph to energise. And by energise, I mean not skipping, not prancing, proper footwork, appropriate use of arms ie none of this cricket umpire signalling...I despair...

[Paul-s]

15 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

What a shambles to watch. Worse than VAR at a football match. The lanyards would be better distributed during the record so there’s no hanging around. Some pretty good dancers were not acknowledged whilst weak ones were. Loads of folk seemed to be on the floor at the start but then just wandered off - were they actually in the competition to begin with? Kev announces the judges are looking for athleticism and personality - I saw very little of either quality and would go as far as to say nimble footwork trumps athleticism every time. The lass at the bottom left of the video, blonde hair and patterned top, knew her stuff and outclassed plenty of blokes doing the hokey-cokey-left foot-right foot-on the spot-thing dads do at weddings. Slow Fizz is OK as a Nighter tune but rather plodding in a dance competition as it lacks the oomph to energise. And by energise, I mean not skipping, not prancing, proper footwork, appropriate use of arms ie none of this cricket umpire signalling...I despair...

I have to agree..

[Paul-s]

3 hours ago, Benji said:

Paul,

all but the last question should be aimed at the promoters. I assume you asked them as part of your research? Care to share the replies?

 

Trying to find Kev's contact on here? 

[Hooker1951]

It would be a good start at these nighters if somebody switched a few lights out, there is more atmosphere in a Methodist church on a Sunday morning than in some of these venues today, everything is too sanitised and become a parody of what it should be, Back to basics, Good music, Good gear, minimum lighting, DJ.s playing for the floor, less talking on the Mike keeps people moving if your playing good sounds they do the talking for you and at the same time sorts the wheat from the chaff, 

Mick L

[Shaafi P]

3 hours ago, Paul-s said:

So was the standard World Class? 

I was very bored watching it, people cheering at dull dancing, to dull records, and nothing new introduced to the style. Acrobatics in strange places, spins in strange places, breaks missed,  and all very limp to watch: my feelings about it. Quite frankly, I find it all very Derby and Joan and cringy. It was a very slow fizz...

I heard the better dancers were at Rugby, getting into it.

 

 

I saw some wicked dancers at rugby on saturday with such unique styles and personal flair! All reacting to differently to changes in sound’s throughout the night and different rooms as they had a modern room. Was amazing to watch and share the dancefloor with them!

[Woodbutcher]

48 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

Trying to find Kev's contact on here? 

@Goldsoul

[Dave2]

1 hour ago, Shaafi P said:

I saw some wicked dancers at rugby on saturday with such unique styles and personal flair! All reacting to differently to changes in sound’s throughout the night and different rooms as they had a modern room. Was amazing to watch and share the dancefloor with them!

Yep, I second that!  A few youngsters there with plenty of attitude and nice footwork.

[Paul-s]

1 hour ago, Woodbutcher said:

@Goldsoul

Thanks

2 hours ago, Hooker1951 said:

It would be a good start at these nighters if somebody switched a few lights out, there is more atmosphere in a Methodist church on a Sunday morning than in some of these venues today, everything is too sanitised and become a parody of what it should be, Back to basics, Good music, Good gear, minimum lighting, DJ.s playing for the floor, less talking on the Mike keeps people moving if your playing good sounds they do the talking for you and at the same time sorts the wheat from the chaff, 

Mick L

yes.

[Mark S]

22 hours ago, Paul-s said:

So was the standard World Class? 

I was very bored watching it, people cheering at dull dancing, to dull records, and nothing new introduced to the style. Acrobatics in strange places, spins in strange places, breaks missed,  and all very limp to watch: my feelings about it. Quite frankly, I find it all very Derby and Joan and cringy. It was a very slow fizz...

I heard the better dancers were at Rugby, getting into it.

 

 

Just watched this, it's unbelievable that people take this seriously.  Saw nothing exceptional there 50 years ago most dancers at any club could have wiped the floor with this lot.  Dancing to great tunes is about losing yourself in the music and shouldn't matter how you dance and whether you are better than the next person is irrelevant.     

 

[Agentsmith]

19 minutes ago, Mark S said:

Just watched this, it's unbelievable that people take this seriously.  Saw nothing exceptional there 50 years ago most dancers at any club could have wiped the floor with this lot.  Dancing to great tunes is about losing yourself in the music and shouldn't matter how you dance and whether you are better than the next person is irrelevant.     

 

Valid point...probably as much a reason as why the real dancers, who do go there....and there probably are quite a few, en large dont bother jumping in....i wasnt impressed with the final 3, pretty flat, and this has been the case for a good few years now.

[Paul-s]

Here is a copy of my questions to Kev. I will share the response if/when one arrives.

Hi Kev,

I hope you're very well.

You may have seen the thread concerning this event on here.

I am writing a book about dancing to northern soul. I am obviously aware of the local dance comps that took place back in the 70's. Wigan Casino Dance Competition; St Ives Dance Competition; Loughborough Dance Competition etc.

The thread raises the following questions and I wanted to ask you (the organiser) if you could respond to them please, to give more insight into the 'World' part of the title. You can see the questions below:

• What makes it a World championship?
• What countries from around the World are represented?
• Why is it not called Blackpool dance competition (local as in the past)?
• Is it run by a representative World federation. As with other World dance competitions? 
• Which other countries is it held in?
• Can other event(s) hold a World Northern Soul Dance Championship: so we will have many World champions?
• How do the judges choose a winner?
• How are the judges chosen?
• Does the title mean the winner is the best northern soul dancer in the World?

Thanks in advance

Best

Paul

[Paul-s]

Just want to say thanks for everyone who has joined the conversation.

To me its an important one because other cultures such as Breaking, Hip-Hop, House (loft), Tango etc, strive very hard to preserve the roots of the dance in the face of corporate gentrification of the cultures/style/movements. The work in maintaining the historical roots of the dance in these other styles are predominantly championed by young participants who respect the origin(ators) and recognise the need to know the source of the movement(s).

It's always seemed to me that many people: producers, social media entities, seem to think that dancing to northern soul has no roots or social/economic/political/emotional connection to 'a past'. Which, in my experience, and opinion, is totally wrong. The attitude of erasing its past connection with drugs for instance, is a common feature of this re-branding.

Now, particularly via online media, a person can declare themselves 'World Northern Soul Dance Champion' with no sense of irony or humour and make lazy producers believe that they are, and pay them to pass on this terrible parody of dancing to northern soul.

So, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences (on this thread and the other one about 'how you started dancing to northern soul') it's much appreciated.

Paul-S

[Frankie Crocker]

2 hours ago, Paul-s said:

Just want to say thanks for everyone who has joined the conversation.

To me its an important one because other cultures such as Breaking, Hip-Hop, House (loft), Tango etc, strive very hard to preserve the roots of the dance in the face of corporate gentrification of the cultures/style/movements. The work in maintaining the historical roots of the dance in these other styles are predominantly championed by young participants who respect the origin(ators) and recognise the need to know the source of the movement(s).

It's always seemed to me that many people: producers, social media entities, seem to think that dancing to northern soul has no roots or social/economic/political/emotional connection to 'a past'. Which, in my experience, and opinion, is totally wrong. The attitude of erasing its past connection with drugs for instance, is a common feature of this re-branding.

Now, particularly via online media, a person can declare themselves 'World Northern Soul Dance Champion' with no sense of irony or humour and make lazy producers believe that they are, and pay them to pass on this terrible parody of dancing to northern soul.

So, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences (on this thread and the other one about 'how you started dancing to northern soul') it's much appreciated.

Paul-S

Paul, you’re right to be concerned about the degradation of subculture, particularly dance. Yes, corporate activity has accelerated the process as YouTube clips have spread the antics of attention seekers who give a misleading impression of what Northern dance involves. The Blackpool event featuring the final 24 contestants is another example of corporate degradation of subculture - many of the dancers involved could not dance as they were hopping, skipping, kicking, revolving etc anything but dancing 60’s and 70’s style! At the root of change are the young dancers who now present their lazy, goofy, uncoordinated movements bearing no resemblance to the dancing seen at The Wheel, Torch, Casino and other legendary venues. Facebook has also spread video clips of youngsters holding dance workshops that resemble student union discos, a woefully retrograde occurrence. It is heartening to learn that some venues such as Rugby are keeping faith with proper dance styles so there is hope yet looking on the bright side.

[Paul-s]

1 minute ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Paul, you’re right to be concerned about the degradation of subculture, particularly dance. Yes, corporate activity has accelerated the process as YouTube clips have spread the antics of attention seekers who give a misleading impression of what Northern dance involves. The Blackpool event featuring the final 24 contestants is another example of corporate degradation of subculture - many of the dancers involved could not dance as they were hopping, skipping, kicking, revolving etc anything but dancing 60’s and 70’s style! At the root of change are the young dancers who now present their lazy, goofy, uncoordinated movements bearing no resemblance to the dancing seen at The Wheel, Torch, Casino and other legendary venues. Facebook has also spread video clips of youngsters holding dance workshops that resemble student union discos, a woefully retrograde occurrence. It is heartening to learn that some venues such as Rugby are keeping faith with proper dance styles so there is hope yet looking on the bright side.

Very well summarised...

[Tomo]

Was there over the weekend and spotted Sharon on Friday, she was my tip to win. I spoke with Jack briefly on Saturday afternoon about dancing in his bags and could tell he was passionate about the scene. We missed the first few rounds of the competition but from what we saw most there enjoyed it. To me you do have to take these competitions with a pinch of salt, I do think that northern dancing is subjective, I’m personally a Steve Hinds fan. I’m sure Jack or any of the other previous winners wouldn’t consider themselves to be the best dancer in the world. I agree the title doesn’t say what is on the tin but it does help promote the weekend. The winner is chosen in part by the crowd so if you turn up with a few bus load of mates you stand a good chance of winning (not that any of the winners will have done that). Being a bit of a dancer myself I love to watch the dancing there were some fantastic dancers there in IMHO. A few of the female dancers on the Saturday night were amazing (didn’t see them in the competition). All in all it was an enjoyable weekend, yes there are better nights out but the venue has to be up there with the best. 
 

Tomo

[Paul-s]

38 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Was there over the weekend and spotted Sharon on Friday, she was my tip to win. I spoke with Jack briefly on Saturday afternoon about dancing in his bags and could tell he was passionate about the scene. We missed the first few rounds of the competition but from what we saw most there enjoyed it. To me you do have to take these competitions with a pinch of salt, I do think that northern dancing is subjective, I’m personally a Steve Hinds fan. I’m sure Jack or any of the other previous winners wouldn’t consider themselves to be the best dancer in the world. I agree the title doesn’t say what is on the tin but it does help promote the weekend. The winner is chosen in part by the crowd so if you turn up with a few bus load of mates you stand a good chance of winning (not that any of the winners will have done that). Being a bit of a dancer myself I love to watch the dancing there were some fantastic dancers there in IMHO. A few of the female dancers on the Saturday night were amazing (didn’t see them in the competition). All in all it was an enjoyable weekend, yes there are better nights out but the venue has to be up there with the best. 
 

Tomo

Thanks Tomo,

But, I have to disagree with you on the  "I’m sure Jack or any of the other previous winners wouldn’t consider themselves to be the best dancer in the world".
The last so called World Champion has totally used it to advertise and sell workshops and services. In my research, many I talk to have said that she is not even on the scene, at venues, but developed via YouTube and via Musical Theatre School. You can check out the Instagram page dedicated to promoting this.
So, at the point someone takes themselves so seriously and film makers and classes stem from it (because they have no clue or do no research), for me, it becomes more than a bit of a giggle. It also says something about (dis)respect, narcissism and a total lack of awareness. This is, I think, one of the problems with online over sharing and filming for 15 seconds of fame. 

 

I read this recently and it is a great summary of the online problem of instant gratification and also what is being lost within the scene as a result...

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Paul-s

[Johnmcc]

On 06/11/2023 at 13:20, Jessie Pinkman said:

Why is the World Series called the World Series when only US teams are involved.?

That's always puzzled me.

The makers of Britain's got talent go the opposite way, when they could call their show The Worlds got talent because quite a few of their acts are international but they opt for BGT.

It was initially sponsored by and named after "The World" newspaper.

[Agentsmith]

Steve Hinds: proper dancer, old school if you dont mind the phrase, feels the music and dances accordingly.....

[Tlscapital]

2 hours ago, Paul-s said:

 

 

 Cringe that 'Social' thing. Sam & Kitty 'polished' sound and that 'Tidy & Rough' vid & act / dance is so bad. Puke ! 

[Mickey Finn]

11 hours ago, Paul-s said:

So, at the point someone takes themselves so seriously and film makers and classes stem from it (because they have no clue or do no research), for me, it becomes more than a bit of a giggle. It also says something about (dis)respect, narcissism and a total lack of awareness. This is, I think, one of the problems with online over sharing and filming for 15 seconds of fame.

I read this recently and it is a great summary of the online problem of instant gratification and also what is being lost within the scene as a result...

 

 

Such an important point and sadly all too true for our culture today as a whole.

Kids get this at school from an early age - they are encouraged to "sell" themselves at whatever they do, and as technology develops they get the tools by which to sell themselves even more intensively and collect likes, thumbs up, and whatever else gives them the dopamine rush. No wonder mental health problems among teenagers are so well documented.

I saw the obituary of this remarkable lady today:

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/nov/15/anna-scher-obituary

I remember she had a tv show on Saturday mornings during the 70s which was basically her just doing her classes with young kids given a chance to do something they might never otherwise get a chance to do. Many went on to great things. Kathy Burke tells it best how she was able to open doors for kids who otherwise had nothing from the formal education system. But she also encouraged them to listen to each other and understand how to relate, not just to each other but to an audience. She understood them as people and encouraged them to communicate and listen, rather than just show off.

The wider culture has changed to such an extent that instead of children preferably being seen and not heard, today it's preferable for them to be seen, heard, liked, recognised, followed, famous, but no chance of them being listened to and understood as real people. No surprise if they are too busy performing to listen and understand others. That's a major reason for the disrespect, narcissism, and total lack of awareness, sadly about a lot more than northern soul.

Every older generation tut tuts at the antics of the young. But it's our generation that's responsible for promoting a lot of the nonsense that passes for education these days so to some extent at least we should be mindful of the choices we make and the examples we set.

Fortunately there's a lot of youngsters who are too busy enjoying themselves and the music to bother selling themselves, as the documentary clip shown at September's Blackpool festival showed very clearly. But they are also mindful of the history and eager to understand the legacy they have inherited, and can be trusted to carry it forward in their own respectful way.

[Paul-s]

1 hour ago, Mickey Finn said:

Such an important point and sadly all too true for our culture today as a whole.

Kids get this at school from an early age - they are encouraged to "sell" themselves at whatever they do, and as technology develops they get the tools by which to sell themselves even more intensively and collect likes, thumbs up, and whatever else gives them the dopamine rush. No wonder mental health problems among teenagers are so well documented.

I saw the obituary of this remarkable lady today:

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/nov/15/anna-scher-obituary

I remember she had a tv show on Saturday mornings during the 70s which was basically her just doing her classes with young kids given a chance to do something they might never otherwise get a chance to do. Many went on to great things. Kathy Burke tells it best how she was able to open doors for kids who otherwise had nothing from the formal education system. But she also encouraged them to listen to each other and understand how to relate, not just to each other but to an audience. She understood them as people and encouraged them to communicate and listen, rather than just show off.

The wider culture has changed to such an extent that instead of children preferably being seen and not heard, today it's preferable for them to be seen, heard, liked, recognised, followed, famous, but no chance of them being listened to and understood as real people. No surprise if they are too busy performing to listen and understand others. That's a major reason for the disrespect, narcissism, and total lack of awareness, sadly about a lot more than northern soul.

Every older generation tut tuts at the antics of the young. But it's our generation that's responsible for promoting a lot of the nonsense that passes for education these days so to some extent at least we should be mindful of the choices we make and the examples we set.

Fortunately there's a lot of youngsters who are too busy enjoying themselves and the music to bother selling themselves, as the documentary clip shown at September's Blackpool festival showed very clearly. But they are also mindful of the history and eager to understand the legacy they have inherited, and can be trusted to carry it forward in their own respectful way.

Anna Scher was brilliant, empathetic and compassionate facilitator and dramatist and, as you say, encouraged listening and true connected communication: that human inter-connection has now been replaced with the internet-connection in many ways.

Thanks, a great summary of todays google earth living for the younger generation. The desperate need for the 'like' and often living a 'double life' existence via an invented online persona. A very unhealthy way of validating oneself and much is written about the dangers of this. Its pure fantasy.....

Some can be trusted to carry on the legacy (whatever that may be) and others clearly can not.
The problem is that the ones who are are busy getting into it, for real, real souls, are doing just that. Whilst others, the narcissistic ones (who want to sell it down the swanee for fame and 'likes') use all of their time to promote the facade, and more and more that facade, that parody, is being accepted by media and those outside the scene, as the real thing.

[Mark S]

During the Wigan Casino panel event Tim Brown made a very good point to paraphrase " Everyone has their own version of Wigan Casino" likewise we all have our own version of the NS scene depending on your history depth of involvement etc.           The genie is well and truly out of the bottle now.  I could spend forever getting bent out shape over it but its pointless, futile and frustrating.                                     One way to get things a little bit better would be to ban people from videoing or photography at events and to promote those events as camera free.             From the very early days the scene has shunned the media and evolved without intrusion and many of us took pride in its eliteism and exclusivity. This may not go down to well but I have never cared about getting new blood on the scene and if it dies with me so be it.                                    With more get ups behind me than in front of me going to enjoy myself my own way be selective about where I go and ignore the dross and pretend it's 72 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Mark S

[Rick Scott]

Nicely Put words of Wisdom Mark.

As i have said many times in the past the Damage was Done when the Media Cameras were allowed into the Casino to make, 'THAT' Documentary then followed by by every Tom, Dick and Harry in the Media wanting to get in on the Act and doing it all Pretty Badly.

The scene Started, evolved, and Developed through Word and Mouth and with Flyers put out at each others venues (as long as they didn't CLASH) and you always asked for permission to put flyers out before doing so, and some actually re arranging events so as that didn't happen particularly if they were local, so was the Family type Atmosphere around the original underground Scene, and it would have survived to this day without the Outside Interference of the Media, we didn't Need It and the Majority of the Soul Crowd Didn't Want It as it EVOLVED all by its self . Events were also advertised in Specialist Soul Mags at the time too but that was acceptable as they were aimed at the people On The Scene And In The Know who bought them. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Rick Scott
correction and added info

[Hooker1951]

The Problem is there are more of them than us, and those who don’t bother with the Scene don’t know the difference between us and them and that’s were it gets frustrating and aggravating , When I used to MC I used to say False prophets , False prophets find a cliff and throw them off it, sometimes I think it applies to the NS scene, it always creeps into most music scenes, Eg The original dance Scene, everything gets commercialised  , watered down , main ingredients go missing and are replaced with things to please the masses instead of the dedicated hard core music lovers and Dancers, Maybe it’s time to draw a line in the sand between these Commercial events and the real deal NS events and I don’t mean just rare Soul events I mean in a answer earlier I replied ,advertise as a authentic gritty atmospheric event with dark lighting or none at all, with hard core full on Soul sounds, it would probably frighten most of the pretenders away and make it a risqué scene again without all worlds best dance championship business cheapening and belittling something so strong.

ML

[Paul-s]

14 minutes ago, Hooker1951 said:

The Problem is there are more of them than us, and those who don’t bother with the Scene don’t know the difference between us and them and that’s were it gets frustrating and aggravating , When I used to MC I used to say False prophets , False prophets find a cliff and throw them off it, sometimes I think it applies to the NS scene, it always creeps into most music scenes, Eg The original dance Scene, everything gets commercialised  , watered down , main ingredients go missing and are replaced with things to please the masses instead of the dedicated hard core music lovers and Dancers, Maybe it’s time to draw a line in the sand between these Commercial events and the real deal NS events and I don’t mean just rare Soul events I mean in a answer earlier I replied ,advertise as a authentic gritty atmospheric event with dark lighting or none at all, with hard core full on Soul sounds, it would probably frighten most of the pretenders away and make it a risqué scene again without all worlds best dance championship business cheapening and belittling something so strong.

ML

I totally agree...Sheridens was a real 'Hole in the Wall' gang place that offered exactly that (other venues of course did too, but S's was a more recent one.

[Leicester Boy]

I find the filming of dancing at events to be totally wrong.

Regard my nights and days out as my release and think of the filming as annoying.

Regarding the main point of the topic world northern soul dance champion is best left in the distant past.

[Chalky]

24 minutes ago, Leicester Boy said:

I find the filming of dancing at events to be totally wrong.

Regard my nights and days out as my release and think of the filming as annoying.

Regarding the main point of the topic world northern soul dance champion is best left in the distant past.

I agree, it is no longer about the music or the night out really, its all about them trying to show off, badly all to often.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Chalky

[Soulman58]

An interesting read to what is for me a non subject.  Personally never interested in anything like this.  For me just splits up what may have been a good/great night/day.  Who won, who cares

[Mark S]

1 hour ago, Leicester Boy said:

I find the filming of dancing at events to be totally wrong.

Regard my nights and days out as my release and think of the filming as annoying.

Regarding the main point of the topic world northern soul dance champion is best left in the distant past.

There is Northern soul tv channel  on youtube at the begining of his videos says something like if you see youself on the video and you're not happy tell me and you will be edited out.                This smacks of arrogance and entitlement and certainly no consideration for the comfort of fellow  punters just for likes or views. So wrong 

[Stephen Houghton]

Exceptionaly boring and a waste everybody's time ,yes 40yrs ago but today NO NO NO 

[Paul-s]

20 hours ago, Soulman58 said:

An interesting read to what is for me a non subject.  Personally never interested in anything like this.  For me just splits up what may have been a good/great night/day.  Who won, who cares

If you don't care you don't care. Not all do. Of course i realise that you may be saying its crap and so who cares.
I do care and the attitude of not caring was never a part of the scene for me at least. I care(d) a great deal about my roots in a working class subculture that saved my life in many ways. Hip hop cares and respects, House cares and respects, Capoeira cares and respects and Northern Soul has just as rich and important historical roots. So for me to not care about the soul of it all is impossible. I am built that way, without hesitation, I guess. I do care about the co-optation of the scene.

19 hours ago, Mark S said:

There is Northern soul tv channel  on youtube at the begining of his videos says something like if you see youself on the video and you're not happy tell me and you will be edited out.                This smacks of arrogance and entitlement and certainly no consideration for the comfort of fellow  punters just for likes or views. So wrong 

Totally agree...its unacceptable.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Paul-s

[Zoomsoulblue]

Side comment

went to a Soul night at Leicster a couple of years ago - most of the dancers were about 58 to mid sixties (am 64) then a shuffler came on - this guy jumped up large belly and shuffled just like 75/76 back then anything that you danced to like that was classified as a newie  - I didn’t know the guy but knew he was there back in the day - shit he was good like really good - there’s a saying “when you know - you know”

[Paul-s]

16 hours ago, Zoomsoulblue said:

Side comment

went to a Soul night at Leicster a couple of years ago - most of the dancers were about 58 to mid sixties (am 64) then a shuffler came on - this guy jumped up large belly and shuffled just like 75/76 back then anything that you danced to like that was classified as a newie  - I didn’t know the guy but knew he was there back in the day - shit he was good like really good - there’s a saying “when you know - you know”

Exactly. When you know you know and when you see you see.

But have you seen what clubs like Bristol are saying about people over 30 on the scene? It's really quite disgusting and totally disrespectful. "They smile in your face and all the time they wanna.....etc (O'Jays).

I include some posts that were forwarded to me by the people at Rareclipsnorthernsoul (the spoof/parody page).
They were also sent one telling them to "hang themselves"  after lampooning #northernsoulgirl
Turns out Lilskets is the club producers fake account (and other long-time scene goers, male and female, have also been trolled by this account apparently). The link being that anyone who critiques, lampoons or questions the club is trolled.
The conversation about over 30 years old being pushed out the scene as good thing is between a fake account (Kevin Newey) and #northernsoulgirl

To me this is unacceptable, and we should care, and that's why I am writing and investigating this new phenomenon of keyboard soul and the 'production' values involved.

Make up your own mind.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Paul-s

[Zoomsoulblue]

Paul - don’t bite mate, imagine thinking / being part of something that you fully don’t understand / was never there / and impossible to duplicate due to social media / phones / cameras and dare I say No smoking / let alone scoring gear / ODing and genuinely looking after you’re mates without stabbing them in the back - just to make you look good   On various social media posts - I say poor them - we were in that scene that era 1975 - 1989 and still going today - they cant take away our memories, love for the music or more importantly our opinion

[Mark S]

Dig the new breed.  Just stupid kids talking shite. 

With them and the Hokey Cokey baggy brigade the future is sorted. 

Right I'm off to register to take part in  the Over sixties World heavyweight Northern Soul  dance championships 

[Paul-s]

1 hour ago, Zoomsoulblue said:

Paul - don’t bite mate, imagine thinking / being part of something that you fully don’t understand / was never there / and impossible to duplicate due to social media / phones / cameras and dare I say No smoking / let alone scoring gear / ODing and genuinely looking after you’re mates without stabbing them in the back - just to make you look good   On various social media posts - I say poor them - we were in that scene that era 1975 - 1989 and still going today - they cant take away our memories, love for the music or more importantly our opinion

I agree, I'm not biting my friend.

In fact, its very interesting to write about and expose. They can have as many tantrums and try to erase history as much as they like. It is quite an entitled approach. No time for an apprenticeship, no time for time, or to be part of a scene. You must use a title that announces your entitlement, stand on a stage at your own club to dance so others can see "this is how its done". You have to continually announce yourself as 'soulful'...whilst totally missing the point and the soul. Older DJ's with a profile are invited as a means of validating, but then memes are shared ridiculing older members of the scene (elders and founders). 

The joy is, that it won't survive, its an attitude that thinks it can hijack 5 decades of working class dance culture, gentrify it, cleanse it of its history, repackage it as 'cool'. We have 'lived' lives, not curated them online, we were 'present' in those nighters, in that travelling, in those pharmaceuticals, lost in those record boxes, on the dance floor, 'in' the music, made 'real' friends, supported many clubs, met 'real' souls,  lost many friends too. The arrogance to assume they can gloss over the past, hijack it...mock it, beggars belief.

After just reading Steve Whittles brilliant book (a top man I used to get lifts off at times), it makes me even more determined to expose and challenge the fake northern soul scene that smiles in your face 24/7 declaring it cares.

[Paul-s]

1 hour ago, Mark S said:

Dig the new breed.  Just stupid kids talking shite. 

With them and the Hokey Cokey baggy brigade the future is sorted. 

Right I'm off to register to take part in  the Over sixties World heavyweight Northern Soul  dance championships 

[Petesi]

On 16/11/2023 at 23:44, Agentsmith said:

Steve Hinds: proper dancer, old school if you dont mind the phrase, feels the music and dances accordingly.....

AS DO most of the decent, good or great dancers. A lot (including myself ( Decent)) don`t enter dance comps because it`s a personal choice of which records to dance to and performing for some other persons choice of tracks defeats the whole object, but if you just take it as a bit of promotional fun for the event then no harm no foul.

[Wiggyflat]

There a nice bit of footage on here from 1978 showing one style of dancing.

(4)

Soulboys and Scooters - YouTube

Edited November 25, 2023 by Wiggyflat

[Dobber]

13 minutes ago, Wiggyflat said:

There a nice bit of footage on here from 1978 showing one style of dancing.

(4)

Soulboys and Scooters - YouTube

That is one weird vid

cool dancing from the fella though