Sounds typifying classic venues

[Magpie69]

 

As a teenager in the late sixties I was a huge fan of the soul music of the time - Stax, Atlantic, Motown; Otis, Sam and Dave, Isleys, Marvin Gaye etc. - before it all went a bit psychedelic and (worse), Philly and disco, and my tastes veered in another direction. I’m therefore not of the “Northern” generation.

Over the last ten or so years, as a result of my other half returning to the “scene” after a period away from it (she’s a dancer, not a collector or archivist), I have come to enjoy attending NS events as an observer. 

I realise that there are a range of historically iconic venues, and I am aware of the general chronology, but I hear and read references to the typical sounds of these venues as “Torch”, “Casino”, “Cleethorpes” etc tracks. 

Without me seeming to be too “divvy”, would anyone like to suggest a list of ten classics representative of what would be heard at each of the following venues:

Golden Torch

Twisted Wheel

Casino

Blackpool Mecca

Stafford

Cleethorpes

Clifton Hall

Any others?

 

I’m hoping that my self- confessed ignorance does not provoke the “If you know, you know”, “Johnny come lately” or “divvy” responses I’ve had  from those who see themselves as the “keepers of the (faith) keys” when asking for opinions on this site previously. The post might even provoke an interesting discussion among contributors…..

 

[Thinksmart]

It maybe worth searching discogs and looking at track listing on venue themed CDs and LP compilations. Also there are a load of Northern Soul history books, now very cheap online that provide such lists

[Magpie69]

Thank you. Will give that a go.

[Torch56]

Interesting idea. I find the what played and where played fascinating, but another consideration is when they were  played. Most of the iconic clubs had a shelf life of several years and so what was played initially changed considerably over time. Even Va Vas which only ran for a matter of months saw a virtually changed playlist by the end of its existence from the one that started out.

Having said that my memories of clubs very much revolves around the records played, after all they were the main drivers of the atmosphere created, so I look forward to this discussion.

[Chalky]

There is a comprehensive history of the Top of The World in Stafford in the mid 80s on my site…over 60 podcasts to listen to as well

https://www.soulunderground.co.uk

[Magpie69]

Thanks for that. Will try to find time for a listen.

[Thinksmart]

To ease into venues - it may be worth listening back to Richard Searling's shows on Mixcloud.  He often does ones related to specific venues.  Back in his BBC local radio days, he would mix the songs with interviews from DJs and people who went, which I always found nice.  Colin Curtis and Ian Levine have Mixcloud shows for Blackpool Mecca of course too (but some of that will be at the Modern/funky end of Northern Soul you may be less interested in).  There's a lot there to be found at Mixcloud.  I heartily recommend Chalky's that he mentioned before.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Thinksmart

[Magpie69]

[Torch56]

[Torch56]

Taken from the back cover of the Destiny LP from 1979, The Record Collector Volume 1.

[Torch56]

[Torch56]

Here's the rest of the sounds on the LP and where, when, and by whom they were played. The missing year on number 19, Blowing my mind to pieces, is 1973.

[Rick Cooper]

From the records played at The Torch the ones that stand out for me are those that I heard for the first time there even if they had been played elsewhere first. 

Jimmy Thomas - Beautiful Night

Chubby Checker - You just Don't Know

Pearlean Gray - I Don't Want To Cry

Superiors- What Would I Do

Tymes- What Would I Do

Dramatics- Inky Winky Wang Dang Doo

Lenis Guess - Just Ask Me

Exciters- Number One

Eddie Parker- Love You Baby

Sam and Kitty- I've Got Something Good

All fast and energetic, just like the people there.

[Roburt]

WHEEL CD tracks ...

Lou Johnson–Magic Potion3:10

Bunker Hill–Hide And Go Seek2:26

James Carr–That's What I Want To Know1:53

Lee Dorsey–Ride Your Pony2:53

Oscar Toney Jr.–No Sad Songs2:00

Moses* & Joshua Dillard–My Elusive Dreams2:19

James & Bobby Purify–Shake A Tail Feather2:13

Little Richard–A Little Bit Of Something (Beats A Whole Lot Of Nothing)3:04

Major Lance–It's The Beat2:27

Larry Williams & Johnny Watson–A Quitter Never Wins2:38

Al Greene & The Soul Mates–Don't Leave Me2:09

Clifford Curry–I Can't Get A Hold Of Myself2:06

Bob Kuban & The In-Men*–The Cheater2:40

Shirley* & The Shirelles–Look What You've Done To My Heart3:11

James & Bobby Purify–Let Love Come Between Us2:28

The Spellbinders–Help Me (Get Myself Together Again)2:25

Peaches & Herb–I Need Your Love So Desperately2:35

The Bandwagon*–Breakin' Down The Walls Of Heartache2:38

Bob Brady & The Con-Chords*–Everybody's Going To The Love-In2:49

The Incredibles (2)–There's Nothing Else To Say2:27

Shirley Ellis–Soul Time2:40

Major Lance–Ain't No Soul (Left In These Old Shoes)2:25

Billy Butler–Right Track2:27

The Vibrations–Cause You're Mine2:12

Sandi Sheldon–You're Gonna Make Me Love You

TORCH CD .... 

Lou Johnson–Unsatisfied2:35

The Virginia Wolves–Stay1:38

Major Lance–Investigate2:36

Roy Hamilton (5)–Crackin' Up Over You2:18

The Ovations–They Say2:06

Bobbi Lynn–Earthquake2:12

Phillip Mitchell–Free For All (Winner Takes All)2:56

Little Richard–I Don't Want To Discuss It2:19

The Triumphs (8)–I'm Coming To Your Rescue2:25

The Exciters–Blowing Up My Mind2:48

Robert Knight–Love On A Mountain Top2:31

The Carstairs–He Who Picks A Rose2:35

Willie Kendrick–Change Your Ways2:28

The Glories–I Worship You Baby2:33

Major Lance–You Don't Want Me No More2:11

The Cavaliers–Hold On To My Baby2:29

Herb Ward–Honest To Goodness2:52

George Carrow–Angel Baby (Don't You Ever Leave Me)3:06

The Vibrations–Gonna Get Along Without You Now2:10

Larry Williams & Johnny Watson–Too Late2:18

The Sweet Things–I'm In A World Of Trouble2:33

Johnny Moore (5)–Walk Like A Man2:27

The Nite-Liters–K-Jee4:01

The Lorelei–S.t.o.p.2:46

The Trammps–Scrub Board

MECCA ....

Morris Chestnut–Too Darn Soulful

Lorraine Chandler–I Can't Hold On

Lee David (2)–Temptation Is Calling My Name

Bernie Williams–Ever Again

Tony Middleton–Paris Blues

Lynn Randell*–Stranger In My Arms

The Van Dykes–Save My Love For A Rainy Day

Lou Courtney–Trying To Find My Woman

Susan Barrett–What's It Gonna Be

Shane Martin (2)–I Need You

The M.V.P.'s–Turnin' My Heartbeat Up

Robert Knight–Branded

Laura Greene–Moonlight, Music & You

T.D. Valentine–Love Trap

Lou Ragland–I Travel Alone

The Uptights–Shy Guy

Bobby Lester–Hang Up Your Hang-Ups

Patti Austin–Didn't Say A Word

Lou Edwards & Today's People*–Talkin' 'Bout Poor Folks Thinkin' 'Bout My Folks

Van McCoy–Soul Improvisations Pt 2

The Trammps–Hold Back The Night

Written-By – E. Young*, N. Harris*, R. Baker*

Written-By – E. Young*, N. Harris*, R. Baker*

The Brothers–Are You Ready For This

The Philly Devotions*–I Just Can't Say Goodbye

Earth, Wind & Fire–Happy Feelin'

Aquarian Dream (2)–Phoenix

CASINO ... 

Paul Anka–I Can't Help Loving You2:37

Dana Valery–You Don't Know Where Your Interest Lies2:15

Dean Courtney–I'll Always Need You2:08

Michael & Raymond–Man Without A Woman2:03

Reparata & The Delrons*–Panic2:11

Nancy Ames–I Don't Want To Talk About It2:06

Spiral Staircase*–More Today Than Yesterday2:51

Percy Wiggins–It Didn't Take Much (For Me To Fall In Love)2:45

Christopher Cerf–Sweet Music2:20

Billy Joe Royal–Hearts Desire2:42

The Charmaines*–Eternally2:24

Otis Blackwell–It's All Over Me2:43

Taj Mahal–(Ain't That) A Lot Of Love4:01

The Jades–I'm Where It's At2:31

Jimmy Fraser–Of Hope & Dreams & Tombstones2:38

Don Ray (5)–Born A Loser1:46

Derek & Ray*–Interplay3:04

Beverly Ann–You've Got Your Mind On Other Things2:19

Sue Lynn*–Don't Pity Me2:40

Honey Townsend–The World Again2:38

The Seven Souls–I Still Love You2:24

Rick Sheppard (3)–Can We Share It3:14

Judy Freeman & Blackrock–Hold On2:31

Gerri Granger–I Go To Pieces (Everytime)2:30

Tobi Legend–Time Will Pass You By

FROM RECENT DISCUSSIONS on FACEBOOK, I'd have thought the likes of 'Times A Wasting' & 'Just Like The Weather' should be added to the Torch listing.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Roburt

[Magpie69]

Thanks, Roburt, just what I was looking for.

[Solidsoul]

Records I think of as pure Wigan Casino all-nighter tracks.  Some may have been played elsewhere first, but Wigan is where I first heard them. 

* Being Without You - Maurice Williams - Dessu.

* You've Been Away - Rubin - Kapp

*Baby Without You - Danny Monday - Modern

 *Don't Take It Out On This World - Adams Apples - Brunswick

*When He's Not Around - Rose Valentine and the Sisters Three ( Little Ann)

*You Don't Love Me - Epitome Of Sound - Sandbag

*The Jokes On You - Kenny Gamble - Arctic

*I Don't Like To Lose - Joe Matthews ( Cecil Washington)

*Too Darn Soulful - Morris Chestnut Amy

*You Better Go Go - Matt Lucas - Karen

*Sitting In My Class - Ronnie McNeir - Deto

*My World Is On Fire - Jimmy Mack - Palmer

and a whole lot more!

Edited September 22, 2023 by Solidsoul

[Torch56]

I'm sure all of the following were played elsewhere around the same time but I heard them on my only visit to Blackpool Mecca, Easter Saturday, 1972.

Ain't no more room   The Kittens

Too Late   Larry Williams and Johnny Watson

K-Jee   The Nite Liters

You're gonna make me love you   Sandi Sheldon

Gonna get along without you now   The Vibrations

I don't wanna discuss it   Little Richard

Reach out  The San Remo Golden Strings

There were obviously many more sounds played, than the ones listed, but somehow these have stuck in my mind when I recall that night.

Sandi Sheldon and the Kittens each received two plays. I'd never heard K-Jee or Reach Out before. I don't think either had been played at the Catacombs up to that point. In fact I can't recall ever hearing K-Jee there.

Somebody who frequented the Mecca in, say, 1975 would have heard a completely different playlist. Which set of sounds most typified the venue is problematic since they both did, but at different times.

[Magpie69]

A big thank you to all who have responded. Very helpful

[Roburt]

RE: Ain't no more room   The Kittens  .... 

Never went to the Mecca, so never heard it there ....

I did however have my own copy in 1968. Purchased from Ray Avery's In Gallatin, though they scratched the DJ COPY text off the label. I played it when I DJ'd @ the Attic in Donny in the 60's.  

[Happy Feet]

12 hours ago, Torch56 said:

Taken from the back cover of the Destiny LP from 1979, The Record Collector Volume 1.

I don't believe Rob Smith played either of the tracks he's credited to have played first in 79 ? Maybe played yes but surely requested.

[Chalky]

7 hours ago, Happy Feet said:

I don't believe Rob Smith played either of the tracks he's credited to have played first in 79 ? Maybe played yes but surely requested.

Both oldies by 1979

[Happy Feet]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

Both oldies by 1979

I Know , that's what I was getting at , and so should the person who compiled the listing for production and we knock lazy journalism lol

[Torch56]

My apologies. I have created this problem by presenting incomplete information from the back cover of the LP. The two tracks referred to were covers by the Echoes and Cassietta Jones and not the original versions by Garnett Mimms and the Incredibles.

Since it was a Destiny LP, I am assuming Neil Rushton provided the information as to where, when and by whom played and I would assume it would be accurate.

The Cassietta Jones version of There's Nothing... uses the original backing track and was made in 1967. The Echoes is a 1979 tailor made and will not live long in the memory.

[Clee93]

I will say this is strictly through my own research online or by talking to people who actually were there as I'm someone who was born waaaay after the hay day of any of the clubs mentioned in the initial post. It seems widely considered that Cleethorpes acted as a feeder to other clubs during its time and although being slightly pushed to the background in comparison to other clubs has lots of discoveries under its belt, with tunes either being played there first or broken there.

The following artists still hold association with Cleethorpes either through playlists or uploaded tape recordings: Shedloads of modern I couldn't even begin to list, class oldies like Carl Spencer as well as big money tracks by Don Varner & The Ivories whilst being more widely known for pushing the harder-edged out-and-out dancers like Frankie Crocker, Black Nasty, The Crow, Roscoe & Friends, JJ Callier & Skull Snaps and the like... Personally, I don't think there's ever been enough emphasis or acclaim put on Cleethorpes but it's there if you look for it. However, when you talk about it to those who went, they say it had an edge on some of the other clubs at the time and is revered by many as one of the best. By the sounds of it, it marched to the beat of its own drum and dancers were said to have moved differently, in their own style which I can only imagine is directly related to the 'progressive' sound & pushing an across-the-board format with modern and oldies played side by side.

Additionally, from what I've read on here when Cleethorpes ran it was noticeably quieter at Wigan & was the leading niter in 76 for 13 months on the trot. I remember reading a great comment on a Blogspot post ages ago where it said something like 'Wigan had the clap but Cleethorpes had the stomp' which they say could be heard ringing out across the promenade as you approached it... Haha, proper ace. 

I love hearing stories about the plethora of different sounds that got played in my town as aforementioned there's only so much you can find without really getting on your hands and knees and trawling through posts on here, Facebook & the occasional auction write-up, looking forward to some people sharing stuff I might have not heard due to my age... I remember reading a while ago on Facebook that Mary Chapman's daughter is planning on putting together a book at some point which I hope happens as that will hopefully help fill in some blindspots.

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Clee93

[Solidsoul]

On 23/09/2023 at 11:45, Clee93 said:

I will say this is strictly through my own research online or by talking to people about Cleethorpes

 

Cleethorpes is a town in Lincolnshire.

It is not a venue!

There's so many times people say Cleethorpes this and that, but they are all talking about different venues at different era's of Northern Soul history.

It would be a lot more helpful for people to name the venues and approx dates, and not just the name of the town.

The allnighter in the 1970's was two different venues. The Pier and the Winter Gardens.  Feb 1975 till Nov 1976. After that it was alldayers etc till the 1980's.

Also if I remember correctly the allnighters went on to be fortnightly, not weekly.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Solidsoul

[Roburt]

TALKING OF CLEETHORPES ...

I used to attend a soul club in Cleethorpes back in the summer of 1966. My scooter broke down while I was there for a 2 week spell & I had to leave it with a local dealer for repair. Had to hitch a lift back to Donny on the day of the World Cup Final (& return to Cleggy a week later to pick up my scooter). I should be able to remember the name of the club as I spent most of the nights that summer in the place but the intervening 57 years have dulled my memory. I do remember that Fred Benson used to DJ at the place later in the 60's, maybe he remembers it's name.

Bought my 1st pair of Levi's whilst there; a guy had 'borrowed them' from a local men's fashion shop & wanted to move them on. So they came cheap -- I was on school summer holidays after taking my O Levels, so didn't have enough money to pay full price for a pair of Levis ... well on top of buying 2 mohair made to measure suits, adding to my record collection & keeping my Lambretta on the road).  

Edited September 24, 2023 by Roburt

[Clee93]

4 hours ago, Solidsoul said:

Cleethorpes is a town in Lincolnshire.

It is not a venue!

There's so many times people say Cleethorpes this and that, but they are all talking about different venues at different era's of Northern Soul history.

It would be a lot more helpful for people to name the venues and approx dates, and not just the name of the town.

The allnighter in the 1970's was two different venues. The Pier and the Winter Gardens.  Feb 1975 till Nov 1976. After that it was alldayers etc till the 1980's.

Also if I remember correctly the allnighters were fortnightly, not weekly.

That’s correct to be fair, Cleethorpes is a town and not a single venue and to be honest my initial input intentionally left out the where and when’s due to the fact of the matter is I wasn’t born & my reply gravitated around the sounds associated with the place which is a bit more fragmented and unfortunately not as straight forward as others at the time.

However, aside from the Lincolnshire Soul Club events there were other allniters in the town that ran in the 70s into the 80s and even afterwards albeit not as regular as other clubs of the day that were run under different promotions like After Dark Promotion which also held events in Bradford & Nottingham, East Coast Connection who also ran allniters as well as Soul Time. Tbf, I never actually stated that it ran weekly but below I’ve included a poster from the first Talk of the North 1st anniversary ‘soul weekend’ among others where it also states ‘every week’ on the right hand side but I couldn’t tell you for certain but there are some clues of when these events ran within the wording in the varying posters I’ve uploaded here from different years.

Below are a couple of the all niter posters from Soul Time from when Richard Searling played the Winter Gardens & here is a recording when Richard played the Pier between 1975-78.

I was just grouping them in together for sake of convenience as a case for the overall Cleethorpes sound since the Winter Gardens initially ran side by side the Pier niters.

 

*above is an East Coast Connection All dayer poster from 30th January 1977 and below is an After Dark one from the 80s.

If you really wanted to split hairs we should also make note that Mike Walker attempted to put niters on at this same time to detract from success of the Pier Allniters which failed 4 times before they were jacked in which I’m afraid I again, do not have the dates of, hopefully someone can remember and share their knowledge.

On a separate note, I’ve been compiling everything I can find online from flyers, photos of the people who went, badges & patches. If anyone has any ephemera from Cleethorpes niters or dayers I’d love to see it!

Edited September 23, 2023 by Clee93

[Solidsoul]

The Pier advert must have been one of  the last allnighters there, as the authorities got it closed early 1976. That's why they moved to the Winter Gardens. But the authorities got that stoped by November 1976.  East Coast connection are advertising alldayers as the allnighters could not get a licence.

The Winter Gardens "Soul Time" advert and "After Dark" I remember from the early 1980's. Things had relaxed. It seemed a different era in the Northern Soul world by then.

But my point is people keep saying this and that about Cleethorpes, but it's like saying they used to play Brooks and Jerry "I Got What It Takes" at Manchester also they used to play "Feminine Ingenuity" by Ruby at Manchester!! Both true but different venues in totally different times!

Edited September 23, 2023 by Solidsoul

[Torch56]

There is a tendency to ignore changes of playlists within the time frame of a venue's shelf life. This was the point I was trying to make in my Blackpool Mecca post. I'd hazard a guess that Rick Cooper's experience of the Torch was around the end of '72 and the beginning of '73. That assessment is based purely on the list of sounds he has highlighted that stood out for him. They were all big sounds then, at that time. A Torch playlist from earlier in '72 would have been completely different.

[Clee93]

12 hours ago, Solidsoul said:

The Pier advert must have been one of  the last allnighters there, as the authorities got it closed early 1976. That's why they moved to the Winter Gardens. But the authorities got that stoped by November 1976.  East Coast connection are advertising alldayers as the allnighters could not get a licence.

The Winter Gardens "Soul Time" advert and "After Dark" I remember from the early 1980's. Things had relaxed. It seemed a different era in the Northern Soul world by then.

But my point is people keep saying this and that about Cleethorpes, but it's like saying they used to play Brooks and Jerry "I Got What It Takes" at Manchester also they used to play "Feminine Ingenuity" by Ruby at Manchester!! Both true but different venues in totally different times!

I do get what you’re saying but they were literally down promenade less than a half a mile away from each other, organised by the same people and started out with Alldayers to begin with at the Winter Gardens.

Regardless of the end of the pier its two venues which ran in tandem that are always mentioned in the same breath so I don’t think it’s a major reach to umbrella them as the majority of the tunes I originally mentioned are all recognised as ‘Cleethorpes sounds’

Below I’ve included a snippet of the write up & another poster from the first allniter in February from Soulstrutter website.

‘The all-nighters were the brainchild of Mary Chapman who ran the Lincolnshire Soul Club and went under the banner The Talk Of The North. She had run a few all-dayers at the Winter Gardens prior to the all-nighter which ran fortnightly and then later weekly. To cater for the popularity of the event she later ran a parallel nighter at the Winter Gardens in tandem and punters would move between both venues. They ran for just over a year before they were stopped by the council 'allegedly' over safety issues of The Pier. but more than likely due to the usual story i.e. drugs.

The first all-nighter passed by almost unnoticed by Blues & Soul magazine which was largely at the behest of Chapman who didn't want the same publicity that was raging in the media over Wigan Casino in 1975 and preferred to keep Cleethorpes low profile. The media didn't get that this was an 'underground' scene that didn't want mass media exposure or attention.’’

Here is the TOTN 1st anniversary niter poster from Feb 21st in 1976.

So from what it sounds like is between February 75 and the early months of 76 it looks like Lincolnshire Soul Club must have upped the niters from fortnitely to weekly for them to have it on the anniversary poster & potentially why some people have stated it was the leading niter during that timeframe which is interesting but I personally don’t think that detracts from the sounds that would have been played, most likely at both of the venues. 

Additionally, a guy named Graham commented on the page with an interesting addition in June last year surrounding the closure of the Pier niters…

‘I was there for every single one of the all-nighters, plus all of Mary's other events. Why you may ask? I designed and built the sound system which was used for them all and being based in Peterborough, I also delivered it and set it up at each event. It's good to see so many people remember those nights and I hope that continues. You mention the loss of the pier as a venue - I was involved in the discussions with the council and they actually wanted to sell the pier because they had been losing money running it. Yes, we were raided by the local police - claiming there was a bomb scare to evacuate everyone while they searched the building. NOTHING WAS FOUND, but the drug stories continued in the local press. No-one apart from Mary knew anything about my background as a musician and sound engineer and I kept quiet about it at the time, but I have continued playing in bands right up to the present day. Keep that faith! Graham’

Anyway, it would be cool to get some of the DJs who did both venues thoughts on sounds from both of the venues to see how the policy might have differed between the two during the dayers, niters and between the different time frames…

Will be coming up to 50th anniversary of the first Pier Allniter soon enough and I highly doubt it will receive the national press what Wigan has had in the past 2 weeks or so

Edited September 24, 2023 by Clee93

[Eddiefoster]

On 22/09/2023 at 18:26, Roburt said:

WHEEL CD tracks ...

Lou Johnson–Magic Potion3:10

Bunker Hill–Hide And Go Seek2:26

James Carr–That's What I Want To Know1:53

Lee Dorsey–Ride Your Pony2:53

Oscar Toney Jr.–No Sad Songs2:00

Moses* & Joshua Dillard–My Elusive Dreams2:19

James & Bobby Purify–Shake A Tail Feather2:13

Little Richard–A Little Bit Of Something (Beats A Whole Lot Of Nothing)3:04

Major Lance–It's The Beat2:27

Larry Williams & Johnny Watson–A Quitter Never Wins2:38

Al Greene & The Soul Mates–Don't Leave Me2:09

Clifford Curry–I Can't Get A Hold Of Myself2:06

Bob Kuban & The In-Men*–The Cheater2:40

Shirley* & The Shirelles–Look What You've Done To My Heart3:11

James & Bobby Purify–Let Love Come Between Us2:28

The Spellbinders–Help Me (Get Myself Together Again)2:25

Peaches & Herb–I Need Your Love So Desperately2:35

The Bandwagon*–Breakin' Down The Walls Of Heartache2:38

Bob Brady & The Con-Chords*–Everybody's Going To The Love-In2:49

The Incredibles (2)–There's Nothing Else To Say2:27

Shirley Ellis–Soul Time2:40

Major Lance–Ain't No Soul (Left In These Old Shoes)2:25

Billy Butler–Right Track2:27

The Vibrations–Cause You're Mine2:12

Sandi Sheldon–You're Gonna Make Me Love You

TORCH CD .... 

Lou Johnson–Unsatisfied2:35

The Virginia Wolves–Stay1:38

Major Lance–Investigate2:36

Roy Hamilton (5)–Crackin' Up Over You2:18

The Ovations–They Say2:06

Bobbi Lynn–Earthquake2:12

Phillip Mitchell–Free For All (Winner Takes All)2:56

Little Richard–I Don't Want To Discuss It2:19

The Triumphs (8)–I'm Coming To Your Rescue2:25

The Exciters–Blowing Up My Mind2:48

Robert Knight–Love On A Mountain Top2:31

The Carstairs–He Who Picks A Rose2:35

Willie Kendrick–Change Your Ways2:28

The Glories–I Worship You Baby2:33

Major Lance–You Don't Want Me No More2:11

The Cavaliers–Hold On To My Baby2:29

Herb Ward–Honest To Goodness2:52

George Carrow–Angel Baby (Don't You Ever Leave Me)3:06

The Vibrations–Gonna Get Along Without You Now2:10

Larry Williams & Johnny Watson–Too Late2:18

The Sweet Things–I'm In A World Of Trouble2:33

Johnny Moore (5)–Walk Like A Man2:27

The Nite-Liters–K-Jee4:01

The Lorelei–S.t.o.p.2:46

The Trammps–Scrub Board

MECCA ....

Morris Chestnut–Too Darn Soulful

Lorraine Chandler–I Can't Hold On

Lee David (2)–Temptation Is Calling My Name

Bernie Williams–Ever Again

Tony Middleton–Paris Blues

Lynn Randell*–Stranger In My Arms

The Van Dykes–Save My Love For A Rainy Day

Lou Courtney–Trying To Find My Woman

Susan Barrett–What's It Gonna Be

Shane Martin (2)–I Need You

The M.V.P.'s–Turnin' My Heartbeat Up

Robert Knight–Branded

Laura Greene–Moonlight, Music & You

T.D. Valentine–Love Trap

Lou Ragland–I Travel Alone

The Uptights–Shy Guy

Bobby Lester–Hang Up Your Hang-Ups

Patti Austin–Didn't Say A Word

Lou Edwards & Today's People*–Talkin' 'Bout Poor Folks Thinkin' 'Bout My Folks

Van McCoy–Soul Improvisations Pt 2

The Trammps–Hold Back The Night

Written-By – E. Young*, N. Harris*, R. Baker*

Written-By – E. Young*, N. Harris*, R. Baker*

The Brothers–Are You Ready For This

The Philly Devotions*–I Just Can't Say Goodbye

Earth, Wind & Fire–Happy Feelin'

Aquarian Dream (2)–Phoenix

CASINO ... 

Paul Anka–I Can't Help Loving You2:37

Dana Valery–You Don't Know Where Your Interest Lies2:15

Dean Courtney–I'll Always Need You2:08

Michael & Raymond–Man Without A Woman2:03

Reparata & The Delrons*–Panic2:11

Nancy Ames–I Don't Want To Talk About It2:06

Spiral Staircase*–More Today Than Yesterday2:51

Percy Wiggins–It Didn't Take Much (For Me To Fall In Love)2:45

Christopher Cerf–Sweet Music2:20

Billy Joe Royal–Hearts Desire2:42

The Charmaines*–Eternally2:24

Otis Blackwell–It's All Over Me2:43

Taj Mahal–(Ain't That) A Lot Of Love4:01

The Jades–I'm Where It's At2:31

Jimmy Fraser–Of Hope & Dreams & Tombstones2:38

Don Ray (5)–Born A Loser1:46

Derek & Ray*–Interplay3:04

Beverly Ann–You've Got Your Mind On Other Things2:19

Sue Lynn*–Don't Pity Me2:40

Honey Townsend–The World Again2:38

The Seven Souls–I Still Love You2:24

Rick Sheppard (3)–Can We Share It3:14

Judy Freeman & Blackrock–Hold On2:31

Gerri Granger–I Go To Pieces (Everytime)2:30

Tobi Legend–Time Will Pass You By

FROM RECENT DISCUSSIONS on FACEBOOK, I'd have thought the likes of 'Times A Wasting' & 'Just Like The Weather' should be added to the Torch listing.

Rian Rae told me that he played the Vibrations Cause You're Mine and Love In Them There Hills off the Direction LP at the Wheel

[Roburt]

 .... from my post above ... >> I spent most of the nights that summer in the place but the intervening 57 years have dulled my memory. I do remember that Fred Benson used to DJ at the place later in the 60's, maybe he remembers it's name.

Looking up on an old thread, it could well be that the 1966 Cleethorpes soul nights were held in the Purple Onion Club which was in Cleggy Market Street. I seem to remember the club even hosted live acts in 1967 (Alan Bown, Fantastics, etc).

Edited September 24, 2023 by Roburt

[Mike]

11 hours ago, Clee93 said:

I do get what you’re saying but they were literally down promenade less than a half a mile away from each other, organised by the same people and started out with Alldayers to begin with at the Winter Gardens.

Regardless of the end of the pier its two venues which ran in tandem that are always mentioned in the same breath so I don’t think it’s a major reach to umbrella them as the majority of the tunes I originally mentioned are all recognised as ‘Cleethorpes sounds’

Below I’ve included a snippet of the write up & another poster from the first allniter in February from Soulstrutter website.

‘The all-nighters were the brainchild of Mary Chapman who ran the Lincolnshire Soul Club and went under the banner The Talk Of The North. She had run a few all-dayers at the Winter Gardens prior to the all-nighter which ran fortnightly and then later weekly. To cater for the popularity of the event she later ran a parallel nighter at the Winter Gardens in tandem and punters would move between both venues. They ran for just over a year before they were stopped by the council 'allegedly' over safety issues of The Pier. but more than likely due to the usual story i.e. drugs.

The first all-nighter passed by almost unnoticed by Blues & Soul magazine which was largely at the behest of Chapman who didn't want the same publicity that was raging in the media over Wigan Casino in 1975 and preferred to keep Cleethorpes low profile. The media didn't get that this was an 'underground' scene that didn't want mass media exposure or attention.’’

Here is the TOTN 1st anniversary niter poster from Feb 21st in 1976.

So from what it sounds like is between February 75 and the early months of 76 it looks like Lincolnshire Soul Club must have upped the niters from fortnitely to weekly for them to have it on the anniversary poster & potentially why some people have stated it was the leading niter during that timeframe which is interesting but I personally don’t think that detracts from the sounds that would have been played, most likely at both of the venues. 

Additionally, a guy named Graham commented on the page with an interesting addition in June last year surrounding the closure of the Pier niters…

‘I was there for every single one of the all-nighters, plus all of Mary's other events. Why you may ask? I designed and built the sound system which was used for them all and being based in Peterborough, I also delivered it and set it up at each event. It's good to see so many people remember those nights and I hope that continues. You mention the loss of the pier as a venue - I was involved in the discussions with the council and they actually wanted to sell the pier because they had been losing money running it. Yes, we were raided by the local police - claiming there was a bomb scare to evacuate everyone while they searched the building. NOTHING WAS FOUND, but the drug stories continued in the local press. No-one apart from Mary knew anything about my background as a musician and sound engineer and I kept quiet about it at the time, but I have continued playing in bands right up to the present day. Keep that faith! Graham’

Anyway, it would be cool to get some of the DJs who did both venues thoughts on sounds from both of the venues to see how the policy might have differed between the two during the dayers, niters and between the different time frames…

Will be coming up to 50th anniversary of the first Pier Allniter soon enough and I highly doubt it will receive the national press what Wigan has had in the past 2 weeks or so

 

A link to the original article quoted in here

https://soulstrutter.blogspot.com/2022/02/cleethorpes-pier-all-nighter-47th.html

 

Just a quick reminder of our policy on posting such below

Understand that wasn't the full original article but perhaps a shorted clip and a link to the article would have worked better...

 

No full 3rd party Articles without permission

Please do not post complete third-party articles from other websites/magazine onto Soul Source (unless you get permission of the website/author first)

To inform members about a third-party article that may be of interest, you can post a title and a brief clip highlighting the content along with a link to the full article. Doing this avoids any potential copyright issues

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/source-help/content-guidelines/forum-guidelines-r38/

 

[Clee93]

3 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

A link to the original article quoted in here

https://soulstrutter.blogspot.com/2022/02/cleethorpes-pier-all-nighter-47th.html

 

Just a quick reminder of our policy on posting such below

Understand that wasn't the full original article but perhaps a shorted clip and a link to the article would have worked better...

 

No full 3rd party Articles without permission

Please do not post complete third-party articles from other websites/magazine onto Soul Source (unless you get permission of the website/author first)

To inform members about a third-party article that may be of interest, you can post a title and a brief clip highlighting the content along with a link to the full article. Doing this avoids any potential copyright issues

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/source-help/content-guidelines/forum-guidelines-r38/

 

Thanks Mike, sorry didn’t realise that but will bare it in mind for future if I’m quoting anything from an outside source!

[Solidsoul]

Top Of The World - Stafford - 1982 till early Feb 1986. All-Nighters. Top Dog Soul Club. Many leading Dj's and collectors played some excellent records.

Some memorable to me on my visits there.

*Stop Overlooking Me - Cairos

*Somebody New - Danny Moore

*Try Me, For A New Love- Junior McCants

* The Naughty Boy - Jackie Day

*Someday - The Tempests

*You Don't Even Know My Name - Hy-Tones

*Make A Change - Johnny Rogers

*Don't Let Him Hurt You -Les Chansonettes

*Think It Over Baby - The Groovettes

*Baby Take Me Back - Johnny Gilliam

Plus lots more and more great records

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Solidsoul

[Magpie69]

Wow! Thanks to all who responded to my post. There’s a lot for me to digest here. Seems my inkling that it might provoke some discussion was correct. Thanks again for the inputs.

[Simon T]

I don't know anything about these and who compiled them.

[Torch56]

I first went to Stafford in August 1985. My first visit to a serious venue for over ten years. Somethings were very different. Apart from the obvious changes in dress and hair styles, the tempo of records now had greater range. There were still up-tempo items but now they were supplemented by slower paced stuff which was equally accepted by the punters.

What hadn't changed was the edge of moody excitement in the queue outside and especially in the smaller room upstairs before the main hall was opened for business. The first record I heard played there matched this mood perfectly: the Metros, Since I Found My Baby. Now I'm sure this probably received plays before 1985, but not to my ears and, unfamiliar with it as I was, its haunting quality fitted in with the underground feel of the occasion. The DJ added to this alternative feel by wearing a black coat whilst playing the records, few of which I knew, but would become familiar with in ensuing months.

The one real stand out sound, even on first hearing, was Sleepless Nights. Originally played ,as I understand, at Wigan circa 1979, it instantly registered as a record that matched my criterion of what top drawer material should sound like and would have made it in any era.

Some other sounds that I associate with the venue and struck a favourable chord with me were:

Angelina oh Angelina   Stewart Ames. - This was very popular and deservedly so. "The biggest thing to hit the dance floor in months" according to George Sharp, who was the black-coated DJ I referred to earlier. Writing in Derek Pearson's Shades of Soul, he described the muffled shouting and screaming in the background as a "weakness" of the track. However, I disagree and think it adds to the atmosphere.

Try my love   Troy Dodds. - "Absolute monster" according to George. A Ted Massey regular play at The Central Hotel, Cannock later on in the decade

Can't do without you   Dusty Wilson.-"I'm a gonna play Russian Roulette, puttin' six bullets in the gun..." Great line. "Up-tempo barnstormer" according to you know who.

Something new to do   Bobby Sheen. - I don't generally like modern stuff but I make an exception for this.

Gonna hang on in there girl  Jesse Davis. - Got everything needed to have gone big in any era.

It hurts too much to cry   HB Barnum. - A 1962 recording. Stafford DJs weren't afraid to seek out sides earlier than the 66-68 golden era and this gem was unearthed as a consequence.

In the pocket   Detroit Strings.- A Ric-tic-type instrumental. Pleasant enough.

There was also a different instrumental version of Back Street, played by Guy Hennigan which was second only to 'Angelina' in the popularity stakes. Can't tell you who it was by.

As Solidsoul commented earlier, there were lots of sounds that came out of the venue or were reactivated for a new audience there, including me. The items I've highlighted were but a fraction of what was played. I can't pretend I liked everything played at TOTW. In fact, some of it left me cold, but as an antidote to some of the material played earlier elsewhere, it deserves its place to be categorised as a pioneering, ground breaking venue.

[Clee93]

 Interesting, never knew Cheatin Kind was first played in Cleethorpes! 

[Torch56]

Interesting picture of musical taste and trends in 1976. People behind Stafford often referred to an idea that they were reclaiming an idea of northern soul that had been lost. I used to think that was rather a grandiose statement but I can see what they meant by it.

[Rick Cooper]

18 hours ago, Clee93 said:

 Interesting, never knew Cheatin Kind was first played in Cleethorpes! 

I'd also have put Cheatin Kind down as a Blackpool Mecca record but it was one that only got played near the end of the night as it wasn't the type that filled the dance floor so I can see why John swapped it for Andre Maurice- Cream Of The Crop.

It seems Cream Of The Crop was first played at Blackpool and is one that could be considered a "Mecca" sound from that period (75/76). A few weeks after it first got played me and Terry from Kidderminster got a rare chance to be allowed in the store rooms at Oldies Unlimited. I think we were told everything we took would be 25p but we had to buy a large quantity. Amongst the ones we found were around 10 to 15 copies of Andre Maurice. Terry was selling records at the Mecca as well as his shop. One of these copies ended up with a Wigan DJ within a day or two and was also swapped for what are now big money titles, although nowhere near as valuable as Cheatin Kind. I think one was Get It Baby but maybe the lucky person who did the swap could let us know.

At the end of John's video he asks if other people have done equally bad swaps. My worst one was swapping Lillie Bryant- Meet Me Halfway for Reggie Garner- Hot Line. In my defence Hot Line was getting a lot of plays at Blackpool and Meet Me Halfway was an oldie and my copy was in bad condition having had a lot plays for Barry Tasker at Manchester's Pendulum club three or four years before.

[Modernsoulsucks]

21 minutes ago, Rick Cooper said:

I'd also have put Cheatin Kind down as a Blackpool Mecca record but it was one that only got played near the end of the night as it wasn't the type that filled the dance floor so I can see why John swapped it for Andre Maurice- Cream Of The Crop.

It seems Cream Of The Crop was first played at Blackpool and is one that could be considered a "Mecca" sound from that period (75/76). A few weeks after it first got played me and Terry from Kidderminster got a rare chance to be allowed in the store rooms at Oldies Unlimited. I think we were told everything we took would be 25p but we had to buy a large quantity. Amongst the ones we found were around 10 to 15 copies of Andre Maurice. Terry was selling records at the Mecca as well as his shop. One of these copies ended up with a Wigan DJ within a day or two and was also swapped for what are now big money titles, although nowhere near as valuable as Cheatin Kind. I think one was Get It Baby but maybe the lucky person who did the swap could let us know.

At the end of John's video he asks if other people have done equally bad swaps. My worst one was swapping Lillie Bryant- Meet Me Halfway for Reggie Garner- Hot Line. In my defence Hot Line was getting a lot of plays at Blackpool and Meet Me Halfway was an oldie and my copy was in bad condition having had a lot plays for Barry Tasker at Manchester's Pendulum club three or four years before.

It were me.

"Sister Lee" was the other.

[Clee93]

2 hours ago, Rick Cooper said:

I'd also have put Cheatin Kind down as a Blackpool Mecca record but it was one that only got played near the end of the night as it wasn't the type that filled the dance floor so I can see why John swapped it for Andre Maurice- Cream Of The Crop.

It seems Cream Of The Crop was first played at Blackpool and is one that could be considered a "Mecca" sound from that period (75/76). A few weeks after it first got played me and Terry from Kidderminster got a rare chance to be allowed in the store rooms at Oldies Unlimited. I think we were told everything we took would be 25p but we had to buy a large quantity. Amongst the ones we found were around 10 to 15 copies of Andre Maurice. Terry was selling records at the Mecca as well as his shop. One of these copies ended up with a Wigan DJ within a day or two and was also swapped for what are now big money titles, although nowhere near as valuable as Cheatin Kind. I think one was Get It Baby but maybe the lucky person who did the swap could let us know.

At the end of John's video he asks if other people have done equally bad swaps. My worst one was swapping Lillie Bryant- Meet Me Halfway for Reggie Garner- Hot Line. In my defence Hot Line was getting a lot of plays at Blackpool and Meet Me Halfway was an oldie and my copy was in bad condition having had a lot plays for Barry Tasker at Manchester's Pendulum club three or four years before.

I always thought Cheatin Kind was Mecca tune tbf & admittedly only found out recently how rare it actually is because I always knew it was way out of my reach but I had no clue it was played in Cleethorpes until I saw this video.