Wigan Casino’s 50. A pilgrimage you won't regret.

[Smartzie]

Anyone who went, those who were too young to go and even those who just wonder what northern soul at the Casino was all about, should dash down to the centre of Wigan as soon as they can. To celebrate 50 years since the first night Wigan Council have come up with the goods with their last nite photo exhibition outdoors, music exhibition at the museum of life (where badges, patches, Ts and the last nite book can be purchased) and (for me) the amazing full-size recreation of the Casino in a disused store at the entrance to the Grand shopping centre at the top of Standishgate. This, for me, was like stepping back in time. Mysterious, dark and a big floor punctuated by larger than life photos of well-dressed soul dudes. There's a stripped down juke box full of our northern 7" vinyl (listed for choice by scenario rather than the actual record. So you guess and enjoy.) There's films too, dancers and you-tubey ones. It's ony 100yds from the original building so it's aptly placed. 

Loved my day out. I sing it's praises and I will be going back. It's on for a month and I do believe Russ (W) has a couple of gigs organised for end of October. Make a date.

[Harrythedog]

Good god will it never end.

[Catsprint]

This is Wigan celebrating the Wigan Casino. Whether you now loath it, can’t stand it, hate it 100% along with RW it’s a celebration of Wigans history and culture. In a week or so RS along with other ‘soulies’ are members of a panel discussing these celebrations. If you don’t like it, don’t go.

I’ll be going to the numerous events taking place in and around Wigan over the next couple of weeks, yeah, I’m from Wigan and I’m really pleased ‘Wigan’ are celebrating it.

[Roburt]

Don't forget to tune into BBC Breakfast from 6am tomorrow morning ... 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Roburt

[Solidsoul]

I've been to hundreds of Northern Soul events, but when I was in the Casino on a good night, I felt I was at the very epicentre, the central hive of Northern Soul! 

An all-nighter every single weekend, two allnighters some weekends and MrM's making a lot of those allnighters double room all-nighters in the same building.

This for nearly 8 years solid!

Yes it had some up's and downs but on the whole it was great! 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Solidsoul

[Frankie Crocker]

If Wigan Council has any gumption, it would rebuild The Casino right now as a tourist attraction and an essential public facility for conferences, meetings, ceremonies etc. If the council had any conscience, it should have sacked itself years ago and knocked down half their offices occupied by idle employees to release a site fir redevelopment. Only now does Wigan realise the heritage it has so should do something long-term about nurturing it.

[Hooker1951]

Give it a rest for Gods sake, there were better things before the Casino and much better since, and im from Wigan worked n the door at the Casino before the Allniters and slept in the Casino when I’d no where else to live, if you enjoyed it great, good luck to you and cherish the memories, it was their first rite of passage into the scene but maybe I’m cynical Rose tinted glasses come to mind, there has been a lot good music played since

ML

[Modernsoulsucks]

Better is subjective, Mick.

I think it'd be hard to beat the record bar area at Wigan for those who were into buying and selling 45s.

[Zoomsoulblue]

The other bits - that no one likes talking about

Wigan drug squad tried endlessly to shut the Casino

Breaking in to chemists to fuel the Casino was everywhere 

Selling of drugs around the country - and links from one chemist getting screwed to another - Barbiturates in mass from East Anglian sold to Scotland 

Thursday nights when you use to get you’re brown cash pay packet - easy muggings to feed the Soul habit 

Pills silver wraps - everywhere it was a free for all - Welsh drug suppliers feeding the Scene.

I remember seeing on the balcony at the Casino a Welsh supplier with the roll neck jumper on I said - bet ur hot - he lifted up his jumper to show a rounders bat , snapped in two - as he had discussions with some Bolton lads.

How many people took gear - A coach typically would seat 52 people - it was not uncommon that 53 people took gear - yes the coach driver as well but that’s another story 

 

[Stephen Houghton]

Nothing changes in clubs everywhere 

[Solidsoul]

 The same things went on at The Twisted Wheel, The Torch and all the other allnighters!

They didn't just take flasks of tea and sandwiches to keep going allnight!

Edited September 22, 2023 by Solidsoul

[Chatty]

The Casino was seen as some sort of Den of inequity for it's drug taking but looking back everyone was in one place and you could throw a blanket over them, compared to today where I doubt there is a toilet pub in the country without some traces of a drug in it. Innocent days in some respects.

[Hooker1951]

1 hour ago, Chatty said:

The Casino was seen as some sort of Den of inequity for it's drug taking but looking back everyone was in one place and you could throw a blanket over them, compared to today where I doubt there is a toilet pub in the country without some traces of a drug in it. Innocent days in some respects.

Hi Chatty

Very innocent in a lot of respects , Wearing your heart on your sleeve  and having a good time no hidden agendas, just loving and living life to the full without harming a soul or a Soulie LoL, same as in all the venues before and all the venues that followed,

ML

[Roburt]

Wall to wall #Wigan50 on BBC TV News all day. Started after 6am & has been on each news broadcast throughout the day. Bet Look North (North West) do a local piece tonight as well.

Lots of dancers (+RS) interviewed on BBC Breakfast Show; from Chicago, Aussie, Bolton, Preston, Leeds & Wigan. The old lass from Wigan even admitted she had 'help' back in the 70's to get her thru the niter sessions. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Roburt

[Paul-s]

21 hours ago, Roburt said:

Don't forget to tune into BBC Breakfast from 6am tomorrow morning ... 

Oh dear......on and on and on....

The talentless musician and narcissist Bob Geldof has been dining out on Live Aid (ironically an event to raise money for the starving poor) for nearly 4 decades.
Whereas the talentless/soulless DJ and narcissist (fill in the blanks) R--- --N------- has been dining out on Wigan Casino (ironically a place that was full of soul) for over 4 decades.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Paul-s

[Roburt]

Oh dear......ON and ON and ...  out ON the floor .... ON a Saturday Night (as Eddie Floyd would say) ...

SEE THREAD ... BBC Breakfast - Wigan Casino 50th Anniversary Northern Soul Feature ...

AND a piece from a few weeks ago ... WAITROSE MAG ...

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Roburt

[Rick Cooper]

The media seem to have jumped on the Wigan 50th and many people will find it interesting to go to these sort of events and will, no doubt, enjoy them. I went to the first night and then for another couple of years but it got a bit predictable, except for the live acts. Other venues such as Blackpool Mecca were playing newer and better records so I hardly ever went to Wigan again. 

As a news item Wigan 50 is okay but you'll never get anywhere by looking backwards.

[Geeselad]

4 hours ago, Solidsoul said:

 The same things went on at The Twisted Wheel, The Torch and all the other allnighters!

They didn't just take flasks of tea and sandwiches to keep going allnight!

They do now!

[Geeselad]

I just ignore this crap tbh, switched radio four off this morning, when a feature on it came on. You know exactly what they'll say and who'll say it. You have your official spokespersons of the scene and sometimes the junior official or youth spokesperson. It say more about the quality of journalism since the invention of the net than anything else, every subject matter is dealt with in a patronising way. 

[Chalky]

It'll soon be over although for some It'll Never Be Over For Them

[Soul16]

I'm currently in Greece and the BBC World Service News (the only English TV channel available to me) also did a live interview with Dave Evison, mixed together with the usual This England footage.

Nice to see he didn't miss the opportunity to plug his book either!

[Emjaygee]

2 hours ago, Chalky said:

It'll soon be over although for some It'll Never Be Over For Them

saw what you did there  

[Happy Feet]

Someone out there , an enterprising soul , seeing that the W.C. seems to have moved to Blackpool, could possibly make a lot of money .

Recreate the passage way between the main room and Mr Ms , with live so called punters waiting to roll you of any records you've just bought in the record bar , mug you for what ever money you've left to get home with and possibly nick you're brand new pair of Brogues you saved up for a month to buy as well . On the Pleasure Beach as a kind of walk through Ghost Train , complete with full background sounds and a couple of bouncers looking the other way , say a £5 . including a commenterive car window sticker , 

[Frankie Crocker]

6 hours ago, Paul-s said:

Oh dear......on and on and on....

The talentless musician and narcissist Bob Geldof has been dining out on Live Aid (ironically an event to raise money for the starving poor) for nearly 4 decades.
Whereas the talentless/soulless DJ and narcissist (fill in the blanks) R--- --N------- has been dining out on Wigan Casino (ironically a place that was full of soul) for over 4 decades.

Harsh criticism.... Russ was the cornerstone of The Casino. He’s kept a fairly low profile for decades - indeed, he’s hardly been involved in event promotion and record label stuff. As a local lad, he’s the go-to voice on matters Northern Soul. Wigan 1973-1981. It would be appropriate for followers of the music to show more respect, especially at this time.

[Happy Feet]

Sorry Frankie , but I think you've solved this subject entirely,  "he's hardly been involved in event promotion and record label stuff " , the rest is subjective.

Richard and all the other W.C. djs did go on to other events and move with the times .

It's not I hope as my Mrs always says " not going to turn into a bitch fest " but I'd like to get these questions off my mind and get a truthful answer , 

Who rang the press and said , come up to Wigan there's something worth writing about,

Who rang ITV etc.

Who contacted Pye .( followed by the bloody awful Top of the Pops )

Who decided to start their own C.C. label .

Not necessarily in the right order .

There's a pattern starting to appear, and it wasn't to keep the thing underground or under the radar I'm Sure .

Edited September 22, 2023 by Happy Feet

[Stephen Houghton]

Quite a lot of threads condemning the drugs scene at the casino .because way back then it was  cat and mouse there with the squad. Now it's just everywhere we went to a stag night at Chester races and went to the toilet inside the course and had to wade through masses of discarded empty wraps of gear ,even though children were in there too.like I said take the gear out of clubs and they would become empty the same at the casino, but what a night 

[Chalky]

8 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Harsh criticism.... Russ was the cornerstone of The Casino. He’s kept a fairly low profile for decades - indeed, he’s hardly been involved in event promotion and record label stuff. As a local lad, he’s the go-to voice on matters Northern Soul. Wigan 1973-1981. It would be appropriate for followers of the music to show more respect, especially at this time.

Go to voice?  Wouldn't be so bad if he could tell the truth about some of it

[Leicester Boy]

Russ the angel of ns.... probably not but the devil..nah not for me. Love or hate a major contributor to the "scene, cult, movement," that is ns.

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Stephen Houghton said:

Quite a lot of threads condemning the drugs scene at the casino 

Why are they condemning it?  It was and is a major part of the all-night scene, from the original mods right through to today.  Anyone who says different either walked round with their eyes shut or weren't there.  For the majority, having your gear was just the same as having your fags, money, change of clothes, it was second nature and every bit a part of it. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Chalky

[Lucky One]

What I never seem to understand is why people always go on about Wigan sick to death of hearing about the place. I personally went many times between 1976 through to 1981 and enjoyed it for what it was at the time.There were far better nighters at the time such as Cleethopes and Wakefield Unity and not forgetting Yate.Why doesn't someone give some credit to the longest running and best allnigher that has ever been the 100 Club. I know where I would rather be tonight.

[Geeselad]

10 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Harsh criticism.... Russ was the cornerstone of The Casino. He’s kept a fairly low profile for decades - indeed, he’s hardly been involved in event promotion and record label stuff. As a local lad, he’s the go-to voice on matters Northern Soul. Wigan 1973-1981. It would be appropriate for followers of the music to show more respect, especially at this time.

[Agentsmith]

3 hours ago, Lucky One said:

What I never seem to understand is why people always go on about Wigan sick to death of hearing about the place. I personally went many times between 1976 through to 1981 and enjoyed it for what it was at the time.There were far better nighters at the time such as Cleethopes and Wakefield Unity and not forgetting Yate.Why doesn't someone give some credit to the longest running and best allnigher that has ever been the 100 Club. I know where I would rather be tonight.

No one could ever devalue or underestimate the importance of the 100 club, i went...it was, and still is, as relevant and important as its always been...its place in our history is guaranteed.

[Paul-s]

3 hours ago, Lucky One said:

What I never seem to understand is why people always go on about Wigan sick to death of hearing about the place. I personally went many times between 1976 through to 1981 and enjoyed it for what it was at the time.There were far better nighters at the time such as Cleethopes and Wakefield Unity and not forgetting Yate.Why doesn't someone give some credit to the longest running and best allnigher that has ever been the 100 Club. I know where I would rather be tonight.

Exaactly!

[Paul-s]

14 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Harsh criticism.... Russ was the cornerstone of The Casino. He’s kept a fairly low profile for decades - indeed, he’s hardly been involved in event promotion and record label stuff. As a local lad, he’s the go-to voice on matters Northern Soul. Wigan 1973-1981. It would be appropriate for followers of the music to show more respect, especially at this time.

Total rubbish and he was an organiser/DJ rather than out and about on the floor. His knowledge from that time is way off and he mysteriously seems to conveniently forget most of it....when it suits.

He is the last person to go to on matters Wigan 1973-1981 (unless its about him of course). The reason all the documentary's are so boring and inaccurate, and repetitive, are because of his limited knowledge of what 'actually' went on and his desire to keep himself at the head of the dining (out) table.

His recollection that he didn't notice much drug activity at the Casino (I have interviewed him) is either a confirmation that he was not really connected to the atmosphere and floor at the Casino: you didn't have to consume to know(tice), or that, like Wigan Council, he wants to clean up the image to make it more saleable.
His knowledge of records that were played (by anyone else but himself) is awful and I have witnessed that first hand too.

At this time it's very appropriate to disrespect the lies and misinformed reification of a period that was representative of a healthy and vibrant Northern Soul scene.....the Wigan-centric lens is largely due to Winstanley's tireless self-promotion since the last night(s). He never was a punter after that and has no interest in soul music whatsoever!. 

As others have mentioned, plenty of other clubs at the time were better, as good and most definitely major contributors to the scenes healthy state. 

[Agentsmith]

8 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

Total rubbish and he was an organiser/DJ rather than out and about on the floor. His knowledge from that time is way off and he mysteriously seems to conveniently forget most of it....when it suits.

He is the last person to go to on matters Wigan 1973-1981 (unless its about him of course). The reason all the documentary's are so boring and inaccurate, and repetitive, are because of his limited knowledge of what 'actually' went on and his desire to keep himself at the head of the dining (out) table.

His recollection that he didn't notice much drug activity at the Casino (I have interviewed him) is either a confirmation that he was not really connected to the atmosphere and floor at the Casino: you didn't have to consume to know(tice), or that, like Wigan Council, he wants to clean up the image to make it more saleable.
His knowledge of records that were played (by anyone else but himself) is awful and I have witnessed that first hand too.

At this time it's very appropriate to disrespect the lies and misinformed reification of a period that was representative of a healthy and vibrant Northern Soul scene.....the Wigan-centric lens is largely due to Winstanley's tireless self-promotion since the last night(s). He never was a punter after that and has no interest in soul music whatsoever!. 

As others have mentioned, plenty of other clubs at the time were better, as good and most definitely major contributors to the scenes healthy state. 

Paul, wasnt he a rock dj originally, just jumped on the bandwagon when he saw an opportunity?

[Wiggyflat]

41 minutes ago, Agentsmith said:

Paul, wasnt he a rock dj originally, just jumped on the bandwagon when he saw an opportunity?

I have been through  99 percent of the Wigan papers through that era. The Casino was used for loads of different events inc the Policemans ball during the early years of the Nighter. Russ had a general mobile disco called Everysound Disco. The week before the Casino opened the bouncers were up in court for GBH relating to a fight there. The Allnighters opened a week later and it seemed to come at a time when the other venues were being shut down for drugs and Russ saw the opening.  . The main soul place in Wigan prior to the nighters seemed to be the Stax Disco with the deejay Neil Swann. He also did Bolton Casino. Richard has said that he provided him with records in the early years.Before that there was a Mod venue in Wigan called Room At The Top  (notorious for drug dealing and shut down to re open as the Spot with live bands not a deejay)with the Empress Suite at the Casino a live music venue for bands like The Foundations etc and the main room for cabaret. Drug related busts relating to the nighter were frequently in the local paper and papers all around the country for that matter as people who were nicked seemed to always mention the place for some reason. In one article The local Wigan  magistrate was sick of getting nighter drug busts in front of her and asked what were the Police doing!!  Getting down at Wigan Casino seems to be the answer.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Wiggyflat

[Hooker1951]

12 minutes ago, Wiggyflat said:

I have been through  99 percent of the Wigan papers through that era. The Casino was used for loads of different events inc the Policemans ball during the early years of the Nighter. Russ had a general mobile disco called Everysound Disco. The week before the Casino opened the bouncers were up in court for GBH relating to a fight there. The Allnighters opened a week later and it seemed to come at a time when the other venues were being shut down for drugs and Russ saw the opening.  . The main soul place in Wigan prior to the nighters seemed to be the Stax Disco with the deejay Neil Swann. He also did Bolton Casino. Richard has said that he provided him with records in the early years.Before that there was a Mod venue in Wigan called Room At The Top  (notorious for drug dealing and shut down to re open as the Spot with live bands not a deejay)with the Empress Suite at the Casino a live music venue for bands like The Foundations etc and the main room for cabaret. Drug related busts relating to the nighter were frequently in the paper inc an article on the local magistrate who was sick of getting nighter drug busts in front of her and what were the Police doing!! 

Hi Wiggy

You are totally right about the bouncers being in Crown court the week before the all-nighters started I was one of them, It caused d a fallout at the time with Gerry Marshall the manager and owner of the club, as a result indirectly it resulted in RW and Mike Walker  being projected into the Casino hall of fame I’ve spoke to Chalky aka Karl at length  about this story, trust me it’s true, but let’s leave the memories as they are and move on ,I was also a patron of the Room at the Top a much more underground soul club at the time running arable leith the wheel 1965 to 68, it was Mr M.s formally the Palais . Had more cabaret on , the Empress ballroom when big acts were on Little Richard , Edwin S , Jimmy R.etc etc as a rule who ever performed at Wigan performed at Bolton Casino the same night or a week later the same consortium owned both clubs till Gerry took sole ownership of Wigan in 1972 when the Palais became Mr M,s or Mr Marshall Gerry,s second name, Soul music and soul groups had been played at the Casino from the mid 1960,s more so  since the closure of the Room at the top in 1968 69,

KR 

Mick L

[Zoomsoulblue]

1 hour ago, Hooker1951 said:

Hi Wiggy

You are totally right about the bouncers being in Crown court the week before the all-nighters started I was one of them, It caused d a fallout at the time with Gerry Marshall the manager and owner of the club, as a result indirectly it resulted in RW and Mike Walker  being projected into the Casino hall of fame I’ve spoke to Chalky aka Karl at length  about this story, trust me it’s true, but let’s leave the memories as they are and move on ,I was also a patron of the Room at the Top a much more underground soul club at the time running arable leith the wheel 1965 to 68, it was Mr M.s formally the Palais . Had more cabaret on , the Empress ballroom when big acts were on Little Richard , Edwin S , Jimmy R.etc etc as a rule who ever performed at Wigan performed at Bolton Casino the same night or a week later the same consortium owned both clubs till Gerry took sole ownership of Wigan in 1972 when the Palais became Mr M,s or Mr Marshall Gerry,s second name, Soul music and soul groups had been played at the Casino from the mid 1960,s more so  since the closure of the Room at the top in 1968 69,

KR 

Mick L

Great hearing from people who were there at the time / and an important part of the history - top man Always find past experiences and knowledge fascinating - as what was acceptable back then and how people behaved would be blown up on social media today in a second 

 

[Bob Jay]

9 hours ago, Lucky One said:

What I never seem to understand is why people always go on about Wigan sick to death of hearing about the place. I personally went many times between 1976 through to 1981 and enjoyed it for what it was at the time.There were far better nighters at the time such as Cleethopes and Wakefield Unity and not forgetting Yate.Why doesn't someone give some credit to the longest running and best allnigher that has ever been the 100 Club. I know where I would rather be tonight.

I'd forgoten about Yate, wasn't that the Stars and Stripes? I remember drving home from there in a very dubios condition..

[Frankie Crocker]

14 hours ago, Paul-s said:

Total rubbish and he was an organiser/DJ rather than out and about on the floor. His knowledge from that time is way off and he mysteriously seems to conveniently forget most of it....when it suits.

He is the last person to go to on matters Wigan 1973-1981 (unless its about him of course). The reason all the documentary's are so boring and inaccurate, and repetitive, are because of his limited knowledge of what 'actually' went on and his desire to keep himself at the head of the dining (out) table.

His recollection that he didn't notice much drug activity at the Casino (I have interviewed him) is either a confirmation that he was not really connected to the atmosphere and floor at the Casino: you didn't have to consume to know(tice), or that, like Wigan Council, he wants to clean up the image to make it more saleable.
His knowledge of records that were played (by anyone else but himself) is awful and I have witnessed that first hand too.

At this time it's very appropriate to disrespect the lies and misinformed reification of a period that was representative of a healthy and vibrant Northern Soul scene.....the Wigan-centric lens is largely due to Winstanley's tireless self-promotion since the last night(s). He never was a punter after that and has no interest in soul music whatsoever!. 

As others have mentioned, plenty of other clubs at the time were better, as good and most definitely major contributors to the scenes healthy state. 

Even more harsh criticism but well argued...

Russ was one of the main Casino DJ’s and had a sound grasp of what was played back in the day - his shop stocked the current sounds as lists testify. Sure, he was eclipsed by Searling post-Casino. Perhaps guilty of being linked to over-commercial ventures in the 70’s but has been pretty much retired since.

I don’t blame Russ for downplaying the drugs - they were a liability in many ways.

Wigan Casino was the epicentre for the music back in the 70’s. Sure, Cleethorpes Pier had its supporters and some good music spun by lesser known DJ’s but it was always overshadowed by The Casino. The proliferation of other clubs for local and regional travellers could be partly due to the impact of The Casino. 

I don’t see Russ dining out at all...he maintains a low profile until the media drag him out of hibernation. Yes, he is rooted in the past and hasn’t KTF like Richard or Kev, but so what - he never pretends to know all about the contemporary scene. Russ is simply the voice of Wigan in its heyday - he is just the obvious person to talk about The Casino 1973-1981, like it or lump it. Remember, Russ didn’t get rich on the proceeds due to the deal he cut with the owner.

Anyone writes newspaper articles, books, plays or film-scripts owes Russ a debt of gratitude for his organisational achievements; many of us love the music we do due to Russ Winstanley and should be eternally grateful.

[Smartzie]

On the stage, Russ slapped 'em on, Richard gave the spiel. 

Explains the routes our heros have taken since?

[Paul-s]

22 hours ago, Agentsmith said:

Paul, wasnt he a rock dj originally, just jumped on the bandwagon when he saw an opportunity?

Yes, he ran a mobile disco and saw an opportunity....

[Paul-s]

8 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Even more harsh criticism but well argued...

Russ was one of the main Casino DJ’s and had a sound grasp of what was played back in the day - his shop stocked the current sounds as lists testify. Sure, he was eclipsed by Searling post-Casino. Perhaps guilty of being linked to over-commercial ventures in the 70’s but has been pretty much retired since.

I don’t blame Russ for downplaying the drugs - they were a liability in many ways.

Wigan Casino was the epicentre for the music back in the 70’s. Sure, Cleethorpes Pier had its supporters and some good music spun by lesser known DJ’s but it was always overshadowed by The Casino. The proliferation of other clubs for local and regional travellers could be partly due to the impact of The Casino. 

I don’t see Russ dining out at all...he maintains a low profile until the media drag him out of hibernation. Yes, he is rooted in the past and hasn’t KTF like Richard or Kev, but so what - he never pretends to know all about the contemporary scene. Russ is simply the voice of Wigan in its heyday - he is just the obvious person to talk about The Casino 1973-1981, like it or lump it. Remember, Russ didn’t get rich on the proceeds due to the deal he cut with the owner.

Anyone writes newspaper articles, books, plays or film-scripts owes Russ a debt of gratitude for his organisational achievements; many of us love the music we do due to Russ Winstanley and should be eternally grateful.

A low profile..are you joking. He is a total opportunist and actively seeks out projects and often fibs to get onboard. He contacts anywhere that mentions Wigan Casino and bans films from using a mock up of the original sign amongst other grasping acts. I know believe me. He re-invents what he actually did, and is a shameless self-promoter.

I disagree about the scene and other venues. I travelled every week to several events, couple of nighters and a dayer for instance and its usually only the tribe that didn't need to travel who have no idea about these brilliant places. The scene was great and it wasn't only due to Wigan Casino.

No one owes him a debt of graspitude, if not for him it would still have manifested in some way. Remember there were venues that came before, and soulful energy looking for a home. It didn't start or end with the Casino: thats just the myth that returnees, Russ and lazy producers want to promote...

They need to reify the scene via that venue in order to cash in....its a recognisable product/motif and even more so nowadays as the same songs are hammered week in week out, the vests and bags revived and the songs acted out to demonstrate. "I was there". 

Anyway, thats our differing opinions and experiences and thats what the scene was and is about (so it should be). Its just that the lens that is always used in the mono-Winstanley-Wigan Casino experience and contribution: often deliberately, and petulantly, neglecting Richards contribution.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Paul-s