Who 1st Coined The Phrase 'crossover'?

[Guest OntheScene]

Hi all,

It just occurred to me the other day after speaking to a friend and reading an article on Dave Godin who as we all know is said to be the 1st to coin the phrase 'Northern Soul',

If someone knows please let me know.

Cheers

Paul

[Rob Wigley]

I think it was Voices from the shadows main man Rod Dearlove circa

1987/88. I wrote an article for Echoes around that time after visiting the Canal Tavern at Thorne, Reflections at Liecester and The Collesium in Derby Danny Everade was running with Tats. All 3 venues were playing

70s soul music which was popular at the early weekenders. Rare Groove had just taken off in London. I was looking for a name to describe the music being played, it wasn't Modern nor was it Northern, I put a Tag of Goodtime Soul music which fitted as we were all having a bloody good time (a solid hard core of about 50 or so people travelling with another 70-80 on the fringe ).

rod kept writing about this scene and the records that were played, Bobby Reed (Bell £8), Stan Ivory (£5), Chestnut brothers etc which he was also selling via his mail order list under the general section, then under the title crossover soul as more and more of these records were played or re-discovered.

there is an excellent article that Rod wrote in Voices No 16 1991 which gives an insight to these records that were played at thorne, Parkers and morecombe/early southport weekenders which eventually lead to the birth of the Soul essence weekenders in yarmouth, all good stuff basically Crossover is 1969 to 1974 that was ignored by the stomping northern scene and over looked by the Modern scene because it wasn't "new". generally mid tempo but good dancers with soulful vocals.

perfect for todays 40 plus arthritic crowd with bad knees and very sought after by people who missed them at the time .

hope that helps Rob

[jazzyjas]

Brilliant post, Rob. This confirms what I've always thought crossover soul was and actually gave me a history of how it came to be popular. You never hear about these things. It's mostly talk about Wigan and regular 60s northern.

Thanks for that!

KTF

Jas

[Guest OntheScene]

Hi all,

It just occurred to me the other day after speaking to a friend and reading an article on Dave Godin who as we all know is said to be the 1st to coin the phrase 'Northern Soul',

If someone knows please let me know.

Cheers

Paul

link

Thanks Rob for your in depth explanation as to how you saw the term come about. I personally have always been a fan of this area of the soul spectrum and as I have several back issues of Voices including Issues 1 to 4 will check to see if I also have the issue you speak of.

Quite a few people think that stuff like Gloria Scott's Too much lovemakin' is Crossover and I suppose it depends how you categorize the music as this was played on the northern and modern scenes,therefore I suppose 'crossing over'. But I like you, prefer to categorize music via the sound rather than where it was played, which is obviously contrary to the term 'Northern' Soul where you can hear vastly different records coming under this one banner. I personally think tunes that should come under the crossover umbrella should include the likes of; Something new to do (Bobby Sheen), Who could be loving you (Jackie Ross) etc. But would also like to point out that it in my mind should not include the more funkier side of black america that was happening around the same time, James Brown, JBs etc.

[Chalky]

Not strictly the birth of the term crossover but here's an article from echoes mentioing two of the premier "dark side" DJ's of the 80's...Adam and Robin Salter. These two always played modern, old and new releases in their sets.

Edited December 30, 2004 by chalky

[Guest OntheScene]

Not strictly the birth of the term crossover but here's an article from echoes mentioing two of the premier "dark side" DJ's of the 80's...Adam and Robin Salter.  These two always played modern, old and new releases in their sets.

link

Interesting article Chalky but I would say it covers more of the 'Modern Independent' side of the scene rather than crossover with mentions given to James Govan and the like.

Thanks all the same though.

[Chalky]

Interesting article Chalky but I would say it covers more of the 'Modern Independent' side of the scene rather than crossover with mentions given to James Govan and the like.

Thanks all the same though.

link

I agree with you fully but Thorne which Rob mentions played more than it's fair share of the "modern independant". Thorne probably the best "across the board" venue I've been too but Adam and Robin DJ'ed at venues that considered themselves "across the board"...a little off tangent I know but thought the article might have been useful.

[John May]

Interesting article Chalky but I would say it covers more of the 'Modern Independent' side of the scene rather than crossover with mentions given to James Govan and the like.

Thanks all the same though.

link

I think Crossover has been a bit forgotten over the last few years, back in the 90's I would say it was the backbone of the scene, with venue's like Albrighton, Bretby, Thorne, Pitches ( Rotherham ) (etc).

Sadly i feel the that too much modern soul began to creep in which wasn't everyones cup of tea, and with the 60'sR&B sound becoming popular around 2000, and a big oldies revival, crossover and 70's was frozen out on the Northern scene for a while.

Many soulies returning to the scene over the last few years wouldn't really know what crossover is, however Clydie King ...The game is over has been popular over the last 18 months or so, and considering the fact R&B is now starting to get played significently less on the northern scene, Crossover hopefully is going to be making a comeback.

For me Crossover represents the true Soulful side our music , Richard Caiton....I'd like to get near you, for me is one of the best piece's of soul music ever put on Vinyl........Let's hope 2005 is the year of Crossover, if it is, I'll certainly be a happy man.

JM

[Chalky]

I think Crossover has been a bit forgotten over the last few years, back in the 90's I would say it was the backbone of the scene, with venue's like Albrighton, Bretby, Thorne, Pitches ( Rotherham ) (etc).

  Sadly i feel the that too much modern soul began to creep in which wasn't everyones cup of tea, and with the 60'sR&B sound becoming popular around 2000, and a big oldies revival, crossover and 70's was frozen out on the Northern scene for a while.

  Many soulies returning to the scene over the last few years wouldn't really know what crossover is, however Clydie King ...The game is over has been popular over the last 18 months or so, and considering the fact R&B is now starting to get played significently less on the northern scene, Crossover hopefully is going to be making a comeback.

    For me Crossover represents the true Soulful side our music , Richard Caiton....I'd like to get near you, for me is one of the best piece's of soul music ever put on Vinyl........Let's hope 2005 is the year of Crossover, if it is,  I'll certainly be a happy man.

JM

link

Venues like Thorne, Pitches etc IMO played more "Modern" than crossover from what I remember. They had no boundaries but the majority of the DJ's were very forward thinking.

There is an excellent article in the last N-Soul from Brian Goucher about Thorne, well worth a read. In the article he writes of the announcement fromRod in issue 10 of Voices From The Shadows (1989)...."as of 1st of April, VFTS will be promoting Canal Tavern. It's the way forward; we're combining the best new indies with some of the most obscure 70' and 80's that you will ever hear."

Edited December 31, 2004 by chalky

[Billywhizz]

Hi all,

It just occurred to me the other day after speaking to a friend and reading an article on Dave Godin who as we all know is said to be the 1st to coin the phrase 'Northern Soul',

If someone knows please let me know.

Cheers

Paul

link

Yeah I will go along them lines Paul,as for cross over I remember reading in Echoes in the Mid 70s when Wigan was on the change nothings spiritual just sound wise.Cheers Billy

[Pete S]

Let's hope 2005 is the year of Crossover, if it is,  I'll certainly be a happy man.

JM

link

And there was me planning to start going out more in 2005.

Cancel that then....

[John May]

And there was me planning to start going out more in 2005.

Cancel that then....

link

Not everybody's cup of tea Pete I know...........

JM

[Pete S]

basically Crossover is 1969 to 1974 that was ignored by the stomping northern scene and  over looked by the Modern scene because it wasn't "new".

link

Or because it was second rate B side fodder which only resurfaced because a bunch of elitists decided it was the new thing.

How anyone into 'Northern Soul' can praise crossover but slag off R&B really needs help.

We've had some crap thrust upon us over the last 30 years or so but nothing so apalling as crossover, come back Muriel Day all is forgiven

(and if that doesn't stir it up nothing will )

[Pete S]

Not everybody's cup of tea Pete I know...........

JM

link

I'm not saying it's not soul music John cos it obviously is but to travel somewhere and be faced with that crap is not what I was planning on doing

[John May]

I'm not saying it's not soul music John cos it obviously is but to travel somewhere and be faced with that crap is not what I was planning on doing

link

That's one great thing about the Northern scene, you can pick and choose where to go, there is always a venue somewhere that plays the stuff you want here..........

[Pete S]

That's one great thing about the Northern scene, you can pick and choose where to go, there is always a venue somewhere that plays the stuff you want here..........

link

Well someone had better point them out then because I don't want to go to Goodyears and hear Little Queenie and Breakout, but I definitely don't want to hear 70's, so I'm after a rarer oldies/newies night I suppose.

Oh and one that plays rocksteady as well

[John May]

Well someone had better point them out then because I don't want to go to Goodyears and hear Little Queenie and Breakout, but I definitely don't want to hear 70's, so I'm after a rarer oldies/newies night I suppose. 

Oh and one that plays rocksteady as well 

link

I really hope you find that venue Pete, can't think of one right now though....

[Mike]

back to the articles modern/xover thing

there's a view from year 1994 up here

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/a...hp?storyid=1559

[Daved]

Good article. Thanks for putting that up. "Illogical rejection" is a phrase I like.

[Epic]

I ASSUME PETE S WAS "TONGUE IN CHEEK" WITH THE MURIEL DAY QUIP.

BLACKPOOL MECCA 74/75 WAS THE PLACE TO HEAR CROSSOVER IN THE LEGENDARY LAST HOUR. SUCH TUNES AS DENISE KEEBLE, LINDA PERRY, JACKIE MOORE, THE CHARISMA BAND & SWEET GERALDINE ETC. - THE BRILLIANT LIST IS ENDLESS. PICTURE THE SCENE - JULY 1975 - IT'S 1.30 AM AT BLACKPOOL - COLIN CURTIS LAYS DON GARDNER ON THE DECKS - 40 MILES DOWN THE ROAD THE CARMEL STRINGS IS TEARING UP THE DANCEFLOOR - YOU'VE JUST CROSSED OVER - BRILLIANT SOUL TO POP PAP

FORWARD TO THE YEAR 2004 - THE ORWELL - IT'S THE EXITS. TY KARIM, TOWANDA & TOTAL DESTRUCTION - THE CROSSOVER PORTAL IS RE OPENED - BRILLIANT.

NINE TIMES OUT OF TEN I PREFER "CROSSOVER"

[Pete S]

I like the Carmel Strings AND Don Gardner but the Linda Perry's of this world leave me cold and you just don't get the rush with that type of music that you do with 60's 4-4 beat Northern...s'all

n.b. towanda & total destruction is one of my all time favourite records and I have a copy but I'd not want to hear it played out

Edited December 31, 2004 by Pete-S

[Reg]

Well someone had better point them out then because I don't want to go to Goodyears and hear Little Queenie and Breakout, but I definitely don't want to hear 70's, so I'm after a rarer oldies/newies night I suppose. 

Oh and one that plays rocksteady as well 

link

The Middleton all niter sounds like your thing..they have a separate modern room sometimes but you don't have to go in there Great venue too! There's a Carl Willingham tribute night a week on Friday, line up sounds good

Don't think they'll play rocksteady tho but you never know....

[Guest kid mohair]

can anybody think of a better word than crossover,i dont understand ,crossover to what the other side?

[Chalky]

can anybody think of a better word than crossover,

link

errr.....soul

[Pete S]

Flotsam Soul

[John May]

Flotsam Soul

link

I've sometimes heard it called " Two Step ". Not sure where that term comes from.

JM

[pikeys dog]

Two Step is something completely different....

Very slow, walking pace records.... mainly 1980s thing......

Rubbish!

WOOF!

[Rob Wigley]

Made me smile Chalky, remember your first trip to the canal tavern when gary welsh was running it ? before Rod took over. you nearly wore a groove in that dance floor that night !!

more new stuff was played later on at the Tavern when the Cream of the Crossover rod had been building up started to run out, plus he was getting New stuff from the States via richard carrington what ever happened to him ?!

[John May]

Two Step is something completely different....

Very slow, walking pace records.... mainly 1980s thing......

Rubbish!

WOOF!

link

Thank you for correcting me there Pikey boy......

I do get mixed up sometimes, it's my age.

JM

[Chalky]

Made me smile Chalky, remember your first trip to the canal tavern when gary welsh was running it ? before Rod took over. you nearly wore a groove in that dance floor that night !!

more new stuff was played later on at the Tavern when the Cream of the Crossover rod had been building up started to run out, plus he was getting New stuff from the States via richard carrington what ever happened to him ?!

link

Bloody Hell, I've all on remembering what I did an hour ago, not to mention all those years ago Used to be a lot more 60's orientated. I can still remember the Mighty Bub trying to get in the little DJ booth

[Geordiejohnson]

The term crossover is not limited to the soul scene it has been used for years for tunes eveolving from the R&B into the rock and roll scene it has been used to coin some of Elvis Presley's music that he took/covered from the out and out blues tunes and made into rock and roll hits.

Years ago at school in our music lessons we were treated to a taped feature that was called the "history of Music" and the term was used in there.

I suppose that the term just happens to fit different genres that have their music spaning the decades

Hope this helps

Geeeoooooordie

[Chalky]

The term crossover is not limited to the soul scene it has been used for years for tunes eveolving from the R&B into the rock and roll scene it has been used to coin some of Elvis Presley's music that he took/covered from the out and out blues tunes and made into rock and roll hits.

Years ago at school in our music lessons we were treated to a taped feature that was called the "history of Music" and the term was used in there.

I suppose that the term just happens to fit different genres that have their music spaning the decades

Hope this helps

The likes of Sam Cook etc were said to have "crossed over" when moving from the gospel field to more mainstream pop/soul.

Geeeoooooordie

link

[Guest biggray1]

wasnt it that little woman on Poltergiest telling allthose lost souls to CROSSOVER AND ENTER THE LITE

[soulster22]

wasnt it that little woman on Poltergiest telling allthose lost souls to CROSSOVER AND ENTER THE LITE

link

i think that crossover refers to crossing over to the dark side!!!!

may the force be with you and in the immortal words of our leader I Walked Away.

Happy New Year and Regards Soulster 22