Getto Kitty Getto kitty production

[Tommy1]

Has anyone got some info on this band? I know it’s the first single release on the label started by Andy (Andrew) Stroud in 1972. Could it be session musicians used just for this record, named after “Getto kitty productions”?

[Roburt]

Stroud & Ninandy were owned / run by Nina Simone & her then husband Andy Stroud. He also titled his work as STROUD PRODUCTIONS (based out of  507 5th Ave, New York).

Andy Stroud was a musical kid who went into the Us Navy as a trumpeter in a navy band. He was stationed in Florida, He left the forces in 1946 & moved to New York. There he played in bands & was on an album recorded at the Apollo Theatre. He then joined the NY Police in 1948 & stayed there till 1961. In 61, he met & married Nina and quit the police to become her manager. Although he was abusive towards her they stayed together till 71. 

In late 1967, the Ninandy label was started & released stuff by Montego Joe, the Cashmeres, Roy Roberts, Sam Waymon & the Swordsmen. The Stroud label followed on. putting out mainly releases by Nina herself. Andy Stroud & Nina were divorced by the time the Stroud label started.

Nina was the star that attracted acts to sign with Stroud / Ninandy -- she would take the acts signed to her labels on tour with her & have them as her support act on shows. Lots of shows in New York she did featured the acts as her support on the bill.

She moved in NY jazz circles & that's probably why the like of Montego Joe link came about. The Roy Roberts 45 seems to have been an outside production & had been released on a local Nth Carolina label first (Bo-Ro). Sam Waymon was also from Nth Carolina, so there was obviously a connection with that area (+ Nina's real name was Eunice Waymon, so they were related). After 1 x 45 on Ninandy, his contract was picked up by RCA (though Stroud still produced his stuff). The Swordsmen were a duo from Cleveland. Strangely they weren't known under that name back in Cleveland but were known in the local clubs where both guys performed as solo acts. Seems Nina met up with them while doing shows in the Cleveland area. Perhaps Stroud put them together ( in a Sam & Dave kind of way) & signed them as a duo. Their contract was also picked up by RCA after 1 x 45 on Ninandy. They were active as a duo under that name from 68 to 71.

Getto Kitty  seems TO ME to be the name taken at the time by Weldon Irvine & his group (a member of which was a certain James Stroud). Weldon was Nina Simone's band leader at the time, so it only seems natural that the band would cut for Stroud Records. By 1972, he was cutting tracks (still with his band) under his own name ('Liberated Brother' for NOBLEW RECORDS -- thats WELDON backwards). He'd set up his own Noblew productions as early as 1968 but mainly worked with Nina till 72.

So YES, they were session musicians who did studio work backing up other acts (I'd guess the likes of Sonny Til for RCA in 71. Also Percy Mayfield in 71, also for RCA). But they were mainly Nina Simone's touring band. Guess they were rewarded for their efforts with the Stroud 45. I'd GUESS, that they were the studio band on most of the Ninandy & Stroud recorded tracks.

Weldon Irvine had a 2nd LP out on his own label in 73 and then signed a deal with RCA. 

I guess the Nina Simone & the RCA links make it highly likely that his band were in fact Getto Kitty. Weldon arranged their tracks & wrote the song. Sounds like the whole band singing on the chorus but no idea who the lead singer could be. Nina herself was signed to RCA between 1967 & 1974 ... so all the pieces seem to fall into place.

Seem to recall posting up an ad for NY shows Nina Simone undertook around 1970 on which one of the Ninandy artists was the supporting act. Obviously (though not advertised in their own right) Weldon & his band would have backed up both acts on the shows.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Roburt

[Roburt]

The Telegraph did an article on their (Nina & Andy) relationship ... it's still up online ...

www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/how-nina-simone-fell-in-love-with-her-abusive-husband/

EXTRACT ... Stroud could often be found at a Harlem bar called the Lenox Lounge, where he was friendly with the manager and his wife, a sometime nightclub entertainer named Becky Harding. One night while Stroud was drinking at the Lenox, Harding told him that she had just seen a fantastic singer named Nina Simone at a midtown supper club called the Round Table and that she was going to go back and he should join her. Stroud drove them down to the venue. Harding had introduced herself to the singer on her first visit, so after her set Simone came to their table to say hello. Stroud was eating a hamburger next to Harding. Simone playfully snatched up some of his French fries and, as he said later, “We got cute and whatnot.” Stroud was driving his friends home, so following her final set Simone joined them and they headed up to Harlem. She hung out for a few drinks at the Lenox Lounge, and then he dropped her off at her Central Park West apartment, just a few blocks from his police station. Before getting out of the car, she handed him the Round Table business card, which had a note on the back saying, “Nice to have met you—Nina,” and her phone number.

The whole story & much more about her career & Stroud Productions are in her autobiography. Don't think Getto Kitty gets a mention but Weldon Irvine certainly will have.

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Q 1969 New York club shows ... Nina & friends ... 

I guess the heading NINA SIMONE & COMPANY means NS + the Weldon Irvine Band.

BTW, Montego Joe had been her drummer in the early / mid 60's.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Roburt

[Tommy1]

Thanks a lot Roburt   I really appreciate it!

This is what I love with Soul-Source!

[Roburt]

Just checked & I have David Nathan's book on Nina.

Nina had a UK hit in Oct 68 & came to the UK to do promotional work & to appear on T of the Pops. During that visit she met fans @ Soul City Record shop in London. She had 2 more UK pop chart hits in early 69 and so returned here to do a full tour (many UK venues). 

Weldon Irvine gets mentioned many times in the book. In 1969, Nina was touring the UK & so did lots of shows here. David Nathan reports on a London show & states ... Nina was aided by 4 most capable musicians; Weldon (Irvine -- organ), Gene (Perla -- on bass), Don (Alias -- on drums) & Al (Schackman - on guitar). None of the other 3 guys were still in Weldon's group in 72. BUT ALSO, she had Gena & Doris (Willingham) on backing vocals. But DORIS WILLINGHAM (DORIS DUKE) couldn't have been the singer on the Getto Kitty tracks as she'd left Nina by then (see below). But for certain, Doris toured the UK as a backing singer for Nina in 69.

PERHAPS it was GENA (?) who was the singer on the cuts.

Doris Willingham had her solo (Jay Boy) 45 released in the US in late Nov / early Dec 68. The 45 was doing well by early Dec on WWIN in Baltimore. She then hooked up with Nina in 69 BUT BY 1970, she was solo again as Doris Duke & recording for Canyon by Feb 70.

On Nina's recording sessions at the end of the 60's, she used the Swordsmen as her backing singers. They also accompanied her on UK tours and opened the show before singing backing vocals when she performed. Her daughter Lisa & brother Sam Wymon sang back-up on other of her recording sessions. 

One of the Swordmens 45s (Oh, My Soul") was getting radio plays (& charting in Nov 68). It was getting spins on WWRL (NY), WEBB (Baltimore) & WENZ (Richmond). By early Dec it was @ #6 on WCHB's chart (Detroit) & ' #12 on WJMO (Cleveland).

[Roburt]

Doris Willingham / Duke must only have stayed with Nina for around 9 months (Jan to Sept 69 ?), as by early 70 she was signed to Canyon & recording as Doris Duke.

No doubt old B&S interviews with Doris (Duke) will have touched on the details of her UK gigs in 69 (as a backing singer for Nina). Mine are up in the loft, but guess someone else's will be available to check.

It's a pity Nina / Andy didn't think to sign Doris to a Ninandy contract (but then, I guess, we wouldn't have gotten the great Doris Duke Canyon stuff from 1970 onwards).

 

[Tommy1]

This is what I've found on the Stroud label in music magazines: 

Cash Box, Dec, 23, 1972: "Andy Stroud has formed a new record company and announced that his first release on Stroud Records is an LP, "Nina Simone Sings Billie Holiday". The LP features Holiday classics from the Motown film, "The Lady Sings The Blues""
 

Cash Box , Jan, 27, 1973: "Andy (Andrew) Stroud has entered the R & B' field with the formation of his own label, "Stroud". The first single release is, "Stand Up And Be Counted" performed by "Getto Kitty"."

Also Cash Box, Dec, 30, 1972:
 

 

[The Yank]

"Stand Up And Be Counted" did get some airplay on WLIB in New York. This survey is from Feb.9- Feb. 15 of 1973. See #10 under Boss Bubblers- 

 

[Tommy1]

10 minutes ago, The Yank said:

"Stand Up And Be Counted" did get some airplay on WLIB in New York. This survey is from Feb.9- Feb. 15 of 1973. See #10 under Boss Bubblers- 

 

What do you think is the correct release year for this? It was copyrighted December 29, 1972, but Cash Box, and this survey don't mentioned it before early 1973.

[The Yank]

I know the label says 1972 and that Getto Kitty Productions was formed in 1972 but, I think early '73 is more likely. I think that Stroud  was like the Parkway and Mar-V-Lus/ One-Der-Ful/M-Pac  where there is the same date on the label no matter what year the record was released.

[Roburt]

I think it's almost certain that the Getto Kitty tracks were cut in late 1972, the song registered (copyrighted) at the very end of December 72 but the records pressed up in early January 73. Promo copies being sent out by Stroud in mid January & the 45 starting to get radio tips by early February 73.

BACK TO PROBABLE INFO ON THE GROUP ....   A show on Nina Simone's March 69 UK tour was reviewed by Melody Maker. See the attached (seems the reviewer misheard the backing singers name & noted her down as Doris Williams not WILLINGHAM).   

The advance notice info on the tour package refers to NINA, her quartet & trio ... I'd guess the quartet were the 4 musicians listed already above & that the trio were the backing singers (obviously 3 were expected ahead of their UK arrival but just 2 seemed to have come). With her show being 2 hours duration, I'd say the musicians would have opened (doing a couple of jazzy instrumental numbers), then the backing singers would have come on stage for a couple more songs (vocals this time) and then finally Nina would have come out -- probably sitting at & playing a piano.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Roburt

[Tommy1]

Did Getto Kitty ever release anything else under that name? 

[Roburt]

I don't believe so as Weldon Irvine seems to have broken with Stroud in / by 1972. The Stroud 45 was probably cut sometime in 1972 (or maybe in 71) & released at the start of 73.

In 1970, Nina had left Andy Stroud & headed off to live in Barbados. She owed US taxes & was very unpopular in the US  due to her Civil Rights statements / work. So Stroud's supply of money must have dried up (he was her manager / booker too). He'd got the recording deal for some acts with RCA and that must have brought enough money in to keep his recording sessions going. The Stroud label put out 2 x 45's + LP's on Nina in 72/73 but they must have been much earlier recordings (69 / 70 ?). She also had an LP out on RCA in 71 but Andy Stroud had nothing to do with that at all.

Seems Stroud must have been trying to carry on with the remnants of Nina's entourage (except Sam Waymon, Nina's brother). Sam Waymon sang with Nina on some shows but he'd gone off with her, so can't have been a vocalist with Getto Kitty. The Ninandy label was shut down & Stroud started up, well she was no longer involved so the NINA / ANDY name was redundant. The Swordsmen stayed with Andy Stroud & I guess Weldon Irvine & his band did too. But Weldon Irvine & his group were releasing stuff on his own label in 72. So he'd obviously walked away from Stroud by then. His LP ('Liberated Brother') was laid down at a NY studio but the band line-up changes on some of the tracks. Perhaps that's coz of the changes that came about when he broke with Andy Stroud.

Weldon had a 2nd LP out on his own label in 73 and sax Player James Stroud isn't on that (though Weldon thanks him for his past work on the sleeve notes).

Two pictures; Nina & Andy together in the late 60's ... then Nina on stage with her quartet in 69 (I'm assuming the quartet are Weldon Irvine & his band) ... 

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Coz Weldon Irvine was a famous jazz keyboard player & coz he'd written "Young, Gifted & Black" for Nina, they've made a documentary about him. This goes into all aspects of his life (which it seems was quite tragic) and the show uses lots of old clips & old paperwork ... this seems pretty conclusive to me ...   Weldon's earnings in 1972 ... 

It IMPLIES (to me at least) that Getto Kitty was (MAYBE) a singer who Andy Stroud signed to STROUD and who Weldon & his band were paid $4000 to work with.

Musicians were always paid for their studio work (playing, arranging, producing) even if the artist themselves was often not. So it seems Weldon (& his guys) were paid $4000 to play on the Getto Kitty session. The $1100 from 'Nina Simone' was probably royalties for past songwriting / performance duties paid out on Nina's RCA tracks that were still selling.

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Roburt

[Tommy1]

40 minutes ago, Roburt said:

Coz Weldon Irvine was a famous jazz keyboard player & coz he'd written "Young, Gifted & Black" for Nina, they've made a documentary about him. This goes into all aspects of his life (which it seems was quite tragic) and the show uses lots of old clips & old paperwork ... this seems pretty conclusive to me ...   Weldon's earnings in 1972 ... 

It IMPLIES (to me at least) that Getto Kitty was (MAYBE) a singer who Andy Stroud signed to STROUD and who Weldon & his band were paid $4000 to work with.

Musicians were always paid for their studio work (playing, arranging, producing) even if the artist themselves was often not. So it seems Weldon (& his guys) were paid $4000 to play on the Getto Kitty session. The $1100 from 'Nina Simone' was probably royalties for past songwriting / performance duties paid out on Nina's RCA tracks that were still selling.

 

Impressive, thanks again Roburt!

[Geeselad]

Really informative, always wondered about this release, the jazz influence is obvious. 

[Roburt]

From my above posting, I'd add a comment. . . $4000 for working on the Getto Kitty session seems a lot, even if Weldon was paid the whole sum to cover both him & his band members playing on the session, him arranging & producing it too. $4000 would seem to me to cover a long studio session -- much longer than would be needed to just cut 2 tracks. Weldon & his guys were accomplished live / studio guys & experienced in studio work. So they would have come prepared & would have glided through each track quite quickly (IMO). Now Getto Kitty was probably in the studio for the 1st time, so might have had nerves, maybe not being a great singer anyway -- so maybe she needed 4 / 5 attempts at each song to get a usable take. My GUESS would be though that more than 2 tracks were laid down at the session & that Andy Stroud would have been provided with a master tape containing 4 (or more) finished cuts.

What would have happened to that master tape after 72/73 is anyone's guess. 

[Tommy1]

16 minutes ago, Roburt said:

From my above posting, I'd add a comment. . . $4000 for working on the Getto Kitty session seems a lot, even if Weldon was paid the whole sum to cover both him & his band members playing on the session, him arranging & producing it too. $4000 would seem to me to cover a long studio session -- much longer than would be needed to just cut 2 tracks. Weldon & his guys were accomplished live / studio guys & experienced in studio work. So they would have come prepared & would have glided through each track quite quickly (IMO). Now Getto Kitty was probably in the studio for the 1st time, so might have had nerves, maybe not being a great singer anyway -- so maybe she needed 4 / 5 attempts at each song to get a usable take. My GUESS would be though that more than 2 tracks were laid down at the session & that Andy Stroud would have been provided with a master tape containing 4 (or more) finished cuts.

What would have happened to that master tape after 72/73 is anyone's guess. 

I agree, it seems a lot! And your guess on more tracks is exciting. 

[Roburt]

From memory a typical studio musicians pay rate back in the late 60's / early 70's was around $10 to 15 / hour -- and lots of studios / producers tried to pay less than 'union rate'.

Today, things have moved on but not by that much. A typical studio musician (not a 'name' session player) will get around $25 per hour or $50 per completed song. Backing singers getting around the same rate. 

Using those figures, I'd guess that the Getto Kitty session ran for quite a while. I assume Weldon's band was around the same strength as when he backed up Nina Simone, lets go for a 5 strong musician team. Guess those guys did the backing vocals themselves (sounds that way on the 45), then no extra backing singers. But, to be safe, lets assume 2 backing singers. So a 7 strong team + Getto Kitty herself (who wouldn't be paid as it was her session and she was being charged with everything (studio hire, musician . backing singer hire, arranger & producer (both Weldon himself).

That would make (in my guess) the assembled teams hourly cost around $1000 an hour all in. So that would mean a session length of over 4 hours in all. Experienced musicians would practise the songs ahead of actually going into the studio, so could lay down a full track in around 30 minutes (for a 3 minute + cut).

Assuming all the above (& it's a big leap), then they could have cut around 6 to 8 tracks in all. 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Got confirmation from one of the Motown studio team of what I am on about above.

He confirms that the Motown musician rate (in the 60's) per guy was JUST $25 per session.

A session usually ran for 6 hours, so that worked out at around $4 per hour.

The US musicians union got involved & the rate was forced up to $125 per session eventually. The norm after Motown (& Golden World) went 'union', was $60 for a 3-hour session -- with a 4 song limit for masters and 6 song for demo versions. 

Wonder what the Motown band members got paid for playing on Motown Review shows .... these were staged (in the 60's) @ chilin circuit theatres (Howard in DC, Fox in Detroit, Royal in Baltimore, Uptown in Philly, Apollo in NY, etc) and a weeks engagement ran to 17 separate shows  -- 2 each night Mon/Tues/Wed/Thurs with 3 on Frid / Sat /Sun.

So 17 shows over a 7 day period (the usual stunt length at one of those theatres) would probably have earnt each musician around $200 I guess.

The guys involved thru the 60's were under the leadership of (a different times) Popcorn Wylie, EVD, Choker Campbell & Hamilton Bohannon.  

Edited June 7, 2023 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Back to Nina Simone again ... and her old backing singer ...

well Doris has a reissue out here ...  

[Roburt]

Seems that Andy Stroud was quite an astute manager. As stated above, he hooked up with Nina in 1961 when her career was a bit in the doldrums.

She'd had hits in 59/60 /61 but no 45 hits since then up to 1963. She'd cut a live album @ NY's Village Gate in 62 and this had captured her dynamic stage act. Nina was a very difficult person to deal with (when she was feeling out of sorts). She'd turn up late for gigs; sing what she wanted, not what her audience wanted; fall out with club owners (she was booked into the Village Gate on a regular basis from the end of the 50's to the end of the 60's -- but that didn't stop her claiming the club's owner treated her badly coz he was Jewish); she'd sell (or Andy would) the rights to her songs when she needed the money & then complain if future royalties didn't come her way from later sales.

Anyway, Stroud decided to book Nina into Carnegie Hall in Manhattan (just about NY's most prestigious music venue). He needed help landing the gig as he was a black, unknown to the Hall's management team. But land the gig he did and the show went ahead. Seeing it as a 'career relaunch' Andy organised for the concert to be recorded. This took place & an album escaped on Colpix in 63 (containing 7 tracks). Eight more would escape on her 'Folksy Nina' album in 64 but there were still more 'unused tracks' from the concert.

In all 18 songs she'd performed that night had been recorded & in 1990's, the master tapes from that recording were uncovered in a NY vault (the remaining unissued tracks also escaping in 2005). I guess Andy Stroud wouldn't just have put that one master tape in the vault, he'd have placed all the tapes he regarded as having 'value' in there.

Whether that included the Getto Kitty tapes I have no idea. BUT IF IT DID, then they must still be around somewhere in New York.  

[Roburt]

Nina live @ Carnegie Hall ... YOU CAN SING A RAINBOW ... she had started out wanting to be a classical pianist & you can tell that from this track ...

ww.youtube.com/watch?v=jf65e9YX50Q

[Roburt]

Nina Simone in action in Harlem in 69 ... don't know if Doris Willingham was still singing backing for her.

Summer Of Soul | A Questlove Jawn | Trailer | Hulu - YouTube

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFpPsW4ZKoE

Edited June 11, 2023 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Nina ain't been forgotten in the US ... a ceremony attended by Sam Waymon ... 

[Dean Rudland]

On 06/06/2023 at 07:41, Roburt said:

From my above posting, I'd add a comment. . . $4000 for working on the Getto Kitty session seems a lot, even if Weldon was paid the whole sum to cover both him & his band members playing on the session, him arranging & producing it too. $4000 would seem to me to cover a long studio session -- much longer than would be needed to just cut 2 tracks. Weldon & his guys were accomplished live / studio guys & experienced in studio work. So they would have come prepared & would have glided through each track quite quickly (IMO). Now Getto Kitty was probably in the studio for the 1st time, so might have had nerves, maybe not being a great singer anyway -- so maybe she needed 4 / 5 attempts at each song to get a usable take. My GUESS would be though that more than 2 tracks were laid down at the session & that Andy Stroud would have been provided with a master tape containing 4 (or more) finished cuts.

What would have happened to that master tape after 72/73 is anyone's guess. 

I think that the $4000 is more than likely for the work that he did for Getto Kitty Productions -  there were two albums and one single for RCA by Sonny Til, Percy Mayfield and the Swordsmen, and two Nina singles and an album from Nina.