Younghearts Query

[Stateside]

Something that has always intrigued me are the two different versions of "A Little Togetherness" and I'm not sure if it's been covered before.

My understanding is that the "Millionaire" verse (50secs in) is taken from The New Younghearts version on Soultown (which I have) and this is the version that seems to be the one available to stream and on cd.

The other version without the "Millionaire" verse is the Canterbury release and Kings of Hearts version on Zea (which I also have).

What I want to know. Did both of the two different versions below ever come out on Canterbury? If you go on Youtube (below) it would appear so, but I think that's just laziness by the person uploading the mp3 either from cd or downloading.

The Millionaire verse (New Younghearts Version) Fast forward to 50 seconds

The non- millionaire verse fast forward to 50 secs

New Young Hearts version 50 secs

Kings of Hearts

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Stateside

[Mick Holdsworth]

The first of the videos listed is, as you say, just the wrong soundfile. The three word title, "(A) Little Togetherness" is the short version,

However the "millionaire" full version did get pressed. I have one, and I only know of one other in the hands of DJ Honky in New York. It is a styrene press, two-word title "Little Togetherness", and it has an incorrect timing of 2:45.

To add more confusion, the "Tempos" labelled copy is only a standard short take, even though the timing on the label is 3:15

Over the years, I've had three "Tempos", and all play short versions. I still live in hope that a long version exists with the Tempos 3:15 label, but as the Younghearts labelled "milionaire" press appears to be quite rare, I doubt it, Would love to be proved wrong though.

Mick

 

[Roburt]

The Younghearts, New Younghearts & Kings of Hearts are all, in a way, the same group.

BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME MEMBERS ... The Younghearts manager (probably Booby Sanders) was a bit ruthless & used to screw the group members over money on a regular basis. So when a member would get tired of this he'd quit the group, sometimes all the members would quit at the same time.

Bobby wasn't bothered, he'd just find a different group, sign em, rename em and a few days later the Younghearts, NYH or  KofH would be back on the road undertaking the groups bookings. Bobby Sanders and Charles Ingersoll had started out at the beginning of the 60's in the LA group, the Extremes.

I seem to recall, Al Boyd telling me that after he'd relocated to LA, the Imperial Wonders were even a set of Younghearts for a few days. The Imperial Wonders from Cleveland were hired by Bobby to become the group after Ron Preyer & his guys went their own way. Bobby told the Imp.W that the original group had split up, but that a new 45 was due out on them, so he needed new guys to promote the single. But one night, a few days later, both groups were playing shows in clubs on the same LA street. The Imperial Wonders went to meet the 'original group' and when told about their situation, the Imp. Wonder's quit as the Younghearts right there.

It was Ron Preyers 4 guy's (which included Charles Ingersoll) who recorded their Minit stuff; Ron then led a trio (that also included Charles Ingersoll & Bobby Solomon) on the 20th Century stuff. The New Younghearts were 4 totally different guys & included Mark Putney in their line-up. Richard Dimples Fields was lead singer with one set of Younghearts. Many other guys were used on other of the recordings credited to the group under their 3 different names, others were in 'live' versions of the groups. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Roburt

[Stateside]

37 minutes ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

The first of the videos listed is, as you say, just the wrong soundfile. The three word title, "(A) Little Togetherness" is the short version,

However the "millionaire" full version did get pressed. I have one, and I only know of one other in the hands of DJ Honky in New York. It is a styrene press, two-word title "Little Togetherness", and it has an incorrect timing of 2:45.

To add more confusion, the "Tempos" labelled copy is only a standard short take, even though the timing on the label is 3:15

Over the years, I've had three "Tempos", and all play short versions. I still live in hope that a long version exists with the Tempos 3:15 label, but as the Younghearts labelled "milionaire" press appears to be quite rare, I doubt it, Would love to be proved wrong though.

Mick

 

Thanks Mick, That pretty much answers all my queries

Kev

[Northern Soul Uk]

Also the 'Kings of hearts' version, is an extended version, a few seconds more at the end. Not sure if this is the same on any other presses??

[Goldsoul]

On 15/05/2023 at 13:27, Roburt said:

The Younghearts, New Younghearts & Kings of Hearts are all, in a way, the same group.

BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME MEMBERS ... The Younghearts manager (probably Booby Sanders) was a bit ruthless & used to screw the group members over money on a regular basis. So when a member would get tired of this he'd quit the group, sometimes all the members would quit at the same time.

Bobby wasn't bothered, he'd just find a different group, sign em, rename em and a few days later the Younghearts, NYH or  KofH would be back on the road undertaking the groups bookings.

I seem to recall, Al Boyd telling me that after he'd relocated to LA, the Imperial Wonders were even a set of Younghearts for a few days.

Find the allegation against the late Jerome Lenoir(Bobby Sanders) quite distasteful. Ever met him?

A very nice guy who helped us tremendously at SoultripUSA in March 04 attracting many LA Soul legends including Younghearts lead Ron Preyer, another Bobby S protégée who speaks well of the man. 
If Alphonso Boyd(I interviewed him in 85) operated as a version of the Younghearts group, he never mentioned it. 
 

Bobby was entertaining and genuinely helpful. 
He got on famously with everyone present including 300 Brits.  
 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Goldsoul

[Roburt]

You may not like what I put above, but I didn't just make it up.

There was an old thread on here back in 2012 where evidence of what I posted was made available (much of it now gone as old web sites have since disappeared). With help from the likes of Lou Ragland, Bobby Wade & John Wilson, I have done extensive research on Cleveland Soul matters. That included chatting with the Imp.W's Al Boyd on a number of occasions about what happened to them in 1970. The 1970 line-up of the Younghearts had split with Bobby Sanders & gone with Jim Brown as their manager (Jim having been involved with Cleve soul acts / Way Out Records back in Cleveland) and Al Boyd's guys (who Bobby had hired to replace the other set) found out what was going on & so also quit as the Younghearts too.

Some related stuff is still up on the net ...  for instance ...  Imperial Wonders interview with Al Boyd 2002 by Steve Guarnori  on Mixcloud ... 

www.mixcloud.com/steve-guarnori/imperial-wonders-interview-with-al-boyd-2002/

The group / groups involved had other managers after Bobby -- I don't have evidence as to why they left his stable and found new managers though (but can guess at the reason why).

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Can't recall if any of the books out there that document Jim Brown's life deal with his interactions with the Younghearts.

The one that I have certainly includes some info on his music biz dealings but it's many years since I read it..

[Goldsoul]

Quote you ‘I don’t have evidence’

Quit dissing respected music legends you have never met. You have no scientific evidence whatsoever! 

[Roburt]

Seems only Goldsoul knows ... we all know that's BU******

[Goldsoul]

At least we don’t start waffling without having some deep knowledge  about the subject matter. We knew Bobby Sanders well  

Cease with the ‘I have no evidence’ routine, as it becomes disrespectful to the person named. 
 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Goldsoul
Attempting to draw a line on this provocative thread.

[Roburt]

MORE ON THIS PROVOCATIVE THREAD ... There's lots of evidence out there, it's just some folk are too lazy to spend the time looking for it.

You could start by clicking on the Mixcloud link above. Guess you just shut your ears & eyes and go by the adage ... see no evil, hear no evil.  

[Goldsoul]

YOUR PROVOCATIVE STATEMENT!

’The Younghearts manager (probably Booby Sanders) was a bit ruthless & used to screw the group members over money on a regular basis’

 

YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER and have never met the guy. 
 

 

[Kenb]

I never met Bobby. And i can accept both accounts of Bobby by the two posters (although i do admit the use of "screw" in the context it was used, isn't one i'd ever use)

When i was researching Ella Woods/Miss Lady/Soultown etc, for the published soul source article back in Oct 2021 i did come across Bobby Sanders.

One 1965 account has the 22yr old Bobby turning away one man and one 17yr old juvenile from his door, only for the two to return with a gun and force another resident to take them to Bobby's apartment. The two men took $200 from Bobby and shot him in both legs, causing compound fractures. Which were treated at the Central Receiving Hospital.

The two men could have known that Bobby carried money and chanced their arm, in which case he was a 'true' victim OR the two men may have had a 'beef' with Bobby ( based on the fact they rerturned).

Curiously  i never found an account for the charges, any trials, or outcome?

the Music (business) in the 60's and early 70's was a tough and sometimes dirty business. Stuff got done by people that probably wouldn't have got done in later life.

[Roburt]

The Younghearts performing in 2016 ... Al Boyd (ex Imperial Wonders) in the centre, 1960's group leader Ron Preyer on the right ... 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Roburt

[Stateside]

It's a shame they look to be singing to a sparse audience. I would like to think they would get a better reception in the uk.