Pitching up records, opinions and history

[Geeselad]

Aye up all, insomnia has given me time to pose this question; what was the first venue or and recording to use additional pitch to enhance a tune. I know many will deplore the tactic but personally my slider is seldom at zero. I've even been known to pitch down. 

[Amsterdam Russ]

Indirectly, but you could start with the Belgian Popcorn scene, which existed and exists almost entirely in pitching records down to a uniform dance tempo. 

[Mgm 1251]

I believe Moses Smith(You Don’t  Love Me),a bootleg of The Epitome Of Sound,was pitched up to 47rpm,back in the early 70’s(way before my time)and came with a more attractive label than its original counterpart...

[Tlscapital]

As a late comer on the UK Northern Soul scene in the nineties at the 100 Club I was dipped into what was likely the 'golden' era there. With a musical policy of classy like sixties orientated sounds with dee-jays competing and establishing their own trade marks. That then felt most refreshing in what seemed like a "healthy" environment.

Although being from Belgium I got to know about the serious 'pitching' of Pop-Corn dreadful habits (that I looked upon with mockery and despair - depending on the record they would 'distort') and understanding where the Northern Soul scene at it's commercial height in the seventies was coming from I thought that this could be IT incarnated.

Until one nighter (my last there) where a younger 'mod' like dee-jay started some sounds I recognized both from the Pop-Corn field or the New Breed "R'n'B"... understanding that this bad sounds as bad news to me was a 'game changer' that would take over the best of what I did find at the 100 Club. My 'musical' incarnated haven was no more.

My naive or idealistic image of what was that the then 'underground' scene would come out to be an 'overground' scene all over again for the worst. Later I would not be surprised but only upset to hear big dee-jays playing rare records that I couldn't recognize from the first notes so bad these were pitched up ! In my book a fatal disgrace.

The pitch introduction on turntables participated first on speed stability functionality. Later it was used by dee-jays to match tempos and even later to mix/blend in tunes. The Pop-Corn pitched 'instrumentals' at first (what they were playing at first) to match the dancers tempo allowed them to play more records regardless of the record's tempos.

They achieved to do that on cheap Lenco L70 turntables and the likes that were fit with a sliding speed bar with halts marked at 33, 45, 78 rpm but would pass through all the in-between speeds too. They would add their own markings on that turntable's speed bar and write what they thought would be the "right" speed on their records...

In discotheques they had SL-1200's and there the use of pitch was often used few rpm's above '0' as with 'louder volume' the bass overwhelms the high frequencies which in return kills the dynamic in the playback'. Which is true to a point. With better gear in an optimal location that is not true anymore but so hard to achieve when  possible.

Adding speed to compensate such "muffled" like playback of low frequencies overflowing high frequencies is bleak. Because dynamic is given through high frequencies band. But such speed increment to compensate that is never good to my ears and merely a bad fixture impairing else where on top... Troubling the listening experience if any.

On a good revealing phono set-up such speed trafficking is either an overkill or pure bad treatment. Guessing we are all raised differently, have different ear ability and sensitivity, preferences if ever but distortions will appear many a times where it's not improving anything actually but on the contrary adds up interferences in the playback IMO.

Used to be into Jamaican sounds before the soul thing and there the same practices existed but they were all the same to me never looked-upon as an 'improvement' actually. On the contrary as a kid home experiments made me realize that this practice is actually more of a 'vanity' issue than a 'discovery' for A "better"... How I still see and hear that.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Tlscapital

[Mick Holdsworth]

Alongside the aforementioned Moses Smith / Epitome, Simon Soussan sped up a fair few of his boots. Detroit Shakers (Rainbows), Frank Wilson (In). Others escape me but there were more I'm sure.

If you listen to I.O.U., the B Side of Johnny Caswell, I'm sure that is sped up. I initially heard a as a youth on a Champion Boot, amd assumed that it was just Simon at it again, but realised it was exactly the same on the Decca release. That would mean right from the start someone decided to adjust the tempo at the production stage, and a consequence of tempo change is to change the pitch (and vice versa), ie. the faster the tempo, the higher the pitch.

 

 

[Mgm 1251]

Yes....not only do you speed up the tempo,but also the vocal,a mid tempo tune with a slightly high pitched vocal could end up sounding a bit’Pinky and Perky-ish’....

[Carty]

James Browns  Night Train  on U.K. Sue  was pitched up , I read somewhere to make it shorter to fit in with radio play times ,     thé one that confuses me is Ann Caudell   longing for you , the reissues  and a lot of youtube clips  seem very obviously speeded up , it just sounds so much better (imo of course ) taken down a few revs . does anyone know any more about this ?

[Dobber]

There’s been a few occasions where pitching works! In the 80’s I had only ever heard the Detroit prophets-suspicion,for me it was the ultimate new northern soul discovery,but then it turned out to be the Motown male group the originals but sped up to sound like a girl group! I didn’t and still don’t really like the original “originals” version! So I was dissapointed twice on that occasion

[Ian Parker]

A certain 'female' dj, immediately turns the pitch speed up, on getting behind the decks.   Not entirely sure why,  I see no reason to do it, on a perfectly good record . 

[Paraboliccurve]

42 minutes ago, Dobber said:

There’s been a few occasions where pitching works! In the 80’s I had only ever heard the Detroit prophets-suspicion,for me it was the ultimate new northern soul discovery,but then it turned out to be the Motown male group the originals but sped up to sound like a girl group! I didn’t and still don’t really like the original “originals” version! So I was dissapointed twice on that occasion

In my early 1980s days on the scooter scene before I got properly into northern I absolutely loved the Detroit Prophets - I'd say it was one of about a dozen records that made me think I needed to find out more about this northern soul stuff.

Like you Dobber I still prefer it to the Originals - whenever I listen to that I keep waiting for them to wake up and crack on with it.

[Supercorsa]

11 minutes ago, Paraboliccurve said:

In my early 1980s days on the scooter scene before I got properly into northern I absolutely loved the Detroit Prophets - I'd say it was one of about a dozen records that made me think I needed to find out more about this northern soul stuff.

Like you Dobber I still prefer it to the Originals - whenever I listen to that I keep waiting for them to wake up and crack on with it.

As mentioned by two others, feel exactly the same about Suspicion. 

[Mgm 1251]

41 minutes ago, Paraboliccurve said:

In my early 1980s days on the scooter scene before I got properly into northern I absolutely loved the Detroit Prophets - I'd say it was one of about a dozen records that made me think I needed to find out more about this northern soul stuff.

Like you Dobber I still prefer it to the Originals - whenever I listen to that I keep waiting for them to wake up and crack on with it.

I too did the scooter scene back then,and have the DP disc,I think it has Jimmy McFarland’Lonely Lover’ on the other side....was that speeded up as well,do you think...?

[Dobber]

44 minutes ago, Paraboliccurve said:

In my early 1980s days on the scooter scene before I got properly into northern I absolutely loved the Detroit Prophets - I'd say it was one of about a dozen records that made me think I needed to find out more about this northern soul stuff.

Like you Dobber I still prefer it to the Originals - whenever I listen to that I keep waiting for them to wake up and crack on with it.

I couldn’t have put it better myself

1 minute ago, Mgm 1251 said:

I too did the scooter scene back then,and have the DP disc,I think it has Jimmy McFarland’Lonely Lover’ on the other side....was that speeded up as well,do you think...?

Your right it does have JF on the back,that’s how I got to hear that tune too! Don’t recall it been sped up? food for thought though!

[Paul-s]

On 25/04/2023 at 02:08, Geeselad said:

Aye up all, insomnia has given me time to pose this question; what was the first venue or and recording to use additional pitch to enhance a tune. I know many will deplore the tactic but personally my slider is seldom at zero. I've even been known to pitch down. 

I always feel free to play with pitch.

A prime example is Deep South (Fourth Level). I originally heard this track from Shifty's box in the early 2000's at a friends house pre- 100 club, it was covered up and pitched down by -6 (or thereabouts) and sounded perfect. After I managed to get a cut of it (years later 2007 ish I still kept it pitched down. Hence, to me, the more uptempo re-release version just sounds wrong and not as good.

Crawl to Me - Johnny Davis, is another example of a tune that I give a tiny tweak  up

Paul Burton - Very Hard to Make It is another that I used to tweak up a tad.   

etc etc.....

Its personal taste I guess...I certainly don't feel honour bound by any unwritten law not to play around with the pitch.

[Douglaschip]

Towana and the Total Destruction - Wear your natural baby - Romark

Ty Karim - Natural do - aka Wear your natural baby - Unreleased but clearly the original studio take then speeded up.

Both brilliant - to my ears the Towana speeded up version sounds way ahead of its time.

[Damian]

Following this one with interest... as one who always keeps the pitch at '0' and feels a bit like cheating whenever I give a particular 45 a nudge (+) to "breathe some life" into it. Yet at the same time I think it's a creative tool just like any other, like beatmatching or any other of the many things that can be done with a turntable outside of playing records straight. Some tracks just lay there at '0' and become a lot more interesting with as little as a +2 on the pitch slider (example that comes to mind: "Play Thing" by R.L. Griffins on Ride). 

What I don't like is pitching up so far that the vocals start sounding like Alvin & the Chipmunks... which I have heard done many times and it always really distracts me from the song. Finding that sweet spot between giving the track some legs and making it sound completely unnatural can be tough with some of them, especially with higher-pitched singers. 

Don't even get me started on all those Popcorn clips on Youtube with the digital time-stretched pitch shifting where they attempt to keep the pitch while slowing down the tempo and it sounds so glitchy and unnatural it is simply unlistenable (well to me anyway). 

 

[Ted Massey]

Sugar Bush Code 3205 a recent new play by my mate Taz  on the NS scene is much better pitched down -4 

and i can always remember John Vincent 2/3 years ago at a Worcester all nighter pitch up an instrumental +6. I found out the hard way as i hadnt noticed and the Ravins was very fast for a few seconds lol

Edited April 27, 2023 by Ted Massey

[Jessie Pinkman]

I always thought The Barons of soul ~ You need love sounded better pitched up slightly.

It seems a bit sluggish to me at 45rpm

[Spook]

51 minutes ago, Jessie Pinkman said:

I always thought The Barons of soul ~ You need love sounded better pitched up slightly.

It seems a bit sluggish to me at 45rpm

Agreed I used to go to +8 on Barons Of Soul

[Mal C]

14 hours ago, Douglaschip said:

Towana and the Total Destruction - Wear your natural baby - Romark

Ty Karim - Natural do - aka Wear your natural baby - Unreleased but clearly the original studio take then speeded up.

Both brilliant - to my ears the Towana speeded up version sounds way ahead of its time.

Just bought a Towana and the Total Destruction, I'll pitch it up forthwith and report back!!

Is Ty Karim - Natural do - aka Wear your natural baby, the one on Ebony Douglas?

Edited April 27, 2023 by Mal C

[Chalky]

On 25/04/2023 at 10:26, Dobber said:

There’s been a few occasions where pitching works! In the 80’s I had only ever heard the Detroit prophets-suspicion,for me it was the ultimate new northern soul discovery,but then it turned out to be the Motown male group the originals but sped up to sound like a girl group! I didn’t and still don’t really like the original “originals” version! So I was dissapointed twice on that occasion

Only the Detroit Prophets wasn’t pitched up, not intentionally.  The tape player recorded fast.   New batteries a bugger

[Chris Turnbull]

Remember hearing a Colin Law Allanton set on Chalky's mixcloud page, and either someone had new batteries in their tape player that night or the decks were pitched up at +8 for the whole set - probably the latter I would guess 

Loads of times actual record much slower than I've heard it played out - Just Bros Carlena, Jimmy Seals Yesterday, Carl Underwood Ain't you lyin', etc - felt a bit smoke and mirrors when I first realised 

Butch's Diane Lewis, Jean Carter, Mello Souls, etc?

[Paraboliccurve]

2 hours ago, Chalky said:

Only the Detroit Prophets wasn’t pitched up, not intentionally.  The tape player recorded fast.   New batteries a bugger

Would that happen? Surely new batteries would only make the machine record at the correct speed? But a happy accident if so!

[Dobber]

I heard a tune on YouTube years back,it was the only video on there of a female artist on a yellow Motown vip (can’t remember her name,not a usual Motown name) it took me ages to find a copy,when it arrived and I played it,it was uncomfortably slower! The lesson being, don’t just listen to one copy of a song,seek out others!

[Dobber]

3 minutes ago, Dobber said:

I heard a tune on YouTube years back,it was the only video on there of a female artist on a yellow Motown vip (can’t remember her name,not a usual Motown name) it took me ages to find a copy,when it arrived and I played it,it was uncomfortably slower! The lesson being, don’t just listen to one copy of a song,seek out others!

I think the surname was “herd or heard)?

[Godzilla]

7 minutes ago, Dobber said:

I think the surname was “herd or heard)?

This one?
 

 

[Dobber]

4 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

This one?
 

 

Haha yeah that’s the one,the actual 45 is slower,which sounds ok,but when you’ve only heard(excuse the pun) the sped up version,the real one is a bit of a let down,you feel like you need to push it along

[Paraboliccurve]

Blimey, the vocals must have sounded like Pinky and Perky sped up

[Dobber]

Not far off! Nearly as bad as the inmates-this is the day

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Paraboliccurve said:

Would that happen? Surely new batteries would only make the machine record at the correct speed? But a happy accident if so!

Dunno but as far as I am aware it was accidental, think the story has been told on here by the person concerned in the distant past

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

On 25/04/2023 at 11:12, Ian Parker said:

A certain 'female' dj, immediately turns the pitch speed up, on getting behind the decks.   Not entirely sure why,  I see no reason to do it, on a perfectly good record . 

At the last nighter I went to around 5 years ago, the promoter insisted all DJ’s pitch up all records. 
I’m not against pitching up or down if it improves the record, but a blanket instruction to pitch up any record is ridiculous. 

[Sutty]

A producer I knew years ago informed me he pitched all his recordings up a quarter tone to tighten up the bass

[Benji]

Personally I think there's nothing wrong with pitching up and down a notch or two if this makes a record more danceable. As long as it doesn't make the record sound quirky in any way. And as long as not all records in a dj set are played pitched.

[jibber]

I would have thought pitching up slightly was ok if it allowed your DJ set to flow a little more , can't understand pitching up perfectly danceable tracks though, possibly just play them in an order where the tempo builds naturally, over pitching can ruin some tracks , if the crowd are into a higher tempo, play a higher tempo set.

[Shinehead]

Bit off topic about djs pitching up but I am certain I once read a article with Bobby Eli  the writer/producer who said the James Bounty tune was speeded up from the original recording always loved this track but certain elements of it do seem too fast background vocals etc.

[Carty]

I am ok with it as long as I dont  suspect that it has happened , once I know this is what has been done , the song never really works for me  again    . Never suspected  this was the case with James bounty , but now you mention it ......    I think maybe  there is a difference between a producer doing it  and a dj , at the stage the producer is involved it is not yet the finished product , by the time the dj has it , by speeding up /slowing down , they are changing the finished  work as it was intended to be , this may not be the case with acetates etc , but I mean with records that have at least made the demo stage .

[Dave Pinch]

dont know about pitching up or down but the orlons , spinning top sounds better at 33rpm to these ears 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Dave Pinch
spelling

[Hooker1951]

Make sure you take good gear the music will pitch up without altering anything and sound better too trust me

KR

ML

[Chalky]

21 hours ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

At the last nighter I went to around 5 years ago, the promoter insisted all DJ’s pitch up all records. 
I’m not against pitching up or down if it improves the record, but a blanket instruction to pitch up any record is ridiculous. 

Where was that Drew?  I've never been told to do that and I think I've done every nighter apart from 100 in recent years up top Lifeline ending.

[Chalky]

7 hours ago, Carty said:

I am ok with it as long as I dont  suspect that it has happened , once I know this is what has been done , the song never really works for me  again    . Never suspected  this was the case with James bounty , but now you mention it ......    I think maybe  there is a difference between a producer doing it  and a dj , at the stage the producer is involved it is not yet the finished product , by the time the dj has it , by speeding up /slowing down , they are changing the finished  work as it was intended to be , this may not be the case with acetates etc , but I mean with records that have at least made the demo stage .

That is my way of thinking too though the way a recording was intended doesn't always lend itself to the dance floor but a little tweak can make all the difference

[Happy Feet]

I think the Ojays , Look Over Your Shoulder , definitely pitched up at least + 3 sounds like a floor filler 

[Tlscapital]

11 minutes ago, Happy Feet said:

I think the Ojays , Look Over Your Shoulder , definitely pitched up at least + 3 sounds like a floor filler 

On a humerons tone but for real IMO 'A SACRILEGE'  Play the Implements version if you want a more sustained mid-tempo danceable version. Honestly if I was hearing that out pitched I would diss the dee-jay and curse him/her 

[Happy Feet]

2 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

On a humerons tone but for real IMO 'A SACRILEGE'  Play the Implements version if you want a more sustained mid-tempo danceable version. Honestly if I was hearing that out pitched I would diss the dee-jay and curse him/her 

Lol , maybe due to years of very loud music and industrial noise , I have now been diagnosed 80% deaf in one ear and 50% in the other , will have to wear my earing aids and give it another listen , but your right regarding the Implements version , will have to start saving for a copy 

[Geeselad]

On 25/04/2023 at 08:41, Mgm 1251 said:

Yes....not only do you speed up the tempo,but also the vocal,a mid tempo tune with a slightly high pitched vocal could end up sounding a bit’Pinky and Perky-ish’....

Alternatively a dull baritone could sound a pleasant. 

[Shinehead]

Would prefer if they were left as they are , they are the work of the creators the producers etc. thousands of records at the right tempo to go at.

 

[Geeselad]

I'd like to add that this practice doesn't work without discretion, well know classics are to be avoided IMHO, it's a technique that works best with less familiar titles. I appreciate peoples more purist perspective and it's not something I ever do listening to albums at home but playing out is a different matter.