Northern Soul At The BBC Proms 2023

[Chalky]

It is absolute rubbish to suggest members on here or on the "scene" wish to keep the music for themselves.  Many are protective of the scene and if it wasn't for the scene and the diggers then the BBC wouldn't have anything to "celebrate".  

As said many times every time someone tries to jump on the bandwagon, further "divvyfication", they do not do the scene justice.  The concert orchestra of The BBC have so far made a mess of the other acts they have tried to "celebrate".  Buddy Holly was pretty bad, Elvis not much better.  

The further divvyfication by The BBC Concert Orchestra, the vocals I have heard so far from The Proms wasn't that great either.  I don't hold too much hope out for the rest when I watch.

As said previously by myself, Paul and others, this is everything the scene isn't, it is everything we went to nighters to escape and the people around this the very kind of person we went to nighters to avoid.  It would appear most of you do not get that, maybe you were never fully invested in the scene like many who knows? 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Chalky

[Roburt]

Folk who opposed this concert really seem to be obtuse just for the sake of it.

I said I didn't attend during the Wigan era ... to anyone with any grasp on reality, to me that indicates I attended on a regular basis before & after the Wigan era. So I guess I must know that the scene didn't start & finish with Wigan.

Last post from me on this thread as it's beginning to disappear up it's own ass ... 

Those that appreciated the BBC concert will continue to do so & will look forward to it being screened on BBC2. Those who oppose that view will no doubt continue to fume at our opinion.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Roburt

[Maxwell]

Yet here you are telling us plebs how good you are and we who kept the scene going for you to take it to the higher echelons. Many thanks you are truly one of the best. Mr Roburt

Edited July 21, 2023 by Maxwell
Forgot to mention.

[Roburt]

LOL

[Kev Cane]

1 hour ago, Roburt said:

RE: many of us just didn't find the BBC representation of 'Northern Soul' either soulful or tasteful. Or, in fact, anything to do with Northern Soul (except in the song titles and advertising slogans).

I think many on here must have selective memories ...

I went away from niters the entire period that Wigan was ruling the waves ... when I returned to the fold, I couldn't believe how much ABSOLUTE POP SHITE was now being called NORTHERN SOUL.

And there lies the problem with the misrepresentation of the genre Robert, total bollocks, my previous post more than touches on that perception 

[Kev Cane]

6 minutes ago, Kev Cane said:

And there lies the problem with the misrepresentation of the genre Robert, total bollocks, my previous post more than touches on that perception 

Your last paragraph sums it up Robert

[Soulcarp]

45 minutes ago, Roburt said:

Folk who opposed this concert really seem to be obtuse just for the sake of it.

I said I didn't attend during the Wigan era ... to anyone with any grasp on reality, to me that indicates I attended on a regular basis before & after the Wigan era. So I guess I must know that the scene didn't start & finish with Wigan.

Last post from me on this thread as it's beginning to disappear up it's own ass ... 

Those that appreciated the BBC concert will continue to do so & will look forward to it being screened on BBC2. Those who oppose that view will no doubt continue to fume at our opinion.

Why do people thing soul revolves around Wigan to think it’s the B all is beyond me just saying 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Soulcarp

[Maxwell]

59 minutes ago, Roburt said:

LOL

I'm interested in why you did leave the scene from 73 to 81 and then you came back to the shit hole you left that was playing white pop music. And how did you discover the music had changed?

[Stevegods]

 

 

Interesting thread and like many, it’s one that can cause divide and controversy. It can bring up deep felt divisions and personal opinions that can sometimes be seen to be personalised .

It shouldn’t . 

It’s all about personal taste and not about the credibility of what’s being presented .

It’s good that we all don’t agree , it would be a sad old world if we did .

However it does show the deep love and care that lovers of this music have, and hopefully will always have. 

If I’m honest, I hate the John Cleese sketch attitude of “ I look up to him but down to him “ take on things, because of what you know, or who you know, as we all have a valued say and opinion on the scene. 

There is a lot of BS, but also on here a hell of a lot of informative advice , information and knowledge, both given and at hand . That’s because people care and have a love of what they listen to .

This has caused some controversy , just as the cameras getting into Wigan did , and Pye Disco Demand series , and no doubt there will be something else in the future ( I hope ) . 

For me , it was nothing to do with authenticity of either the performances or the songs , it was a celebration of the music we all love .

Yes it wasn’t true to the originals , and yes you could say it was exploitative in a way. It was certainly not really all about Wigan cause I started off as a Highland Room lad and loved the Carstairs rendition they did.

We may well all agree to disagree here and that’s always been part of the scene , but what I did find at the Albert Hall was like minded individuals that had traveled miles and the vast majority, if not  all enjoyed themselves. 

I’ve been to many a concert at the Albert Hall , as I now live in London , but this Scoucer has never ever talked to as many different people on a night out there , why …. because Soulies are like that …. and long may it continue . 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Stevegods

[Maxwell]

23 minutes ago, Stevegods said:

 

 

Interesting thread and like many, it’s one that can cause divide and controversy. It can bring up deep felt divisions and personal opinions that can sometimes be seen to be personalised .

It shouldn’t . 

It’s all about personal taste and not about the credibility of what’s being presented .

It’s good that we all don’t agree , it would be a sad old world if we did .

However it does show the deep love and care that lovers of this music have, and hopefully will always have. 

If I’m honest, I hate the John Cleese sketch attitude of “ I look up to him but down to him “ take on things, because of what you know, or who you know, as we all have a valued say and opinion on the scene. 

There is a lot of BS, but also on here a hell of a lot of informative advice , information and knowledge, both given and at hand . That’s because people care and have a love of what they listen to .

This has caused some controversy , just as the cameras getting into Wigan did , and Pye Disco Demand series , and no doubt there will be something else in the future ( I hope ) . 

For me , it was nothing to do with authenticity of either the performances or the songs , it was a celebration of the music we all love .

Yes it wasn’t true to the originals , and yes you could say it was exploitative in a way. It was certainly not really all about Wigan cause I started off as a Highland Room lad and loved the Carstairs rendition they did.

We may well all agree to disagree here and that’s always been part of the scene , but what I did find at the Albert Hall was like minded individuals that had traveled miles and the vast majority, if not  all enjoyed themselves. 

I’ve been to many a concert at the Albert Hall , as I now live in London , but this Scoucer has never ever talked to as many different people on a night out there , why …. because Soulies are like that …. and long may it continue . 

 

 

Embrace that moment, enjoy it for what it was. A homage to the longest running youth culture. We where there and loads wish they could have experienced it in the flesh. I did and wouldn't trade the world for it.

[JJMMWG DuPree]

9 hours ago, Kenb said:

Is this really the case Russ? 

"I don’t want their songs to be widely known - I want to keep them to myself.  I want to keep the songs and the artists/writers/arrangers in the dark so that only I know them. I want to keep your great song buried; I don’t want anybody else to know you made this; I want to keep you underground - just so I can show you off and play you as a trophy for me".

Or is it, people(some) just want to hear them the way they were recorded?

Some people like the songs and some like the records.  I can go along with that, but I cannot deny that there are a whole lot of people out there who care more for the rarity of their records than for the people responsible for the sound on them.  Anyone who renames the artist and title of a record is making sure that the people who still own a share in the content will not get any reward for their efforts from them.

[Tlscapital]

8 hours ago, JJMMWG DuPree said:

Some people like the songs and some like the records.  I can go along with that, but I cannot deny that there are a whole lot of people out there who care more for the rarity of their records than for the people responsible for the sound on them.  Anyone who renames the artist and title of a record is making sure that the people who still own a share in the content will not get any reward for their efforts from them.

This has nothing to do with northern soul exclusively. It's a dee-jay practice that's been going on since the fifties where the sources for the records are limited like in Jamaica for a well known example. In the competitive world of dee-jays the exclusivity of a specific "sound" will participate in a dee-jay's reputation building-up. Something I don't like but it's only that. This has nothing to do with the artist's "care" or credentials if ever. 

Russ was just caricaturing too simply those who didn't embrace the BBC proms "celebrating" (I still don't know what exact event / date) openly on Public Broadcast for the world to see (sic - the embarrassment) event like some kind of 'scrooge' (that some are I agree) who want the northern soul to remain like some secret 'Free Maçon Satanic' cult where all is  'hidden' with secret sounds of C/U OVO's... A worsened caricature.

As opposed to those self-videos of some attending the BBC Northern Soul Proms on the other hand that are of real people attending and celebrating. And no caricatures or are they ? At least in comparison one is real and truly embarrassing (even shared on social medias ) and the one Russ made-up if inspired by few of the worse characters from the scene only fictional still. There's not one to prefer but one is real, exposed and more about than a few...

Edited July 22, 2023 by Tlscapital

[Chalky]

Jeez cover ups again.  What pointless petty arguments. They are failed records in the retail world, (re)discovered years later and reactivated by an underground dance scene 1000s of miles away.  The vast majority of artists associated with the scene would have had no recognition at all if it wasn’t for the diggers, Djs and collectors.  

Some of those covering records up have done more for these artists than anyone else. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Chalky

[Steve G]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

Jeez cover ups again.  Whats pointless petty arguments. They are failed records in the retail world, (re)discovered years later and reactivated by an underground dance scene 1000s of miles away.  The vast majority of artists associated with the scene would have had no recognition at all if it wasn’t for the diggers, Djs and collectors.  

Some of those covering records up have done more for these artists than anyone else. 

It's quite funny this perception that artists are all lovely folk and being ripped off somehow by DJs having a few cover ups and playing them in underground clubs to a few hundred people. Of course they are not.  

[Woodbutcher]

One assumes Auntie Beeb did the right thing regarding artists , writers etc , or did they conveniently bypass all that by using different artists and arrangements to produce pastiches ... 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Woodbutcher

[Mal C]

God there are some long posts on here! I don’t know about the BBC Proms I don’t  pay the licence fee, haven’t for over a decade…

But if I might, I heard that ‘Keep on Talkin’ cover in Selfridges this afternoon, and sang along… it was momentary fun!  but it does not compare to dropping everything at the bar to run like the wind to the dance floor to dance to your favourite record.  

and if I have read a few posts correctly, to compare one to the other is pointless, the proms sounds like a bit of fun, but the real fun is turning up at the door Paying your money, and walking up the stairs to the haunting sound of ‘Bud Harper’ (insert your favourite track here).

thats  the real deal, cold nights, drenched in drizzle and yellow street lights, en route to Wolverhampton or Stafford etc, in the car with your mates going to a venue…. 

Unless the bbc can offer that experience, all else, is just a bit of fun:-) 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Mal C

[Mithras]

On 15/07/2023 at 22:37, Kev Wood said:

I enjoyed it very much- it could have been awful but it sounded great. No big surprises and all well-worn selections but it worked. The best Radio 3 I’ve listened to (probably ever!).

I was at work in early 72 and diddy dave hamilton played PP Arnold  on the bbc radio ?  time , they have stolen  everything,  our  football and our culture makes you wonder why  I hitch hiked to wigan sammys.. THIS NOT SOUL

[Chalky]

17 hours ago, JJMMWG DuPree said:

Some people like the songs and some like the records.  I can go along with that, but I cannot deny that there are a whole lot of people out there who care more for the rarity of their records than for the people responsible for the sound on them.  Anyone who renames the artist and title of a record is making sure that the people who still own a share in the content will not get any reward for their efforts from them.

So how does that apply to say Ady Croasdell, Richard Searling etc?  They have covered up many records?  Have you done as much as them for the artists and plenty of other Djs who have covered up records?

Edited July 22, 2023 by Chalky

[Amsterdam Russ]

JJMMWG DuPree said: 

Quote

“…there are a whole lot of people out there who care more for the rarity of their records than for the people responsible for the sound on them.”

Yup!

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Amsterdam Russ
Clarify quote attribution

[Amsterdam Russ]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

I didn't say that or are you insinuating that applies to me?

You are correct on the first point - I highlighted a selection of text quoted by you, and it came up as being directly from you. Blame the site. As for the second part, there an awful lot of people who do think exactly that, including me. 

Anyway, we've all digressed. Was the northern soul prom enjoyable? Yes, it was. It was way better than expected - a lot of people here think that. Did it dilute or harm the supposed 'scene'? No. 

Are there two main scenes - the nostalgia-facing one and the progressive one? Yes.

Are some people, on this bisected scene, regardless of which half they're on, snobbish or elitist? Yes. 

Will opposing sides ever agree on anything in this discussion? No. And if they do or don't, does it change anything?

No.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Amsterdam Russ
clarity n spelin

[Frankie Crocker]

57 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

 

Anyway, we've all digressed. Was the northern soul prom enjoyable? Yes, it was. It was way better than expected - a lot of people here think that. 

 

Well said Russ. This thread was simply about a BBC Prom concert a week ago. The thread was ultimately about the music, musicianship, performers and in the context of Northern Soul. To read more into it than that is not necessary. It was a couple of hours entertainment hugely enjoyed by those attended - it may have enlightened some of the uninitiated. I certainly had my money’s worth attending and want to commend the BBC for the innovation.

[Kenb]

1 hour ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

You are correct on the first point - I highlighted a selection of text quoted by you, and it came up as being directly from you. Blame the site. As for the second part, there an awful lot of people who do think exactly that, including me. 

Anyway, we've all digressed. Was the northern soul prom enjoyable? Yes, it was. It was way better than expected - a lot of people here think that. Did it dilute or harm the supposed 'scene'? No. 

Are there two main scenes - the nostalgia-facing one and the progressive one? Yes.

Are some people, on this bisected scene, regardless of which half they're on, snobbish or elitist? Yes. 

Will opposing sides ever agree on anything in this discussion? No. And if they do or don't, does it change anything?

No.

 

 

 

 

@Source Team

is this (above) a system glitch re: highlighting text from a post and it then being attributable to the poster that quoted it.

[Happy Feet]

I do hope everyone's aware that sometime , August 26th as been mentioned, that we're probably going to do this all over again when it gets its first Televised showing , just a thought on BBC 2, I believe,could be interesting  

Edited July 22, 2023 by Happy Feet

[Shinehead]

8 hours ago, Happy Feet said:

I do hope everyone's aware that sometime , August 26th as been mentioned, that we're probably going to do this all over again when it gets its first Televised showing , just a thought on BBC 2, I believe,could be interesting  

I enjoyed most of what I heard and no criticism from me but seen a couple videos and I will not be watching on TV looked more like a festival at Glastonbury from the Northern Soul fraternity at the front.

 

[Paul-s]

On 21/07/2023 at 21:44, Maxwell said:

Embrace that moment, enjoy it for what it was. A homage to the longest running youth culture. We where there and loads wish they could have experienced it in the flesh. I did and wouldn't trade the world for it.

I'm sorry, i just cant take this as"Northern Soul. But if this rocks peoples boat and they feel it deeply, well, they are free to do so. The Proms, like every other BBC event are aimed at a perceived customer base and it seems to have pleased the base they had imagined. 

To me, this sounds and looks embarrassingly cringey and dire...but thats just me..Everything i ran away from and escaped from via the Northern Soul scene.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Paul-s

[Jessie Pinkman]

39 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

I'm sorry, i just cant take this as"Northern Soul. But if this rocks peoples boat and they feel it deeply, well, they are free to do so. The Proms, like every other BBC event are aimed at a perceived customer base and it seems to have pleased the base they had imagined. 

To me, this sounds and looks embarrassingly cringey and dire...but thats just me..Everything i ran away from and escaped from via the Northern Soul scene.

 

Let me get this right, you're judging a 2 hour concert from 2 minutes of footage that somebody in the audience from behind the stage has recorded on their phone. I have a feeling that the Beeb will have done a better job when they broadcast it in August.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Jessie Pinkman

[Mike]

for info

'quote' feature discussion split off to a new topic
https://www.soul-source.co.uk/forums/topic/442754-forum-quote-feature-use/

 

[Stateside]

47 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

I'm sorry, i just cant take this as"Northern Soul. But if this rocks peoples boat and they feel it deeply, well, they are free to do so. The Proms, like every other BBC event are aimed at a perceived customer base and it seems to have pleased the base they had imagined. 

To me, this sounds and looks embarrassingly cringey and dire...but thats just me..Everything i ran away from and escaped from via the Northern Soul scene.

 

I would think of this more as a beat ballad rather than your archetypal Northern Soul and to my ears sounds soulful and a well produced effort. Compare that to something at the other end of the spectrum like The Mello Souls - We can make it, and for me there's a very good reason that record is rare, and that's because most of the copies probably went in the bin.

[Tony A]

Just this line from Paul S sums it up for me, It was a different scene and the one I wanted.

"Everything i ran away from and escaped from via the Northern Soul scene".   

 Edited 1 hour ago by Paul-s

[Mal C]

1 hour ago, Paul-s said:

I'm sorry, i just cant take this as"Northern Soul. But if this rocks peoples boat and they feel it deeply, well, they are free to do so. The Proms, like every other BBC event are aimed at a perceived customer base and it seems to have pleased the base they had imagined. 

To me, this sounds and looks embarrassingly cringey and dire...but thats just me..Everything i ran away from and escaped from via the Northern Soul scene.

 

Just to add a point to what I said above, is they picked the right track here, Jimmy Beaumont's original is a massive production, so 10/10.

The only point I would make is that although these musicians are of the highest quality, the very highest, they never sound quite like American musicians, I always use Amy Winehouse and her B2B Album as an example, first heard that at work, and I immediately knew they were American musicians, they were of course the Dapp Kings. I don't know what it is, but it’s always that 5% difference, to our trained ears, musicians outside of the states, never sound the same...

Shame the audience didn’t start clapping, I guess if they had known the track they would have.

cheers Paul, nice to hear see what everybody is talking about... can I ask, is that your footage?

Edited July 23, 2023 by Mal C

[Kathryn Magson]

1 hour ago, Paul-s said:

To me, this sounds and looks embarrassingly cringey and dire...but thats just me..Everything i ran away from and escaped from via the Northern Soul scene.

• My thoughts exactly Paul-s - you hit the nail on the head!

Edited July 23, 2023 by Kathryn Magson

[Paul-s]

1 hour ago, Jessie Pinkman said:

Let me get this right, you're judging a 2 hour concert from 2 minutes of footage that somebody in the audience from behind the stage has recorded on their phone. I have a feeling that the Beeb will have done a better job when they broadcast it in August.

Yes, you have got it totally right. I have been able to judge many things from a distance, including music at the back of a hall, for my entire life. Ironically, you are judging my ability to judge. No amount of TV editing can make this sound or look good.

Even your terminology 'the Beeb' makes me want to laugh. The Beeb, the Archers, Strictly Come Northern Soul Dancing, Northern Stroll music, all neatly packaged and sanitised to within an inch of its soul. It's all very cosy and lovely, and of course we can trust the good old 'Beeb' to become the caretakers/curators of Northern Soul....

35 minutes ago, Mal C said:

Just to add a point to what I said above, is they picked the right track here, Jimmy Beaumont's original is a massive production, so 10/10.

The only point I would make is that although these musicians are of the highest quality, the very highest, they never sound quite like American musicians, I always use Amy Winehouse and her B2B Album as an example, first heard that at work, and I immediately knew they were American musicians, they were of course the Dapp Kings. I don't know what it is, but it’s always that 5% difference, to our trained ears, musicians outside of the states, never sound the same...

Shame the audience didn’t start clapping, I guess if they had known the track they would have.

cheers Paul, nice to hear see what everybody is talking about... can I ask, is that your footage?

My footage.....ha! Lifted off instagram from some poor soul who attended ....

[Jessie Pinkman]

40 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

Yes, you have got it totally right. I have been able to judge many things from a distance, including music at the back of a hall, for my entire life. Ironically, you are judging my ability to judge. No amount of TV editing can make this sound or look good.

Even your terminology 'the Beeb' makes me want to laugh. The Beeb, the Archers, Strictly Come Northern Soul Dancing, Northern Stroll music, all neatly packaged and sanitised to within an inch of its soul. It's all very cosy and lovely, and of course we can trust the good old 'Beeb' to become the caretakers/curators of Northern Soul....

My footage.....ha! Lifted off instagram from some poor soul who attended ....

The Beeb could try and attract a mass audience and call it Once upon a time at The Albert Hall.

You talk about making you laugh, the jokes right there. 

[Paul-s]

59 minutes ago, Jessie Pinkman said:

The Beeb could try and attract a mass audience and call it Once upon a time at The Albert Hall.

You talk about making you laugh, the jokes right there. 

Totally bizarre and extremely tenuous comment, lacking any real comic integrity and seemingly quite puerile and petulant. The Beeb actually did attract a mass audience by calling this facade 'Northern Soul', that was enough to get masses of people, many of whom wear their soul on a tee-shirt to attend and pretend.

One just has to listen to the clip i posted to hear how farcical this 'Emperors New Clothes event was'.

I'm not sure what your 'Once Upon a Time' refers to? Is it the classic Sergio Leone Western where this phrase originated in relation to modern media, or the timeless phrase we begin stories with?

I think as Kenny Gamble sang...."The Jokes on You'.....

[Imperial C]

A cunning linguist

[Tlscapital]

4 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

Totally bizarre and extremely tenuous comment, lacking any real comic integrity and seemingly quite puerile and petulant. The Beeb actually did attract a mass audience by calling this facade 'Northern Soul', that was enough to get masses of people, many of whom wear their soul on a tee-shirt to attend and pretend.

One just has to listen to the clip i posted to hear how farcical this 'Emperors New Clothes event was'.

I'm not sure what your 'Once Upon a Time' refers to? Is it the classic Sergio Leone Western where this phrase originated in relation to modern media, or the timeless phrase we begin stories with?

I think as Kenny Gamble sang...."The Jokes on You'.....

And the Orlons Northern Soul poppy classic 'Once Upon A Time' 

[Paul-s]

Just now, Tlscapital said:

And the Orlons Northern Soul poppy classic 'Once Upon A Time' 

Yes. Any song or anything, with 'Once upon a time' is how this joke runs i think...

[Paul-s]

13 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

Totally bizarre and extremely tenuous comment, lacking any real comic integrity and seemingly quite puerile and petulant. The Beeb actually did attract a mass audience by calling this facade 'Northern Soul', that was enough to get masses of people, many of whom wear their soul on a tee-shirt to attend and pretend.

One just has to listen to the clip i posted to hear how farcical this 'Emperors New Clothes event was'.

I'm not sure what your 'Once Upon a Time' refers to? Is it the classic Sergio Leone Western where this phrase originated in relation to modern media, or the timeless phrase we begin stories with?

I think as Kenny Gamble sang...."The Jokes on You'.....

 

1 hour ago, Jessie Pinkman said:

The Beeb could try and attract a mass audience and call it Once upon a time at The Albert Hall.

You talk about making you laugh, the jokes right there. 

The jokes right here. I can see and hear it....

Edited July 23, 2023 by Paul-s

[Imperial C]

On second thoughts...

Edited July 23, 2023 by Imperial C

[Leicester Boy]

With no ashes cricket at least I've got battle of the proms. More unites us than divides us some say, I not so sure about that

[Imperial C]

. Leicester Boy you are right, more unites us

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Imperial C

[Jonko]

First i heard about this as been out the country since June so not heard about it. There are too many messages to read on here and looks like a lot of bitching going on - it looks a bit sad to me - BBC Proms doing a northern soul show, interesting concept. I'll wait and see the broadcast on 26th August - Mind you I will still be out of the country . Is it being broadcast or just being released on iplayer - can't play iplayer out side the UK. But if broadcast I can set to record it on TVM. Is the. 26th defo the date or is it an estimate>

[Shinehead]

17 minutes ago, Jonko said:

First i heard about this as been out the country since June so not heard about it. There are too many messages to read on here and looks like a lot of bitching going on - it looks a bit sad to me - BBC Proms doing a northern soul show, interesting concept. I'll wait and see the broadcast on 26th August - Mind you I will still be out of the country . Is it being broadcast or just being released on iplayer - can't play iplayer out side the UK. But if broadcast I can set to record it on TVM. Is the. 26th defo the date or is it an estimate>

Available to listen to on BBC sounds , abroad and over here on website or the app you just need to create an account.

Available for around 70 days I believe.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Shinehead

[Hooker1951]

For the past 70 years every time a music genre has been discovered, ie, Rock n  Roll, RnB, Punk , Dance, etc etc, The original sounds are the best, then along that  come the plagiarists , the people who water the original sounds down to suit their tastes sometimes, for a entirely different audience than the ones who loved the real deal and in some cases paying homage to the music that they loved or to make a quick pound and fame, Sometimes they might just want to entertain, We who know what the real thing is  are some of us LoL, get aggravated if it’s not to our standards, What I’ve learned is that not all people hear the same thing with music it’s the same tune or noise but it effects different people different ways, if it makes them happy who are we to argue, My take on all this topic  contrary to what I’ve said above is what I stated in another thread a week or so ago is Somethings are better left unsaid and Somethings are better left alone, LoL,

Big example of when it doesn’t work in 1956

Little Richard singing Tuttie Fruitte and Long tall Sally Original

Pat Boone singing Tuttie fruttie and Long tall Sally copy version

Guess which sold most copies, the problem is their is more of them than us and this will go on forever like it has done the last 70 years , perhaps we should quietly celebrate we know best without getting angry about it, 

Take Care

Mick Lyons

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Paul-s said:

 

The jokes right here. I can see and hear it....

 

divfest. Perfect example of the kind of people we went to nighters to get away from. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Chalky

[Tlscapital]

2 hours ago, Imperial C said:

Once Upon a Time someone said "You are entitled to your opinion", but little Paul thought this only applied to him and he decided to dominate the thread using other peoples footage to pour scorn on other people having a good time and enjoying themselves. Poor Paul, it would not be long till the thread closed at midnight and he would turn into a pumpkin.

They all lived happily ever after 

Not that Paul or anybody has to be defended but I'do think that these assumptions are rather odd to say the least. As these threads are open to anyone to share their opinions or points of views and should not be subject to contrariety if it differs from some, most or all even. At least I hope.

And if ones responds to many times that's still fine I believe. Posting more than others if ever (who's counting ?) is not against the site's guidelines nor a against good morality standards IMO. Even though it can seem like a lot (too much maybe ) but we still love little Paul. Don't we. Even if he can be...

As for using others footages posted publicly in the first place for all to see here I see absolutely no wrong in doing so. Sorry but it seems that you are trying anything and everything to put a 'blame' on him. Instead of replying to him and his criticism actually with some counter arguments. Peace !

[Tlscapital]

1 hour ago, Hooker1951 said:

For the past 70 years every time a music genre has been discovered, ie, Rock n  Roll, RnB, Punk , Dance, etc etc, The original sounds are the best, then along that  come the plagiarists , the people who water the original sounds down to suit their tastes sometimes, for a entirely different audience than the ones who loved the real deal and in some cases paying homage to the music that they loved or to make a quick pound and fame, Sometimes they might just want to entertain, We who know what the real thing is  are some of us LoL, get aggravated if it’s not to our standards, What I’ve learned is that not all people hear the same thing with music it’s the same tune or noise but it effects different people different ways, if it makes them happy who are we to argue, My take on all this topic  contrary to what I’ve said above is what I stated in another thread a week or so ago is Somethings are better left unsaid and Somethings are better left alone, LoL,

Big example of when it doesn’t work in 1956

Little Richard singing Tuttie Fruitte and Long tall Sally Original

Pat Boone singing Tuttie fruttie and Long tall Sally copy version

Guess which sold most copies, the problem is their is more of them than us and this will go on forever like it has done the last 70 years , perhaps we should quietly celebrate we know best without getting angry about it, 

Take Care

Mick Lyons

Digging your approach I like most you've wrote. But is Northern Soul a music genre ? I really think not. It's a 'scene'. A bit like it's Belgian "contemporary" counterpart the 'Pop-Corn'. Not a musical genre but a specific selection of various records fitting a certain 'Club' mold and focusing on Soul mainly but with loads of the most odds and sods sounds too.

'With Pop-Corn' it's certainly more complicated to apprehend to outsiders. Lke on the Northern Soul Fronts with different opinions and "controversy" on the sounds... So covering up such "underground" scenes by the medias have always been very 'touchy' matters and the celebration by any institution welcoming it in the 'Hall Of Fame' a SHAME.

Unlike the artists and even more heartedly the small time ones who finally get a broader 'public' recognition in or through the medias show a happy face as they do appreciate such consecration while any "underground" scene who's been exposed to such will face the consequence of it never to be the same anymore. A commercial sell-out brand...

[Stateside]

I have some friends in particular who have been friends for almost 40 years and since I was attending Wigan, Blackpool and the Ritz. They only  recently acknowledged my love for sixties and seventies rare soul in the past few years, since they decided they like "Northern Soul".

When we go to their house they put on a playlist from Spotify or Apple and say "here's some NS for you. On comes a record like The Snake for instance and they quickly ask, "have you got this one"? No I haven't. Why not? they ask. and the rest of the evening is spent with me trying to explain the nuances of what I like and what I don't like, and why, without pi**ing on their bonfire.

I'm pleased that they have decided they like "Northern Soul" and they are liking it for the music and the feel good factor, and I don't think they have ever been to a venue or even danced to it, to my knowledge.

They are looking forward to seeing the televised version when it comes out in August and I hope they enjoy it because they will know some of the songs and they will feel part of it and that isn't such a bad thing is it?

[Tlscapital]

Spotify Northern Soul, The Snake, The Proms OK. What's not to like ? And if they're happy with that shall I wreck their fun ? No evidently ! Sorry for being sarcastic but this is all adrift. I doubt anyone's debating the outside world's view and appreciation of the BBC Northern Soul proms show on here.

We're talking about the scene from the inside here. Of that very specific event that some on here liked, support and defend. Especially when someone's opinion doesn't "fit" or 'criticize' it for what is is and is not. As for Joe's Public appreciation on it nobody's judging what they make of it rest assure.

[Steve G]

What is this "scene" that people speak of? The last "scene" I think I experienced was now a long time ago.

These days "northern soul" seems to be a very loose rubber band embracing all sorts of events, and musical types, many of which appear to be self contained niches with their own patrons who will go to one venue but not another one up the road. People that have found "northern soul" since the 70s, have come from many different walks of life, life experiences and time periods.

The die hard all nighter travellers of the 70s and even 80s are a dwindling bunch, unsurprisingly as age catches up with people and I see more people going to local events purely because they enjoy the style of music / a bit of dancing or the social craic. 

As someone in his sixties now, who remembers when there was "a scene" to speak of and a set of rules we lived by, I'd just say those days are long gone, so enjoy what you like and live life to the full while you still can.

So to the Proms. In the past I've always seen these as nothing more than an upper class twits pastime, a chance for them to dress up, belt out "Jerusalem" and the national anthem at the top of their voices, wave flags and go home delighted at how patriotic they must be. A dystopian tory wet dream. The northern soul tribute night marks something of a break with that image and appears to be more inclusive and relevant.

When I look at countless venues playing boots, boring as fook playlists, the clothes, NS tat galore and even records like that "Champion" vocal and "Tribute", I cannot see exactly what an orchestra or a couple of hours on BBC TV is "threatening" the integrity of. Any claim to underground purity went decades ago. 

As I quite like watching musicians practice their art, I shall watch the TV version at some point. 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Steve G