The Trouble With Soul Source

[Guest Dan]

A few of us were waxing lyrical about April Stevens - Wanting You, on here recently

In the rarity debate.

ABSOLUTLEY rarity has its importance in this scene, because it is a scene built on rarity.

It doesnt mean that automatically a rare record is a good record, of course.

A great record like say river deep mountain high, is a great record, that many of our 'non scene' mates know, and maybe like.

But a great record like Mello Souls, is the very essence of Northern Soul and therefore, rightly in my opinion, has a higher standing within the scene.

It doesnt mean RDMH is any worse, it just means that Mello Souls is a Northern Soul, rather than a soul record.

There are plenty of great record cheap as chips and with equal or greater musical content, than some extremely rare tunes. But the scene wouldnt be what it is without the exclusivity of the rare tunes.

spot on mikey

rarity is massively important. give me an ultra rare brilliant tune over a common brilliant tune every day of the week, and anyone who says differently is lying or mad . of course, as you say, ultra rare shite is shite however it's dressed up.

[Guest Netspeaky]

A few of us were waxing lyrical about April Stevens - Wanting You, on here recently

In the rarity debate.

ABSOLUTLEY rarity has its importance in this scene, because it is a scene built on rarity.

It doesnt mean that automatically a rare record is a good record, of course.

A great record like say river deep mountain high, is a great record, that many of our 'non scene' mates know, and maybe like.

But a great record like Mello Souls, is the very essence of Northern Soul and therefore, rightly in my opinion, has a higher standing within the scene.

It doesnt mean RDMH is any worse, it just means that Mello Souls is a Northern Soul, rather than a soul record.

There are plenty of great record cheap as chips and with equal or greater musical content, than some extremely rare tunes. But the scene wouldnt be what it is without the exclusivity of the rare tunes.

In one then Frank Wilson should be played as it's a rare record by all accounts and is the essence of northern soul just as much as the Mello Souls, which I am releasing in the UK tomorrow, just had 100,000 copies pressed up to sell to the general public, from the local pop DJ's they all reckon it will be a massive club hit and even radio one have shown interest in making it there power play for the week, should all help to destory it being the essence of a northern soul record by the current arguement against FW. Also even the youth club classics were rare/un-discovered at one point.

[Guest in town Mikey]

In one then Frank Wilson should be played as it's a rare record by all accounts and is the essence of northern soul just as much as the Mello Souls, which I am releasing in the UK tomorrow, just had 100,000 copies pressed up to sell to the general public, from the local pop DJ's they all reckon it will be a massive club hit and even radio one have shown interest in making it there power play for the week, should all help to destory it being the essence of a northern soul record by the current arguement against FW. Also even the youth club classics were rare/un-discovered at one point.

Rightly or wrongly I dont particularly want to hear DILY again. Not in a hurry anyway.

I think it has been to its detriment, having Motown knock out lots of reissues, and KFC using it to flog a few more decaying carcasses in breadcrumbs.

It is impossible for me to say, but had there only been the three (ish) copies, and maybe 1 compilation inclusion, then there is every chance it could be in my all time top ten. But with its over exposure I have become weary of hearing it. Unblike for example - Girl Across the Street, This Gets to me, You're on top Girl. Tunes I have been listening to for decades, but havent had the overexposure.

Its similar to UK Gold showing Only Fools and Horses virtually 24/7. I used to laugh myself sick watching this. but now switch over if I am watching a station and it comes on. Familiarity in these cases have bred contempt.

Edited March 1, 2007 by in town Mikey

[BrianB]

spot on mikey

rarity is massively important. give me an ultra rare brilliant tune over a common brilliant tune every day of the week, and anyone who says differently is lying or mad . of course, as you say, ultra rare shite is shite however it's dressed up.

Hi Dan,

That answer is one of the debating points I wanted to raise! Is that from a purist point of view, from a collectors point of view, or from a bog standard Northern Soul loving fans viewpoint?

Cheers,

Brian

[Reg]

Rightly or wrongly I dont particularly want to hear DILY again. Not in a hurry anyway.

I think it has been to its detriment, having Motown knock out lots of reissues, and KFC using it to flog a few more decaying carcasses in breadcrumbs.

It is impossible for me to say, but had there only been the three (ish) copies, and maybe 1 compilation inclusion, then there is every chance it could be in my all time top ten. But with its over exposure I have become weary of hearing it.

Its similar to UK Gold showing Only Fools and Horses virtually 24/7. I used to laugh myself sick watching this. but now switch over if I am watching a station and it comes on. Familiarity in these cases have bred contempt.

That's spot on! And the reason that I don't understand why people go and listen to the same music week in week out at certain oldies nights. I find that some of the people who complain about so called purists on SS, don't even go to the bad oldies nights. They may go to across the board nights that play quite a lot of oldies but not the really poor ones that play OOTF off a CD and The Snake on replay (I live in Stockport so I know!!) The last time I heard DILY out was at Soulsville funnily enough when they had Kenny Burrell on...and to be honest it really had lost it for me. The mello souls is decent enough-what I would call an all niter record, bad production, slightly out of tune but hits the spot at 4am when you're trying to avoid a hyperactive chatterbox and the dancefloor's your only escape

[Guest Netspeaky]

Rightly or wrongly I dont particularly want to hear DILY again. Not in a hurry anyway.

I think it has been to its detriment, having Motown knock out lots of reissues, and KFC using it to flog a few more decaying carcasses in breadcrumbs.

It is impossible for me to say, but had there only been the three (ish) copies, and maybe 1 compilation inclusion, then there is every chance it could be in my all time top ten. But with its over exposure I have become weary of hearing it. Unblike for example - Girl Across the Street, This Gets to me, You're on top Girl. Tunes I have been listening to for decades, but havent had the overexposure.

Its similar to UK Gold showing Only Fools and Horses virtually 24/7. I used to laugh myself sick watching this. but now switch over if I am watching a station and it comes on. Familiarity in these cases have bred contempt.

You can't blame Motown for re-issuing FW, they are in the money business and it's popular enough to sell. I don't want to hear FW at northern nites for the reasons stated, but the arguemen

 not to play it on rarity falls down, as in it's original format, it's dog rare as we know, who can blame KB for playing his rarest record at a r

re soul night????????????????????

Edited March 1, 2007 by Netspeaky

[Guest ShaneH]

post 12 in this topic

al jolson

step forward.... Shane Higgins

i like the mello souls but there is so much better. i do think it sounds like the al jolson copy cats on those old tv comedy shows

Shane

[Simsy]

post 12 in this topic

al jolson

step forward.... Shane Higgins

Post 12 is Soulsmith.

Just searched through 98 pages to find original quote about mello's & AJ etc. Can't find it as yet - 115 pages to go.

Does sound like the sort of thing Shane would say though.

Shane..?

[Guest Dan]

Post 12 is Soulsmith.

Just searched through 98 pages to find original quote about mello's & AJ etc. Can't find it as yet - 115 pages to go.

Does sound like the sort of thing Shane would say though.

Shane..?

weird. are you following the link and, if so, do you get pete's thread entitled 'absolutely useless records which soul snobs like'?

if so, p1 post 12 as i see it is shane saying:

ascots tune mentioned above is marvellous.

mello souls doesn't do much for me. i wont say i dont like it but its all a bit 'crash, bang, wallop' for me and that vocal always reminds me of Al Jolson

Shane

[Guest Dan]

Hi Dan,

That answer is one of the debating points I wanted to raise! Is that from a purist point of view, from a collectors point of view, or from a bog standard Northern Soul loving fans viewpoint?

Cheers,

Brian

hi brian

hmm, if you put it like that it's hard to answer. it's just one of those 'facts' to me but i concede there are lots of variables.

as a collector, i'd always want rare sounds because it's nice to have things no-one else - or few people - have. if you start analysing why it's nice you'd be there all day, so i don't

but i always place (my idea of) quality over rarity and i have always had a lot more respect for djs who play lesser known cheap records than people who sit on ebay with big bank accounts and just buy the big sounds, rare or not.

it's all personal though isn't it - there are no right or wrong answers?

dan

[Guest mobbsy]

I buy what i like, don't give a monkeys what other people think. can still get brilliant records for less than £50.Prices gone crazy !!!????? Dont want to hear 100MPH records all the time. In 20 years time be a huge flood of records going cheap as we retire, end up in old peoples homes ,shortfall pensions . glad i have my tmgs, statesides,orioles etc pity anyone who have just started collecting .!!!!! As for soulsource its the top site

[Guest in town Mikey]

You can't blame Motown for re-issuing FW, they are in the money business and it's popular enough to sell. I don't want to hear FW at northern nites for the reasons stated, but the arguement not to play it on rarity falls down, as in it's original format, it's dog rare as we know, who can blame KB for playing his rarest record at a rare soul night????????????????????

Cant blame Motown at all. And hopefully FW is seeing a nice comish for the tune.

The reason i dont particularly want to hear it at a niter is because I can hear it anywhere, even in KwikSave I'd imagine.

But that doesnt mean that say River Deep...isnt great when played in an imaginitive set. Kenny Burrell played it at Cheltenham on Saturday, and it sounded superb.

But I concede one man's imaginative playing of an overplayed tune, is another mans flogging an overplayed tune.

[Simsy]

weird. are you following the link and, if so, do you get pete's thread entitled 'absolutely useless records which soul snobs like'?

if so, p1 post 12 as i see it is shane saying:

ascots tune mentioned above is marvellous.

mello souls doesn't do much for me. i wont say i dont like it but its all a bit 'crash, bang, wallop' for me and that vocal always reminds me of Al Jolson

Shane

Ah no looked at # 12 in this thread. Sorry. Yeah that was the one!

[Guest SIMONF]

IMO,FW,has the mass appeal it was a russ w spin its crossed over at the handbag soul nite(same old shit)packed the floor at wigan remeber the days when mr m's would open and main floor would empty, hundreds going in to listen to the classics when searling was playing some of the best ever rare soul discoverys.what was going on.

If richard had the mello souls in that era it would have proberly been bigger than cecil washington

[Bazza]

From a punters point of view,as long as a tune is not hammered ,im happy,if its rarely played ,Im happy,if I have never heard it before (as long as it floats my boat )Im happy......having said that there are certain hammered tunes I still like to hear out

Magestics-I love her so much,hammered to death .....but I still love to hear it out

But I am easy to please ,my main concern when Im out, is that I enjoy myself,I will always make the best of it rather than moan about it

Not being a collector, I would not know the difference between a rare tune or a rarlely played tune,makes no difference to me

Bazza

Edited March 1, 2007 by bazza

[SteveM]

Post 12 is Soulsmith.

Just searched through 98 pages to find original quote about mello's & AJ etc. Can't find it as yet - 115 pages to go.

Does sound like the sort of thing Shane would say though.

Shane..?

So it was Shane who said it was it ?

Edited March 1, 2007 by SteveM

[Guest wAvy]

As someone who doesn't actually go out much any more, and had not heard the Mello Souls, are we talking about the cover up "Hey Girl"? If so it isn't a bad record, and I'm sure it sounds better played out that as a refosoul clip, but IMHO it certainly ain't as good as the record we are also discussing, which I am sick of hearing but still is also IMHO a great "Northern Soul" record. The mello souls is only "fantastic" because it is rare & has a mystique because of it.

Paul

i also haven't actually heard the Mello Souls track but i have heard (more than enough times) the Frank Wilson tune, which i still like! i will say this tho, everytime, no matter what venue i've been to and have heard it, Frank wilson, will always fill the dancefloor, whether ppl think it's played out or not. see for yourself next time you're at an event if it gets played.

if someone could put the mello souls track on here to download - would be good, then i can hear it at least!

wAvy

[Guest rachel]

i also haven't actually heard the Mello Souls track but i have heard (more than enough times) the Frank Wilson tune, which i still like! i will say this tho, everytime, no matter what venue i've been to and have heard it, Frank wilson, will always fill the dancefloor, whether ppl think it's played out or not. see for yourself next time you're at an event if it gets played.

if someone could put the mello souls track on here to download - would be good, then i can hear it at least!

wAvy

See the previous page of this topic, the soundclip's up there.

[Guest Jamie]

That's spot on! And the reason that I don't understand why people go and listen to the same music week in week out at certain oldies nights. I find that some of the people who complain about so called purists on SS, don't even go to the bad oldies nights. They may go to across the board nights that play quite a lot of oldies but not the really poor ones that play OOTF off a CD and The Snake on replay (I live in Stockport so I know!!) The last time I heard DILY out was at Soulsville funnily enough when they had Kenny Burrell on...and to be honest it really had lost it for me. The mello souls is decent enough-what I would call an all niter record, bad production, slightly out of tune but hits the spot at 4am when you're trying to avoid a hyperactive chatterbox and the dancefloor's your only escape

You actually heard DILY and Mello Souls in the same set that night....

Think it was the last time I heard it too.

Jamie

[Wilxy]

The trouble with Soul Source is ...........you can't do without it.....irrespective of the view Now what was that question again

[Guest Netspeaky]

Ain't it funny how we all rave over some shit rare tune, saying what a great record it is to everyone who will listen and then complain when it suddenly has mass appeal, strange world of northern soul or what.

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

I love Frank Wilson and funny cause i never hear anymore and that's been for last few years so you lot all over the country must have heard it. But no one mentions playing out Chris Clarke i know same tune and different voice but it was her version played out would you all moan.

what you should remember is maybe the general public or some will know it but then they might think what else would be good like it and then catch onto Northern soul

As for other oldies i don't mind then played out if there oldies people think over played i can say i have never heard The Snake or Out on the Floor played out here in any of the 4 soul clubs in 5 years i been attending.

[Guest]

I think Frank Wilson is a great record. Maybe over exposure has taken the sheen off it down the years, but a great record all the same. I think maybe because it was and still is big with the scootering fraternity that also has detracted from it's rare soul specialness.

Bad manners, Frank popp, The Kaiser chiefs, The Specials are all firm favs on the scooter rallys! Could you make your point a little clearer please? If you dropped Bill Bush at 11:30 on a Scooter rally they would carry on dancing! Thats because life is short and the Scooterboys n girls just dance.................get drunk and have fun!

You seem to be a bit of a music snob and you seem to have a problem with Scooterists.?..............are we allowed to play Betty Turner or Hayes Cotton at our events? Can we play Alfie Davidson?........Then the Purple Hearts................Prince Buster............Happy Mondays.......etc........etc, .........Is that OK with you?

Frank Wilson is a classic tune that everyone knows and we always get up to when we are having a good night...........

Its not always about rare or unknown soul.........sometimes it is about having a laugh and a good night out!

Sorry for owning and riding a Lambretta....................this means I dont have a clue about rare 45s and must be some sort of retard!

Stick with your Audi!

Edited March 2, 2007 by mossy

[Guest in town Mikey]

Ain't it funny how we all rave over some shit rare tune, saying what a great record it is to everyone who will listen and then complain when it suddenly has mass appeal, strange world of northern soul or what.

I thought that was the WHOLE point. Thats why people hung towels over cameras at allnighters.

Once it gets mass appeal, its moved on from.

When I first started going to soul nights and alldayers, Tainted Love would regularly be heard. As soon as Simple minds or whatever their name was did the cover of it, it was dropped. i've probably heard a handful of times since.

If Northern Soul HAD courted mass appeal, I would wager it wouldnr be anything like as strong as it is today.

[Guest Andy BB]

You seem to be a bit of a music snob and you seem to have a problem with Scooterists.?..............Frank Wilson is a classic tune that everyone knows and we always get up to when we are having a good night...........

Sorry for owning and riding a Lambretta....................this means I dont have a clue about rare 45s and must be some sort of retard!

Stick with your Audi!

Don't get your grass skirt in a twist Mossy. Simsy wasn't stating that as a personal view, he was making the valid point that Scooterists in general tend to know the big big oldies. 'Scooterist type stuff' is an oft used term for describing certain tunes - The Showmen for example. He's into Lambrettas himself.

Besides, it's not riding the Lambretta that counts for anything, it's what you wear while you're riding it.

[Guest Dr Pickles]

Don't get your grass skirt in a twist Mossy. Simsy wasn't stating that as a personal view, he was making the valid point that Scooterists in general tend to know the big big oldies. 'Scooterist type stuff' is an oft used term for describing certain tunes - The Showmen for example. He's into Lambrettas himself.

Besides, it's not riding the Lambretta that counts for anything, it's what you wear while you're riding it.

Could not agree more.

Simpson helmet and full leathers.

That TS1 Italian shopping bike can get up to quite a lick.

Doc

[Guest Simon]

When I first started going to soul nights and alldayers, Tainted Love would regularly be heard. As soon as Simple minds or whatever their name was did the cover of it, it was dropped. i've probably heard a handful of times since.

Get with the picture grandad, it was Soft Cell!

Simon

[Guest Simon]

Bad manners, Frank popp, The Kaiser chiefs, The Specials are all firm favs on the scooter rallys! Could you make your point a little clearer please? If you dropped Bill Bush at 11:30 on a Scooter rally they would carry on dancing! Thats because life is short and the Scooterboys n girls just dance.................get drunk and have fun!

You seem to be a bit of a music snob and you seem to have a problem with Scooterists.?..............are we allowed to play Betty Turner or Hayes Cotton at our events? Can we play Alfie Davidson?........Then the Purple Hearts................Prince Buster............Happy Mondays.......etc........etc, .........Is that OK with you?

Frank Wilson is a classic tune that everyone knows and we always get up to when we are having a good night...........

Its not always about rare or unknown soul.........sometimes it is about having a laugh and a good night out!

Sorry for owning and riding a Lambretta....................this means I dont have a clue about rare 45s and must be some sort of retard!

Stick with your Audi!

The above sounds like my worst nightmare, i'm particularly worried about the getting drunk & having fun bit, drink should be consumed at a sensible level & the music is far too serious for any fun to be involved.

Simon

[Guest wAvy]

See the previous page of this topic, the soundclip's up there.

ahh yea, thx Rachel, i just read a lil bit at the beginning and then jumped right to the end of the thread (all a rich tapestry) and posted so missed your post!

wAvy

[Guest in town Mikey]

Get with the picture grandad, it was Soft Cell!

Simon

Of course. Dont know where I got Simple Minds from (steady!!)

[Guest NASHEE]

Know what you mean - I got a neutral because the record I sold hadn't got a centre. It was a US import.

I sold a classical EP for my sister...A guy from Singapore got it for 60p, I accidentally undercharged him on the postage, so he actually got it for nowt, and he left me a negative because there was a 'slight' crease on the right hand corner of the picture cover...what a t*&t

[Guest recordman]

Frank Wilson is better than the Mellow Souls, imagine if you'd never heard either of them before and play them one after the other

Well said that man .. Come on Mello Souls is a good record However, It is not and never will be in the same league as Frank Wilson Do I Love You

Which to me & thousands more is and will always be one of the greatest northern soul records of all time Ask yourself why has the record been booted , pressed repressed BECAUSE ITS POPULAR

Certainly on a head count of dancers at any venue you go to or will go to in the future you know there is only one winner end of