The Trouble With Soul Source

[Guest]

Four Tops actually

Supremes Baz "YOU KEEP ME HANGING ON"

[Guest Byrney]

Intro sounds like donni burdick's candle....not for me

Bazza

ah....but its cut off 10 seonds before the best bit. Listen to the full tune (under the guise of Mr Dobsons c/u Del Larks)

https://www.soulclub.org/stream/The_Del_Lar...You_&_I.ram

[Guest Rowly]

Supremes Baz "YOU KEEP ME HANGING ON"

Doesn't it!

[macca]

I love the mello souls, I think it's a wonderfully atmospheric tune, a great 'northern' record. but the vocals & arrangement, to me, are reminiscent of many psyche/garage/freakbeat sounds I've heard on my visits to weekenders over here. in fact I'm sure it'd go down a bomb on those 'pistas blancas' or 'white dancefloors'.

on FW, it's strange but in 1978, the record didn't do anything for me, it was only in the late 80's & early 90's, usually beered up, that it began to tickle my fancy. that must say something about me or it, I guess...

M

[Guest nubes]

I dont fricking believe this!!! the beauty of Northern soul...the title of this record has eluded me for years..I had heard it out and about...danced to it...strained my ears to hear who had sang it..I absolutely adore it...as much as i loved FW at the time...this, IMO is one of those 'plodding records' which no matter at what point it is played,will always sound great..Delxx

[Guest Trevski]

As someone who doesn't actually go out much any more, and had not heard the Mello Souls, are we talking about the cover up "Hey Girl"? If so it isn't a bad record, and I'm sure it sounds better played out that as a refosoul clip, but IMHO it certainly ain't as good as the record we are also discussing, which I am sick of hearing but still is also IMHO a great "Northern Soul" record. The mello souls is only "fantastic" because it is rare & has a mystique because of it.

Paul

Isn't that the point about Frank Wilson? If it were as common as a £20 cheapie from the start, no-one would give it the time of day, just another Motown also-ran, IMHO

[Guest NASHEE]

ah....but its cut off 10 seonds before the best bit. Listen to the full tune (under the guise of Mr Dobsons c/u Del Larks)

https://www.soulclub.org/stream/The_Del_Lar...You_&_I.ram

STUNNING TOON !!!!!

[macca]

anybody got a label scan? daft question I guess...

[Guest]

Frank Wilson's Is A Champ For Sure But It Somehow Lacks The Elusive Charm Of Say "Uncle John's Swinging' Farm" By King Solomon on Don-J. Now There's A Rare Waxing That Just Tickles The Toes And Relaxes The Back Out There On The Floor. to Blatant?

Edited February 28, 2007 by Mangomn2003

[Guest bleusuperb]

As a Northern record, Frank Wilson is a hundred times better than the Mellow Soul, imagine if you'd never heard either of them before and play them one after the other

Have to agree, can't understand why arguments being put forward about being overplayed, fashionable, popular at mod do's have any relevance.

It's simply two records, listen to each one, forget the politics and bullshit, and make a choice, Then choose F.W

[Guest rasfoz]

its gonna be mellow souls all day long for me dont dislike frank wilson but the formentioned sound is a corker

[paultp]

Mello Souls

1011 refosoul

Is it just me or does the vocal sound like Roland Gift? (Fine Young Cannibals)?

I've never heard this before but I'm sure it would sound good in a venue.

It does sound a bit as if it has been mixed though Maybe I'll have another listen.

[Guest Glawsters Best]

mellow souls for me

[Russ Vickers]

Some good points, but and it is a big but, I don't think anyone dislikes a record because it is popular rather they go off a record because it gets over exposed. Frank Wilson is over exposed the Mello Souls isn't. This brings the point about boots into sharp relief. I dare say if there were as many different issues, legitimate or otherwise, of the Mellow Souls as there is of Frank Wilson many of us would be tired of that too. It doesn't stop being a great record we just get tired of hearing it so often.

There aren't any soul records I'd rather not own than own so I'll have any you or anyone else is giving away.

Totally agree.

Russ

[Jaco]

I think they are both tremendous tracks, for different musical reasons. To my thinking FW was all about impact the first time it was played at Wigan - the buzz about the record at the time was unbelievable and that was sustained for a good period. Wigan and the scene needed it at the time and it certainly did the job.

I don't know what impact Mello Souls had when that first surfaced as I was long gone from the scene by that time, though I can imagine it would have been something special hearing it for the first time.

[Supercorsa]

Dont think its anything to do with being a purist, i would agree that along with many other Soul records Frank Wilson is a great record...problem is because of its popularity and price etc. it has attracted media attention adverts etc. and has now crossed over to the mainstream....i went to see the Velvelettes at Bedford end of last year, during the evening the djs played it no less than three bloody! times along side many other pop style (Baby Love) Motown records...dont get me wrong i expected to hear this kind of music i went purely to see the Velvelettes...but if ever a Northern record has crossed over then surely this one has....hence it losing credibility some what, with the scene...which is a shame

What about when 18 months ago Mick Smith played Ain't No Mountain by Marvin & Tammi at the 100 Club 25th anniversary? The dance floor went mad for it, then price shot up due to demand and everyone seemed to be playing it. If it had been anyone else playing it out at any other venue, they'd more than likely had been slated for it. So why does it seem acceptable for some DJ's to play these tunes and not others?

I personally don't have a problem if a record has crossed over into the mainstream, if I like it I buy it (depending on cost of course). Prime example of tune that fits that bill, or vice versa depends on how you look at it, is David Ruffins, Walk Away From Love.

Edited March 1, 2007 by Supercorsa

[Simsy]

Mello souls is a very good track but i wish someone would turn that fire alarm off in the background.

I wanna come down the escalator at Finsbury Park tube and hear someone play that sax break, be awesome. But I don't know any soulful buskers, so it's all in a bit of a pigs eye.

[Guest Bearsy]

I wanna come down the escalator at Finsbury Park tube and hear someone play that sax break, be awesome. But I don't know any soulful buskers, so it's all in a bit of a pigs eye.

the week your having at the moment Simsy you can always keep believing

[Guest Matt Male]

What about when 18 months ago Mick Smith played Ain't No Mountain by Marvin & Tammi at the 100 Club 25th anniversary? The dance floor went made for it, then price shot up due to demand and everyone seemed to be playing it. If it had been anyone else playing it out at any other venue, they'd more than likely had been slated for it. So why does it seem acceptable for some DJ's to play these tunes and not others?

A great record is always a great record it shouldn't matter who plays it, but there will always be people out there who will only dance if it's played by their favourite DJ and moan if it's played by anyone else. Mark Freeman played 'Aint No Mountain High Enough' at the Marrs Bar before the 100 club anniversary and it also packed the floor. Great tune.

I like the Mello Souls, but there are thousands of cheapie sounds out there which are better IMO (my boxes are full of em.. ). I wonder how popular it would be if it was £20 and everyone had a copy?

Edited February 28, 2007 by Matt Male

[Simsy]

the week your having at the moment Simsy you can always keep believing

Yeah. Still we're not West Ham though eh? Roll on Champs League final. Again.

[Guest]

What about when 18 months ago Mick Smith played Ain't No Mountain by Marvin & Tammi at the 100 Club 25th anniversary? The dance floor went made for it, then price shot up due to demand and everyone seemed to be playing it. If it had been anyone else playing it out at any other venue, they'd more than likely had been slated for it. So why does it seem acceptable for some DJ's to play these tunes and not others?

I personally don't have a problem if a record has crossed over into the mainstream, if I like it I buy it (depending on cost of course). Prime example of tune that fits that bill, or vice versa depends on how you look at it, is David Ruffins, Walk Away From Love.

Yep good point!....could be the "King with no clothes syndrome" although both tracks are very soulful tunes , just prooves that it can work both ways i suppose, i would'nt personally question the integrity of any of these records but do think a record does loose a bit of respect when it was born on the Northern Soul scene then becomes played by the masses...probably cos it gos against the undergroundness (if thats a word) ethic of the whole thing....although as you say seems ok to pinch one from the main stream.....funny ole business aint it

[Guest Bearsy]

A great record is always a great record it shouldn't matter who plays it, but there will always be people out there who will only dance if it's played by their favourite DJ and moan if it's played by anyone else. Mark Freeman played 'Aint No Mountain High Enough' at the Marrs Bar before the 100 club anniversary and it also packed the floor. Great tune.

I like the Mello Souls, but there are thousands of cheapie sounds out there which are better IMO (my boxes are full of em.. ). I wonder how popular it would be if it was £20 and everyone had a copy?

I think we are back on the thread again I think thats the point that was trying to be made in this thread. even if every soulie agreed on one tune to be the mutts nutts and never heard for its rareity and then a flood of them came on the scene and eveywhere you went it was played and over 20 plus years non stop and then went mainstream, would it be looked upon like "Do I love You" has been by some. i think so

[Guest Bearsy]

Yeah. Still we're not West Ham though eh? Roll on Champs League final. Again.

Dont think it will be long before them youngsters are really challenging again on Arsenals behalf, the futre is bright the future looks good for the gooners, you can always have Gills as your feeder club

[Simsy]

Dont think it will be long before them youngsters are really challenging again on Arsenals behalf, the futre is bright the future looks good for the gooners, you can always have Gills as your feeder club

I really wouldn't know about all this off topicness. But I'll say this .. Arsenal are the Mello Souls - sophisticated jetsetter in the camel hair coat .. West Ham are the Frank Wilson's - Boomtown Rats ..

[Guest Matt Male]

I like the Mello Souls, but there are thousands of cheapie sounds out there which are better IMO (my boxes are full of em.. ). I wonder how popular it would be if it was £20 and everyone had a copy?

Actually i'll rephrase that. I reckon it will always be popular. But how many times would it be played out if it was £20 and everyone had a copy? I don't like this idea of must travel to hear rare stuff as opposed to good stuff. Ok if it's good and rare, but that's not always the case.

[SteveM]

I've always thought that Frank Wilson was overated, and while I like the Mello Souls, imo, its not the be all and end all, but which music critic said its Al Johnson-ish ? Have any of you listened to AJ, a 20/30's crooner. He bears no relation to the vocal on the Mello Souls. ( Tell me a sound a like song of his) It may sound white in places, a 60's vocal deffo, but Al Jolson ? Some people believe any review they hear. FFS

[Guest Bogue]

I've always thought that Frank Wilson was overated, and while I like the Mello Souls, imo, its not the be all and end all, but which music critic said its Al Johnson-ish ? Have any of you listened to AJ, a 20/30's crooner. He bears no relation to the vocal on the Mello Souls. ( Tell me a sound a like song of his) It may sound white in places, a 60's vocal deffo, but Al Jolson ? Some people believe any review they hear. FFS

OHHH M'y how i love you, how i love you, my dear old M'y

I'll get me coat

[SteveM]

OHHH M'y how i love you, how i love you, my dear old M'y

I'll get me coat

But thats the point. Some F****** know all ( ) makes a statement like that, and its written in stone. Perhaps they meant Al Johnson ? But then again, maybe they didn't

[Guest mel brat]

Im not really sure Rowly but its going off topic quick like every other thread on Soul Source does

Did you watch the telly tonight or go out? I stayed in...

[Guest Bogue]

But thats the point. Some F****** know all ( ) makes a statement like that, and its written in stone. Perhaps they meant Al Johnson ? But then again, maybe they didn't

I know, i remember someone on here saying that thier other half thought that 'The Gospel Classics' sounded like the theme tune to Steptoe & Son, i can't think of anything else when i listen to it now

[Guest Bogue]

Did you watch the telly tonight or go out? I stayed in...

Sorry Mel.

Iv'e said my piece on the subject too many times anyhow

[Guest mel brat]

Yep good point!....could be the "King with no clothes syndrome" although both tracks are very soulful tunes , just prooves that it can work both ways i suppose, i would'nt personally question the integrity of any of these records but do think a record does loose a bit of respect when it was born on the Northern Soul scene then becomes played by the masses...probably cos it gos against the undergroundness (if thats a word) ethic of the whole thing....although as you say seems ok to pinch one from the main stream.....funny ole business aint it

The fact that so many people apparently didn't ALREADY OWN the classic "Aint No Mountain High Enough" after all this time speaks volumes for the average punter on the current Northern Scene I reckon...

Edited March 1, 2007 by mel brat

[SteveM]

I know, i remember someone on here saying that thier other half thought that 'The Gospel Classics' sounded like the theme tune to Steptoe & Son, i can't think of anything else when i listen to it now

I'm off for the night Bogue. When you cant think of a funny post on the dead dog thread, you know its time for bed Where are BrianJ or Moldie when you need them

[Mark Bicknell]

Like it or lump it 'Frank Wilson' is part of Northern Soul history, that was set in stone when it sold for thousands of pounds, 'Mello Souls' is also a rare record indeed again did it not sell for thousands to the same person i think you will find?, now if a record is ultra hard to find and it turns up in quantity does it make it any less a record? it should not make a difference in terms as a good enjoyable piece of music quality is quality if it's tens of thousands of pounds or a fiver but in Northern Soul scene ethics, ethos and the it must be beyound the reach of most people is in my mind foolish, more copies simply must mean that more people can get a crack at owing some of the elusive so called big hard to find tunes, personally if i had several thousand spare pounds knocking around i'm buggered if i would spend it on a 'Frank Wilson' type records as there a dozens i would like to have for a lot less money way above that type of record on my want list. Still if you have the money and desire the tunes then each to his or her own who are we to question how and what people collect.

Northern Soul has always been rare record driven, pretty much everyone i know who's into the collecting side of the scene likes to talk, eat. live, breath the tunes, often when you hook up with people the first topic of converstaion is "what you bought?, who did you get it off? how much did it cost?, who's bought what, how much so and so paid for something on JM's auction" etc. and of course if huge sums of money change hands for records then it's human nature people are gonna talk about it, debate it etc. as it's all part of the process as is talking about less elusive less exspensive records, sharing the knowledge with people and moving it all along, now if i hear a tune that i like and it's twenty quid then fantastic bring it on or if it's a higher price tag then if i have the means then bring it on. Some are out of reach to many of us price wise and sometimes if you have the money you can't always get them anyway, so i tend to chip away at bit's and bobs but can still drop a couple of hundred quid a month even doing it this way....lol well that's what i'm prepared to admit to, Jacqui will tell you otherwise...lol

When DJ'ing it's nice to have records which very few other people have or play again this is part of the game, of course quality tunes should always be paramount whatever the ticket price, this get's lost sometimes as we know rare does not always mean good and also just beacuse a record is cheap it should have no refelection of it's quality, if all the ingredients are there in a record, beat, tempo, style, voice, performance etc. then of course there are hundreds of records that can hold their own with the Frank Wilson's and Mello Soul's of this wonderful scene.

Regards - Mark Bicknell, very late but i'm on a day off....lol

[BrianB]

Some excellent debate here. Thanks.

However, please don't lose sight of the thread. Its not a Mello Souls/Frank Wilson competition. Its about our approach to rare/overplayed/cheap/popular records, and how we as a soul community view them.

Simon, sorry if it came over wrong mate, but I couldn't find Roccia's comments and your response, so I had to go off a memory that was a bit hazy after heavy weekend.

ATB

Brian

[Guest Simon]

Simon, sorry if it came over wrong mate, but I couldn't find Roccia's comments and your response, so I had to go off a memory that was a bit hazy after heavy weekend.

ATB

Brian

No worries Brian, you've got SS buzzing on this subject, good thread mate!

Simon

[Guest Rowly]

I really wouldn't know about all this off topicness. But I'll say this .. Arsenal are the Mello Souls - sophisticated jetsetter in the camel hair coat .. West Ham are the Frank Wilson's - Boomtown Rats ..

Carry on chaps - i ain't bitin'!

[Trev Thomas]

So would I, but nobody in their right mind could say it's a better record

ive just had a psycholigical assesment at work & passed with flying colours, so pete, i am in my right mind & ive got a certificate to prove it, but, hey guess what ??.........i prefer the mello souls

[Simsy]

which music critic said its Al Johnson-ish ? Have any of you listened to AJ, a 20/30's crooner. He bears no relation to the vocal on the Mello Souls. ( Tell me a sound a like song of his) It may sound white in places, a 60's vocal deffo, but Al Jolson ? Some people believe any review they hear. FFS

Would take a hell of a lot of digging to find that critic. Was in (I think) look at your box may 15/16 months ago. He slagged it and mention the vocal being akin to Al Jolson. Pains me to agree, but I know what he means, only in a couple of bits does the vocal sound that way. Al is on youtube singing Mammy if you want a comparison.

But thats the point. Some F****** know all ( ) makes a statement like that, and its written in stone. Perhaps they meant Al Johnson ? But then again, maybe they didn't

Wouldn't say written in stone, he was a lone voice stating that. Deffo Jolson. Will see if I can find offending post.

[Pete S]

ive just had a psycholigical assesment at work & passed with flying colours, so pete, i am in my right mind & ive got a certificate to prove it, but, hey guess what ??.........i prefer the mello souls

Whoopee-f*cking-doo

[Trev Thomas]

Whoopee-f*cking-doo

..........record arrived this morning, cheers

[Pete S]

..........record arrived this morning, cheers

Bad mood today - some c*nt left me a negative on ebay, says I graded the record incorrectly, which is complete rubbish - just planning revenge as I write this. First neg I've ever had over a grading out of 6000 feedbacks

[Trev Thomas]

Bad mood today - some c*nt left me a negative on ebay, says I graded the record incorrectly, which is complete rubbish - just planning revenge as I write this. First neg I've ever had over a grading out of 6000 feedbacks

sorry to hear that mate....... ive had a few things off you over the years & they've always been in better condition than you've described,

but thats ebay for you,

[Pete S]

sorry to hear that mate....... ive had a few things off you over the years & they've always been in better condition than you've described,

but thats ebay for you,

But if the person would have emailed me and said they weren't happy, I'd have given them a full refund or if they wanted to keep the record, I'd have knocked some off, why not contact me first?

[Makemvinyl]

Like it or lump it 'Frank Wilson' is part of Northern Soul history, that was set in stone when it sold for thousands of pounds, 'Mello Souls' is also a rare record indeed again did it not sell for thousands to the same person i think you will find?, now if a record is ultra hard to find and it turns up in quantity does it make it any less a record? it should not make a difference in terms as a good enjoyable piece of music quality is quality if it's tens of thousands of pounds or a fiver but in Northern Soul scene ethics, ethos and the it must be beyound the reach of most people is in my mind foolish, more copies simply must mean that more people can get a crack at owing some of the elusive so called big hard to find tunes, personally if i had several thousand spare pounds knocking around i'm buggered if i would spend it on a 'Frank Wilson' type records as there a dozens i would like to have for a lot less money way above that type of record on my want list. Still if you have the money and desire the tunes then each to his or her own who are we to question how and what people collect.

Northern Soul has always been rare record driven, pretty much everyone i know who's into the collecting side of the scene likes to talk, eat. live, breath the tunes, often when you hook up with people the first topic of converstaion is "what you bought?, who did you get it off? how much did it cost?, who's bought what, how much so and so paid for something on JM's auction" etc. and of course if huge sums of money change hands for records then it's human nature people are gonna talk about it, debate it etc. as it's all part of the process as is talking about less elusive less exspensive records, sharing the knowledge with people and moving it all along, now if i hear a tune that i like and it's twenty quid then fantastic bring it on or if it's a higher price tag then if i have the means then bring it on. Some are out of reach to many of us price wise and sometimes if you have the money you can't always get them anyway, so i tend to chip away at bit's and bobs but can still drop a couple of hundred quid a month even doing it this way....lol well that's what i'm prepared to admit to, Jacqui will tell you otherwise...lol

When DJ'ing it's nice to have records which very few other people have or play again this is part of the game, of course quality tunes should always be paramount whatever the ticket price, this get's lost sometimes as we know rare does not always mean good and also just beacuse a record is cheap it should have no refelection of it's quality, if all the ingredients are there in a record, beat, tempo, style, voice, performance etc. then of course there are hundreds of records that can hold their own with the Frank Wilson's and Mello Soul's of this wonderful scene.

Regards - Mark Bicknell, very late but i'm on a day off....lol

ditto

[Guest]

But if the person would have emailed me and said they weren't happy, I'd have given them a full refund or if they wanted to keep the record, I'd have knocked some off, why not contact me first?

Because this is eBay you're talking about and so far they have failed to make sure that people pass a 'muppet' test before being allowed to join.

I once got a neg because a CD i sold had arrived with a small hairline crack in the jewel case!!

Edited March 1, 2007 by Guest

[Pete S]

Because this is eBay you're talking about and so far they have failed to make sure that people pass a 'muppet' test before being allowed to join.

I once got a neg because a CD i sold had arrived with a small hairline crack in the jewel case!!

Know what you mean - I got a neutral because the record I sold hadn't got a centre. It was a US import.

[Guest Dan]

Would take a hell of a lot of digging to find that critic.

post 12 in this topic

al jolson

step forward.... Shane Higgins

[Guest Netspeaky]

If you really put your brian in gear, most of the youth club classics if they were being discovered now would knock the spots of most if not all of the latest 60's discoveries over the last 20 odd years. I suggest you dig out some of those £5 records which have been re-issued, booted etc over the years and actually listen to them, then you just may understand what northern soul is and were it came from. most never get played so the agruement of overplayed doesn't come into it, it's just that they ain't rare, simple, quality and rarity rerely go hand in hand, and although owning rare records, playing them side by side against some of the 30 year old classics I know they don't stand up against them, most of the time. With regards to FW it's a so so Motown track which the general public have taken to like Ghost in My House, Just A Rumour and others, and if it helps keep the music alive isn't it a good thing.

[Guest in town Mikey]

If you really put your brian in gear, most of the youth club classics if they were being discovered now would knock the spots of most if not all of the latest 60's discoveries over the last 20 odd years. I suggest you dig out some of those £5 records which have been re-issued, booted etc over the years and actually listen to them, then you just may understand what northern soul is and were it came from. most never get played so the agruement of overplayed doesn't come into it, it's just that they ain't rare, simple, quality and rarity rerely go hand in hand, and although owning rare records, playing them side by side against some of the 30 year old classics I know they don't stand up against them, most of the time. With regards to FW it's a so so Motown track which the general public have taken to like Ghost in My House, Just A Rumour and others, and if it helps keep the music alive isn't it a good thing.

A few of us were waxing lyrical about April Stevens - Wanting You, on here recently

In the rarity debate.

ABSOLUTLEY rarity has its importance in this scene, because it is a scene built on rarity.

It doesnt mean that automatically a rare record is a good record, of course.

A great record like say river deep mountain high, is a great record, that many of our 'non scene' mates know, and maybe like.

But a great record like Mello Souls, is the very essence of Northern Soul and therefore, rightly in my opinion, has a higher standing within the scene.

It doesnt mean RDMH is any worse, it just means that Mello Souls is a Northern Soul, rather than a soul record.

There are plenty of great record cheap as chips and with equal or greater musical content, than some extremely rare tunes. But the scene wouldnt be what it is without the exclusivity of the rare tunes.