The soul scene

[Stephen Houghton]

Hi I'm just enquiring about how ss members still feel about the northern scene from venues etc. I speak from 40 odd yrs in the scene and the changes have been enormous such as not so many nighters but more club/pub doos.this is not a complaint just a observation, a few friends we know us included have more soul nights at home where we play our tunes and talk about yesterday's.we live in the Staffordshire area and we used to go to venues nearly every weekend but have scaled it back now due to when we find a venue that suites us it generally closes at some point .some of the venues haven't felt friendly or welcoming this is what us and our friends have felt.i know this is still a absolute fantastic genre to be in and hope it plays on forever, any thoughts out there ,and has anybody seen changes that have improved or not this music scene .

[Kathryn Magson]

I agree Stephen - I think things have changed since the lockdown ended - as you say the atmosphere at some events seems to be different. People don't seem to be going out quite so often as they used to - I know of so many events that are really struggling with low numbers now.  Could that be because there just isn't as much money around at the mo - or maybe we're all getting a bit too long in the tooth to be going out every weekend & happy to stay in with a few mates round for a drink & a few tunes?

Having said that - I know of other events that are absolutely thriving!

[Stephen Houghton]

Thanks kathryn, I like your comments because it seems to echo a lot of the scene how it is now ,but at least it's stood the test of time and I hope as others do its keeps rolling along ,now time to buy some tunes  

[Rhino]

Think these soul nights seems to be run by people who all want to be djs these days and are very soulless some of them. Paying silly money for over priced oldies and all casino classics the majority. Nothing against oldies or people wanting to dj what I do mind is they can't put the records together to get a flow to there sets and more about price tags and look what I've got. Only a few genuine venues that play to the dancefloor and keeping it busy. You only have to look at the events page to see how many venues there is these days it's unreal in my honest opinion.

[Stephen Houghton]

Nothing like honesty ,and I totally agree some weekenders I've been to give the impression that as with your local pub you might be sitting in somebody's place that has sat there for a zillion years and they make you feel sod it I'm off .to many venues and not enough punters overkill ,but the drunks and like seem to like it ,that's what I hear from friends up and down the country.but when you go to a class event it makes up for it but we never have a crap night at home just good tunes and mates no eyebrow frown looks and piss heads arguing drinks all over the so called newly sanded refurbished floor like the one at King power they swapped a perfectly excellent wooden floor for industrial lino,crap and closed after 5yrs became as fitzy said some racist comment .After all that glad I'm staying in and saving my hotel money phew

[Chalky]

Too many divs and undesirables, the kinda we went to nighters to get away from.

Too many events, more Djs and promoters than punters.  No imagination, no idea most them. 

Still some good events out there, usually the smaller ones. 
 

 

[Stephen Houghton]

Good comments fella

[Richard Free]

i just haven't got out as much since lock down .I don't really enjoy soul night music policy of tried and tested oldies .I still want to hear tunes i haven't heard before and less tired sounds .I will be hitting a few weekenders over the Spring and Summer that have a diverse music policy so hope that will rekindle my enthusiasm .I still love the music and collect .

I own my own business and had to put more hours in than ever to make up for desperate financial time during the first year of covid .

i think a lot of people including me have probably  had to re evaluate their lives and prioritised family and loved ones  and spend more time with them after a desperate couple of years during the pandemic .The addiction to soul music can take up a chunk of your free time

[Twoshoes]

We've only been to an event twice since lockdown, both birthday celebrations, one was a one off purely for the birthday playing  a diverse selection of music the other piggybacking on a regular event sticking to tried and tested.     One had me thinking about getting out and about again,  the other made me realise I had not missed hearing the same old records over and over. I have missed seeing friends who I only saw at events, missed discussing the records and all that entails. We used to go to the Ashton Ukranian Club now that I do miss especially when I read the events page and see what they could be potentially playing on the night. Good to see that night regularly a lot busier than I remember pre covid and a testament to the dedication of the guys who run it, class will out eventually.

    What I hear from friends who are still attending well established local events mainly playing oldies is they are generally well attended one in particular rammed every month. Health issues would prevent me from dancing should we venture out so I'm now quite happy buying and playing from my collection at home. 

    

[Cheapsiderecords]

16 hours ago, Chalky said:

Too many divs and undesirables, the kinda we went to nighters to get away from.

Too many events, more Djs and promoters than punters.  No imagination, no idea most them. 

Still some good events out there, usually the smaller ones. 
 

 

That exactly sums up what my wife and I have found since we have been here from Canada. We have been to 6 different nights around the Gloucester/Worcester area and are amazed at the amount of people we didnt know, and the aount of people we expected to see who dont bother anymore. All venues have been reasonably well attended though. 

[Geeselad]

Whitchurch has been great, last Swinton, I enjoyed and I'm lucky to have a great, quality oldies night, Macclesfield, nearby and the superb more left field, FTMNTC just down the road. It's not like me to be positive!

[Soulmark]

We’re at the Tyneside weekender and it was bouncing last night so it looks good for the rest of the weekend we’ll done Paul Conroy for organising this event fantastic venue

Edited March 4, 2023 by Soulmark

[Stephen Houghton]

It's good to see a lot of passion still out there .there has been some excellent comments about the scene good and not so which is good.the tunes still do it for me .so let's still enjoy it 

[Tazhoughton]

I totally agree with everything i have read , when it gets near to the weekend we look on ss see whats happening,  but that is as far as it gets at the moment,  A cloud of disappointment comes over me , i should stop living in the past i was fine before 2020 , my fisrt date with my boyfriend 1977 wigan so the addiction started we are still together ,  lol cheers Mr houghton ♡

Edited March 4, 2023 by Tazhoughton

[Leicester Boy]

Like every other form of entertainment there are good venues and not so good. Personally haven't noticed a major drop off after COVID. Definitely things are changing to a more weekender based scene. But still various events for everyone. I think in this modern age pre reading up on a forthcoming event can save people a lot of reasons to be unhappy after attending. 

[Colouredman]

The biggest problem now, which affects everything from whats played, to whether a venue is busy or not, or actually any good or worth attending is the fact that as a scene we’ve basically self destructed. From having a scene which was a defined genre, with an approximate consensus on what constituted a Northern record (by and large), now we have so many scenes within one scene that it raises the question of whether ‘Northern’ is still a genre any more.

We seem unable to stop reinventing what it is, in an effort to keep coming up with ‘new’. So now when you go to a venue, you could be listening to some semi Doo Wopp record made in 1961, or an R&B record made in 62, or something made and recorded last week!

There is no reliable, identifiable consensus on what Northern is anymore. In the past if someone told me a record I ddnt know was great Northern, it probably was. Now if someone tells me something is great Northern, I find myself asking privately...”yes, but what kind of Northern?”

When I was a teenager in the 70’s I could pretty accurately tell someone that a lot of Northern was similar to Motown, or at the very least 4 beats to the bar, with a black sound, strong backbeat etc. But what would I tell em Northern is now??? 

Most people within 5 years of my age (65) grew up with Motown, it was in the charts and played everywhere. So that sound was in our heads, so sliding into Northern with a very similar sound, was easy and perhaps even inevitable. But theres generations since who dont have that Motown/60’s soul sound in their heads or historic musical experience, and so they dont necesarily have the benchmarks to assess Northern as it used to be.

My impression is that there is a community of punters who dont really know much about music; 60’s with a beat doesnt make it Northern, black with no beat doesnt make it Northern either, nor does you liking it and enjoy dancing to it. Equally having a collection and wanting to dj does not in itself equal a dj!

As a scene its probably lost its way, add to that venue overkill, and the age of a lot of us, its probably past its ‘sell by’ as a scene. But that said, the finest examples of the best Rare Soul music a person could ever hear, still exist, and will forever, regardless of their being a ‘scene’ or not.

[Geeselad]

If you were out past night and got your phone our at some point, you're part of the problem, IMHO. 

[Bbrich]

We do a soul nite say once or twice a month & 2 -3 weekenders per year, sticking to events run by people who have been around a long time. Musically they are probably on the whole as good as ever, but the atmosphere will not compare as each year people spend more time socialising & less time dancing....   old age generally means most people dance to say 10% of the records whereas would have been 90% when we/they were younger.  Personally I'd rather not see any pics/videos of events as it just emphasises that it isn't what it was when we were younger.....   At the end of the day it is all we've got and the people/friends we've made along the way make it worthwhile. 

[Geeselad]

5 hours ago, Colouredman said:

The biggest problem now, which affects everything from whats played, to whether a venue is busy or not, or actually any good or worth attending is the fact that as a scene we’ve basically self destructed. From having a scene which was a defined genre, with an approximate consensus on what constituted a Northern record (by and large), now we have so many scenes within one scene that it raises the question of whether ‘Northern’ is still a genre any more.

We seem unable to stop reinventing what it is, in an effort to keep coming up with ‘new’. So now when you go to a venue, you could be listening to some semi Doo Wopp record made in 1961, or an R&B record made in 62, or something made and recorded last week!

There is no reliable, identifiable consensus on what Northern is anymore. In the past if someone told me a record I ddnt know was great Northern, it probably was. Now if someone tells me something is great Northern, I find myself asking privately...”yes, but what kind of Northern?”

When I was a teenager in the 70’s I could pretty accurately tell someone that a lot of Northern was similar to Motown, or at the very least 4 beats to the bar, with a black sound, strong backbeat etc. But what would I tell em Northern is now??? 

Most people within 5 years of my age (65) grew up with Motown, it was in the charts and played everywhere. So that sound was in our heads, so sliding into Northern with a very similar sound, was easy and perhaps even inevitable. But theres generations since who dont have that Motown/60’s soul sound in their heads or historic musical experience, and so they dont necesarily have the benchmarks to assess Northern as it used to be.

My impression is that there is a community of punters who dont really know much about music; 60’s with a beat doesnt make it Northern, black with no beat doesnt make it Northern either, nor does you liking it and enjoy dancing to it. Equally having a collection and wanting to dj does not in itself equal a dj!

As a scene its probably lost its way, add to that venue overkill, and the age of a lot of us, its probably past its ‘sell by’ as a scene. But that said, the finest examples of the best Rare Soul music a person could ever hear, still exist, and will forever, regardless of their being a ‘scene’ or not.

I agree with a lot you've said, there's not enough open mindedness, most records are overplayed in every element of the scene. However, I've seen similar letters in blues and soul in the 70's with sentiments bemoaning 'it ain't what it used to be', the north may rise again, but only if people will put there phones away!

[Stephen Houghton]

After reading all the comments I know there is a lot of passion out there, and the comments are very varied and interesting. So thanks to all on ss 

[Lionelonthevinyl]

When you talk to folk, everyone wants to hear new tunes...go to any rare, under played do and there poorly attended. Don't get me wrong I love oldies thrown in, no one wants a whole evening not knowing a single record and some  oldies are good for a reason, there bloody good!! This is only my take on it...thank you...Rob.

P.s Lifeline was possibly the last place that did this and was amazing. And yes the 100 club has done it for ever (and wolfies but not been for a while!!) (Pure soul Nuneaton was my favourite!)

Edited March 5, 2023 by Lionelonthevinyl

[Mark4767]

I THINK THE NORTHERN SOUL SCENE ,IS ON A TOP OF A HILL AND IS GOING TO SLIDE TO THE BOTTOM OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS. THE SMALL CLUBS ARE HOLDING THE WEEKENDERS UP WHICH ARE POOR WITH DJS PLAYING THE SAME RECORD UP TO FIVE OR SIX TIMES A NIGHT,PLUS STAFF AT BRID COULDNT EVEN GET ME A CHAIR FOR MY DISABLED WIFE. IM SELLING UP WITH MY RECORDS AND THINK WHAT HAPPEND WITH TED IS A TURNING POINT FOR BIG COLLECTORS AND DJS TO THINK.BUT I STILL LOVO IT?KTF

[Soulman]

On 03/03/2023 at 08:47, Stephen Houghton said:

Hi I'm just enquiring about how ss members still feel about the northern scene from venues etc. I speak from 40 odd yrs in the scene and the changes have been enormous such as not so many nighters but more club/pub doos.this is not a complaint just a observation, a few friends we know us included have more soul nights at home where we play our tunes and talk about yesterday's.we live in the Staffordshire area and we used to go to venues nearly every weekend but have scaled it back now due to when we find a venue that suites us it generally closes at some point .some of the venues haven't felt friendly or welcoming this is what us and our friends have felt.i know this is still a absolute fantastic genre to be in and hope it plays on forever, any thoughts out there ,and has anybody seen changes that have improved or not this music scene .

This is exactly what I tried to say in a previous post. What I didn't expect was a torent of abuse from people who I had previously respected. I merely said in the post I put up that a neighbour (who is still fairly new to the scene) had gone to a local pub event and felt very alienated. She and her husband were made to feel most unwelcome, stared at and all but ushered out of the door.

I personally have not been to a local event since.

[Happy Feet]

I remember back in the early 80s , playing cards in the back room at the Carlton in Hinckley, with Woody , Tommo, Martin & a few others and someone brought up the subject of what will be still be doing in our 60s , and the answer was sitting on our arses listening to Rare Soul music between the Bingo sessions, the dance floor at the time in the other room wasn't full by any means , so sitting chatting and having a good time has been a feature for years in good company.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Happy Feet

[Amsterdam Russ]

21 minutes ago, Happy Feet said:

I remember back in the early 80s , playing cards in the back room at the Carlton in Hinckley, with Woody , Tomo, Martin & a few others and someone brought up the subject of what will be still be doing in our 60s , and the answer was sitting on our arses

You were 'sitting on your arses' playing cards at soul events in the early 80s predicting you would still be sitting on your arses in your 60s.

Wow! 

[Happy Feet]

7 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

You were 'sitting on your arses' playing cards at soul events in the early 80s predicting you would still be sitting on your arses in your 60s.

Wow! 

It was about 5 am in the morning, but the cards where a regular event at many a venue especially Yate ,I seem to remember back Stage .

[Amsterdam Russ]

35 minutes ago, Happy Feet said:

It was about 5 am in the morning, but the cards where a regular event at many a venue especially Yate ,I seem to remember back Stage .

I thought your comment very amusing because generally everything told about being at niters and such is typically about three main things:

1/ the journey to/from the event (stolen cars, robbing chemist shops,  jumping buses/trains, meeting up at service stations, organised coaches, hitching a lift, getting busted, mates who died)

2/ fighting (or avoiding fighting) with the locals when you got off the train at Wigan/wherever - or, indeed, being 'rolled' in the toilets of an event

3/ dancing non-stop/enjoying the 'gear' and 'being in the moment - but today is not like the old days'

But, you've given us another one:

4/ Scrub the above: the struggles to get there and back home again, the rhapsody of the scene and the music.  No, I was playing cards!

Brilliant! 

 

 

 

[Mal C]

Just some thoughts...

Let me start with Garage posing as Northern Soul, seems to have crept in big the last ten years, I like garage records allot, I collect them, not all of them of course, but I hear people saying this allot, and I'd have to agree, it's not Northern Soul.

The other music that's become a big part of 'now' is the new productions in a Sixties, or Northern style. I buy some of them, but my sense is that music genre has its own scene, and I think that it will on the whole appeal to more diverse and younger audience, thats not 'Northern Soul' is it?  In addition, the reissue and unreleased market has never been so good, so the 'Soul Scene' today does have allot of new streams of music feeding into it.

As to Tim's point above I think he is right, Northern Soul seems to have lost its way, if you hold the past against today, and I think that decline started after 2002/3/4. I think the internet has made it more accessible to all, a good thing, but it's definitely watered it down, add in age, and the fact that there were only so many traditional 'Northern' soul 45's out there, it is inevitable that the Northern Scene would change, so much so that for some it has become unrecognisable.

Recently I've really enjoyed allot of Colin Curtis's radio shows, especially the chats with Pep and Tim Ashibende, and there have been lots of posts and info on classic sounds, the Showstoppers thread for example on here. I hadn't thought about it much, but I think unconsciously there is a yearning from some for what traditional Northern soul was and is.  It's has captured my imagination again, and reminded me of life before Ebay and Discogs, like most on here I preferred printed sales lists, swapping tapes, calling up and making your order, and boxes at venues. And I think the prices of original 45's has in a way tainted things, there were always rare expensive records, that’s the core of it, but auction sites with common records, making silly money, aside of the argument about the market dictates! and all that, it just puts me off it.

I can’t offer any thoughts on venues, as I don't get out any more at all, although I do sometimes flutter with idea, I just wouldn't want to turn up somewhere and find the music is so diverse I could not get a handle it...or they played crap music...

Maybe Rob (Lionelonthevinyl) can explain where 'wolfies' is, not heard of that one Rob..

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Mal C

[Geeselad]

8 hours ago, Mal C said:

Just some thoughts...

Let me start with Garage posing as Northern Soul, seems to have crept in big the last ten years, I like garage records allot, I collect them, not all of them of course, but I hear people saying this allot, and I'd have to agree, it's not Northern Soul

As keb has often espoused, garage records have always been part of the northern scene, Human being being one early example but there just loads, especially at Wigan.

 

 

[Geeselad]

9 minutes ago, Geeselad said:

As keb has often espoused, garage records have always been part of the northern scene, Human being being one early example but there's just loads, especially at Wigan. I'm not a massive fan personally but variety and quality has always been the key to great sets imho. Mind you, back in the 80's there it did seem like anything deemed as white was sneered at, as not being authentic.

Part of the preoccupation with garage and obsession with 60's only, comeds from a large influx of scooter folk onto the scene, some great characters but they won't go near anything past 1972, and then only if it's got a wah wah and is 120 mph, and they call themselves progressive!

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Geeselad

[Mal C]

19 hours ago, Geeselad said:

As keb has often espoused, garage records have always been part of the northern scene, Human being being one early example but there just loads, especially at Wigan.

 

Can’t argue with that, I knew I’d get proven wrong as I wrote that out, I think there are the classics, Human Beings, Sheep etc plus loads more, but there does seem to be a steady stream of unknown stuff being offered up. As I say I collect garage, I don’t need converting, I love the stuff. It’s a hard nut to crack this one, but to say we / they/ the new unwashed don’t have that Motown sound as a base as it was to folks in the late 6ts early 7ts… that is different…

 

[Paul-s]

Wigan garage tune....

[Paul-s]

Heres' a garage b side that Karl Rhodes (RIP) successfully covered and excited dance floors to in 2004/5 and which I continued with for a while after 2007 when I finally got copy (had 3 in fact).

I remember when we talked about a cover up name and decided BOBBY SMITH-GIRL would convince people and it did .

The A side is totally different full on Garage.

Great tune!

 

 

[Mal C]

Great track that Shades record...

[Stephen Houghton]

Not a bad post eh 

[Neil Austin]

6 hours ago, Paul-s said:

Wigan garage tune....

Haven’t heard this for years , thanks for sharing

[Geeselad]

8 hours ago, Paul-s said:

Wigan garage tune....

Searling's phantom janitor CU.

[Vanda]

On 03/03/2023 at 08:47, Stephen Houghton said:

Hi I'm just enquiring about how ss members still feel about the northern scene from venues etc. I speak from 40 odd yrs in the scene and the changes have been enormous such as not so many nighters but more club/pub doos.this is not a complaint just a observation, a few friends we know us included have more soul nights at home where we play our tunes and talk about yesterday's.we live in the Staffordshire area and we used to go to venues nearly every weekend but have scaled it back now due to when we find a venue that suites us it generally closes at some point .some of the venues haven't felt friendly or welcoming this is what us and our friends have felt.i know this is still a absolute fantastic genre to be in and hope it plays on forever, any thoughts out there ,and has anybody seen changes that have improved or not this music scene .

Hi Steve, it's Vanda, there is a Soul club in Congleton, not too far away from yourself, it's FTMNTC, Follow The Music Not The Crowd, it might be right up your street music wise, they do advertise on SS. 

[Chris O]

Went to my first niter in 25 odd years earlier this year, was off my tits and danced all night to ace tunes many of which where new to me and had a fab old time!

I loved the car journey, every one buzzing, geezers id only just met doing the driving, learning their names and chattin shite whilst speeding through the night, flippin magic.

The place was half empty, a sort of scruffy little club/ private spot that did not have  a bar on the lancs/ yorks border I think cant remember where maybe skipton?

Phet and a bottle of single malt, proper VIP clubbing! Never thought Id have gear again now that Im old and dont live on a council estate LOL!

And no scary dudes playing cards in the backroom!!!

In conclusion it was better than a lot of soul nites I go to where the djs are just blaggin local wannabes and the xover trendy things Ive attended where lots of folk are just coked up and not very friendly and moan that northern is shite then play classic northern or tunes that got made big on the niter scene for the last hour!

Just for the record Ive been to some great soul nites and xover do's.

Cheers C