Berry Gordy Expanding Motown's Artist Roster -- Mid 60's

[Roburt]

In 1965 Berry Gordy decided the time was right to sign more acts to his labels.

Playing a part in this decision was his desire to get his top acts into cabaret style clubs like the Copa in New York and into venues in Vegas and on Miami Beach.

So some 'traditional' acts were signed up -- Billy Eckstine & Barbara McNair PLUS established soul acts like Gladys Knight and the Pips, the Isley Brothers, etc.

He also would use the policy to eradicate some local rival labels (plundering Golden World's acts & the like).

Looking at the time line for these artists it seems that Billy Eckstine was the first signing, his initial Motown 45 escaping in May 65. Barbara McNair's 1st 45 followed in November 65. No doubt they were signed 2 / 3 months before their 1st cuts made it onto a 45 in the shops. Tammi Terrell's 1st Motown 45 was also released in Nov 65. Berry was trying to get Gladys & the Isleys to sign from late 65. The Isleys weren't doing much via their Atlantic releases and so signed with Motown without much delay. Their 1st Motown 45 escaped in Jan 66. Gladys was fearful of becoming a '2nd line act' at Motown and so resisted Berry's advances for a few months. She eventually gave in and 45 via Motown came out in June 66. Edwin Starr was doing well with his Detroit based Ric Tic releases from summer 1965 thru 1966. These also did well overseas, especially in the UK. In fact Edwin left the US to undertake a UK tour in October 66. He left the US as a Ric Tic act and returned as a Motown (Soul) act. Other Golden World acts contracts were also bought out by Motown.

The process BG followed in signing all these new acts has never really been explained and various theories behind say his buying out the Golden World acts contracts have been floated down the years ( BG eliminating his biggest local rivals / Golden World's owners wanting out of the record biz, etc.). The reason behind the signing of the other acts is a bit more obscure. IT SEEMS HOWEVER THAT ... lots of the acts signed were on touring package bills that included Motown acts ahead of those acts being approached to sign with Motown.

Tammi Montgomery with Gladys Knight & the Pips were touring on a package with Martha & the Vandellas in March / April 65 ... not long afterwards both acts were asked to sign with Motown. No doubt Martha, her group and various Motown officials would have monitored the performances of Gladys & Tammi while involved with that tour. After being signed by Motown, both were out on similar package tours as Motown artists. In April 66, Edwin Starr was touring with the Miracles, Contours & Velvelettes. In June, Edwin was touring on a package with new Motown act Gladys Knight & Pips. Later in 66 he became a Motown act. June 66 saw Motown's Tammi T and the Contours touring in conjunction with J J Barnes & the Holidays (both GW acts). J J Barnes would also soon be a Motown act (though he never actually enjoyed any releases  back then).

BG was an  astute businessman & so, no doubt, getting intelligence on acts he was thinking of signing would seem really sensible. He could find out if group members were fighting with each other or if one member was a diva or big head. He could also get reaction to the way they were accepted by audiences and if they were likely to bring praise to Motown if signed.

Of course, I guess we'll never know the full facts behind these signings & the full SP on the mechanics behind the process.        

 

   

 

  

Edited February 6, 2023 by Roburt

[Amsterdam Russ]

Billy Eckstine - have you read Duke Fakir's book "I'll be there: my life with the Four Tops"?

I think we all know BG ambitions saw him move from record label owner to mainstream 'Hollywood-style' impresario. In fact, I think that's obvious to everyone with even the most basic understanding of his modus operandi. Your postulations about BG's ambitions to control Detroit's theoretically threatening output have been voiced before.

Again, Duke Fakir's book offers certain and possibly useful insights from those formative days, and particularly in relation to the signing of some stalwart acts and BG's overall motivation (as Duke Fakir saw it).

Now here's a question for you, tangentially but still relative to the signing-up of acts - why, in the early 60s, did Berry Gordy sign up Bunny Paul?

 

[Roburt]

As Duke Fakir saw it may well have been completely different to how BG saw it & it was BG who was making all the decisions..

[Robbk]

9 hours ago, Roburt said:

In 1965 Berry Gordy decided the time was right to sign more acts to his labels.

Playing a part in this decision was his desire to get his top acts into cabaret style clubs like the Copa in New York and into venues in Vegas and on Miami Beach.

So some 'traditional' acts were signed up -- Billy Eckstine & Barbara McNair PLUS established soul acts like Gladys Knight and the Pips, the Isley Brothers, etc.

He also would use the policy to eradicate some local rival labels (plundering Golden World's acts & the like).

Looking at the time line for these artists it seems that Billy Eckstine was the first signing, his initial Motown 45 escaping in May 65. Barbara McNair's 1st 45 followed in November 65. No doubt they were signed 2 / 3 months before their 1st cuts made it onto a 45 in the shops. Tammi Terrell's 1st Motown 45 was also released in Nov 65. Berry was trying to get Gladys & the Isleys to sign from late 65. The Isleys weren't doing much via their Atlantic releases and so signed with Motown without much delay. Their 1st Motown 45 escaped in Jan 66. Gladys was fearful of becoming a '2nd line act' at Motown and so resisted Berry's advances for a few months. She eventually gave in and 45 via Motown came out in June 66. Edwin Starr was doing well with his Detroit based Ric Tic releases from summer 1965 thru 1966. These also did well overseas, especially in the UK. In fact Edwin left the US to undertake a UK tour in October 66. He left the US as a Ric Tic act and returned as a Motown (Soul) act. Other Golden World acts contracts were also bought out by Motown.

The process BG followed in signing all these new acts has never really been explained and various theories behind say his buying out the Golden World acts contracts have been floated down the years ( BG eliminating his biggest local rivals / Golden World's owners wanting out of the record biz, etc.). The reason behind the signing of the other acts is a bit more obscure. IT SEEMS HOWEVER THAT ... lots of the acts signed were on touring package bills that included Motown acts ahead of those acts being approached to sign with Motown.

Of course, I guess we'll never know the full facts behind these signings & the full SP on the mechanics behind the process.        

Did Ed Wingate and Joanne Bratten REALLY want to get out of The Record Business in 1966???  Then why did they set up a new Ric-Tic Records, immediately, using many of their former workers and associates, and continuing to use some moonlighting Motown and former Motown musicians?  And after that, they opened a new Golden World subsidiary (Modern Times), and also leased new productions to Wand Records, and Columbia and subsidiary, Date Records (operating in the business, at least until late 1971)?  That was 5+  years after Motown's first buyout, and 3 years after the second.

All that doesn't seem to back-up the theory that they wanted to leave the record-producing business.  I think it was more that Wingate needed a lot of money quickly.  In fact, inside people have stated for many years that Wingate first approached Gordy to ask him if he wanted to buy his recording studio.  Berry even stated that, himself, and that he, himself, suggested that he would up the sale price (to a scandalous figure (I seem to remember $1,000,000) IF it would include the rest of Golden World and Ric-Tic's other assets, including its artists' contracts).  Wingate jumped on that offer, but jumped right back into the music business almost immediately, re-hiring Al Kent, and several others whose contracts had been bought out (dropped) by Motown.

[David Meikle]

Regards the scans at foot of OP, it is interesting that Palmer were sharing the same address as Revilot. I’ve got another address for Palmer up near the golf course. It is also good to see Handleman mentioned.

Regards the Golden World address of 11180 12th, it was actually 11801 in case anyone is interested in paying a visit. Wingate used this for a short period towards end  of 1963.

I took this photo of 11801 in 2001. Use “menu” to go to the 8th page which is called “11801 12th street”. If anyone is interested in the creation of the name Myto Publishing it tells you on that page.

https://soulfuldetroit.com/web07-golden world/golden world story/index.html

Thanks to Roburt for uploading these extracts.

[Owd Codger]

Tony Martin, Connie Haines, etc. 

I think there was a view that ""pop" artists had a short shelf life...3 years?

He probably wanted to move into more established music entertainment areas to cement his company's success.

[Kenb]

@David Meikle

" I’ve got another address for Palmer up near the golf course. It is also good to see Handleman mentioned".

Hi David, is that (other address) the Lyndon Ave address that Palmer shared with John Kaplan or vice versa.

[David Meikle]

That’s the one Ken. I was amazed to see the reference to Revilot’s address.

[Roburt]

10 hours ago, Robbk said:

Did Ed Wingate and Joanne Bratten REALLY want to get out of The Record Business in 1966???  

Robb, I wasn't saying that it was true, just that it is a THEORY that has been voiced. In fact, I think it was BG's own explanation for him signing the Golden World acts & then buying Golden World itself. 

I know BG had a soft spot for the Beatles & their promotional efforts for Motown material. As the Beatles also cut a version of the Isleys old hit, guess that may have led him to sign the Isleys.

Of course, BG could also be very ruthless. The Marvelettes & Contours were big acts at first but then got shunted into the sidings to allow other Motown acts to come to the fore. It's also said he told radio jocks they wouldn't get early copies of Motown's new 45's if they played Mary Wells singles after she left for 20th C Fox. The Spinners never really got a fair shake @ Motown after the early years. He signed J J Barnes & then side-lined him to ensure he didn't take away any of Marvin's fans. Kim Weston always seemed to be kept as a 2nd tier artist at Motown. Lots of Motown's musicians were kept out of the spotlight; Popcorn, Choker Campbell, Mike Terry & Hamilton Bohannon all leaving to progress their careers. 

I guess we'll never get to know the real facts.  

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Acts like Ray Charles got blacks into Miami Beach Hotel show rooms and the top Motown acts followed on in the late 60's & early 70's. Lots of other top soul acts came along too when hotel management accepted that black acts were 'good for business'. 

[Roburt]

More related bits from late 65 / 66 ... 

Isleys were signed to Motown in December 65  "This Old Heart" must already have been written & a session with HDH organised asap as the 45 was out only 5 / 6 weeks later ...    Edwin Starr's "00 Soul" was the #24 best selling R&B 45 in 65 ...   BUT Motown 45's were dominating sales in 65 & 66 ...      however Golden World were still putting great efforts into promoting their new releases in Dec 65 & "Back Street" was getting radio play action from the day it was released ...  

Edited February 10, 2023 by Roburt

[Roburt]

More bits .... Golden World started their Volkano label in autumn 65 ..... .  You can see which acts Motown were pushing at the end of 1966 from this ad (the Supremes had a similar sized ad all to themselves. You can tell which acts were deemed as 2nd tier as they only got a small namecheck bottom left (Edwin Starr had been signed but didn't have a release out yet, so he must be included in the AND OTHERS section ...  The Golden World acts signed by Motown in autumn 66 were soon 'out on the road' on Motowntown Review packages ... 

[Roburt]

The start of 68 ... Edwin Starr not even getting a mention as a Motown act, but new signing Chuck Jackson even gets a picture slot (though it seems he was only ever treated as a 2nd tier act by the company) .. + another mention for Irv Biegel and his own label (Maltese) from Dec 65 ....  

[Roburt]

A couple more Golden World related bits ...

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Roburt

[Robbk]

On 12/02/2023 at 04:11, Roburt said:

The start of 68 ... Edwin Starr not even getting a mention as a Motown act, but new signing Chuck Jackson even gets a picture slot (though it seems he was only ever treated as a 2nd tier act by the company) .. + another mention for Irv Biegel and his own label (Maltese) from Dec 65 ....  

Interesting to know that Maltese Records was owned by a Detroiter, and that he had previously worked for Motown Records.  I had thought, in the 1960s through the 1990s, that Maltese Records was a New York label, co-owned by George Kerr and a money partner from New York, and their main office was in New York, and they recorded in both New York, and some at Golden World, and that Wingate did their pressing and distribution, out of Detroit, and Kerr was their main producer and A&R man (running their day-to-day operations).  Now their set-up looks somewhat different.  I'd still like to find out what George Clinton's and Gene Redd Junior's deals with Wingate consisted of.  Maybe Gene Redd's Stephanye Records was one of those Maltese Records' subsidiaries that JoAnne Bratton mentioned?  I've read that both Maltese and Stephanye had offices inside Wingate's building in 1965-66.  I wonder if Clinton also had one?  I don't remember Clinton having a Detroit label, distributed by Golden World.   I think he just had a production deal with Don Davis' and LeBaron Taylor's Solid Hitbound Productions (Revilot and Solid Hit Records).

They all must have come from Jobete Music, New York, after Berry Gordy had the New York Office shut down, along with Biegel.  Later, with Granoff as financier and majority owner, and, perhaps, Biegel as Operations Manager,  and Kerr, chief producer. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Robbk

[David Meikle]

I wrote this twenty years ago, no doubt it’s well out of date.

Press “menu” then “new outlets”.

https://soulfuldetroit.com/web07-golden world/golden world story/index.html

[Kenb]

@David Meikle

I've read a few times ( discogs and your excellent GW post on soulful detroit) that Stephanye was Gene's daughter.

My understanding was that Gene's daughter was Pennye (Penny Ford later) AND it was Cleveland Horne's daughter who was Stephanye.

[Roburt]

4 hours ago, Robbk said:

Interesting to know that Maltese Records was owned by a Detroiter, and that he had previously worked for Motown Records.  I had thought, in the 1960s through the 1990s, that Maltese Records was a New York label, co-owned by George Kerr and a money partner from New York, and their main office was in New York, and they recorded in both New York, and some at Golden World, and that Wingate did their pressing and distribution, out of Detroit, and Kerr was their main producer and A&R man (running their day-to-day operations).  Now their set-up looks somewhat different.  I'd still like to find out what George Clinton's and Gene Redd Junior's deals with Wingate consisted of.  Maybe Gene Redd's Stephanye Records was one of those Maltese Records' subsidiaries that JoAnne Bratton mentioned?  I've read that both Maltese and Stephanye had offices inside Wingate's building in 1965-66.  I wonder if Clinton also had one?  I don't remember Clinton having a Detroit label, distributed by Golden World.   I think he just had a production deal with Don Davis' and LeBaron Taylor's Solid Hitbound Productions (Revilot and Solid Hit Records).

They all must have come from Jobete Music, New York, after Berry Gordy had the New York Office shut down, along with Biegel.  Later, with Granoff as financier and majority owner, and, perhaps, Biegel as Operations Manager,  and Kerr, chief producer. 

Robb, I don't think you were wrong about Maltese having NY connections ... 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Roburt

[Robbk]

On 17/02/2023 at 04:53, Roburt said:

Robb, I don't think you were wrong about Maltese having NY connections ... 

 

We all knew that Maltese's artists and producers came from New York.  I never heard of Irv Biegel working at Motown in Detroit.  So, he must have worked with Jobete Music's New York office.  And he and George Clinton, and Gene Redd Jr. and George Kerr and Sidney Barnes all liked the Detroit-style music they were making in New York.  So, after Berry shut down The New York office, they all decided to continue making records using The Detroit Sound.  So, they all came to Detroit and made deals with Ed Wingate, who used mainly current Motown musicians moonlighting, and most of the rest were musicians who had previously worked on Motown sessions.   And their Wingate, and later, Solid Hitbound recordings, made with Don Davis (ex Motowner) at United Sound, sounded very Motowny.  George Kerr and Sidney Barnes must have asked Biegel to start up his own label, and for them to record in Detroit.  And Clinton and Redd thought that was a good idea, too.  As I remember reading in one of the music business trade papers, Redd's Stephanye and Biegel's Maltese Records were both stated as new subsidiary labels of Golden World, and half owned by Wingate and Bratton, and that they would be distributed by Golden World (as were Don Davis' Groovesville Records (while Davis also worked for Golden World-before leaving to start Solid Hitbound Records), and Mike Hanks' MAH's Records for a while, when Hanks was cash poor).  The article didn't mention Redd or Biegel, however.  

 

[The Yank]

14 hours ago, Robbk said:

We all knew that Maltese's artists and producers came from New York.  I never heard of Irv Biegel working at Motown in Detroit.  So, he must have worked with Jobete Music's New York office.  And he and George Clinton, and Gene Redd Jr. and George Kerr and Sidney Barnes all liked the Detroit-style music they were making in New York.  So, after Berry shut down The New York office, they all decided to continue making records using The Detroit Sound.  

 

     As you can see by these 3 articles, Irv Biegel was definitely Detroit based before and during his time at Motown. The 1st article is from 1960 and the last two from 1962. This was all before Motown decided to open up their New York office in 1963- 

 

 

[Robbk]

19 hours ago, The Yank said:

     As you can see by these 3 articles, Irv Biegel was definitely Detroit based before and during his time at Motown. The 1st article is from 1960 and the last two from 1962. This was all before Motown decided to open up their New York office in 1963- 

 

 

So, George Kerr and Sid Barnes probably met Biegel in 1964, when their Serenaders came to Detroit to record, and, possibly, to sign their artist contract with Motown.  They must have approached him later, after Gordy closed down Jobete Music's New York office, and they had decided that they wanted to continue songwriting and recording in the Detroit Soul/Motown Sound style.  Biegel saw a chance to jump on the possibility of taking advantage of their songwriting and producing talents, and connections to other young talent in the business, by teaming up with Ed Wingate, who was already somewhat successful in emulating The Motown Sound (even by using Motown's current and former musicians, arrangers, and producers).

[Roburt]

I contacted Sidney Barnes & he says he can't even ever remember meeting Irv --  BUT HE DID SAY, his memory isn't good anymore. He said George is the guy to ask as he still has a great memory.

[Roburt]

A bit from the time Irv was @ Motown ..  October 65 ...

 

[Roburt]

Not BG's dealings in the US but his UK / European dealings in 1963 ...

Reading between the lines here, when CBS took over Oriole, it seems Motown product could just as easily ended up reaching us via Decca instead of EMI ...